Hey everybody - Been a lurker for months now...as I've been tirelessly searching for a tracked steer....3000hrs or less...no leaks...22k or less. Basically...every time I land on "this is the one" and I go deeper on the pros and cons, there's always a horror (read: EXPENSIVE) repair story to the make and model I've landed on. Today's example: A 2007 CAT 278b with 2150 hrs on it...under 20k. I'm like - take my money. THEN I read all about the track issues that these can have...and I'm out again. Seriously, CAT? PLASTIC idler? Here's the issue - I'm just a homeowner who does epic stuff with machinery whenever I can. My wife and I got our hands on a totally destroyed property here in western MA...and I'll be handling the huge mess later this fall. I have an entire field stone foundation to move/turn into a retaining wall (some of the boulders are easily 800-1200lbs)...and then regrading the entire place - probably 3 tri-axles of loam - then handling the many HUGE trees that are either down or about to be. Later on, there'll be excavating work as I'm building two more structures on the joint...water and electrical trenching, and snow removal. It's an "everything" machine situation. I've rented both the 259d and 279d from our local equipment outfit. They rule so hard. I did insane **** with them...especially the 279. I even called them to ask advice and the one piece they gave me was "don't buy a Bobcat". So, basically where I'm landing is here: At my criteria...it sure seems like there's HIGH potential that you're buying someone else's soon-to-be headache. I think if I could buy in the 28-35k range, things would be different. But that's not happening. What do you guys think? I'm kind of leaning toward "keep renting and buy a ride-on steer" after the heavy lifting is done. I simply can't absorb a 5k repair in the first year I own this thing. 100% impossible.
If you can't absorb a 5k repair I would advise you absolutely do not buy 22k or less track loader. 22k doesn't get you much and there will be a high likelihood of repairs (IMO 75% or better) in the first year. $5000 will buy a bit of rental and you have much better control of what you spend.
What's a steer? We talking about beef?
Thanks, DBoy - yeah...I mean, that's pretty much what I've come to realize. The 75% chance thing feels pretty accurate. Renting gets me over the hump...and long term I need something with about 800-1000lb capacity with a grapple....snow plow...and the ability to trench.
A new 279D size machine is worth around $150000 in Canada, probably around $110000 US. Every hour of ownership costs at least $40 or more to be able to replace eventually. The amount you stated at $5000 could be fine the first year and have a $12000 bill the next year. No one ever knows, and unless you know how to fix and diagnose all yourself, better off renting with a fixed cost and no surprises. Don't imagine having the same as a $110000 machine for only $22000 or you are doing exactly that, IMAGINING. Hoping you can get it done with the least amount of headaches, and not spend every last nickel trying to fix a big hidden problem with nothing. Simon C
Thered be no nuts about it that way!
If you don't have the knowledge and desire to do your own maintenance and repairs you don't want to do anything other than rent and you certainly don't want to buy anything that's used no matter the time or the cost. Were you to acquire a used piece of equipment for free there is always the possibility of spending the cost of a new one if you have to count on paying someone else to make repairs with todays costs.
For this area, to find a un trashed tracked skid, that on its last legs, on hours, 18 to 25k is about the price average. It will be a gamble, that’s for sure. Now, consider a wheeled skid and you could do much better. If snow removal is in the mix, a tracked skid just sucks. Honestly, I think you need a backhoe and with your budget, you should be able to do pretty good. I would just be patient and ready to pay, when needed.
Considering what we've been told a backhoe is likely a good suggestion since they work well all around and tend to live linger with less issues.
Welcome to the Forums! Glad to have you. FWIW - When a CTL is reaching or reaches 3K hours I kick that machine into the replacement plan. Usually one can get 3K hours without a major breakdown on a CTL however after 3K is when the DPF, motors, etc. start to give way and need replacement. 3K hours on a previous rental machine would relate to 5-6K hours on a well cared for contractors machine. Food for thought.
A new Cat 265 (279D replacement) is on special now at my dealer for $95,955. Then add - tax, prep and all the things they say real fast at the end of a commercial. https://thompsontractor.com/cab-ctl-work-horse-special/ CTL's are like work trucks - there are 2 types. Worn completely out and brand new. Very few in between. When a business is looking at an asset that is $100K or less to purchase it is kept until "disposal". Disposal means many things to different companies however it does mean used up. More expensive iron lends itself to rebuilds and the like so business's keep them longer. CTL's just need to be traded before the drive motors go out like a truck needs to be traded before the transmission goes out. This is my philosophy anyway. YMMV.
For what you are doing I would also suggest an old Backhoe in your price range. Sure, the seat will be bad, tires cracked and bald, many hydraulic leaks, and items that don't work at all (think fuel gauge or something) or operate strangely (think a hydraulic movement). However, it may still run well enough to get many things done and you may be able to sell it for what you bought it for. Find one that someone like on this site has fixed it up a bit. Better than getting a backhoe though, I would look for a used mini excavator with a thumb, 4' wide bucket, 2' wide digging bucket and a 12" wide bucket. At your price it's a pretty good gamble it will get the basic job done. It may have some issues, but not likely a $5000 one. Look at a used Takeuchi TB135, TB240, Deere 35G, Kubota etc.
How much are you budgeting to spend a year on renting one? Maybe look into financing a newer/better machine with annual payments close to that figure? I have a Bobcat V519 telehandler, after owing this I would never buy another skid steer, this little telehandler can get into tighter areas, lift more, lift higher, you can get out of the cab with the loader up, it is vastly better. But I bought it new, was about 80k back when I bought it in 2019. I sold a 3300 Gehl skidsteer bought a old used Bobcat 5000lb telehandler with 19' reach because I needed to reach higher. That Bobcat had the brakes blow apart and contaminate the entire hydraulic system in the first 6 hours I owed it, the "company" I bought it from told me tough ****, so I traded it off fully disclosing the brake problem to a local dealer in a fit of rage on the new one they had in the lot. No regrets buying the one I have now. Those other guys can go pound sand though
I’m a similar type owner. For 20 or so years i’ve had a Kubota L39. These are very capable mini backhoes. Wonderful machine. 6-7 years ago i bought a very nice Takeuchi TL230. A first class machine w/full cab and 400 hrs. I thought it would be great for all kinds of stuff. More lift capacity, less ground pressure, etc. in the end i found i just didn’t use the Tl230 much. I’m mostly a one man show and rigging and lifting with the track loader is awkward and dangerous since there’s no safe way to get in and out of the machine with a load. It’s also slower moving over a distance. So i sold it. I suggest a backhoe and have a look at the Kubota l39 or similar.
I'm sure in you're scenario the little telehandler is perfect. I'm glad it's working for you. OP: If most of your work is load and carry a small tele like this could be a good choice. For the type of work you mentioned in your first post in this thread I would recommend against one. It will not hold up for the work you have in mind. We have 2 Bobcat TL519s. They're great for moving small items around at a higher speed than a skid steer. Anything else you do with them is a compromise. They're to small to do real tele work and not robust enough to replace a CTL. Also, and maybe it's just us, we've not had good luck with any Bobcat equipment purchased in the last 5 years. Any CTL for $22k is going to be an expensive machine unless you get really lucky... I say expensive because there's a real good chance you'll be spending big $ on parts and labor to keep it running. Not to mention the frustration of a machine breaking down mid project (Although on the above mentioned Bobcats we've almost come to expect it)... I'd recommend raising your budget and spending considerably more for a good used machine that's been inspected by a reliable mechanic not connected with the seller, looking for good financing on a new machine, or continue renting until you can afford a reliable CTL.
Those ASV tracked machines are absolutely hell to maintain once they have hours on them. CAT rental learned the hard way. Here they put tracks on their skid steers before they would rent out a 7 series Cat. Couldn't charge enough in rent to cover their own costs of upkeep. I agree, find a 1000 hour machine, and it will be more reliable and hold its value better when your done. Or rent as mentioned. Probably the safest way. You can rent exactly what you want be it an excavator for some portions and a CTL for others. It breaks, you make a phone call and let someone take care of it.
Well I haven't had any luck with Bobcat equipment purchased over the last 20 years. Good luck with that. Although things are slowing down here so there may be some johnny come lately contractors that need to dump iron.
Guys - this has all been AMAZING and incredibly valuable feedback...and pretty much directly supports my opinion that 22k just isn't going to buy anything that's reliable and won't have a 5k repair in the first year of ownership. I've been shopping since March....and every time I thought I "found the right one" I'd get on this forum...and other forums....and find real issues/red flags about the make and model I thought was a "good deal". Agreed with a few folks above: Waiting and buying in the 35k range is a better place to be. I can't go wheeled...wish I could. All the work that this machine will be doing is going to be in wooded areas...uneven ground...hilly...and muddy at time. Damn. The group consensus on a backhoe is VERY interesting! My buddy also suggested that as he bought a Kubota tractor/hoe a long time ago and regrets not just having a mini excavator. I could see that as a possibility. The tricky place I'm in is that on the short term - 2-3yrs - I'll be doing major **** on the property. Big boy stuff...that need the big boy machine. After that? Eh....back to the kiddie table. I do a lot of wood processing for my profession...and will need the ability to grapple and move large log sections...light grading, snow pushing....and basic land maintenance. It's a small chunk of the rock...1.5 acres, roughly, but has it all: hills, trees, wetlands, and two dirt driveways. Anyways, someone posted the best quote that pretty much summed up my thoughts as well: There are two kinds of skid steers - one that's been worked hard and on the brink of needing lots of repairs and brand new. Sounds about right. I love our local rental outfit...and their machines rule. I'm lucky that they're literally 20min from my property. Cheers, everyone.
You're only dealing with a 1.5 acre property? I don't care how out of shape it is, using the right equipment it wouldn't take over one day to completely clear. Guess how I know this. So, either rent or hire someone to do the job and you'll come out ahead money wise. JMHO.
I know exactly how you know this! Lol. More than a day, though. There are more than a dozen HUGE old growth dead standing or widow-makers to deal with. These are 100'+ cherry, maple, oak, and chestnuts. The bucking alone would take a day - and that's into 1000lb sections (most of these trees are 30+ in diamter). After that? The previous owner left us a pile of scrap metal...and all sorts of trash that's been buried in 25yrs of brush now. But I feel ya - if it was a basic brush hog, harley rake, chipper, roto-and-go...yeah, a day...two max with some re-grading. I think the tree work alone will run us close to 20k if we paid a company....so...yeah, I'm definitely going to take care of that myself.
And your better description of your needs even more makes me think you don't want a CTL. Where I am, woods, hills, mud, etc. I had a Case 450 Dozer it would go anywhere but the brakes were terrible and I'm in WV- not a good combo. Also I wanted something more versatile. So this is part of what got me thinking a CTL and I bought my Takeuchi. That sucker would get stuck everywhere. Soft muddy hilly ground forget it! And you mentioned snow pushing, dream on Alice! 4wd Backhoe! An excavator would be good too but no where near as versatile. And the Kubota L39 has a quick detach skid steer bucket. For mine I have the bucket, forks, and a grapple. Super versatile machine. Also a point I would like to add is that the L39 wasn't sold by the Kubota ag dealers. It was sold by the construction dealers. It's meant to be a mini backhoe that a utility company, municipality, etc, could send out with a 1 ton dump truck and a few guys and do what needs to be done. It's the most backhoe I've seen in a 7000 lb machine. Front bucket lift capacity is about a ton.
I'm into it! I'll start having a look-see at the market around here. Sounds incredible. Thanks-a-million!
35K? Too much I think if you can't handle 5K repairs. Look for something like this. Forget the Kubota Homeowner machine. Those our nice, but for light work. Allis Chalmers 715 Backhoe - $9,000 (Ashford/Eatonville) Runs good and always starts up easy. Has been stored in our equipment building the last 40+ years and very little use. Year early 1970 and approximately 5,000 hours. Best offer or part trade. John Deere 310 Backhoe - $23,000 (Vashon) 1991 John Deere 310 D Backhoe 4,144 hours with no leaks, no black smoke and starts on a dime Turbo 4-wheel drive extender hoe (Enclosed Cab) 13,600-pound weight total Purchased through John Deere dealership used. The Backhoe was a trade in from King County and had 1,100 hours when I purchased the Backhoe from John Deere. The back end is like brand new. I used this Backhoe to load materials at my dirt yard.
Sounds like he will definitely need 4 wheel drive and more than likely a rhumb, for the landfill.
Sounds to me like renting the largest dozer that has a root rake.....Can you get one for a D-9 ?
You could get a steel track loader in decent shape with a backhoe in the $25,000 range. If you were close I'm helping a friend put in a new starter, bleed the fuel system and then take the boom cylinder off to get resealed on the backhoe. It is a 1988 Cat 931C track loader with quick attach backhoe. It shows 6250 hours and has had the pins and bushings turned with I think new sprocket segments. I'm not sure about the rollers but the pin bosses aren't close to rubbing on the roller flanges. It is in very good condition and I'm jealous of the bolt on sprocket segments. My 931B has press on sprockets. Anyway I think it would bring $24 or $25,000cad. If I was in the market for another one I'd buy it. I wouldn't buy something like the Allis Chalmers backhoe above. Too rare and probably impossible to get some parts. I know a guy who recently bought a really clean 1978 JD 310 backhoe for $7500cad. Two wheel drive but looks 5 years old not over 40 years old. There's good machines and deals out there just have to be a little patient finding the right one.