paving season is coming soon along with a lot more trucking and I want to add another dump truck I got a triaxle so I can be part of the paving jobs ( local company only allows triaxles and up ) but Im having problems deciding if I want to to and buy a used quad or a triaxle. anyone got any pro and cons of having each besides carry more but more expensive to keep up and price.
fwiw if you haul by ton might be worth the extra axle but by the hour not so much
the paving jobs are by the ton but beyond that I do hourly but even then when I do go for paving jobs is when nothing else is going on which due to the virus that's really about all we are doing is trucking and doing a few dumpster repair welds for a local company
Your wear and tear goes way up with every pusher you add. Going down the road the with the wheels down they drive nice. Less weight on the steer. They will eat tires compared to your tandem or tri. Off road with the wheels up they are hard on frames from twisting and they get stucker faster. Hauling blacktop is a easy gig. If ittl work everyday its worth it.
it wont work everyday doing blacktop but I do a lot of driveway repair so even having a 2nd truck will make those jobs easier
Depends on your job sites and roads you drive to get there. If you spend much time with the drop axles lifted, it does stress the frame and stock axles more. I see the guys at the quarry with their axles up and you really see frame twist on the rough bits. There are sharp turns to get onto the scales so they keep them up. But if you're mostly on pavement with them extra axles dropped, my understanding is that it's all gravy and you get your investment back soon. That said, it's usually the big outfits that run the fancy super dumps. Us indy guys are usually just tandem, maybe one drop axle added. We have extra spread rear drops around here in TX due to bridge rules. Looks really funny but heck, it works.
i think im go with another tri I found a decent price for one the quads are a little to high for me right now
Funny you guys call them tri, because in Texas we call them tandem. I guess we just ignore the steer axle Calling them triple makes more sense. In France were I started trucking, they describe trucks by total axles x drive axles. The dream dump truck in France was 2 steer axles, 2 drive axles. Everybody wanted one. Don't see many of those in TX.
This thread got my attention because I used to drive dump trucks hauling gravel and asphalt. After reading I'm curious of the terminology used, I'm not sure I'm thinking the same thing as being stated. In my area the number of axles behind the cab is how it's defined, a ten wheeler is a tandem, a ten wheeler with a single lift axle we refer to as a tri-axle and a quad would have two lift axles. How does this compare to what is being discussed here?
They take an acre to turn...
Again the local company here uses tandem pushers on tandem dumps single steer for their typical machines. Still only set 20-22 t on a unit and only use the drops for road operations. Bigger box on truck reduces the spill over for a load under tarp and no he does not prefer the drivers overload. Once get to jobsite axles come up, stay up until back to quarry/dig site. They have also gone to taller/shorter, square side dump trailers with tandem push axles for hauling clay. Not having issues with overloaded on drives or trailer axles with that set up as far as portable scales, faster to load out as not having to watch gauges on front or rear fill outs to stay legal.
This is what we use in quebec and call them a 12 wheeler. On newer trucks the second steering axle lifts. Can hold 20T and cost 120$ hour. Here 10 wheelers only hold 15T and cost 110$ hour. Not many people will hire them. A two axle semi can hold 26T and costs 130$ hour, Three axle 140$, four axle 160$.
That's the terminology we used down south Steve. A tri-axle has 2 drives and a lift axle. We don't have any quad axle dumps that I know of in my area.
Took this this morning as paid a bill One pusher is just behind the fuel pump. These are his typical dump trucks, Last load delivered to us was last week of 2" base for at my barn feed lot entry, 20.64t , Tare for the Frt Lnr was 24500, gross was 65780
Texans have odd words for many things. I was trying to explain gravel and road base to a customer from Cali. And another from Maine. Lots of folks moving to Texas these days. Even the gravel and road base have different names. Just like our trucks. Here is a typical 8x4 as we call them in France. Don't count the wheels, it doesn't work that way. OTR rigs run mostly super singles, but construction rigs run duals like in the USA. Over the border in Switzerland we'd see lift axles, always surprised us, they're not authorized in France. At least not when I left in 2017.
Suprised you guys don't allow tridrives down there yet. Its to the point they almost outnumber tandems up here on everything besides lugging a van around.
Pennsylvania maxes out at 72380 for a single unit truck. Due to the bridge law, (inner and outer) a tri-axle (tandem drive with a lift and steer axle) is the cheapest way to get it. To go to 80k, you have to go to a truck and trailer. The tandems on the truck and trailer are allowed 36k and I think the steer is allowed 20k. This is of course all dependent on 100lb/in of tire width. I'm always surprised at how little truckers understand why the specs are the way they are and that as weight goes up, the damage done to the road is not linear, but exponential.
There's a macho thing about overloading. I'm macho myself, but overloading hurts my rigs. And the road. I'll take a couple days off work when my own (long, private, dirt) road is too wet, just to spare it the load damage. The county official who maintains our roads is a friend. I see overloaded guys and just smh.
Agreed. In some cases like concrete trucks going to tandem tri-drives. Anytime I see those trucks with lift axles I think *** were they smoking? A tri-drive is a million times better truck in everyway. Never mind all the damage the lift axle trucks would cause anytime it's loaded and axles are lifted.
Not if you get one like post #15. It'll turn just as tight as a 3-axle truck
see im wondering how well something like that would turn because the tri-axle certain turns its a pain
Most of our trucks aren't that short, because the bridge formula means a longer wheelbase truck, for more capacity. Then in addition to the longer wheel base, they put 425's up on the steers for the 20,000lbs axle, and then between the long wheelbase and the wide tires they really don't steer well. I have a couple cranes with tandem steer, and I really like them, they really help turning radius.
the quads are more popular around here even the quint trucks are getting popular even a few 6 axel ones. tandems are mostly used for small companies that wanna do their own hauling so for some reason I wanted to be the odd man out and went with a tri axel.
It's getting pretty silly actually, city streets, county roads and highways,freeways that were built years ago were not meant for this concentrated weight. So every one can be total axle happy It should be mandatory that a dump truck have no less that 12 axles, It just isn't a dump truck if it isn't grossing 150,000 without a pup.
A local outfit has 2 twinsteers with tandems and 2 lift axles in between and a drop arm axle on the rear. WHY? By the way, that's 136 grease fittings from front to rear just on the axles and brakes.
Exactly RZ, I remember years ago when the GVW was 68,000 on a semi. Then 72,000 then 76,000 then 80,000 then 98,000 then 101,000 the 105,500. When it reached the 98,000 mark I-90, I-5, 18, I-82 started to deteriorate twice as fast. What always got me was you would here a driver say {Man that I-90 is getting rough, and he is driving a rig at 105. The boss finally figured out his trucks that gross 80 make a bunch more profit that the others at 99. Gayle and I just laugh.
Yeah, bridge formula has a lot to answer for. In the UK (and probably most of Europe as well) that Mercedes in post #15 would be rated at 70,500 pounds GVW (32 tonnes) with a wheelbase around 17ft. Useful payload would probably be close to the 20-tonne mark.
You couldn't cross most of the county bridges around here with that wagon. When this load below was moved they had to truss every county bridge and it almost didn't get approved .
True. The 2nd steer axle actually doesn't have to turn as tight as the front one. If you keep the lockers all open, she turns tight.
I've only seen quads for the past two years on new trucks and they've pretty much gone from dual wheels on the pusher axle(s) to super singles with passive steering. I think it might be required by the state. I drove dumps in the early 80s and the weight laws were pretty lax. Companies were expected to pay their "dues" and would have a couple trucks per month stopped and weighed. There was a flat fine of $200 and they'd get you for consecutive axle weight. I regularly hauled 21 tons of asphalt on a ten wheeler and would gross around 65,000. They changed the weight laws and fines to where the fine was by the pound overweight. I heard stories of guys who would just walk away from their truck be cause the fine was more than the truck was worth. That's when we started to see tri-axles and more recently quads.
if you are asking how tight it will turn then that truck is not the best but it is a older design. The newer ones are pretty impressive. They feel just like a long 10 wheeler.
ahhhh whats one of those even run price wise
The first few guys to start running tridrives with tridem pole trailers in BC made decent money. Then as more guys went to them the mills started cutting rates. The good old tandem truck/tandem pole trailer became extinct pretty quick once that happened.
just asked the boss man and he said a little over 200,000$ but thats canuck dollars. And to give you a idea on use right now a 2009 freightliner m2 112 with a 350hp Mercedes and 670 000 km is 77 000$. 04 freightliner columbia 460hp Mercedes 729 000km asking 56 000$
for the freightshakers a quad down here run about 160000 they about the cheapest here everything else be closer to 200000k for the quads and I think about 180000k for the tri-axle. I like the western stars more then anything like to find one of them used for a decent price
I could see that particularly in a cabover platform. My only exposure to that was in a Kenworth conventional... it was not my favorite ride.
We'd call that an 8 wheeler here, duals only count as one. If it was listed for sale or lease, it would be an 8x4. 8 wheels, 4 drivers. 8x4 and 6x4 are most common, although you see a lot of 10x4 now too
Personally I don't see the extra expense of a tri-drive over a tandem with lift axle (tri-axle) in my area. Here in AL a tri-axle can gross 85K on non-Interstate roads which is around a 25 ton payload. How tight of a turn could a tri-drive make with a 16' dump bed? The lift axle is raised when the truck turns at an intersection and while off road. Now these tri-axles cannot go via interstate HWY's loaded just secondary roads state and local roads.
Tridrives turn pretty decent when unlocked. I think we can gross about 30,500kg (approx 67k lbs). Liftable axles on trucks are 100% illegal in western Canada (you can have them installed but they better stay raised). Only real way to gross more on a tractor is to add another steer axle, add another drive axle or go with a twinsteer tridrive.
This is a typical KW tri-axle set up for my area. If I am hiring tri's out at $90 per hour some variant of this truck is what I expect to show up at the job. https://www.truckworx.com/inventory/specsheet_truckworx/?ID=16029033
Its interesting to see the methods used to acomplish the same task in other parts of the world. Even go 1 province west into BC and most of the dump trucks have a rock guard over the cab. In Alberta you typically just see a dump box with no raised front bulkhead and no roof guard.
Only $90/hr for a tri-axle? Hmm. Maybe thats normal, I haven't priced out someone else trucking material since I bought my own truck. My wife's cousin is getting $70/hr for a 6 yard, single axle truck right now and is swamped with work. He is looking at upgrading to a tri-axle, but is pretty happy with the money he is making so far with what he has.
nice and shinny hows your tandem holding up
I get about 100 an hour for mine
Rates, wages and profit margins all depend on on where you live and what your costs of doing business are which vary wildly. A lower rate in one region of the country may be more profitable at the end of the day than a higher rate in another region. I can get tri's for $85 but most dump truck companies are going to $90 which I can't argue with. I'm bidding jobs using the $90 per hr rate.
I've always wondered about the no cab guards on some Canadian dump trucks, just thought it looked strange to me as all our dumps have at least a 1/4 to 1/2 cab guard on dump beds. With some of the operators around here those drivers need one.. Thanks for asking catwelder, she has earned it's keep and paid for herself. We've been using it move the smaller equipment and on-site hauling. It's currently on a project that has around 3K yards to move onsite.
lovely truck though glad its paying for its self. you ever gonna do contract hauling jobs with it ?
Thanks CW. We'll keep her around for our own on-site dirt hauling. Since it only has a L10 Cummins, 4sp auto and heavy rears makes it a fantastic site truck but not so good on the road truck - IE slow as molasses in Janurary. I really don't have any interest in getting into the dump truck business for hire. In the future I may have a few dump trucks but they'll be for our own job use.
ahhhh well least it useful and still a pretty truck you got it from the DOT dint you ?
It was from a small city in North Alabama. They bought the truck from a city in Georgia. The truck was an original municipal spec with auto trans, heavy suspension, tractor package and underpowered L10.
Those city boys get paid by the hour, not the load, no need for big power, no need for a big hurry......
if my local dint use and abuse the hell out of our local trucks the macks they gonna trade soon be a good deal but i know what they put them through
tell my local that they send the newer trucks through the ringer and the newer backhoes and even the new 311 they bought
anyone got any experience with the older volvo trucks (1997) went and looked at a few trucks today and it stood out to me was a clean truck got a d12 Detroit in it