I have a diesel ram 2500 pickup that can tow 20k, a 10k cat 299d2 on mountain property 50 miles from my home, a 2 acre property next door to my home we just bought that needs work, and a nephew who drives tractor trailers for a regional trucking company. It costs me $600 each way to move the ctl between home and mountain with a local hauler, as I have a basic license. Never thought I would want to move it between properties so much before. Also, I have 6 grown nearby children using my 7k utility trailer and leaving it full instead of taking it to the dump. My thought is to get a 14k dump trailer for my nephew to haul the loader between properties with my truck on county roads. I want the extended family to be able to take light loads to the dump without a fine, as we would never approach 6k for the trailer or 26k for the rig. Is this advisable?
Not real familiar with CA but, If your under 26K gross (in KY) no one will pay any attention to you. Many folks around here load their ctl or other in dump trailer and haul it
Any trailer over 10,000 in California requires a CDL.
Wow and dang
I know. I have a 26,000 gooseneck and a 12,000 lb dump trailer that I only use for my own stuff and I have to have a class A.
Thank you for that. I guess I rent an equipment trailer for my nephew to tow the loader then.
Maybe the next question is how much does it cost it CA to get a CDL?
15 days of private commercial truck driving school for a certificate to be able to take the test. Maybe I could convert a class A diesel motorhome that teenagers are allowed to drive into a disguised toy hauler.
Made me think of the movie Stripes. *Urban Assault Vehicle*
You grow christmas trees on the mountain property? JUST NOD YOUR HEAD YES You grow on the new 2 acre parcel? MORE NODDING OF THE HEAD HERE Section 12804.9(b)(3)(G) CVC allows the operation of a vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating or GVWR of 26,000 pounds or less, regardless of trailer weight, with a Class C DL by farmers or ranchers and their employees; or instructors credentialed in agriculture as part of an instructional program exclusively in the conduct of not-for-hire agricultural operations. This statute allows towing by specified persons for agricultural operations exclusively and is not valid for towing recreational-use trailers exceeding 10,000 pounds. https://www.chp.ca.gov/CommercialVe... License Requirements for Towing Trailers.pdf It seems to me that becoming a farmer is the way to go in your case.
Green Acres is the place to be Farm livin is the life for me...
If we did mary jane, I could write off my guns on my taxes as business tools
3/4 ton pickup and a 14k trailer is legal without a CDL in most states, I can't see how people still live in California.
It's not important you see-it's important they don't see a way out, they have allot of baggage.
It's getting tougher every year to live here with the ever increasing regulations and taxes but it still beats most other states IMO. Move away from LA/or the Bay area and it's actually a great place to be. Farmers are exempt but you need to be legit... You could always hollow out the inside of a huge 5th wheel toy hauler and use that to transport ..ha! I heard that the 10k trailer rule goes out the window if the trailer has a bathroom ...?
Depending on what you are raising, it might still be possible, as predator control.....
I looked into getting a Washington State CDL a while back. According to the local CDL school in Kitsap County, about 50% of their enrollees are there because they're contesting a Class-A CDL ticket. More specifically, they got caught pulling a trailer + load exceeding 10k without a Class-A CDL. The WA State Highway Patrol commercial vehicle enforcement have portable scales and will weigh your trailer right on the side of the road during the traffic stop. Like anyone else who's familiar with moving equipment - the HWP usually knows if someone is over 10k before they even layout the scales. The ticket is 5 grand. And when contested in court, the standard agreement is that the judge will cut the fine in half - if the defendant obtains his/her Class-A CDL. The tuition cost is 4600. Add another 300 for hazmat endorsement (optional). Thus the ticket will ultimately cost you 7100 dollars. Note: These tuition fees were a few years ago. I'm sure costs have gone up. Who knows - maybe the ticket fines have gone up also? The GVRW rating of the truck is immaterial. The GVRW rating of the trailer is immaterial. The type of brakes on the vehicle/trailer are immaterial. Put quite simply, if you're caught pulling one pound over ten thousand without a Class-A CDL in Washington State, you'll get hit with a punishing CDL violation. What irritates me is that the State seems to cherry-pick which CDL rules they choose to enforce. For example, my M923 army truck weighs 23,000 pounds (picture attached). The minimum registration is 1.5 times the scale weight, rounded up to the nearest 2000 pound increment - which is 36,000 GVRW for my truck. That GVRW, plus the fact the truck has air brakes screams Class-B CDL. I have it in-writing from the State DOT that if I'm using my truck for non-commerce (aka private use only) that I'm not required to have a Class-B CDL, nor am I required to hit weigh stations. Never got stopped, never got a ticket. Another example: You can buy a 30-ton city bus at auction and register it as an RV in Washington State (aka private use) - no CDL required - not required to stop at train tracks. But if you move an 8000-pound tractor on a 2100-pound trailer over to a friend's house without a CDL - look out!
It's not a rule but on the second Thursday of each month you will get pulled over for wearing a hot rod T shirt and sun glasses on your head and no brake inspection card.
The other easy ticket in WA State is abuse of collector vehicle license plates (essentially zero annual registration with collector plates). The rules state you may occasionally drive the vehicle - e.g. in parades, to and from car shows, or for occasional routine maintenance only. Use as a daily-river is specifically prohibited. Example - old VW Bug with WA collector plates is seen by cop speed-trapping cars on Monday morning. Sees it again Tuesday morning. Sees it again on Friday morning. Driver gets 1000 dollar ticket for abuse of collector plates. Example - old pickup truck with collector plates. Unlike the VW Bug, this driver follows the rules - only occasionally driven in the summer months - parades, car shows, etc. Dude drives the truck to Home Depot on a nice summer day and purchases a few 2x4s and a sheet of plywood. Cop sees the plywood and 2x4s in the truck with collector plates. The driver receives 1000 dollar ticket for abuse of collector plates. (Per the State, any payload - even groceries - is considered normal use requiring registration) It would appear that Washington State is rapidly turning into New-California . . .
A 1000 miles a year with collector plates. Now these folks knew what the rules were when they bought those plates, the county auditors office explains it when buying plates. I see people with collector plates on a 1980 bronco-beat to hell-it's a collector piece alright. If they get caught they get what they deserve.
I applaud anyone sticking it to the government, property taxes are theft
KY has antique plates which cost $56 and is good forever, no need to renew. Can be put on any vehicle 25 yr or older
I had a collector plate on my truck when I lived in WA. Before that I was using trip permits to move it around. Joining the ATHS gives it a little bit more legitimacy. I also kept a copy of all the laws that pertained to it in the truck. That helps when they try to stick you with a violation. You can show them exactly what it says and why it doesn't pertain The law doesn't say that you can pick up a sheet of plywood and some 2x4s. "Used only infrequently for other purposes" would allow for that, just not on a regular basis
ATHS adds legitimacy? * Collector Vehicle specialty design plate | Washington State Department of Licensing www.dol.wa.gov
That's not the law. Look at the RCW: RCW 46.04.123 Nothing in the law says you can't carry a load
That's true to a short point, problem is it's stretching the law. The collector plate is just that a collector plate--no tonnage, that's where a person gets hung. And that's another law that needs to be refined to read explicitly what the plate is for, to stop end runs of the laws.
What do you mean by 'no tonnage'? My truck weighs 33,500 by itself. When I moved east I bought a 28' dry van and loaded it up with my stuff. It was perfectly legal for me to drive that from WA to KY without a CDL (although a boom truck pulling a dry van is goofy looking) WA actually refined the law in 2019 to specifically cover big trucks. They added a definition to RCW 46.25.010 for "Collector Truck" which meets the weight criteria of a commercial motor vehicle but isn't primarily used for commercial purposes There's no 'end run' or 'stretching the law'. It either follows the law or it doesn't
True - the RCW doesn't specifically address carrying a load. However, the Washington State DOL (who issues collector plates) does: "May not be used for commercial purposes or to carry a load ." Attempting to argue your point in Traffic Court using the RCW will probably just irritate the judge. Section 4 of RCW 46.18.220 lists acceptable uses for collector plates. Taking home a few bags of wood pellets, or some sheets of plywood, or even some groceries seems innocent enough, but it's not permitted without proper registration. I honestly believe that if the state had their way there'd be no such thing as collector plates (which would explain the 1000 dollar fine, and how easy the tickets are to write).
Another KY plate worth the look is Horse Council The HC plate has a 38K Lb limit for the horse racing folks. I put one on my single axle dump 26K limit, cost a lot less then a 26K plate. Can put it on almost anything (car, pickup, etc), but must be used for private use only. When I asked for it the first time I had to get the clearks office to look it up before they would let me have it.
What he means by tonnage - weigh stations don't exist to check if you've exceeded the manufacturer's GVRW rating. Weigh stations check to see if you've exceeded your authorized GVRW with the State (aka tonnage). Collector plates have a 0-tonnage ratting because the State is not getting paid. Whereas purchasing tabs for 36,000 GVRW will cost you about $400 per year, and 105,000 GVRW will cost you about $2,100 per year - and over 105,000 GVRW will put you into the trip-permit domain. The justification is that the heavier the vehicle, the more damage is done to the road - and we're told that license plate fees go direct towards repairing the roads. Interesting tidbit: license plates were originally "sold" to the public as a temporary stop-gap funding method to pay for WWI. And federal income taxes were "sold" to the public as temporary stopgap funding for WWII. Any day now (I can feel it drawing nearer), WWI and WWII will be deemed fully paid for, and these silly federal income taxes and state vehicle license fees will simply go away. . .
Thankyou for coming along and explaining---I get very tired of people reading between the lines to make it fit there lifestyle or need. * Try the Collector plate end run in Walla Walla County-the judge will ask the ******* to drop the plaintiff's paints so he can WHACK his pee pee then fine him a $1000. The collector plate end run has been tried here and failed miserably by those who tried.
With nothing to back that up it's worthless. The DOL simply cannot make up laws Sounds like what you guys are saying is that even though there's a definition for 'collector truck' in the RCW no such animal exists?
To make it simple--you can't buy tonnage and have it applied to a collector plate. And when it comes to handling those matters the Department of Licensing sets the criteria and rules----------------------- Under Vehicle requirements below. * https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicles-and...n-plates/collector-vehicle#Plate Requirements
I had WA collector plates on my army truck the last 2 years that I owned it (technically a commerical vehicle). The DOL issued me the plates, and specifically warned me not to haul anything within the truck, to include pulling a trailer. Perhaps I should've asked for collector truck plates. . . . ?
You can't 'buy tonnage' because you don't need to for a collector plate. It's covered RCW 46.25.010 (26) "Collector truck" means a vehicle that: ... (c) Is a vehicle that meets the weight criteria of subsection (6) of this section; Again, the DOL cannot make up laws. They do not set the criteria and rules, the RCW does. The DOL only allowed to administer those laws. Both they and WSP can put whatever they want on their websites, that doesn't make it law The addition of 'collector truck' to the RCW in 2019 didn't create a new class of vehicles. Before that addition it was legal to have a semi as a collector vehicle. Not sure how the clarification came about but I'd guess they got tired of the question coming up
If it was technically a commercial vehicle then you shouldn't have put collector plates on it The DOL doesn't know what they are talking about. Lots of guys over on steel soldiers have surplus army trailers they pull with their non-commercial deuce and a half There aren't collector truck plates, it's just the same collector vehicle plate that cars get. Only get one for the back, don't need anything on the front
I'm not going to argue this ****-****-****. Where do you think the revised code gets there rules, DOL and Weights/Measures DOT.
I don't care if you argue or not. I've owned my truck for over 10 years, spent and inordinate amount of time reading the RCW and WAC. Talked to, and had to straighten out, several people that worked for WA in some capacity or another and should have known better The RCW comes about from the LEGISLATURE. You know, the people you vote to represent you. Not some guy behind the desk at the DOL. It's bad enough having L&I trying to write laws over there, I can't imagine if you let DOL do it too
How all this ties into the OP... There is a ton of misinformation out there, sometimes coming from government workers and websites. You have to research the laws or have someone that knows them and can explain them
Yes here we have it folks the guy who personally straightened out the State of Washington single handedly. * It's nothing but skirting law, It's 2016 all over again. Not going to pay taxes, not going follow the laws, the people in the state work for me. * Where do you think the legislature gets it's Q's from for passing laws. When the need rises for new laws under DOT/DOL those are put forth in a bill for a new law.
Almost my bed time.
By following the letter of the law people are somehow skirting it? That makes absolutely no sense Have a good nights sleep. If you want to PM me your email address I'll send you the word document of all the pertinent laws. I left WA two years ago so I don't know if anything has changed
A collectors plate is just that-non commercial. Sorry I'm not going to go down that internet rabbit hole. If you had time to print all these laws you had too much time on your hands. * Another I have a file for.
I am puzzled by your comments RocketScott. For my M923 army truck I could pay 400 dollars per year putting on 36,000 GVRW registration (the minimum) and use it as a truck - hauling wood pellets, bringing home some crushed rock for the driveway, etc - which I did for years. Or I could get collector plates and pay nothing per year - with the understanding that I could no longer haul any loads (other than people within the 4th of July parade - which I did every year also). My army truck insurance was through Progressive. They gave me a farmer's policy, with the clear understanding that I was not a farmer. Progressive did not care whether or not I had collector plates or regular tabs - the insurance rates were the same. They did care however whether or not I was using the truck for commerce (delivery/work for profit) - which I never did. Thus they gave me a reduced-rate farm policy - based on how I was using the truck (they deemed me lower risk, based on my stated usage). My original plan when purchasing the truck was to also get a 15 ton lowboy, so I could transport my excavator. This would've required significantly more GVRW registration (upwards of 1000 dollars per year) and also my obtaining a Class-A CDL. Additionally, I would've no longer qualified for the farmer's insurance policy - I would've required full commercial truck insurance. Adding it all up, my having the ability to occasionally move my excavator over to a friend's house was going to cost me an applicable chunk of change. It is obvious to me why people charge so much to move equipment - the State is sucking them dry for the privilege of driving heavy-loads on the road. The idea that people can bypass these punishing annual registration fees, by simply obtaining collector plates, then continue to operate business as usual - does not pass the smell test. If that were the case there'd be a giant market for 30-year old vehicles - all driving around with collector plates. . .
You summed it up perfectly in your last paragraph and are absolutely correct. You cannot operate 'business as usual' with collector plates. I stopped framing houses years ago and rarely use my truck for anything that could be considered commercial The idiot behind the counter of the DOL told you not to pull a trailer because they don't know the law and oversimplified it. Same with the DOL website. You can still move things or pick things up. Can't be commercial and also can't be the primary reason you drive it. Random trips to get gravel are ok. That's why I said membership in the ATHS adds legitimacy. It shows you are involved in an organization for which the law was written and the primary reason you own it is as a collector I have insurance through Hagerty. They specialize in collector vehicles. No limits on how many miles I can drive or what I can do with it really. I've heard gulfway is good too but have no experience. Back when I was in construction I had a few different insurance companies. In my situation the boom only 'worked' on a jobsite. My contractor's insurance cover it there. Going down the road it was not commercial (as far as insurance goes) so I had somewhat basic auto policies. I had a really good insurance guy in Tacoma. He knew what a great deal it was for the insurance companies. I'd pay for a whole year of coverage but only have it on the road for maybe 2 weeks cumulative Meanwhile... grandpa can go buy a 50' diesel pusher and pull an equally long toy hauler right off the lot
If you don't care to understand 'all these laws' then you really have no leg to stand on. It's not an internet rabbit hole when I offer to spoon feed you the RCW Let me know what else you need for your file. Googling Rocket Scott should turn up most of it, except for that time I spent in a Turkish prison
I personally know a guy who received a 1000 dollar ticket while driving out of a swap meet parking lot - because he had an engine block in the back of his Ford pickup with collector plates. Apparently both the cop and the judge didn't have the proper understanding of the RCW. . . . . The cop was there to direct traffic for the swap meet. Like I said, collector plates are easy-picking for writing tickets. This discussion is at an impasse. Let's agree to disagree.
Can't really speculate about your friend. Was it a car show too? If the primary reason he went to the meet was to show his truck, then happened to buy a block he should have been good. If he just drove his collector vehicle to the show as regular transportation then bought a block I can maybe see a problem. Did he have another vehicle for transportation? Did he have another way of getting the block? Did he have an attorney argue his case? It's far too complex to just sum up with 'no loads' or 'drive it whenever'. You have to know exactly where the line is so you don't cross it. You also have to be able to articulate that to a cop or judge. Don't expect them to make your case for you It's only an impasse if you want it to be. There are laws that dictate what is acceptable, none of those are my opinion and very little is subjective. You either agree to the laws or you don't. So far neither of you has posted laws to back up what you are saying I don't live in WA anymore, but I did do a lot of research when I did. The stakes are high when it comes to things like this and it was worth the investment of time to me. You chose the route of paying a lot to drive what you wanted and I can't fault you for that. Something to be said for quick and easy even if it's not cheap. I chose to investment time in understanding how to get done what I needed to get done legally with the least involvement of the state. It's disappointing to see that not everyone shares that zeal
A prosecutor's dream.
I think about 99% of all paper work could be simplified . The first page of the Historic vehicle plate paper work should be a list of cost of fines . I have thought about getting them for my Jeep but there are to many what ifs its not worth it to me.
I have seven heavy trucks with antique plates installed. Never a problem in over 25 years of this but none of the trucks are worked. I can pull an empty semi trailer, or my drop deck empty without problems. It is allowed to occasionally operate a truck loaded for "testing" only, (their words) but surely wouldn't want to get caught doing this routinely. Antique plates are inexpensive and this allows them included on my shop garage keepers liability policy as active units. They are basically not covered for anything but comprehensive damage, (storage) until I call the agent informing him I'm going to drive one of them. This works well in my application, but I don't work any off of my property.
To try to change the conversation I watch a you tuber that has antique plates on a semi and he can drive it without a CDL and he has got some loads with it. I have no idea what laws he's following but it's in New York. I think when he gets loads he has a friend drive it so it's possible you can drive it unloaded without a CDL .
In Washington State, I may purchase a 10-yard dump truck and use it to haul 12 tons of crushed basalt rock home without a Class-B CDL. However the moment I deliver a load of rock to a friend's house, I'm engaged in commerce and I'm required to have a Class-B CDL. Per the State - delivering a load of rock to a friend's house "without payment" is considered compensation via personal favor (aka payment via the barter system - which really pisses the State off - because it's difficult for them to tax & regulate). And if I'm delivering a load of rock to a rental property that I own, it's considered commerce, because I'm using the property for profit - thus by extrapolation, I'm using the truck for profit also - thus CDL required. WA completely cherry-picks how CDL & Registration laws are enforced. It has absolutely nothing to do with the safety & well-being of the public, but rather everything to do with revenue generation . If you are making money (or preventing the State from collecting your money) - the State will get their 10% one way or another.
On the topic of CDL and trucks. Attached is a picture of my escape-from-Washington-State truck. Registered for 26,000 GVRW, private use, no DOT number, no CDL required. The truck weighs about 13,000 pounds, thus I can haul just under 13,000 pounds each trip. Now I just need to triple my paycheck (to compensate for the dollar being worth 30 cents), then I can move out of new-California (aka Washington State).
I hauled a backhoe and the first thing was getting 22K of tonnage. $100 well spent. I will use that tonnage to haul a lot of my house building materials before it expires next summer and I won't need so much after that. I'll pick a number I can work with and not exceed it.
Pew-some have been in the basement a little to long with grandpa.