Hello everyone, I have browsed this forum many times but this will be the first time posting, I want to say thanks for all the knowledge I have picked up on here, there really isn't a forum like this for equipment anywhere else. Now on to my debacle, I work for a mostly ag and some construction John Deere dealer, I went to the tech program and graduated 7 months ago. When i started the program i was told that I would not be on the bonus program and there would be a focus on learning the job and learning to do the job right. well by the time i had graduated we were in pretty good need for a technician and there were some management changes as well. I ended up getting hired as a full-fledged technician about 2 weeks after i had graduated, because of this my efficiency gets mixed in with all the other techs at our location. obviously being young and inexperienced i am not exactly setting the world on fire with my efficiency numbers so to speak and because of this I have been under extreme pressure from management to perform quicker. when I do work quicker I tend to have a few more mistakes happen which I think is expected from someone green in the gills. I have been battling management on an on going cycle, first they want me to work faster, then they want me to slow down and focus on learning, and then a few weeks later its work faster and so on. I am wondering if any of you have been in this situation before and what to do or what to expect? I was also wondering if anyone had any work related tips or tricks that they would be willing to share. I enjoy the work and I enjoy the people i work with but all this back and forth and pressure has made the job plain miserable and I am looking for a change. thanks to everyone for helping a young guy getting started in the trade out.
We have all been there on one level or Another. Management will always try to force you to do what fits in their need at that time. It is unfair to expect an experienced technician to have the same times as a new guy. Build a network with your coworkers share phone numbers when you get stumped on a job call them asked them what would you do in your situation, these are the findings that I have. I think you will find a lot of your coworkers will be just like us here on the forum , they will be willing to help you as long as you do what they ask, the way they ask and are careful about what you do. No one is expected to know everything about everything that's why this forum is such a great resource, most of us have a lot of experience, just not on every single thing so we rely heavily on each other to fill in the gaps. There will be the guy that doesn't wanna share any information, there will be the guy that gives you bad information, it won't take you long to figure out who they are, obviously those are not good resources but some of the older fellows and some of the brighter young guys I think will be more than willing to help you out and bring you up in this career. There just aren't enough of us out there where we can do all the work we need to share it with some of you young guys To carry on. In the meantime, don't hesitate to post , there's a lot of experienced guys here willing to help you out if you need.
Hang in there. This is the most rewarding job I've ever had and I think with time you will feel that way to. Don't be afraid to take advice and criticism. Right now you should focus on learning rather than being fast. Speed comes with experience. And rushing will cause mistakes. I have been doing this for 20years and sometimes not often I will go over the time. My boss will quiz me on it and I will simply say that I will rather be slow and get it right. Rather than going fast and fixing my mistakes and still wind up going over time. If and when managment starts pressuring you to do better and faster. Don't take it personally and just give yes sirs and no sirs and go back to work. Unless you have a understanding boss they aren't going to listen to your reasons. Hang in there, learn something and enjoy yourself. Good luck.
FWF said it right.. 1 small flaw tho.. Most/Some jobs wont allow cell phones on the shop floor.. When I was training a FNG & wouldnt cut him lose until 6 months.. I'd check, double check & stand over him until roughly 6 months.. it takes THAT long to be proficient at my job.. So they wanna throw u to the wolves after HOW LONG.?? & w/ just "book learning" & some "hands-on" in a class room setting.?? Another way to look at it is.. your a full time mechanic reaping the pay & bennies of a full time mechanic.. IF u complain to loudly, your sent back to the minors.. Part time w/ no bennies..
This is a tough question to answer without knowing all the details. If you’re taking 8 hours to do a 2 hour job that’s a problem that would make any manager want to push you to speed things up. If you’re taking 4 hours for a 2 hour job that would be acceptable and no one should bother you about it.
It's OK, all the managers I've been around do that with the journeymen wrenches as well. Just reconcile in your mind that you are working to the best of "your ability" and don't worry about their expectations. Most all of what managers want is just noise anyway.
You've gotten some good advice here. Mistakes are expensive to the shop, and the customer if it gets out of the shop. Management needs a reminder sometimes.
Just keep in mind, Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
It doesn't sound like he's in shop, sounds like field and on his own.
I was referring to calling back to the shop for "help".. to another mechanic.. I used to hate it when they would send "a new guy" out on a job w/o sending a real tech w/ him.. it was embarrassing when one of us had to go behind him & fix the problem.. It NEVER failed.. & "we" would get an EAR FULL from the customer.. It became such a norm that it wouldn't even phase us.{me} I started siding w/ the customer & would tell them not to pay the 1st bill & who to call{not the foreman} to get it taken care of..{ext.#} THEN I'd get an earful when I got back, for telling the customer not to pay the 1st bill... Lol
Got thrown into a flat rate shop right off fresh from trade school, took all the butt chewing's and tongue lashings to build speed then all the same for costing money and not making any. Took me a good four months of Learning to get decent at what I did, getting better just takes time, so if Unsure you are doing something correct enough SLOW DOWN, if has been done before and feel comfortable try moving the pace up a notch, NOT A LOT just a bump at a time. Has worked for Almost ALL of us old farts. BTW Butt chewing NEVER stops no matter how good nor smooth nor effective as that is just the bosses ways.
I went through the exact same crap, and it caused a lot of stress, self doubt, anxiety for me They back off alot when you get experience. Just hang in there. We hear about “productivity” a lot but in reality is it’s not the working on stuff that is slow it’s cleaning, ordering parts, looking up info, waiting on decisions, having to go help others, dealing with flat rate jobs that aren’t quoted to the fullest extent, etc that slows down every mechanic. It’s the nature of the beast If they don’t like my pace the worst they can do is fire me and I have a long list of places I can go make money at instead if they want to play that game.
Ok guys thanks for all the info so far. I am in the shop only, only going out to assist the field techs when they need it [I would like to be a field tech someday] I work in an agricultural store and we cover anything from lawn mowers to 620hp tractors and 1200hp forage harvesters. I do only have 7 months work experience and a 2 year schooling program prior to that. I graduated with a 3.8 gpa and feel very comfortable with the book side of things but we all know here that only gets you so far in the technician way of life. I would like to believe I have made improvements and my performance really depends on the job. I can go from 140 percent or more of book time to 85 percent book time typically. I do have the occasional but kicker like today I had to set up attachments for a lawn mower with very poor printed instructions and ran 208 percent. If I had to do it again tomorrow I feel I could beat time on it but i'm sure i will only hear about the one i was over time on. Starting June 6 which is 1 year they want me to be at 75 percent efficiency which means I need to beat time by 75 percent if I only have jobs at 100 percent which I feel for me is impossible at the moment. Anyhow thanks again for the input it's kinda nice taking with people who understand where i'm coming from
One thing a mechanic needs is thick skin.I would like to have a talk with your boss. A guy starting out needs time to become a good mechanic. He dosent need some one telling him faster ,faster. Keep your toolbox wheels oiled up just in case. My last boss told me i was the slowest guy in the shop but he also said i had less comebacks than any one that had ever worked there.
Remember too, your "service manager" has a standard and rating. His bosses want him to show 75% so that they're making money. Don't let the numbers get you all bent out of shape, its a way for the bean counters to justify their jobs and put a measure on how you guys are spending your time. Don't let them get you all off your game and mess you up. Bust tail, work hard, pay attention, and do a good job. If that isn't good enough for them at only 7 months out of school, you work for idiots and you just as well learn that now so you can be looking for your next job. The bosses always love to push, it makes them look good to the higher ups when they've boosted the "numbers". Especially in a dealership situation where everyone wants to be a boss. At 7 months out of school, you're green as grass, they know it and you know it. They hired you, and you can only do your best. If your best isn't good enough, they will let you know.
In my younger learning days, I'm still learning BTW. I would bounce shop to shop. Look for the oldest guy in the joint (who had all his fingers)and park my box by his. I would pick his brain for all it was worth. By then me n mgmt would disagree on something and it was time to move on. That's where I graduated from, old guys who got cross if you were stupid and told you why that was the wrong way or why this way is better. Dont just tell me I'm wrong, explain why. Plus I learned so much more than I can ever repay, things they dont teach. How to run a bead upside down or vertical. How to unstuck seized parts. Hillbilly shortcuts. All these are invaluable, you just have to find those willin to share.
That’s another part of it. Our primary product brand covers 30 odd families of products that we deal with directly, and in each of those families there are unique variations. And then there are the other brands we sell and service, of which there are plenty with their own product variations We are expected to be fast and be experts on everything and the multiple different systems on everything, including stuff we see once a year or once a decade, or the first one we have touched ever. My head hurts thinking about all the stuff I have to know and have yet to learn. Throw in all the factors I mentioned before and you are going to be spending plenty of time not turning a wrench and not by your choice.
There are different types of people and companies. I worked with some people like Hughdenie ( nickname ) who was a bit older happy go lucky guy. He would help anybody respectable that had an interest. That was not his job as he was a mechanic. He did a lot for people like me as well as the company while doing his own job all along. Other people are not so nice and say things like: They send people in here and expect me to train them. Then they will give them my job for less money. He was a supervisor and on another job one was a pipe welder. I was impressed by his work and just asked a question. I am a mechanic and above average welder for a mechanic, I thank. His smart mouth reply was way out of line to me. I could never take his job unless I went to welding school and had the ability and experience. He would be retired by then. I have worked for some companies with a happy go lucky attitude that cranked out a lot of work. Should have said shops. With the same company I was transferred to another shop and the atmosphere changed just like the type of people mentioned. That shop was not nearly as productive. Also worked for a few different companies over the years. My advise is to keep your current job as long as you can stand it. Sounds like you may have dealer and or factory training opertunities. That is worth a lot. If they send you off to school apply yourself. Do not go out clubbing with the guys. A lot of them I went through had a test at the end. They said there was no pass or fail. We just want to be sure we are doing a good job with our training program. The party animals usually weeded out of training programs pretty quick. I was a hot head and was fairly short. I left a company with back and forth directives but could have had a good retirement by now. Do not regret it. Strive to control yourself in all situations. Start a notebook at home and tell no one. When you get verbal directives on take the time to be educated and do the job jot that down. When you get new directives that contridict that jot them down. Always be polite and do your job to the best of your ability. Take some time and thank about some standard answers for things like you are taking to long. Well I never did exactly this before or I am just struggling with this for some reason. I may be taking longer than we like but I want it to be 100% when it leaves. If it comes back it costs you three times and I want to just do it once. What? Three times? Yes you pay me to do it once. If I rush through it and it comes back you have to pay me a second time for the same job. The time I spend doing it the second time should be making money on a third so it cost three times. I just want to do it right the first time. If you know of anyone that maybe able to help me when I am in a struggle I would appreciate it. When you get your annual appraisal if they come up with some off the wall junk and want you to sign it. Like not following company guide lines that you were verbally told not to. Just say hum. I need to thank about that. Can I get a copy of this and talk about this tomorrow. Do not let them know you have a ledger but then ask " Well Joe don't you remember when I was working on xyz job and you told me to do it this way? One that got me was being fussed at for taking the standard allotted time for a service and inspection. Why did it that this long? Well that is about normal. But that truck is brand new. It still tanks just as long to check everything. But it is brand new. Probably had about 10'000 miles on it. Should have asked him if you just want me to pencil whip it and change the oil. Ok Jot it down. Quality workmanship never goes out of style. I used to talk the books home so I would know how to do the job the next day.
7 months experience and you're worried about book times? Hell I've been in this game a decade now and I still have days I don't meet quote times. Don't stress about it. Stay safe, stay focused on the task at hand. Do it once and do it right.
After years in the corporate game, one learns to manage upward too. Doing the wrench turning is only part of a successful career. While you educate yourself, you have to educate those above you on the intricacies of your job. Your boss, unless a former wrench turner, doesn't see, the manual calls for X part to be taken off and resealed, yet the manual doesn't say which wrench or how to hold a 100 pound part in the air. Every job, the first time its done takes time to figure out. (and time to make that special tool... the bent & cut wrench, or pliers with the welded on tab, etc.) Since you're new, most of your jobs are the first time. You can only assure the boss, you'll do better the next time that job is done by educating him on what you learned. And, that leads to … don't settle for ten years of experience doing the first year ten times. Look for the new jobs as they come into the shop. They're the risky ones that'll take more time, but are valuable experience that make you valuable to the shop.
You have to learn how to do the job right before you try to do the job fast. The same when trying to take short cuts. Very few people can do both! Hopefully you have a good foreman that realizes you're new and understands it takes time to develop skills. I worked in a shop where the plant manager had a meeting on the shop floor and said we don't push you too hard because we can't afford mistakes and then showed some bolts that the welds broke when they went to bolt a large vessel on a skid. He said this is unacceptable and it was. They built oilfield equipment mostly on skids and would have to assemble everything to make it sure it goes together and then take it apart for shipping. The bolts are welded from the underside of large I beams because you can't get under the skid to hold them. The bolts barely had any weld on them and the slightest little bump knocked them off. Then they had to take a bunch of stuff off the skid so they could raise it up to reweld the bolts. An expensive screw up from someone too lazy and not taking the time to do it right. I worked in another shop and had only had my pressure ticket for about 6 month's. I was on night shift and never complained about the jobs I was given. The foreman thought it would be good experience for me to do some pipe spooling. I worked beside another guy who had 6 or 7 years experience and was obviously faster. I'd check all my root passes with a flashlight to make sure I had full penetration because they had to pass X-ray. Experienced guys will only check the odd one. I had very few repairs but was quite a bit slower. Foreman always told me as long as your x-rays pass you're good. Speed comes with experience. Well one day this other welder said he wanted to talk to me. He was questioning how much I had done that night. I was a little upset and asked if the day shift foreman had said anything and he said yes. Before the end of the shift I asked the night shift foreman about it and he said the day shift foreman never said a thing. He again asked if my x-rays passed and I said yes. He said to ignore the other welder and they were happy with my work. Fast forward a couple month's to early December and they announce they have to lay some people off temporarily while they wait for blueprints. The other welder who had been with the company at least a year before I was hired was laid off. I ended up getting a Christmas bonus! The laid off workers were called back about the 2nd week of January and were told unfortunately if you were laid off you won't be receiving a bonus! I was holding the biggest grin in you could imagine. Oh I'm sure this idiot trying to get me in trouble had a lot to do with him getting laid off. He even tried to change employee numbers with me on the time cards because my number matched his birthday. Payroll told him no!!! I found out later he was trying to get me kicked out of pipe spooling because they had hired a friend of his and he wanted him to down there. Moral of the story is do the best job you can and get along with your co-workers and especially the foreman and if they're any good they'll look out for you. Ask questions and don't be afraid to ask for help, just don't be a brown noser and try to make yourself look better by putting other people down. A good foreman will see right through these types.
Sick and tired how EVERYTHING depends on what some "book" says. Who wrote the ?!#king book? The engineers that built the machine. I'm only 40, and for the first 30 years of my life, we fixed everything ourselves. The last 10, with the technical nightmare most equipment has become, coupled with the EPA mandates on exhaust after treatment, it is almost impossible to diagnose problems much beyond a dead battery or plugged filter. Plus, with shop rates well over a hundred, and on the rise, the pressure on techs is HIGH. Add all this to the fact that most of the wrenches that had to learn how to diagnose without computers are aging out, and the new crop has to rely almost exclusively on computers, you have a recipe for failure. Oh, and last but not least, a good percentage of new techs are people that never changed oil in their car growing up, they were sold a bill of goods by the job fair people that promised them $100k a year because TECHNOLOGY is the FUTURE of service work. And before anyone wants to disagree with this last point, I went to school for diesel tech in the 90's, and had to work with these morons. In their defense, I did have the opportunity to learn how to wrench before the age of 10, and I realize that everyone has to start somewhere, but I used to shudder when I thought of these guys back then having to go to work in a shop, and that was 1997. Good luck Blue, keep your head up, and realize you're not going to figure it all out overnight, or probably in a year or two. This job takes experience to get proficient, and you are going to have half as much time to figure it out, because you have twice as much time to spend diagnosing problems with a computer instead of wrenching with tools and gauges.
A freekin MEN to that Shimmy.!!! What most techs don't realize is just because the "tool" told him it was an O2 sensor & he replaced it & the lite is still on.. doesn't mean it was an O2 sensor.. BUT the tool said it was.. we musta got a bad one.?? Lets spend another 100.00 of the customers money to get a new one.. The problem that I saw before I left was NO TRAINING.. even the instructors couldn't get the **** to work.. IN THEIR OWN CLASS ROOM.. its a joke out there.. & the thing about it is> ITS NOT FUNNY. Just keep Yes Sir, Yes Sir till u cant Yes Sir no more.. keep your head down & do your work till they say u cant..
The book, in my experience, was written by a prick with a stopwatch. He starts the watch when you're turning wrenches, stops when you stop to grab another wrench and won't start till you're on task again. When I was in heavy truck, back in the 90s, I had to participate in time study . That's how they did it. If you were , for example, changing head gasket on an M11 in an 8100 IH and you performed the job in 8 hours, your bud did it in 8.8 and the other guy did it in 8.6. They would add em and divide em by number of techs. That would be book for customer pay. Then they take the shortest time and knock 30%off and that's your warranty pay rate. You dont make money on warranty by design. The B!tch is you don't know that sneaky b@st@rd is timing, you're there humping trying to make book, and that dirty b@st@rd is re-writing the book! Remember to document everything you do on a job, for example replace head gasket seems simple, but there are various other operations involved, R&I A/C , drain and fill cooling system, R&I air compressor discharge line, R&I air cleaner, R&I exhaust pipe. You get the picture, all those peripherals are added operations that unless specifically listed in work descriptions are fair game to add to your work. 2 tenths here, 7 tenths there. It adds up and you're entitled to it. As time goes by. you'll find your shortcut. Can I get by doing it this way? Last thing, if you're expected to make book time, then there should be incentives to make or beat it, not just scowls and browbeating when you don't.
There isn't much training in most jobs these days. They just throw you right into the fire. If you're lucky one of the experienced guys will take you under his wing and help you out. Just be aware some guys are so paranoid you're there to take their job they won't help you with anything or tell you if your doing something wrong. You can usually figure out pretty fast who's on your side though.
1976 in the Truck shops, Clutch on a COE freightliner was 5.5 hours, +.7 for Flywheel R&R, + whatever else you had to do besides Clutch. Move to 1984 that dropped to 3.4 hrs clutch, .4 flywheel and if had other work similar reductions. Job got no easier, just the Actuarial time studies used repetitive sequencing to Time Study determine the pay time. New truck, not filthy, clutch still new, and on the third R&R that time became book time. GM Ford Chrysler, all the major HD and Med Duty truck companies same. Made a Killing on trucks in 76/77/78, then the rug got pulled out.
I work for a dealer. We use the "book" as a rough guide. My supervisors are all mechanics, not office knobs, so they at least know what's involved in the job. A definite plus in my mind.
Interesting reading all these reply's. Just remember the enemy of good is better, and those company people are not fooling anyone with their flashy dress. Actually their just farting through cheap polyester.
Heck, I have been at Dealers for 39 years and I still don't make time on many jobs. And I swear they are making the book times faster and faster as time goes on. As I like to say, "rather get yelled at for taking too long than get yelled at for doing it twice". Hang in there Blue and listen to the advice of all these excellent people and concentrate on learning and doing a job right. Speed will come with experience.
I've never worked for an equipment dealer that used any type of "book" times. Time and materials or straight up bid was the only measure and the bid times went away to estimated times with no guarantees. I look at "book" times as a way of cheating mechanics out of pay. Under time and material rules the dealers are happy to get the job done properly and usually stand behind their work. The "book" time people usually treat their customers like they treat their mechanics. There is the rule of thirds that I used for making bids. Basically it means that a job has an initial amount of time with no experience, and then around a third less when repeated to get to a base line. Say it takes 100 hours to rebuild a certain engine by a certain person, the time it takes to do it a second or more times will be around 66 to 70 hours. Where people get bit by this is they only consider the actual time on the engine itself and not all the ancillary stuff, finding suppliers, running parts, obtaining tooling, clean up, billing and on and on.
Worst we had at the Flat Rate angle was the Bosses wife and her Imaginative Book Keeping. OT was a Calculation but NEVER over time and a half, used base work hours against chargeable time, when had to get a job done the OT was calculated against the schedule UNTIL a guy made over 40 hours chargeable, then it just magically disappeared to 1.5. As a floor tech not yet working foreman I made 46+ hours in a 32 hour work week one week(holiday) with a 3 hour OT with another tech, they tried to Calculate my OT against the 32 hours of workdays, that did not fly and I threw a fit. The other tech got that same song and dance where we asked how they came up with that(he had almost 40 hours). SHE stated we only had a 32 hour week, even as we were getting FREE Pay for that holiday, again that did not fly and we stood our ground, I suggested we may have to call NLRB when all of a sudden our pay was corrected and all just considered a miscalc. And BTW, Chargeable hours STILL Sucked butt. When got decent equipment could make time, when got stuck with crap as Fire Trucks or RVs the hours were not ever even close. They based Fire Trucks on Base Chassis usually, the old La France in the local department were IHC base so got IHC time, RVs with GM engines were charged as P30 GM Step Vans even as NOT even close. Very seldom would they go T&M some days would argue MY estimates even as the owners still brought their machines to us. Hard Estimates on HE as Crawlers or Road work at Job Sites on HE. Trailers were always T&M.
I've seen lot's of guys get fired for mistakes. Very few for being too slow. Just about every job I had as a mechanic from 1976 to 1999 bosses pressured me to work faster, it's what they do, even if you're the best performer. Seems like an easy decision. Take as long as it takes to do it right and when they complain about time say yes sir.
Run my signature line through in your head while you're getting a reaming - just don't ever say it out loud though, it could be considered non-PC...
I have told all my potential bosses im not always the fastest but i rarely have to work on something twice.i only worked in one shop that was flatrate and will never do it again, i learned alot of tricks but it wasnt for me everyone took to many shortcuts , i have been a truck mechanic for near 20 years with quite a bit of time repairing heavy equipment also. Learn and try to be the best at what you do and you will never have a problem if and when you get tired of managment.
Why do I have this picture in my head that you HAVE said that aloud in a most awkward point in time!!!
I HAVE.... It was PRICELESS.!!!
More than once actually..... I think I spoke of it on HEF previously in regards to an interaction with a Safety Officer. I think there's a difference when someone with many years experience makes a comment like that compared to the apprentice making it .........
I don't know of any heavy Equipment dealers who are flat rate. I mentioned book times because our warranty work is paid at a flat rate. Deere will pay so many hours to do a job no matter how long I take to do it. The good news is that I am paid hourly. For customer (retail) work many jobs are quoted so again that is where book times come in because the management has a "flat rate" guide (Deere calls it spg's) to use to determine what they should quote (with a fudge factor of course, usually 1.6 times flat rate). Again if the boss quotes 2 hrs and I take 4, at least I am paid 4. The issue with us (me and Blue) working for Deere is they have this program that measures our efficiency based on the billable hours and labor performance (see below). I do not know if Blue's dealership uses the same program but probably something similar. They want to see us in the green on all three meters and as you can see I am not. Fortunately for me I have a good management who understands that as senior tech at our dealership I am interrupted all the time by field and shop techs for help with their troubleshooting or guidance when rebuilding a component and they take that into consideration at raise time knowing the interruptions affects my efficiency.
That's not bad at all, from where I sit.. I got a kick outta the web address.. I got tired of the damned if u do, damned if u don't, going on at my shop too.. It was either help the younger guys or get labeled an AH.. I started to help, then got my azz chewed because of my production time & decided to be an AH.. & got chewed for not helping.
They did tell me they expect me to help when asked so of course I expect them (and told them) to understand the efficiency thing in return. I just got a new boss recently and he has been pretty good so far. Unfortunately my spider sense tells me that might be changing in the near future since the bean counters call the shots and as you know sh&^ flows down hill.
My best advise is to work safe and be proficient. Do the job RIGHT, not fast. Keep in mind your work is a reflection of who your are as a tech. When you are in the learning process, check your work over twice! Learn as much as you can from the tech's that are more experienced than yourself. Strive to be that tech that has NO redo's. Don't let the pressure get to you. You can always tell them what I did, and still do today...…….."You can get this done right, cheap, or fast. None of the 3 go in the same sentence and I only warranty RIGHT."
It helps if management understands the relationship between flat rate and the speed of the two types of mechanics: Type one has a lot of experience with a certain line of equipment. He can read the manual and memorize all the procedures well and follows them well. Memory and speed are his strengths. Type two has a lot of common sense and can repair equipment he has never seen or heard of before because he has analytical skills, intellectual flexibility and the ability to make sound judgement calls. It may take him longer to preform tasks because he has to figure them out and come up with his own procedures. Both have their place. Type one is the typical dealer mechanic because the arithmetic usually makes sense to the employer.
There's a "complications" line in the workorder program we use. Its nice because it saves our bacon. I was over the quote on a job by several hours not so long ago. I had 4 injectors seized into a head. At least with photos of the rusty injectors I had attached to the workorder I was able to justify the additional time. Plus the boss man was happy because that time was now billable time. Only time my phone comes out during work hours is to photograph complications.
Complications, I like that. Years ago I was working inside a Ford truck trying to remove a wiring harness from a bag phone (remember those) for transfer to a new truck and I could not get that harness to pull out. Of course they had told me "this job should only take a couple of hours" Come to find out the parking brake mounting plate or whatever was bolted down sandwiching the harness between itself and the wall/inside fender. The harness is actually a black jacketed cable and you could see all the wire colors and it was splayed out completely flat and some had copper showing, AFAIK it was still working though. Had to do some writing on the work order to explain why that job had taken so long, for sure.
Had a "complication" today. Manual said to turn the valve cover sideways to remove (in tight spot) No go. After an hour of frustration, figured out lifting the engine against the rubber mounts allowed enough clearance. Do the flat rates include cleaning covers and such or just slap the dirty, grit encrusted parts together ? I figure the rates are done on brand new equipment. No dirt, No rust, No seized bolts.
Extras cost extra. I dont clean squat when I'm on a gainer. Tear it apart, swap out what needs replacing, adjust if needed, bang it back together and let er rip.
It comes down to good stories on the work order. For warranty I usually write what I did on the job and then specify at the bottom, Extra time needed for xx. It helps if you get to know the warranty coding as well, quite often you can claim to remove panels you didn't have to in order to get paid for more time. I would never do that on a customer work order, just to try to squeeze more outta warranty When I first started out my times sucked, but the object is to strive to have no comebacks. As long as your work is clean and correct, doing it faster will come later. Most of our apprentices start out at 60% efficient. Its completely expected. Often a good attitude and a respectful prompt worker is way better then one that solely makes time on jobs. Lots of good advice from some old wrenches on here
I had a job a while back where an engine breather needed to come off and get resealed. Of course the reason they leak is poor design and just bolting them back together will result in another leak so I have developed this system where I sort of glue them with a sticky sealant. It is a flat rate job and I have done so many I can do it pretty quick but what chapped my hide was the whole area was covered in oil and brake cleaner is not real cheap and this job takes a couple of cans. We bill for all that stuff, it costs money but, no the company did not want to pay for those cans of brake clean. I don't understand why anybody would want to do warranty work.
The good old saying (originally applied to warranty claims but works for anything) applies - "If you have a $50,000 claim (or bill) you need a $50,000 story to explain it" ........ that's what the space on the bottom of the WO is for. Also remember - "If you have insufficient space continue on a separate sheet of paper"
I agree.. ALWAYS put additional time needed for "X".. even if its for> arrived on site to find machine engine covered in oil.. took 5 cans of cleaner & 1 hr to clean area, in order to begin work..
Pressure washing AFTER a repair is a Extra, as is most any deep cleaning Prior to repairs, just have to document, identify and Justify.
Storytelling 101, gets ya paid!
I worked for a service manage who after reading one of my short stories said that the number of words used correlates to the amount of screw ups and BS that happened on the job. Many of the reports I read over the years went something like this: drove to site, found machine broken, fixed same, returned to store.
$4.75 plus travel. That's all I'd pay for that
When on your service call and find a valve bridge post broken off in the in the head do not do this. Hit it with a shot of brake cleaner. Then weld on it to pull it, The brake cleaner is the catalyst for the vapors in the crankcase. After it blows your butt off the engine it is safe to go back to work one it.
Thanks for all the advice fellas, my email notifications haven't been working real well. So far things have smoothed out. I was told 75 percent efficiency is the mark and I think if My manager gives me a mix of jobs I've done and new jobs in that ratio that will be able to be accomplished. Some of the battle is she doesn't understand much more than the basics [had to explain what a cylinder and piston were recently) so billing much more than the basics often results in errors. I guess I will just stick to the one and done method and if another job opportunity comes along I will look into it. Unfortunately I did have a job come back today, I wasnt aware it was even in the shop and i don't know what all was done to it by the other tech but I was told I left a paper towel in the water passage when I put a water pump in it a month or so ago. Today was not a good day but I guess that means tomorrow can only be better
Dont put rags in holes, leave them open of you cant cap them. Or use a plastic bag over and end of hose with a wire tie, or my favorite is save up those bigger magnetic business cards and use them to cover flat ports on a block or head. One former tech changed a drive coupling on an excavator last year was told not to put any rags in hoses and to mark all hoses, guess what happened. Pump had to be rebuilt and had to have cat come out and fix the mess it was costly . Just a few tips to keep in mind , also one of the shops i worked at had what we called engine rags all it was was a huge red shop rag but you could use one and lay it over the whole top of an open truck engine .
Never, never ever light off brake cleaner. Some , I think chlorinated ones, produce poisonous gas when ignited
For sure … (tenwheeler was joking) Here's the details of Phosgene gas created by heating brake cleaner fumes. Fumes +welding arc = Phosgene. THE STUFF IS NOT FLAMMABLE but breaks down into Phosgene gas with heat. https://envirofluid.com/articles/tetrachloroethylene-a-deadly-danger-in-brake-cleaner/
Oh lord You might want to go ahead and make a bailout plan if your service manager is that green
I use a wide roll of painters tape to cover openings. Its bright green and leaves no residue. I still triple check all passageways before I install something. Had 2 techs at our shop this year leave a plastic plug in a main oil passage and a turbo drain line.
So a woman, that has no clue about anything mechanical, hydraulic, or electrical, is the boss over techs production rates and efficiencies!? RED FLAG How can ANY boss be proficient at that job not knowing what it takes to perform it? Good luck with that!
I know he was kidding, I just like to sneak in safety moments, especially with young'uns . Some folks may never know unless told. It might stick, might not. Hope it does.
I don't know how many places I have worked-fired twice and quit the rest. Everyone of those employers after the fact wished I was still there. Never been unemployed longer than a week. Where I'm at now for the last 16 years the owner admitted he wishes I was 45 not in my 60's. Plus the fact he knows he can't replace me without hiring two people to replace me, and even then he would be screwed. Truthfully the owner of the company I work for now is about the only employer I have worked for that isn't *** wipe.
I'm sure this was not meant to say just because it was a woman that is the problem. But I always had a problem with anyplace that puts a wall up between the person bringing in something with a problem and the person who is going to be expected to work on it. Not sure what the real solution would be to that.
Only solution to that that i know of that works is service writer is a former tech in the field be it semi retired or wants to quit wrenching .
It's always been and issue with me about someone in fancy clothes, shiny shoes and no experience coming in to run any kind of operation involving dirt, oil, grease and skilled labor. Administration and management has no idea what it takes in time and skill to perform a task and yet they are bidding, estimating or guaranteeing costs. When the bad things start happening they blame the skilled labor!
Correct. I should have been more specific. My apologies to the ladies of course!
Very true! Had a upper level management guy in the company who started out as an office clerk. Don't know if he ever touched a shovel or grease gun in his life. When he was put in charge of the state for the company at his first meeting with us at the quarry he made it clear where he stood. His main statement was: "I don't know anything about making stone, but I know how to make money!" Problem is his main theory on how to make money was to not spend money. Eliminate workers and stop training those that are left and tell them things like "I thought you were a mechanic!" Did not matter that the last real training anyone of us had was before Cat installed the first ECM in a loader and even a diode was an unusual component to find in a wiring schematic. And when he finally decided to get set up with a laptop with Cat ET on it he expected to have one to be shared by all of the quarries across the state. Almost as smart as having one grease gun for the whole state!
I've been on both sides of the desk with a major corporation. I was a tech that worked on electro/electronic-mechanical comm equipment for seven years. I went to school at night and got an Associate's degree in business management and wound up being the lead technician. Not tooting my horn but I was very good at what I did. Management selected me to go to through a one day management assessment ordeal (role playing, etc.) and I guess I did okay because I was promoted from hourly to 1st level management. I had to move (it was the policy) and I was thrown into the fire supervising my first crew. It was a real struggle and extremely stressful, I would be at my desk at 0630 hours to organize work for the crew and I would stay until the last guy came in (usually 1800-1900 hours.) Saturdays I spent at least half a day at my desk catching up on paperwork. The company sent me to various schools which helped me learn how to be an effective manager. I had zero control over the work that came in to my crew, every morning was a new adventure and my boss expected everything to be completed on the due date. No excuses which added to my stress level but I persevered and got another crew a few months later that had older and more experienced guys. It was a good bunch and we had a good working relationship. I respected them and they knew what I expected - quality work done by the book except in very unusual circumstances. I had to inspect every guy's field work twice a month and if something wasn't done right I would show them the problem. My guys were union represented which was never a big issue for them (and the shop steward) or me. I treated them as I would like to be treated and that was that mostly. Once in a while I would have a guy that would not or could not go with the flow for various reasons. I always made sure we didn't have a training or personal issue which impacted their work. I had one guy that was a good dependable troop and all of a sudden he starts to get argumentative and didn't perform to expectations. Long story short he had a brain tumor (he was in his 40s) and went on disability. Every two weeks I had to take his paycheck to his house (company policy when on disability) and I watched him slowly decline. It one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do. In every crew (anywhere from 8 to 12 people) I had, I always had one person that took up 80% of my supervision time. One guy had such a poor persona I made a job for him where he didn't come into contact with any customers - no telling how much damage this guy did before I sequestered him. He really should have been fired but that would have been a long struggle for me, the crew and my boss. Ultimately I got out of having direct reports and got a staff job and moved again (for the third time), more night school finishing up my Bachelor's and then a Master's degree. Another promotion. A good career but I paid my dues. Are there lousy managers out there - of course. Just because you are good being a tech or mechanic doesn't mean you have the skill set or capability to be a leader.
That last bit says it all for me and is a major problem that seems common in many places. I do recall one day one of my bosses talking to me suggesting that he wanted to see about promoting me to the working group leader as they called it at the shop. Basically I would still be doing my job which was primarily one of two men who did 95% of the engine, transmission and component repairs for the machines in the shop for repairs but in addition I would be overseeing the work of the other six or eight guys in the shop. I told him thanks but no thanks. I said I'd much rather just do my job and if I screwed up had no problem taking responsibility for my mistakes but I did not want to be spending my time trying to explain why Fred or Tom screwed up. Besides the pay differential was at the most $0.25 an hour! He did say he understood and I was still there doing my job long after he retired!
The previous owner of the trucking company I work for now Once said {Anybody who can carry a bucket of water can install brake shoes}. My reply {Just because you can operate a pencil sharpener doesn't make you a business man}. The problem with business owners and management is the team player crap. I go to work because I like my job and earn a paycheck. I manage/supervise the shop and do most of the major repairs. I don't fraternize with the office help or the owner, I don't go to Christmas parties, or company picnics and the like. I have drivers that don't like me very well because I call them on their BS. When Freightliner Corp-sters show up I don't cut them any slack. But in the shop I spend most of my time being a Farside Comedian and when they laugh I always say {I made you laugh today}. I like to say to people who wear business clothes and all dressed up.--Get a haircut and get a real job why can't you be like your big brother BOB. From George Thorogood. And I really have a big brother named Bob
This song fits me like a glove when I was in high school and later in life.
What the hell kind of dealership puts that sort of person in a SERVICE MANAGER position? Are they attempting to combine the H.R. and service manager position? Wow.
Most dealerships like big talkers who feign wrench time. One I worked for said he completed an apprenticeship and then got a business degree. The guy couldn't tell you the difference between a sewing needle and a Detroit injector timing tool. Anyway they get put in the job bragging about how much money they will make the company and they only get paid about half to three quarters of what a good field wrench makes. Upper management will keep them there a year or two when the new manager figures out he isn't making the kind of money the job deserves and makes a pitch for more. Now his books get reviewed and another loud mouth gets a crack at the now vacant position. It's been that way for the last twenty years around here.
After 46 years of this business and dealing with service managers I have only dealt with two that I felt were honest. The prerequisite is to be the best BS artist and flat out lie with a straight face to fill the service writer requirements. When it comes to a warranty situation nearing the limits of years and mileage they will work their *** off to shove it off or band aid it til time passes. Mr. Milk Toast honest looking service manager {the pit viper Monday through Friday and goes to church on Sunday}.
A bit OT but the comment about the "pit viper" going to church. Struck a nerve with me, one day many years ago I had some Craftsman tools to take in for warranty. At least back then most stores near here never gave you a problem exchanging them. Well this one time on a Saturday I stopped at the store in the city and handed the tools to the guy in tool department. He started giving me a hard time saying I abused them and then he felt the need to say " I feel I'm justified in telling you this because I just came from church! " I did not know up to that point that Sears was a branch of any church! I told him fine just give them back and I'll leave! He said "No I'll replace them but just wanted you to know how I felt." Praise the Lord and pass the ratchet!
Just an update. They hired a new kid and an intern who are getting preferential treatment bad enough for other techs to approach me about it. I had an engine that I buttoned up and found a driveline issue on that would cause a problem. I notified the foreman the manager and took pictures on my phone of the story I wrote documenting it. Left to go to the dmv over lunch and tractor was gone when I got back, manager delivered it to the customer and promised she told them about it. I got pulled in the office and sent home suspended without pay until Tuesday when I am supposedly having a meeting with managers and hr. The good news is I had alot of free time today to visit other shops and pickup applications. Got suspended because that driveline let go and caused havoc. Of course the manager is playing dumb about it
Take that phone and documentation with you, they get frisky let them know the address for the NLRB if they choose to be stupid as to placing blame. They OWE you pay for an undeserved suspension.
Make copies of the photos and documents. Keep in a secure place. A reminder is needed sometimes to get some folks to do the right thing. I once got a day's pay for 30 minutes when I reminded them I was a salaried employee. You may get several days worth of pay.
Sounds like they want to be rid of you no matter what. Time to evacuate to a better place...you should be able to move on no problem. People like that ain’t worth working for. And I feel ya on the preferential treatment thing. Let the wonder boys do it all if they think they are so good.
^^ Yup^^.. IF they stick him w/ U.. then u know its time to leave.. They're grooming him to replace u.. I would head it off.. & don't forget, anything u say will go straight back to the head office.. So what I would do is, 1st day they stick him w/u is.. just walk him around & show him where all the parts are for every job your working on & what "U THINK" the problem is.. & say "U MIGHT COME TO ANOTHER CONCLUSION." but please don't call me.. U might also tell him from the VERY START, "U need a note pad to write all this down, just incase I'm not around".. DONT tell him outright your leaving or quitting or think their gonna fire u.. JUST HINT.. Cus ITS GOING STRAIGHT BACK to the "Big Ears".. & you'll hear about it 1 way or another.. I hope it works out in YOUR favor..
None taken I was a shift supervisor for about year at a very large miners shop in AZ. Let me first point out that for instance, I know absolutely nothing about the 143 miles (<seemingly) of wiring that inhabit a 793's innards. I had 15 guy's and a working head mechanic who did. It was not my job to figure out exactly what was wrong. It was my job to get the gear in the barn, so the shop could make the repairs and get it back in the field. If that could be done instantly so much the better as an empty truck is a vacuum and nature and truck owners hate vacuums. It was my job to pick the battles we could win and keep the maximum amount of iron in the field that was not scheduled into the shop for PM or component swap due to hours or rebuild because of failure. Because of the way the shop staff was organized with the Shop Superintendent, two supers under him, several service writers, a safety guy, the shifters, working foreman and a crew that was very talented, that job has been one of my favorite positions ever. The crew didn't need me asking dumb questions, they did have to tell me what they were up against what they felt they needed and a approx timeline to "out the door." In the particular case of the short in the 2 inch bundle of spaghetti that is the loom of a 793 the tech looked at me and said he didn't know... not the answer I was looking for but considering the considerable tenure and talent this man had it was the answer I settled for and 3 shifts later and many many diagnostics later he produced a runner. My job was easy because that crew was beyond good as well as all the support to the shop including our Cat residents. If I would have dropped dead on the floor, they would have mucked me out and the jobs they were working on would have got done. It didn't matter that I was female it really was/is a mute point. Anyone in that position can determine fairly quickly who can and who can't. I was blessed with a group of techs who could really produce. I just got out of the way and made sure that they could safely fly at it. I was proud of them then and I am still proud of them now. It was my honor to have worked with them.
On a regular basis/ quite the norm, there was always 2-3-4 shiny shoed blow-hards standing in your way LOOKING, when u were "trying" to work.. I finally said, "ALL u pencil pushers, get outta my way".. {AC/DC.. Back in Black} & it worked rather nicely.. Cuz they KNEW who they were..& there was no 2nd guessing, "is he talking about me?" OR just stop working all together.. I was asked, "what are u doing?".. & said, "just waiting until u fellas get outta my way so I can fix this.".. OR if I was in a bad mood, it would come out WAY different..
Hated audiences, did not care for Shop owner or fleet manager questioning my every move or what I was doing and why. Was a working foreman just at half my career as Mechanic as well self directed contractor on the side, did not need more pressure and yes TPGSC approach works REALLY well, stop and stare back, when they ask you what's up say 'Waiting until you're OUT OF MY WAY', and they will get the message when on the clock.
My stock comment to get rid of onlookers or rubberneckers is/was always - "I wasn't aware that this was a spectator sport". Other than that not much to be said apart from what's been said already. Make sure you have the photographic evidence of the driveline well saved.
There must be some kind of employment standards branch in Iowa. Suspended without pay because something broke that you pointed out to them and they didn't act on isn't your fault. They owe you the lost days wages at the very least. I worked at one place where the only reason one Sr. manager got his job was because he went to the same church as the owners. Didn't have a clue. I quit because of his incompetence and so did several others before me. It was so bad at one time that the millwright foreman told him he had stay out of the shop because too many good millwrights were leaving and they can't spend all their time training new guys. He stayed away for awhile but then went back to being the idiot he is. Of course the HR person was so far up his butt it wouldn't have mattered what anyone who had issues with him said.
When there was abunch of'm standing around BSing.. I liked to walk by & say, "Cant get no work done like THAT, fellas".. The dumbfounded looks on their faces was priceless.. as they scattered..
I worked at West Edmonton Mall and they had a flood at the ice rink from the roof made of skylights. Not the 1st time. This idiot and a 2nd one just as bad were standing on the 2nd floor talking on their cell phones watching everybody else cleaning it up including the new female manager of the mall. It was company policy not to do personal projects on company time but the 2nd idiot wanted us to make some bear bait traps for him so the 2 idiots could go hunting on the weekend. The apprentice made them but he was the 2nd idiots nephew. Not a bad guy but he never seemed to get the abuse everyone else did... Hmmm. We always wondered if he was telling stuff to his idiot uncle.
Two of our guys (both happen to be boss’s pets of course) spend hours (and I mean hours at a time) talking instead of working. I’ve said before that it’s nice that our company lets couples spend time together at work so they don’t miss each other when not at home.
Final update on the situation. I accepted a job at the local Caterpillar dealership that actually happens to be closer than the John Deere dealership. The position is mostly heavy trucks/ semis with some ag and some heavy equipment mixed in. after getting a good grasp of everything I hope to progress into a service truck after say 5 years. I have not had the luxury of telling my service manager that two weeks is all I have left yet
Caterpillar has excellent training. Is that Altorfer out by you?
Good deal You could always give them a to-day notice instead of a two week notice lol
Don't burn bridges without a significantly good reason. Feeling good is not one.
Wot he said...... I’d be asking the present employer for a reference before I left.
They were kool enough to give u the job in the 1st place.. don't screwm over.. get that notice in writing & lay it on the mngr's desk.. PRONTO.. IF he wants to "talk about it", he'll call u in the office.. BE SURE to DATE IT.. You know, a lot of companies have adopted the policy that,, if u do not give a 2 wk notice, you don't get your vacation & personal time when u leave..!!! THATS just something to think about.. IF its a substancial amount.. stay the extra days/week & just tell the other people that u cant leave your current employer "hang'n" & U NEED TO work out your notice.. It worked for me.. when I got hired at another company, they wanted me there "yesterday" & kept pushing the point.. I finally said, "LOOK, I've been w/ this co for 20 YEARS.. I believe I owe them something.. I HAVE TO work out a 2 week notice.".. "YOU wouldn't like it if I did THAT to you, would u??"
Two week notices are a bunch of crap passed on down from a by gone era and typically were only used for salaried positions. Most states are work by convenience, so ask yourself if the employer would reciprocate if the shoe was on the other foot. My last employer had the habit of sending off sales staff that were leaving by having them turn in all the computer stuff at the time they gave notice and terminating right then and there. I signed up for two weeks of vacation time and on the first day of my vacation I turned in all my stuff, cleaned out my work station and then went to the manager and gave him the letter of resignation. When he asked why, I told him I could no longer work in a toxic environment, turned around and left. Those people tried telling the industry I had retired. I told the industry that I fired them for cause.
2 weeks notice..? You lot are lucky, my contract says I have to give 90 days.....
For the most part we don't work under contracts here. Employment laws rule the employer / employee relationship.
Mechanic jobs believe it or not is a small group.. pretty much everybody knows everybody.. & they're just a phone call away.. Try walking off a job w/o notice around here.. if u didn't have a job to go to.. it would be a cold day in h*ll before u DID..
Zeigler cat around me
It would depend upon the circumstances. If the company treated me well and I am leaving for personal reasons then I would give notice. If it's a stressful toxic environment and that's the reason I am quitting, then my notice is given when I am backing my truck to the door to load my tools. Two weeks notice is a bunch of crap. Companies don't give you that when they are going to let you go. So why in the hell do they expect it from you. 70 years ago it was a different environment. Companies treated you well and employees were loyal for it. Now they treat you like an expendable and are offended at your lack of loyalty. Do what you feel is best. There is always work for a diesel mechanic and the next company doesn't care if you gave notice or not.
Some companies don't want the quitting employee around for two weeks after their notice. Various reasons... The usual path is to pay the employee for two weeks and escort them out the door on day of their notice. Think of it as two weeks extra paid time off.
I burned a bridge once. Totally worth it.
When a employee in the construction company I worked for turned in a two week notice my employers policy was to limit their computer access that day. We had a very open company knowledge policy with employees. Usually they assigned someone with them to gain as much info as they could on the current jobs the leaving employee was running. They did pay them and treated them fair to the end. We had a very small turnover anyway and most were due to a family issue or major move to somewhere else. More than half came back within a year. The grass always looks greener but it does not always taste better. But if you are eating bitter grass it is time to go.
What kind of money is Zeigler throwing at you and what is your experience? I'm just curious.
I with the "Today is my last day" notice group. Corperate employers , IMO think any scrub can do your job with a couple weeks of school. I have only quit one job with a 2 week notice and that was because my boss had been good to me and I was relocating. The everybody knows everybody thing works the other way as well. As soon as the word got out I had quit the job offers came rolling in.
I was really more of joking when I said “to-day” notice but I’m also getting the feeling that his employers are such as to try some stuff to screw him over as punishment for daring to leave. I have worked for places I was glad to be able to lateral transfer out of instead of quit as I felt they were the kinds of places to try such games.
I once quit a job as a truck mechanic, leaving a truck blocking the scales at the steel mill. I stopped by Carquest on the way home and told the owner I was gonna take 2 weeks off and then look for a job. The phone was ringing when I got home, I started as evening shift shop foreman for a big independent IH shop that evening.
Mitch, that wouldn't happen to be a Mack truck w/ an electronic inj. pump would it.??
Nope, they hadn't built electronic pumps back then. It was a Mack, though. I was working at the next place when DDEEC was introduced.
I ran from cars and trucks to heavy truck trying to avoid computers. Boy did i get a surprise. DDEC I waiting for me the next year. Cat n Cummins hot on their heels. So i got lucky in a way. I learned while diesel EFI was in its infancy.
Was involved from mid 70s into mid 90s with most every application out there, gas, diesel, lp, cng, , electronic, old style analog, hard injection and ECM fed injection, got tired of trying to learn new all the time, tired of trying to keep up with tooling. Can still remember the early days of DDEC and the idiots pushing pins thru wires to bypass the governor or max out horsepower and cooking a briefcase sized ECM, wanted to mash someone's face into the pavement for those stupid guesses. Worst walkaway I actually had parts in hand for a engine when a foreman told me when I was done I was also released, I dropped the pieces of a scattered 6/110 DD and loaded tools. Had a truck shop owner's child give me a riot act of reasons he would always be right, gave him my notice(one week) and went on vacation, check came by mail for both last two weeks pay and remnant vacation. Was working in both situations the next work week.
Funny you mention guys cooking the ECMs. I took some CAT training not too long ago. I remember the instructor saying a lot of perfectly ok ECMs were sent in for warranty in the early days of electronics. The techs back then I guess just replaced ECMs because they didn't understand how they worked. I didn't get involved in the business until early 2009 so I missed the days of early electronics.
The techs back then were told to check the ECM by replacing it with a known working ECM. The problem was ECMs back then carried no core value and once you broke the seal on the package you couldn't return it. Put that together with lousy training and manuals translated from another language and you get a lot of good ECMs changed for nothing. The manufacturers didn't care, they just sold another ECM.
Put in my notice right away in the morning yesterday and they at least let me finish lunch before we signed papers. My new job graciously let me unload my boxes in the back parts room which avoided another series of loading and unloading and has gone above and beyond to help get the process moving for a start date. Drug and physical tests today hope to start next week. I have 1 year of experience on john deere equipment and I worked Friday noon to midnight and saturday 8 to noon at a truck shop in college. I am getting paid 4 dollars an hour more than I was at the deere dealership
And they already brought up the john deere sticker on my toolbox lol. Unfortunately it's an adhesive type sticker that will take some paint with it lol. That sticker is the reason I got the then 2 year old master series box for 2000 dollars but now I feel foolish lol
So what is the hourly wage Ziegler is starting you at?
I gave proper notice at one place and was told to leave as soon as I went in the next day. Had to go to employment standards to get a weeks severance pay for 1 year of working there. I had everything documented and the company had nothing. I think they were charged a whole $50 for not paying the severance. When I worked at the mall, I walked out of a meeting with HR after trying to voice my opinion about being written up. Of course they wouldn't allow me to have any witnesses as to what actually transpired. My sister owns a hair salon and she'd rather pay the 2 weeks notice and have the employee leave right away. The last thing she needs is the leaving employee taking the salons clients away. Some clients are loyal to a stylist and will follow them but others could be new and don't care who does their hair or like the salon.
Soften it with a heat gun..? Glad to hear everything worked out for you. Keep us updated on progress with your new job. One thing that's not short around HEF is Cat experience......
Good luck on your new gig. Hope it works out well for you. Will you be enrolled in their THINK BIG program?
Hopefully the guy that almost ruined the old D6 in a Previous Post is not your trainer or lead man at Zeigler!!
If they haven’t mentioned it so far, ask.......
Nothing so far about the think big program. I don't think I could go back to school honestly. I got the basics at the john deere program so hopefully the in house training will get me where I need to be.
Being that I am not familiar with company policy yet I will wait to answer until I know for sure there is no stipulation on sharing wages
You never stop! Continuing education is key to sustainability. For you to remain marketable, you have to be current. Don't get left behind.
The Think Big training is all done on-line AFAIK. You take the modules as and when you have time available to do them.
We have ThinkBig's here at our shop. Being that we have apprenticeships here for skilled trades they do have to attend a college for school every year. As far as I know, only one college in the province is set up to take the ThinkBig students. As to what actually happens at the college I can't really say. I can always quiz the students on it I guess.
I went through the Think Big program here in the states. For us it was 8-10 weeks in the shop and 8 weeks in a compressed semester at school, alternating for five semesters. I received a Diesel Technology associates degree for it. What you are talking about sounds like Cat’s online classes
If you go by a painter supply shop they might have these gum sticker erasers that you chuck up in a drill motor. The eraser is sacrificial, as it goes, it rolls up the edges of the sticker and it all falls to the floor. Or maybe just get one of those red circles with a slash through it and stick over the JD sticker, cheap and easy
This was one of the things that bugged me about where I worked. For the first say 30 years training was considered important. About half the guys in the shop each year would be sent to a weeks training at one of the manufactures, Cat, Cummins, Mack, and so on. Then at least once a year they would bring in someone, maybe a dealer or parts supplier to give a two day seminar at out shop, often this included mechanics from other branches of the company in the state. Then new "management" came along that had the idea that training was a "expense" and not an "investment" and the major goal was to cut expenses any way he could! About the only thing that came close to "training" was getting to attend what I felt was more of a sales pitch for Cat ET than actual training on how to make full use of it. Maybe three hours in class room and another hour or so wandering around out in the yard playing with the machines, five or six guys to a laptop and one instructor for a class total of about thirty students!
And thats a crying shame. Current technology should always be kept current
Friend of mine still does Rental Fleet Truck mechanic update training, he will school up for a few months, note those aspects he will allow the shop workers to deal with(Warranty is still Engine Company's) and run the route of shops in that fleet to train the boys up.
Hell I'm almost 50 and back in class. Gotta get certificate for warranty pay. If not, company takes a hit on warranty claims. The wanna know your guys are current. Yeah, don't ever turn down training of any kind. It all adds up and it's yours to keep. When you stop learning, its time to give it up
Take all the training you can get if the company is paying for it or paying you for that matter. It makes you a more valuable employee. Do you want to keep the job or be looking for another one? A friend of mine worked in a big vessel shop. Things were slow and there was talk of layoffs. He casually mentioned it to the foreman. The foreman asked him how many (welding) tickets he had... 14. "You don't have to worry some of these guys only have 3." If it's an apprenticeship you have to go to technical school. Don't blow a good opportunity.
Work in the principle of - "The day I stop learning is the day they put me in a wooden box" and you'll do OK.
I have been out of the industry as a full timer for some twenty plus years, I try to keep up with those aspects that I MAY need and keep abreast of new equipment availed to the streets. The 3406E I was driving was pretty simple in as much as codes retrieval, was also easy to read on Technicians Laptop where I had schooling on those Eons ago but had not forgotten. My training and self learning kept me ahead of many of the faults machines have dealt me over the years.
The C15 and ISX were new tech when i got out of road trucks.
I dodged the DPF bullet for a while. I left on road in 2010 but the newest trucks in the fleet were '07 with EGR only engines. On the plus side, on road worked out a lot of the bugs for us
On the electronics engines, best advice I ever received was "Don't forget it is still an engine with Mechanical Faults that will trigger electronic malfunctions" Just fixing electronics codes many times would not fix the fault as I witnessed mechanics throw high dollar parts at machines.
Not an electronic engine but a 988H that kept sounding the plugged trans. filter alarm. After doing basic things like change filter and then the pressure switch, when that did not work I installed two pressure gauges to prove that there was no pressure drop across the filter, at least nowhere enough to set the alarm off. Cat dealer rep was convinced the problem was in the monitor panel on the dash and recommended replacing it. To make a long story somewhat shorter finally almost by accident found that a transmission temperature sensor was triggering the plugged filter alarm. Never could get anyone at Cat to explain how that was happening. But I sure know the boss would not have been happy if I had taken the Cat rep's advice and bought a new monitor and the problem was still there! So this was one time if you believed the computer, either the Cat ET one or the on-board ECM it would have cost hundreds of dollars with no cure! What really sucked is no one in the company felt it was important information to be shared with other plant mechanics who also had 988H and there were I recall at least half a dozen just in our state all bought around the same time. Have to wonder if our's had this problem how many others also might experience it as well?
And to think, all the newer machines have electronics EVERYWHERE. Still have mechanical faults, those transition to electronic cannot cope faults, those show up as bad or corrupt sensor streams, expand that by the volume of electro-mechanical systems today, then add in manufacturer proprietary limitations.
If the value doesn't fit in the parameters, it must be a sensor or actuator. Can't possibly be a mechanical failure, that would mean i get my hands dirty. Nope, must be a sensor.
Funny FWF!
i have not read all 8 pages but i can tell you this, after doing this type of work for nearly 30 years the book time can work for or against you. if you get paid book time for a certain job and can beat book time all is good, if it takes you twice as long then you are in the hole! if you are getting payed hourly then the dealer or the customer are the ones that benefit from you busting azz. oh it gets better, when you have to buy new tools or go get reeducated just to be able to keep up with changes. I have specialty tools in my toolbox that are obsolete now. I am not going to crack on JD only but they have been living off of their name for many decades now. still a pretty decent machine but not near what they were.
my biggest pet peeve with book time is, thats the amount of time it SHOULD take. Factor in a aged machine with rusty bolts, grease and grime oil leaks and it Will take longer. Example that happened to me last week, i had to remove the steering clutch covers on a tracked machine. complaint was the brakes wouldnt release, problem found shafts and linkages were rusty, solution take apart and clean and reseal everything. one side was over and done with in a hour and a half flat, the other side was a 5 hour job! same procudure to a bean counter but every bolt head was rusted to some extent a few had to be ground out and one had to be drilled out! It was a royal PITA but the folks in the airconditioned office area dont know and sometimes just flat out dont care......
Creative writing 101. Your pen is your most valuable tool. Well it was, now its your smartphone and laptop, but you get the point.
i guess, depends on who you work for and how they bill things. one shop i worked at had a great reputation for doing good work but would not charge by the book, they had a flat shop rate and however long it took unless is was something unrealistic was what was charged. screwoffs didnt last very long there.
If there is a flat rate then there ought to be like a separate line item for every broken bolt removal, etc. I just love the ones where somebody has been there before and messed everything up and you had to spend twice the time redoing it. Never sure how the customer will react when you hand them that bill.
Exactly as noted Bolts rusted grinding required to remove any torch time any other than dissassemble and reassemble with regular tools is a separate clock time gets entered as T&M or time and materials All the pressure washing anything besides the basic work gets a separate clock time. Have to learn to work the system now that does not include taking your time and does not allow dawdling with others
Caterpillar runs a distance education program called Cat University where all the employees can enroll in defined areas of education. Mechanics, product support, sale reps, administration, trainers and even executive staff have curriculums designed to allow training in nearly any aspect of the business that you can think off. Most of the mechanics at the dealer I worked at were required to accomplish minimum requirements for each pay grade. I can't tell you how many continuing education credits I have received going through the process. All technical occupations should have this available. Unfortunately it is not available that I know of to people outside of the dealer network or the manufacturer.
Neighbor kid when I was growing up got himself in to doing body work on cars. Was working for one of the larger dealerships in the area. After a few years of that he quit and went out on his own, main reason was the BS of flat rate. See the guy who assigned jobs gave preference to his drinking buddies and such and my neighbor always seemed to get the old rust bucket cars to deal with that took much longer than the flat rate books estimate.
kshansen, I think you misunderstood the flat rate i was talking about was the shops flat hourly rate, nevermind what the book time is. he charged x$ for ever how many hours the job actually took. I never minded working book time, in most cases it worked to my advantage. shop was going to charge my wife $90 to replace front wheel bearing on her car, thats was just labor I told her bring it home. took me 27 minutes including putting all the wrenches back away. they want me to come to work for them, still thinking about it. hard to go back to work for sombody else when you have been on your own.
one line i heard many years ago from a man that was almost ready to retire and i am holding this line for just the right time. he wasnt a mechanic he worked in a warehouse driving a forklift unloading trucks, new driver comes in smothering cant you unload me any faster?! Old pat look at him and says, "I have 2 speeds if you dont like this one you sure as hell dont want to see the other one". I had to leave, i couldnt hold back the laughter!!
Lol.. I love that saying.. I saw that written on a sign in some old rundown convienent store out on US 1 around Melbourne, Fla.. This old.. & I MEAN OLD man was behind the counter.. if he moved any slower my beer woulda got to warm to drink.. THEN I saw that sign.. lol.. I figured it wouldn'ta done me any good to say anything..Lol But LIKE U.. I never forgot it..
20.70 per hour for the Technician-Truck position