we have a new road project going. the pipe going in is 60" rcp..dug with a 600 komatsu. the underground work is very hit&miss..work a couple days..off a week..at least its something
Nice pics! Keep 'em coming.
Nice pics, but O.S.H.A. would have a field day with that trench.
what is wrong with the trench? we had a signed engineer drawing that gave us the latitude to use 5' verticals and a 3/4-1 slope..i used 4' verticals and a 1-1 slope. the ground is a very tight clay mixture..very safe and very legal. if you look at my other posts you will see that i dig a very neat and legal ditch...(don't look at the post where i sunk the excavator...had a bad day)..lol
you ever notice there seems to be a safety guy on here 24/7!!!!!:falldownlaugh.....you cant post a picture on here with out a one showing up.... .....nice pics...................oh and nice trench looks good,
Unless you have midgets working for you, those trenches look at least 5 foot deep, and O.S.H.A. told us that the first bench has to be flat and two foot wide.
Of course like you said there could be a difference in soils, and the area your working in.
Well Reuben I believe in 100 percent safety. Operators have to look out for the workers in the trench. A cave in would be no laughing matter.
Nice work, I can't get over how nice and straight that trench is... I can never keep mine that straight. I can keep the bottoms perfect but they tend to do a little wiggle lol
Nice pics... It does appear you are diggin in some very tight material, and I think it's a bit of an optical illusion. You do have the top half of the trench sloped down and I think it's just hard to judge how far up on the laborers it is. And since we weren't there, and you were I think we're gonna have to believe you :drinkup
Found this on the OSHA website, http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10932 as an approved way to dig in certain types of soil. Looks exactly like Reddot's trench.
Beautiful trench! I usually dig from the top down, I see you pull your 1:1 after the trench is dug . . . interesting. That is straighter than any trench I have ever dug, are you just running one center paint line?
good to see ya back max:drinkup
that depiction is for type A soil...or for the most part....'rock"
What kind of road are you building in Livermore? Didn't know they were allowing anything new to be built out there any more . . .
I don't know what class you would call the soil in those pics.
Yeah, it is, but if the engineer that showed up on site determined the soils to be class A, then reddot is doing it by the book.
hey i agree 100% with ya... :thumbsup........WHEN on a job even if it is going to cost me down time and or money i take the extra step's to keep things SAFE...God knows our insurance is expensive for a reason. Reddot seems to always have his sh#% in line. I would hire him in a blink and I simply base that on what i have seen here on HEF...
Nice to see the teichert boys working. They are also on a job or two at Travis AFB, where I am right now. I have to back to the Donner job later this month, to due some more clearing for them.
maybe, but by whose book? if "ifs and buts, were candy and nuts"..... we'd have a very merry christmas...there is no engineer ...(2 of my brothers are civil's and P.E's)that would depict the soils in that pic as a type A....you can wish them to be, beg them to be....but when an osha inspector walks up, he will at best rate that a type B, and will remind the competent person that if they've not tested the soil to determine what soil type it is....that it will be considered a type C.
He did say he had a signed engineered drawing. And if a engineer says it is ok and has a design on site them it is allowed by OSHA rules. From OSHA: Read parts in bold. Option (4) - Design by a registered professional engineer. 1926.652(b)(4)(i) Sloping and benching systems not utilizing Option (1) or Option (2) or Option (3) under paragraph (b) of this section shall be approved by a registered professional engineer. 1926.652(b)(4)(ii) Designs shall be in written form and shall include at least the following: 1926.652(b)(4)(ii)(A) The magnitude of the slopes that were determined to be safe for the particular project; ..1926.652(b)(4)(ii)(B) 1926.652(b)(4)(ii)(B) The configurations that were determined to be safe for the particular project; 1926.652(b)(4)(ii)(C) The identity of the registered professional engineer approving the design. 1926.652(b)(4)(iii) At least one copy of the design shall be maintained at the jobsite while the slope is being constructed. After that time the design need not be at the jobsite, but a copy shall be made available to the Secretary upon request.
It is not that difficult to keep your trench straight if you are digging to grade using a laser.The beam will be in the center of the trench for reference and you make the same cut offset from the center based on the width of your bucket each time to duplicate what you had before and it will turn out the same every time.Not to take away from Reddots trenches because he does excellent work!! I would speculate that a pipe laser was being used there as I see no other means for reference.Ron G
hey mark,just curious do you go back and set the pipe?or is another machine setting it?and do the boys have to dig the bell holes by hand? i was just wondering we usually dig and lay as we go.
Very nice piece of trench work, as always :notworthy. Pulling footings I found it easy enough to keep straight with a centre line, but non were as long as that From memory of other posts I think Reddot works to a centre line but I do stand to be corrected either way a very nice piece of work :notworthy I am not going to go anywhere near soil clasifications, engineers or inspectors as I live on a completely different piece of rock a long way away. :drinkup
I see teichert's got some work .. my bud's been layed off from them for a year now.. he did find other work though.. mcm I think their a bridge co
ok,ok..the trench has a 4-41/2' vertical, then a tad flatter than a 1-1 slope. it is a engineered fill area, the soil is a class b..we get a engineer to sign off on all our jobs. this one allowed a 5' vertical and 3/4-1 slopes but i will rarely dig like that as : 1-my guys like the vertical at about their waist..thats where this one is..and 2-i'd always rather over dig just in case i do not dig benches like you see in the osha manual as a option other than sloping. that just seems ridiculous to me and to time consuming
i dig from the top down too!! what you see in the picture is probably most of my previous set. i dig about 3' out of the middle first then i start my slopes..i have found that if you have some of the center cut out the dirt will fall that way as you start your slopes and not bunch up on you on the outside of the ditch so much..kinda keeps things a little neater and as long as the extra dirt has a hole to fall in i find the crowd works a little easier i work off a inside track line
Vasco road heading north..a realignment
class b....yes, we tested it..we always do
thank you Reuben for the kind words
no pipe laser. just a trackline
Reddot that is one fine looking trench, it is a VERY straight trench. Good Job
I just meant I didn't think we should criticize until we knew whether you tested it or not. :drinkup
i did go back and lay it..no bell holes as it was not raised bell pipe.we only do the dig and lay if surroundings are tight. i worked for a company a couple years ago and that was the only way they did it..i prefer to dig first and then lay..gives the laborers time to get the grade right and i get in a rhythm digging and not have to break off to lay..i get more done that way but i've met guys that get as much or more done the other way
thanks for the compliment..i always try to do my best..after all its all we have..i cannot dig using a centerline:Banghead...only track line
thank you for the kind words
That is how I dig foundations as a rule,I walk the excavator back and forth with the inside of my inside track in line with the offsets and use that for my reference line.It sure beats painting or limeing the layout just to spill dirt on and lose anyway ) I usually mark my offsets,10',15' or whatever the surveyor sets it at and sometimes I will use a pretty rock or stick instead of paint for that.LOL.The only other measuring that I do would be for jogs etc or the transition from living area to the garage elevation for example.I generally dig my hatchways etc after I dig the main house unless it will be a problem reaching them after.Ron G
thanks for pointing these out to me, i stand corrected..... i've just had enough OSHA inspectors on my jobs to terrify the crap outta me when we think we're doing things the right/legit way. i was fined $7000 on a 7' deep excavation in virgin, beautiful clay soil 2 yrs ago because the top of our excavation was 6" too narrow... the egress ladder was 33' away from the pipelayer instead of the 25'....and my top person went to the porta john, took hard hat off, and hadn't put it back on when and walked back up to where i was talking to the osha guy. i asked my brothers about signing off on the form/type of excavation....they said they would design something based on soil types....BUT, would insist on a hold/harmless clause in that design were there to be some preexisting condition there they weren't aware of...you know...a CYA statement. you have to remember...OSHA is fine funded...typically they're going to find something.
I honestly feel that is the wrong way for inspectors to operate. I dont doubt that some operations and heroes deserve nothing more than to be beaten to within an inch of thier lives with the regulations for some of the stunts that get pulled. BUT An inspector should have enough experience and leeway to judge if an operation is being carried out in a proffessional and safe manner and act him/herself in a proffessional manner. Many of us react much better by being shown where we are going wrong and being educated than treated like morons and having punishing fines thrown at us. I suppose that is the problem with having an inspection regime that is funded by the fines they impose. Rule by fear doesnt do much in my book for respect or improvements in education. In this country our HSE work to educate. They will throw the book at you if its deserved.
Do you know what you are breathing? Bummer for me but I was on the original realignment of Vasco road when they first diverted it around Los Vaqueros back in '95 & '96. I had finished miles of slopes for Granite with an old open cab roach of a 6 . . . dusty as hell in 100+ heat. Then it turns out the sand we used from the Unimin quarry was so toxic that it started corroding the culverts before we even finished the job:Banghead. That job took some years off my life I'm afraid. I had tried dust masks and even wore my girlfriends panties tied like a bandana over my nose and mouth (worked better than a dust mask and she was a hottie):tong Once I found out about the toxic BS I told them to kiss my fat **s and went to work for Independent Const. and a crazy super by the name of Reggie Marks . . . . but that's a whole nutha story. . .
They are taking the bad curves out of Vasco Rd. Nice pictures. Several years ago the other part was done. Sierra Club got involved and would only allow 2 lanes with a climbing lane instead of 4 lanes. This really was to be the Delta Bay Freeway, but Sierra Club made Contra Costa & Alameda County not have a freeway at that time. This is just over the hill from me. And yes we have so many trench safety laws that OSHA is real happy. Safety is one thing good. Fines to make money is another thing. You need a compentent person. He makes the call on the slope and yes if it goes wrong he is the first that gets the blame, fines, go to jail etc. I am going to post all the licenses and certification we need to operate these days In the general industry.