Hi there, thought I would join this forum just to get some opinions and ideas from people with some experience. I will be leaving school soon, and I'm looking to potentially start a landscaping business in the next couple of years. I used to work doing some basic soft landscaping, as well as digging graves, but I'm looking to focus more on hard landscaping, one idea I had was to offer a garden makeover service. This would mean I would have to undertake tasks possibly including levelling, trenching, digging ponds/water features/pools etc, turfing, paving and building patios/decking. I have worked with micro excavators in the past, but nothing too big, only a small Kubota. However, i know a couple of different guys who i can hopefully work with over the next couple of years who have some bigger machines. If I was to start up my own business what machine do you think I should look at getting though? Originally I assumed a mini digger would be best (around 1.5 tonnes, something with a bit more power than the Kubota but able to be towed with relative ease) but now I'm starting to think that a mini skid steer loader might be a better option, as the massive range of attachments could cover a huge amount of different jobs. I could potentially buy a used skid steer (Bobcats seem to be the cheapest option where I am) for not much more than a used mini digger, and get a dozer for levelling, landscaping buckets and possibly even a backhoe. I've also looked a compact track loaders and wheel loaders, but they look like they might be too expensive for a start-up business. Also would it be worth getting a dumper? What would be the most valuable machine for landscaping? Or combination of machines (i.e mini digger and a dumper). Bear in mind that it has to be a fairly cost effective option, and that if this does happen I would have the potential to expand in future. Of course, I think the best option is probably to get one machine pretty early on, then hire if I need something different for certain jobs. Thanks any advice or ideas appreciated
most landscape guys i know around here started with a zero turn mower and basic lawn tools and rented a skid or mini ex as needed until they could go out an purchase one. then again here in Miami grass grows fast all year round
Yeah I had kinda guessed I might need to hire for the first few years, but I was sort of looking for what I should be aiming for. I'll probably get a decent mower for the start, but there isn't a great deal of money in lawns where I am. In the autumn and winter the grass doesn't grow too much because it gets cold and frosty normally.
If you can only get one machine what about a Kubota b21 or b26. They can dig trench spread and move ground everything you asked to do. Then if things work out and want to buy more then you could do the mini ex and skid steer combo.
I suppose a Kubota with a backhoe could work well, any idea how much they go for? How much would one weigh? I'm looking to probably tow with a Land Rover Defender to start with.
I was sub ed out by many landscape contractors with my bobcat. I started with a 743 and a backhoe attachment. How about the target area you will be focusing on. I'm sure if you are starting out you will take what ever comes your way, but if larger yards are common then a compact machine may not be what you will need. Also don't forget instead of subbing out the work you most likely will be able to rent what you will need best for that job. An added plus to that, is you will be able to use different machines and find out what works best for your situation. Good Luck!!!!
They weigh around 1800kg or 4000lbs Not sure how much they would go for in the uk
I was in your spot when I started my business. On start up I rented machines, most times it was a Terra-Mite backhoe/loader. When I got enough business where the rental fees were exceeding a machine payment I made the move and bought a skid steer. It's probably the wisest purchase I've ever made. Make sure you consider one that will lift a full pallet of bricks, here that amounts to about 3200 pounds. My machine is only rated for 2000 lbs but I can unload pallets from a full size flatbed and move them where I want them. There have been times where I wished I had a compact track loader for less damage to turf and the ability to move in slick conditions, but as you mentioned cost is a consideration. On top of the initial purchase, the track and suspension maintenance costs are much higher as well. I purchased a number of attachments, pallet forks, 4 way bucket, Harley Rake, grapple rake, jib boom and snowblower that make the machine very versatile. A compact tractor with loader is a consideration too but you'll lose the capability to move full pallets of bricks, even with my friend's Ford 545 skiploader I was barely able to move them.
Get your business started first, landing the projects you want to do. Rent machines as needed to complete those jobs and figure out what will work the best for what you need. You may find out a machine you think you need now is either too large or too small, or not the right machine at all. Also keep your overhead low and your cash reserve plentiful.
Cm 1995, can you expound further on your concept on keeping your "cash reserve's plentiful" . I seem to really suck in this department.
I think most of you guys are spot on with the hiring thing to be honest. In fact, the guys I used to work with a pretty old now, and aren't exactly busy most of the time, I'm good friends with them so I'm sure they wouldn't mind me using the small Kubota digger for a small fee. I also know another bloke who's an agricultural contractor, he has a big JCB backhoe loader and a JCB mini excavator too. I think long term my goal would be to get a decent skid steer loader, or compact track loader, with an array of attachments as well as my own mini digger. I doubt I will buy any machines to start with, like people have said I don't really know what size areas I will be working with yet. I'll probably just use the Kubota if possible, and maybe hire something bigger when needed to start.
Thanks, I might consider hiring a small backhoe loader to see if I get on with it
I would start out with a grasshopper zero turn mower and trailer to haul it on
Have you considered a small stand on machine like the Vermeer s600/800? Light weight can fit in very tight places (I have seen one in a building lift before) and heaps of attachments. Due to the light weight you can put it on a trailer and still have room for your attachments.
Start with a rake and shovel and build your business from there. Make each tool pay for the next. First you will need a truck to work out of. I would suggest a 1 ton dump truck. Works much better then a pickup or flatbed as you will need to haul materials to and from 90% of your jobs. A dump trailer would also work as you can also use it to deliver the equipment you rent. From there only buy what you need. Remember an excavator will not work in the snow as well as a skid steer. Both would be the best as they work very well together.
Sounds like a personal problem and I am not a shrink.:tong
Yeah all good ideas, I know that realistically I'm not going to be able to get any heavy duty machines, but I do have some contacts and know people in my area who sell used machines I totally see the logic around the point of starting out with a rake and simply making sure each tool is paid for before buying the next, but where I live I can't see why anyone would choose me for the contract over anyone else if I only have very basic equipment. I think that having a machine adds value to the business, as well as greatly expanding the amount of jobs that I could potentially take on. Also, if the business is failing the machine could always be sold as a sort of exit strategy. I probably won't buy a machine right away, but I think there would be benefit in getting something as soon as possible. What would you people recommend hiring? A compact excavator? Thanks
B-26 kubota
Your logic is flawed thinking you can compete better if You own it, and sell it if you get in a jam. Whether you own or rent you should be charging the same to either cover the rental or maintenance and replacement of your own machine. If you're using it daily or weekly then i would look at owning
You should be asking yourself why anyone will hire you over someone else if you do own the equipment. This is how you determine your market strategy. As far as a machine recommendation, you should be the one determining that by the type of work you want to do, not us. I've already given my opinion based on what you've said you're interested in doing. An added benefit to renting equipment is you'll find out what suits you best. Have you done any research at all on how much business is available in your area?? Where I am landscapers are tripping over each other trying to find work, there's far too many for the amount of work available. That's why I gave it up, the pricing was being beat down to where it wasn't profitable.
To be brunt, it seems to me you are more concerned with buying a piece of equipment than getting your business off the ground. I'll give you a little of my 20 year experience as advice and say you have your priorities backwards. You need to get the work first, rent what you need and re-evaluate your equipment needs after the jobs are booked, completed and you have payment in hand. A machine with a note on it should never be an exit strategy, there are too many factors involved to depend on this. Now if you are paying cash for the machine upfront that can be a different situation but still not a solid exit strategy. Machines lose value the minute you purchase them, whether you use them or not. Hours, usage and wear only speed up this depreciation in value. If you are depending on a machine with a note as an exit strategy just remember when you really need to sell it there will be no buyers who will pay what it's worth - Murphy's Law. You could be in the situation where the sales price is less than the loan owed. Same with a paid for machine if you really need to move it, you will see your hard-earned money leaving on the trailer with the machine. As far as no one wanting to hire you if you don't have any equipment, new customers of yours don't what you have or don't have, this is where your knowledge and salesmanship come in to get you in the door. This is a much harder trait to develop and way more important to the success of your venture than buying a piece of equipment. Many of my customers (GC's) don't know what kind of equipment I have in my stable and don't care - past projects completed, appropriate business licenses and the ability to sell my company is why I land projects. When I sign a contract I have to complete the job within time and to specifications. They don't care if I rent, use a shovel or sub it out - as long as it's done on time and to the quality standards spelled out in the project manual. They don't care what I use or how I do it because it's my ass on the line to produce at the amount stated in the contract. Concentrate on your business - sales first, signing contracts and completing the work to your customers satisfaction, everything else will come after. Machines are great to own and I have one of the worst cases of "yellow iron fever", I would spend all my money on iron but my experiences have taught me otherwise.
Couldnt agree with that one more. Im not in that business but it sure seems around my area there are a ton of lawn care/ landscapers/ snow removal guys around. You really need to take a step back before you do anything and: 1) Figure out exactly what scope of work you want to specialize in.... maybe all the above i mentioned.... 2) Determine if there is any money to be made in your location/ demographic area. That is a subjective statement i understand but you need at least a general outline if this is feasible. 3) Rent what you need for maybe the first season to get a feel for what type of equipment works best for your situation. This one is an opinion, the first two are facts, you are asking for trouble if you dont answer these questions and get a positive answer. There is a huge learning curve with any new business or learning any construction trade and i firmly believe that if you have to go into any signifigant debt to get that shiny new equipment than you are exposing yourself to some unnecessary risk that you could avoid by being patient and renting what you need until you can get your feet under you....... Never know, you might get started in the business and decide after the first year that you really hate whatever kind of work you got yourself into. Good Luck
Thanks guys, you lot are totally right and it's just highlighted my naivety, but I suppose that would be expected and that's one of the reasons I decided to use this forum, to gain an insight from people with more more experience and knowledge than me. In terms of available work and competitors, I have done a fair amount of research in my area. There are a few other landscaping and fencing companies in the area, as well as a guy who offers garden services. I also know a bloke who owns a plant hire company. However, the area I'm in is a pretty rural area, just a small town surrounded by lots of villages and farms, lots of the houses in the more rural areas also have lots of garden space. Also, my town is quite image concious and often wins awards for its flower displays etc. I'm looking to offer a garden makeover service, a complete revamp/re-design. I quite enjoy designing too so would like to try that out. I will take your advice if I do start this up, and I won't buy my own machines for some time. What sort of tools would you recommend for a start-up though? A friend of mine who's a gardener gave me a rough list of things he thought might be useful (tools and light power tools etc) but I'm plenty of you will have other ideas or advice. What sort of vehicle would you recommend too? From the start I was thinking Land Rover Defender pickup, because I can get a used one relatively cheap in my area, and they seem reliable and well-built, with a high towing capacity and space for tools. If I was occasionally hiring machines would it be worth having my own trailer, or hiring that too? Thanks for all the advice by the way.
Would you guys recommend this whole garden revamp idea? So in most cases this would include some kind of grounds construction, in order to shape and level the land, then groundcare, turfing etc. Also, constructing patio and decking, fencing and installing ponds and water features. I am also keen to look into the design part. After reading back my initial starting comment, I don't think that I made it particularly clear what I wanted to do. In fact, I'm not even sure 'landscaping' is the right term? Possibly hard landscaping? Do you think this is too ambitious, bear in mind I'm not jumping straight into it and I'll be working with others for a while before learning hopefully? Honest opinions appreciated
I think you are on to something. If you love what you do for a living, you never really have to go to work - keen advice I was given years ago and luckily I found a profession I do love and makes me a living. I have a friend of mine in the Hill Country of Texas that has done very well providing landscaping and hardscaping services to wealthy people who buy weekend "ranches". He enjoys what he does, makes a good living and is good at it. Best of luck and keep us posted!:thumbsup
ok thank you, so do you think that the whole garden/grounds revamp thing is a good idea? As far as I know, and I do know a fair few people and have done some research in my area, there isn't anyone who offers this exact service. What sort of tools and equipment would you be looking at for a start up?
Have you considered one multipurpose machine like Gallmac?!?
Excellent advice here!