Hello, I’ve got a 1975 IH 175C that needs to have a track split to replace the seals for the track adjuster. This has the pinned master link not the alligator style. Also there are no retaining pins in this master link. I’ve been told it’s likely the pin will be ruined as it comes out and I should have a new one on hand; however, I’m not having any luck finding a new or aftermarket replacement. I’m going to get help from a buddy who was a former Deere construction mechanic. We do not have a track press and it’ll be the heat and beat process which he said may likely turn into torching the pin out. Those who have experience with this, do you have any suggestions on replacing the pin with something from a different model that will fit? Or suggestions on making sure it isn’t damaged? The guys at Blue Ridge tractor parts said a machine shop could just build a new pin but this will leave the machine down for awhile and I’d like it to be a quick job. Thank you Also, if a new pin does need to be machined, what type of steel should it be made out of?
Here is an option that has worked for me on several machines lacking a master link. Both sides of my TD20B have this and makes for a low wear in outer panel and easily removable master pin. I pushed them out and polished them to a slip fit. Leave the bolt loose With a lock or double nut for movement as welding or hard secured will break.
I don't know who's tracks are on it but we used to knock them out all the time with a rose budd and a sixteen pound hammer. They are nowhere near as type as a Cat brand master link. You do need a good drift pin and someone to hold it while it is being slammed. We used to weld a chuck of cable to the pin to reduce the shock on our hands from a mis-hit.
Or you could just cut the links vertically through the stud between the pins. Sounds redneck, I know, but I’ve done it plenty of times on tractors up to HD16 size and never had a problem. To rejoin, vee off the ends, bolt the track plate back on to realign and weld up. Saves all the drama with loose master pins.
I haven't had a master pin yet that I haven't been able to match up at an aftermarket undercarriage joint. I quit heating and beating on a $20 pin years ago. I blow both ends out about an inch deep and knock them out with a 4 lb hammer and a drift punch. Takes less than 5 minutes in most cases.
Thanks guys! Also what are your opinions on blocking the idler out to the tensioned position with some sort of steel welded in there for a short term (May turn into a long term fix)? The pictures are to see the sagged side vs the tensioned side.
First, it's not worth the risk of damage to the internal parts of the final drives. Second, it's not a big job to reseal the track adjuster cylinders.
Finding someone with a pin press to have Unpin your rails is a better choice, if really have to destroy that pin find a used set of rails and cut the ears away from track pins then have a machine shop machine/grind them to Master Pin dimension as to use conventional steels is asking for a soft pin to fail.
Something like this may be useful
Going to have to use as a pin punch and hit it with something more substantial. Took my own crawler master pins out, took some choice words and effort on a twenty pound sledge, welded a guide under a track shoe to the link for a drift pin and set to flailing it like a b*****d step child. If think may end up performing again, there are some pin drive set ups for Sledge that work better than what I had, usually clamp into link and on shoe with the drift Captured and maintained in a ready to flail position. WTC makes the one I have seen used. https://www.wtcmachinery.com/produc...able-track-presses/hfpp-hands-free-pin-pusher
Before you split the track measure the chain wear. Worn out tracks can cause the the adjuster ram to over extend then the seal fails. If the chains are worn remove a link when you split the track then rejoin. Being careful about the way you go about it you should gain 1 pin.
Thanks for all the reply’s guys! We’ll try to get it out with heating and beating first. If that doesn’t work I’ll look into a track press. I went to high school with another guy who is a local Cat mechanic who may be able to over some assistance. The guy who has offered to help has a TD-15C that he replaced the rails/sprockets on but his were alligator style masters. We’ll try to measure the length somehow. I did try pumping it up 6 months ago or so but it just slowly went back in. But it didn’t look crazy stretched or pushed out.. That pin punch hammer looks neat except I may want to have my hands further away from the action!
Save head change handle.
I rebuilt a tensioner last year on my 1973 175C without splitting the track. We released the pressure on the adjuster, pushed the idler back to fully retracted position, blocked up one side of the machine, and derailed the track chain by running it forward and prying it off the idler with a digging iron. Reversed the process to reinstall.
I agree with Tones for checking track chain for wear. Your pic of the good side shows the idler at about the end of its travel. If everything else is pretty good- shortening by a link will get you a few more miles.
The idler support blocks are not touching the end plates yet so you likely won't be able to pull a link. You can pull those plates as the ends of the track frames and run until the front end of the support block sticks out about a half an inch. Then you can pull a link. If it is International Harvester track heat the pin boss to red hot on both sides with a rose bud and then just knock the pin out. If it is some other manufacturer you will likely have better luck burning the pin and getting a new one to reinstall. You are better off that way anyway because the master pins are the only support on the chain on that link. They wear like crazy. On the rest of the links the bushings lock into the mating link and help support the chain.
This kind of punch would work. https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/chisels-punches/wire-rope-punches https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/wire-rope-punches/wire-rope-punch-34-inch
It's the first time I have seen the R/H side track ( dam puter) To me that sprocket looks better than 75% worn so please refer back to my earlier post.
Will do!
Can’t shave with it yet
After reading Tones' remark I figured I had better go back and look at the photo a little more carefully. After reviewing the photo I'd pretty much bet that a link has already been removed from that track. The sprockets are more that 100% worn. That tells me that the track bushings are cracking up or probably already worn through. The bottom roller flanges are riding on the track pin bosses which means the roller and track combination wear is over 100%. I think I see a leaking roller in the middle of the right side track frame. Really you are on borrowed time and the alarm is just about to start ringing. Count how many links are in each track and maybe someone on here can tell you if a link is already gone.
Two specs on 175C, first one is a gimme not gonna find anything 7.0 pitch, 39L, Second was more common 7.5p and likely not going to find pieces, 37L except maybe someone down unda still has access. My Allis uses the same rails in 7.0, been obsolete non existent for two decades at least. Many with 7.0 are swapping to Cat 6.91 and dealing with shot segments. Takes some amount of Imagineering to fit them.
BTW, counted 36 pins on the photo, I believe this one is done.
Well that’s not what I wanted to hear fellas. We got a pretty good deal on the machine and it has worked well so far. Hopefully even though they are well worn, we can get it tightened up and last a while. It won’t get to many hours on it but maybe I should keep my eyes out for a junk machine with a better undercarriage. I don’t really want to spend $10k on new rails and sprockets.
No longer available at any price is the problem
On the 175C, we received an undercarriage quote a couple of years ago from a company called "AMS". See attached quote......
What do you mean by 7.0 or 7.5 pitch? Is one link 7 or 7.5” pin to pin In the parts book it lists the severe suspension undercarriage as the 37 link unit so I guess that’s what I have just so I know. I did some googling and 37 link rails seem to be available but your saying it’s a different pitch?
Pitch is the distance between pin center to pin center. There might be 37 links but the distance between pin centers may be different plus you have to worry about the pattern for the bolt holes on the pads being the same if you don't want to have to buy all new pads as well.
Need to measure yours, with the rails snugged up, pick Any pin, pick an edge front or rear as the track lays, measure from there to the Fifth pin away in either direction, but at same location of the measure point first pin where will be close to 28 or 30", divide that number by four. Tells you if have 7.0 or 7.5. Will need segments for that same arrangement and may as well inspect all the rollers, Upper and lower to your service manual. 7.5 pitch max dimension for 100% worn is around 7.620, for 7 pitch 7.120. What was handy of the IHC/Dresser units was could update from 7 pitch to 7.5 with change of segments.
There maybe another option to replacing the chains. Just replace the pins and bushes. Back in the day those rails would be rebuilt so it can be done. It was a good place for a newbie to learn to weld.
Have been a few from the Land Down Under spoke of submerged arc weld repaired links, was always cheaper to Buy rails here!!
And now it's Back to the Future. In '67 I worked for a farmer who rebuilt all the undercarriage of his TD6 using a PTO driven Lincoln arc welder. By all I mean idlers, top and bottom rollers, sprockets and rails. Part of the tool box equipment that was supplied with the tractor was a template of all the undercarriage components. I don't know if it was cheaper or not to buy new chains but the lead time to get them was counted in Months
Seen it happen but there is limitations, can build up running surfaces, can build up rollers and idlers, can even weld in repair inserts or refill worn sprockets. HOWEVER, if Pins and Bushing are shot while NLA then you have nothing. Also need a Track pin press to separate ALL the links to roll pins and bushings if anything remaining, that is almost as labor costly as replacement rails now.
But the thing is, if parts are no longer available then rebuilding is the only option and to my mind it's a dam shame to destroy what may be a good machine because some new parts aren't around
I thought I had seen this on the antique caterpillar forum. I’ve also got a Cat D79G so I’ve spent some time looking around over there.
Step 2a and b looks like a good idea and much faster than welding. I have seen outfits weld a rolled band onto rollers and idlers with good success
That stuff was all marginal at best when labor was cheap and machines could be down for months. If the bushings are worn through they will bust up just pushing the pins out. In order to press the steel in between the sprocket teeth it has to be soft which might last a few hundred hours at best if it doesn't snap off when crushed in a hard reverse pull. Even now welding rollers is a thing of the past but you can get the front idlers redone. Last time I had anything to do with that, it only worked on D9 and larger tractors. The best option I can see for the tractor used pieces or find another brand of components close and know that it won't be optimum but you will be able to use the machine. Keep in mind undercarriage is only one possible issue. The condition of the engine, transmission and drive train could also make the machine useless the day after you spend a bunch of money on undercarriage. Better to run it as long as you can and spend as little as possible till someone else comes along with a need and little money that might try to steal a few more hours of operation.
You can buy weld on sprocket rims that weren't available in the past. If you can find a decent used more popular undercarriage that is close but has a different pitch, the sprocket rims may be available and could be welded to the existing sprocket hubs. It's a lot of work but pads could be re-drilled to fit other rails. A mag drill with an annular cutter would be the best option for drilling the pads. Would have to look at an undercarriage application book to see if there is something close that is more common.
One other thing that should be considered is whether the machine is the main money earner or a part timer ( hobby) A main earner then ditching it would be the order of the day.
Don’t know if this helps