We are going to purchase a new track loader. Currently Cat and Case have brought us machines to try: 289D and TV380 respectively. Only checkmark in the plus column for the Case is 90 HP vs. 74 HP for the Cat. Both machines are brand new. My question for everyone is should I even keep looking? Is there anything a Deere, New Holland, Bobcat, or Kubota have over the Cat? Quite honestly I'm very disappointed in the Case. Hydraulics slow, aux control difficult to manage, terribly noisy, poor visibility due to door design just to name a few. This will be our first track loader so want to get the right one.
Just my opinion, but yes. Everyone has a preference for various reasons, there are pros and cons of every mfr, and your dealer can make a world of difference, but the overall CAT package is right at the top. I do suggest you take full advantage and get the options, especially the hi-flow and AMICS packages to use all the capabilities when using H/M tools. I'm sure others will have differing opinions - but only yours counts.
AMICS? Can you explain? Also will I ever regret not spending the extra for the 299? I have had a few guys explain it this way: It's not your only machine, you have two loaders and a 25 ton hoe, you don't need a 299. I would like to believe that considering the 299 is an extra $20,000.
I like Cat in my area, but everyone I know who has a Takeuchi raves about it. They might be worth a look.
What is your opinion on the 289/299 decision? Also what size Takeuchi? I suppose that depends.
I like my takeuchi's... never been in a cat. Heard horror stories of cat/asv mtl undercarriage rebuilds.
AMICS - Advanced Machine Info Control System - is on board control screen that allows you to select machine and loader speeds on the fly. For ground engaging tools - trenchers, tillers, planers, mulchers, etc. - you can set the machine speed at full throttle and joystick throw so you can keep high hydraulic flow to the tool, but reduce the flow to the drives. You can vary the ground speed on the fly without changing your machine speed joystick and loosing travel. You can also change the loader lift and dump speeds. I believe on the D's you can also program return to dig, dump angles, etc. - haven't had a chance to run a D yet. The 299 High flow will give you capability to run just about any tool available. I don't think you will regret buying it. Don't know what loaders you have, but if you need a powerful machine for various tool applications, I don't think you can do better. Cheaper - yes, but not better.
The MTL /ASV undercarriage (2x7 machines) is a much lighter duty track drive than the CTL drive on the 2x9 machines. We have one of each. The MTL is still on its original undercarriage and track after 10 years, as we have kept it in landscaping/ dirt applications and have not abused it. The CTL is the tank. 289 vs 299 - I went with the 289c2 as most of our work is multiple tools for 1-3 hrs at a time. If I was running hydro tools nonstop all day I would have gone with the 299 - didn't think I needed the additional power or cooling of the 299. So far I haven't. The 99 also had more emissions equipment on it due to the higher HP - and wasn't ready to deal with it at this time.
Is that a large color display up in top right corner of the cab? The machine we're demo-ing also has the camera that comes up on that screen automatically when reversing.
Yes. Don't know if D includes AMICS and camera as one package, but suspect it does. You should have selection buttons to access AMICS options.
My last point to ask about is will it hurt when I'm looking to trade if it doesn't have high flow, not to mention will I notice it in the normal (no attachment) operation? Only attachment we ever use is a grapple fork. Might (and I stress MIGHT) have a need to rent a hammer if I get a concrete removal job but never going to need one on day to day basis.
Probably won't hurt you not to have it on resale depending on your area. I'm actually amazed at the low number of hi-flow machines in this area. After having a HF machine for 6 yrs and several HF tools, I won't buy one now without HF. Even went out of area to get current machine as no HF close. I did recover cost of HF on prior machine sale as buyer was also needing HF capability. If you don't foresee need for HF in life of machine, you probably won't miss it - but you can't add it later if needed.
I'm sure I can ask my guy tomorrow but how much of an option is it usually? $5000? More?
No, a couple years ago it was about 3500.
I can't comment on your machine choices, I've been away from the business for about 5 years now. We've got an excellent Cat dealer locally, their dealer support after the sale can't be matched in my area. That was important to me when I was depending on the machine daily for income. Mine is a skid steer, no tracks. I suggested looking a Takeuchi because I have some friends around the country who own one and they all have been very pleased with them. If you don't have a dealer nearby then it's probably not a wise consideration. Dealer support always plays a major part in my decision on a machine of any type.
Yeah, I have wished I could run a TAK but I don't even know if there is a dealer in ND. So the guys you know, have they ran a Cat and a TAK side by side? Only reason I ask is we had the Case first, thought it was pretty good. Then the Cat showed up. It was like going from a UPS truck to a Peterbilt. I just never believed there would be that much difference between two brand new machines. Everyone keep in mind we don't own a CTL. This is just side by side comparison.
Did some research. Closest dealer in states: Minneapolis or Sioux Falls. Both 400+ miles away. Winnipeg has dealer but don't think I will be dealing with international parts orders. My gut tells me I won't be getting a TAK. Especially when Caterpillar is 60 miles away. To bring up my earlier question, should I try a Kubota, Bobcat, or Komatsu? Sure would like to hear from someone who has run them all.
I owned a Cat, have ran a Tak and now own a Kubota SVL90. My Cat dealer is horrible, the Tak dealer is too far away and I've been nothing but pleased with the Kubota. The newest Cat I have run was a 287C and I really disliked the electric controls, I have heard they can be adjusted by the dealer, but the one I ran had lots of lag time between the hand movements and actual movements of the hydraulics. The roll up door on the Kubota is fantastic, it runs smooth, and has a ton of space in the cab, the biggest complaints I have is the heat/AC vents are all on the left side, kinda strange, and the side windows need to be unbolted to clean. If my cat dealer was better I would have looked into a 289 or 299 CTL. Hope that helps, good luck with your purchase!
Thanks Tags. Sounds like I'm going to have to get a Kubota out here.
That's too bad the Takk dealer is so far away... One of our favorite track loaders to use. We only own wheeled deere skiddys, but do long term rentals on tracked machines and the Takk has been our preference!
I spent years with a 280 Deere. Monster of a skid. Sometimes wished wasn't quite so heavy but when building gravel pads could get it packed down as well as any packer. Only problem I ever had was I liked working in high, and it didn't have enough cooling. So why is everyone gaga over the TAKs? Is it like sitting in the chair at home? Both in sound and comfort? Are the hyd. perfection? What makes them the best?
I think the reason is this, they've been around the longest and "if" they are cared for correctly will last a long time. They have good power, large cabs, the new ones offer dual auxiliary hydraulics ( so you could run a tilt tach and a 4n1 without a diverter), and the roll up front door..Things I didn't like about em' were pretty minor, aux hydraulic flow can not be locked on in 2 positions, I think that the drive control is pilot and the loader control is electric (may be completely wrong on that though) and they are a bit crude inside. My purchase came down to the Tak and Kubota, and Kubota won because of better price, better financing and closer dealer.
I'm going to try and get a Kubota to try tomorrow. I'm sure that it will not be near as comfy inside as the Cat though. So if you had each dealer 10 miles away, identical service provided, where would you consider the price cut-off to be? Or would you never even look at the Cat?
I run nothing but CAT equipment because the CATvdealer in my area is the best around. If your CAT dealer is good and close to you My experience is your should stick with the dealer the best stands behind you and your equipment after the sale. Today's CTL 's are pretty good machines. It's the dealer that makes or breaks your owning experience. Nothing wrong with CAT, they build the baddest CTL in the land today. The 299 XHP and the 289D...my .02....Good Luck
Well the Kubota dealer is 160 miles away vs. 60 for Cat. We have the Cat in the yard right now. Its not an XPS though. Has everything else though.
If my Cat dealer had been better, I may have ended up with one. They were so bad that I doubt I'll ever own a Cat again....
Further proving my point that dealer is the most important factor when considering equipment ownership...my CAT dealer is the best around of all the equipment manufacturers , that's why I own nothing but CAT equipment....used to be Deere until they decided my hard earned dollars were not important to them. They soon learned just what a grave error they had made. I will never buy Deere anything again...
Have Deere and Cat one thing i don't like is the roll back on the Cat bucket.Deere has about twice the roll back that the Cat has.That's one of the big difference i don't like on my Cat CTL.
As far as the Tak i don'tlike the sharp been in the track at the rear idler,compared tot he more graual ben in the tracks on the Deere and Cat machine.Ride rought also witht he metal inplants in the tracks that the roller ride on.Makes for rought ride and the Deere and Cat doesn't have the metal inplants which i think give for a better ride ,plus metal inplants cause more wear on the rollers and idlers because of metal against metak.Where as Deere and Cat rollers and idlers just run on the traacks rubber.Never seen ruuber against metal wear more then when you put metal against metal. Like the Tak roll up window,but like the Yanmar motor better inthe older Tak, then the new Tak machine that has the Kubota
Well, we're hoping to have a Kubota to try by Thursday. Now the Cat salesman has really sharpened his pencil though when he has found out we are trying all of them. Came back today with $79,000 on a 2015 299D XHP FULLY LOADED. 0 hrs, coming directly from Cat. Not quite sure we can really consider anything else. They're talking $69,000 for the Kubota.
Take a look around your area and see what brand machines most excavation contractors are using, and I mean everything, not just the model you're looking at. It wouldn't hurt to talk with a few and ask how their relationship with the dealer is. It really is an important consideration
Thanks Steve. I have done some poking around and it seems like most guys are switching to Cat. However, that being said, I have heard of some disappointed with the service. We have had nothing but awesome service out of them with the Challenger and they let us have freight delivered there for no charge. But, there is a difference between getting work done on your dime vs. Theirs. Hopefully, if we go with Cat, we won't be looking at a Kubota when its time to replace because they have shown us their ugly side.
That's a great price on the 299XHP.....I would very strongly consider that deal.....the biggest , baddest CTL on the market presently. Great machines....
So, finally got somewhere with Kubota. They're going to bring a 90 up on Thurs. 0 hrs, $64,000 with high flow, hyd coupler, cab, air, heat. Sounds good, will it be enough to forget about the Cat?
Here is a video of a tl12 pulling a 299d backwards. The taks are little tanks. Cat has been behind the curve and is playing catch up. Is the 299d better? Only time and repairs will tell. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCcM1ffljs And of course here is another link.
Can't do Takeuchi. Closest dealer is 430 miles away. Would like to try one but just not feasible. By the way, have seen a video of a Kubota pushing a TAK backwards as well.
I looked all over for that video, no luck finding it. I do not think the cat is a bad choice. I do think it will be much more expensive to own and use if you keep it for the long term. I myself stick will the old school stuff. If I need a special computer to fix my tractor, I would rather not own it. I tend to repair my own equipment. I suppose if I were doing million dollar jobs and I could just drop it off and pay premium dealer repair prices, I might get a new cat. But I am not on that level. I have a tl150 now and if I could get a new one or a new cat, I would get a new tl150 but they are not sold now. I looked for almost two years to find my tl150. There are tons of tl150's with 5000 plus hours for sale that were used as rental machines. That speaks for itself. I also like the case 440ct series 3 machines. Good luck with your choice.
I see nothing wrong with the CASE machine. I don't have a TV380 but I do have an SV300 and a TR320 and I don't see any of the issues you did, but I guess that's why there are other machines to suit about every taste.
Well Shimmy , correct me if im wrong but you dealer is Bultler Machinery? I think they are a good company, but with the increase in their business due to the oil fields I think they have their hands full in the service dept. I know my cat service rep from here in Minnesota (Ziegler) makes routine trips out to the oil fields to help out in that respect. But Cat would be my pick just for the service factor.
Yes. Tomorrow we're going to try the Kubota and a T770 Bobcat side by side. Really wasn't considering the Bobcat but more than a few local guys said the new new cabs are pretty nice, so I checked specs. Was impressed enough to give them a shot. The 770 has more tip load than the Cat. Should make it pretty stable. Little less HP, but I think that will only come into play with the high flow attachments. We shall see tomorrow.
Can't wait to hear all the comments from everyone. We bought the Bobcat T770. Really liked the Kubota, but in the end the dealer made the difference.
Shimmy1, Congratulations on the new machine. I have never owned a new piece of iron. I know you know we are all dying to see some pics of the tractor. I have friends that use and love bobcat machine's. Give us some feed back as time goes on. I am guessing that the price was the deal maker? Whats the warranty on the machine? Tell us what made up your mind. I see you already have a 773, was it the controls being the same? Regards
In the infamous words of somebody, "Pictures or it didn't happen"... Congrats on the Bobcat...at least you got your purchase partly right....ha ha
Georgia, the Bobcat was actually about $4000 more. In the end, the cab and serviceability sold the Bobcat over the Kubota. When I asked the Kubota salesman where the oil filter was he couldn't find it. Then the Bobcat guy says that if my machine goes down, unless it's midnight, he will load one up and have it there in 2 hours (he's 60 miles away). He said he's done it several times, if I want the guys numbers he would give them to me so I could ask them myself. He showed up exactly when he said he would with the machine to run, the Kubota guy was 2½ hrs. late. Warranty is 3 yrs/3000 hrs. The T770 has joystick controls, this is what we wanted. We both prefer ISO pattern(like a Cat). Back to the cab. I've sat in and ran all of them, this new Bobcat design is absolutely perfect. I'm a big guy, 6'4", 270, I can get in and out without hitting my head, shoulders, whatever. That's one thing I really disliked about the Cat. The closed-in loader frame kinda makes it a pain to crawl in and out. As far as the controls go, there wasn't very much difference in the precision between the Bobcat and Kubota, Cat was a very distant second place. Just to jerky/unpredictable. The last thing I want to say is as of a week ago, I wasn't even considering Bobcat. I have never really liked them, main reasons that cabs have always felt to small, and I have never really cared for the hydraulics. I had one buddy though that has a S300 and had ran a M670 that just wouldn't let it go. Kept saying I had to get a Bobcat out and try it. When I checked specs and found out that the 770 actually had 700 lbs. more tip load than a 299 and less ground pressure, I figured we had better give them a chance, and here we are. I'll get some pics up tomorrow.
Hey PA. I know you prefer the Cat. I've always been a hater when it comes to Bobcat, but these new machines are unbelievable. The cab is EVERY bit as quiet and roomy as the 299. I know the HP is less, but I feel that will only come into play while running attachments, of which we do none. Only attachment we will run with any regularity is a screen bucket with grapple for trees. We also felt the $14,000 price premium was just too great. As far as reliability/longevity, we will find out.
New machine Here it is
Congrats on the new machine my friend. Looks sweet. I ran Bobcat equipment for a few decades before switching to CAT. My switch was based solely on poor dealer service on my equipment. Last one I had was a 870. Nice machine but really doesn't compare to my 299XHP's in terms of raw horsower and brute force. All other things considered are basically the same, interior, controls etc. the bobcat will provide you with many hours of trouble free service.. We use our machines pretty hard and the Bobcat unit were a royal pain in the ass to work on, didnt have a steel track option, couple that with a poor dealer and my experience deteriorated quickly... I'm sure for what you are describing this machine will be lightly used and work great for allot less money than the CAT...Good luck with your new toy..be safe
Looks awesome man. I hope you make a mint with it. I love fresh paint, I have been thinking of painting my tl150 woodland camo. I would be the only one around with one like that! I will put some zombie hunter stickers on with crossbones.. It will have a bobcat head on it with a set of cross hairs lined up! Just kidding good luck, thanks for the pics.