I was wondering if it is nuts to think this could be a revenue producing machine? I know it wont be as competitive as a modern machine and I cannot charge as much. still it could be quite use full to my operation and frankly I have fallen in love with this series of grader. Most of what I do is farm work building roads and clearing land. The old farmers dont mind an older piece if there getting what they think is a good deal on hourly rate. Any thoughts?
The main question is, will the newest edition of Trimble GPS work on it? :tong Looks like a nice older machine.
batter have some thick gloves and tough hands to run it
sure plug in here. Hammer here. Apply correct amount of duct tape and wingo!
Why is that?
Those old all mechanical control machines were not too fondly referred to as "Knuckle busters", the dog clutches get worn and the levers pound on your hands. Of course after the learning curve it gets way better. The good news is those old CAT blades are heavy and the old big banger engine has torque for miles, that old dog will bull through piles and ridges some of the newer machines would just bounce on.
The old Cat blades are tough as hell and will give you an education while learning it. Unless there's a total idiot at the wheel they're almost bulletproof. The reason the dog clutches get worn is because idiots running it are too timid to fully engage them especially when trying to get some down pressure. Mike
What series/model is that one? I put about 200 profitable hours a year on an old mechanical cat 120 and charge just as much for it as my other machines. (Road maintenance around here runs $80-$90 an hour, I'm getting as much for my machine as the next guy with a Cat 140g or a Deere 770bh) A blade is a blade, if you can provide a service with that machine that's on par with the next guy try not to sell yourself to short, you still have oil, tires, cutting edges, and maintenance/repair costs. As long as you have some profitable work lined up, don't mind running it, and there isn't some major mechanical issue looming I'd say the old girl can still do what it was designed to do and make a dollar or two.
My issue with straight frames is you find yourself backing up forever trying to find a place to turn them around. I don't appreciate them enough to pay the same rate to watch them backing up for a mile or more to make another pass.
I grade ATV/Snowmobile trails that are on old railroad grades for the State of MN a few times a year with my 1952 Cat 212 grader. I have one trail that hits a narrow aTV bridge over a major river. Have to back up 1/2 mile and back in again to grade the other half. Lots of fun though and have done alright with an old machine. I do get paid by the mile, not the hour.
Looks to be a 3Uxxxx #112 and in pretty fair condition. Handy machine still capable of doing a days work.
What you just describes is why I like the older machines. Except for the knuckle busting LOL!
Actually it is a 6U274. Not sure what year that makes it?
Check again, 6U274 is not a good number.
Of course this may be engine serial number and not machine I dont know. But didnt engine and machine usually match?
Where are you reading the number. If it's on the engine it's a transplant from a 6U tractor. Look for the grader number. I believe it's on the LH side forward on the backbone where it dips down to the front wheels.
Are those the Soo Line trails around McGregor, Palisade, Hill City, etc?? I've always wondered who maintains them....
I dont know where thats from. Its a picture that the person selling it posted. I havent seen the machine yet as its a good days trip away from me. I am seriously thinking of going to look this weekend.
I grade the Gander Dancer from the Wisconsin Line by Superior thru Minnesota down to the St Croix River by Danville. WI. The Soo Line trail that runs from Moose Lake to Palisade and beyond are owned and maintained by the counties they pass thru. Most get graded once a year if lucky, many not at all. That being said, just today I was informed that the State Dept. of Revenue just pulled the fall funds from the trails money pot. I was to grade next week. Again they are stealing the money the ATVers paid in thru licenses and gas tax.
Don't you love how politicians pull those deals on people. Pass a law saying if you pay so much for this licence we will use it to support your off highway trials or safety training then once they get a big pot of your money steal it to fund some totally different pet project of theirs? Kind of like when they steal money that was in Social Securtty Fund to balance the budget then come along years later and say SS is going broke and will have to reduce benefits!
They started back in the Viet Nam war days, I heard they were pulling a Billion a month out to pay for the black ops in Laos and Cambodia. Fat lot of good that did. And "W" Bush standing there telling the citizens that the gubmint would probably never pay back the SS fund, because they had to pay the International lenders instead. Big deal.
Does anyone know the specs on this machine? Length and weight and height mostly?
#12 & 112 specs
Wow Thanks! That's a bigger wealth of information than I could have hoped for! When it says length OA 24'-11" does it mean this dimension?
Yes, look at the wheelbase in the specs.
I saw that and in my mind I figure the wheel base is measured like this. If the above picture is the OA length then there is a real good chance I can haul this thing on my 20 ton tag along trailer. it has a 20 foot deck and 5 foot dove tail.
Yup, O.A. is over all.
It looks like the 6U tag on the engine could be from a D4 dozer. Does anyone know what series engine this is and could it be from a D4 dozer? Still dont know what the machine serial number is. talked to the guy who owns it and he didnt seem to be capable of finding out. Still trying to put together cash in hand and get time to make a trip of 370 miles to go look at this machine.
Sorry should have included image of engine.
The 6U274 engine would be out of a 1947 narrow gauge D4
Thats kind of what I was thinking as far as I could gather by searching for manuals on e-bay. so what series engine is this. I dont think its late enough to be a D330 but maybe it is an early version of one? I just dont know.
Engine is a D315
It is a D315 engine, one of the best ever made. Now the question is which setup did they use when they transferred it from a D4 into the blade, because the fuel system and governor is different between the two as the blade will be higher horsepower, 75 hp originally as opposed to (approx)55 hp in the dozer.
The instructors at Ft. Leonard Wood made sure that we knew about the controls in those graders.Our alternate graders were Austin Westerns with the International gas over diesels in them.Hydraulics was a fairly new concept back then in the early '60s and I always liked running them.Ron G
Engine oil pan is right for the grader so maybe everything got transferred to the 6U motor.
Well call me crazy but I put down a $200 dollar deposit on this machine today. should go pick it up fist of the week. 400 mile trip one way. Oh yea! real fun in a 79 Freightliner cab over lol Ah who am I kidding I love every minute of it LOL.
Don't forget the pictures. We all like them.
Hope the price wasn't to high if your buying sight unseen.
Me to! Hope the machine is what I think it is. It is all a gamble but hey sometimes fortune favors the bold. I am not 100% committed but its gona cost me $200 to find out if I back out!
If it runs and moves, buy the bloody thing and get to work, quit dithering about man!
That's going to be a long ride home driving that grader!
Oh its a done deal just need to get up there and get it LOL!
No need to drive it back by yourself. You can fit two in that cab, with suitcases.
Thats ok something like that isnt measured in MPH as much as it is MPB. Thats Miles Per Beer!
Now don't be gitting picked up for GWI, grading while intoxicated!
So installing a sign that says "Will Grade For Beer" is a bad idea? Maybee I can make some money on the way back stopping to do some driveways along the way.
Those old graders were good, I saw a few of the old knuckle busters still grading into the 1990s. They graded thousands of miles of roads and many square miles or parking lot. But you might be happier with something like a 12F, nicer controls (still mechanical but nicer) and hydraulic blade side shift, or a 12G, same advantages as the F model, but all hydraulic with articulation as well. Just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you choose.
When you grab the sticks, be committed or it will hurt! For fine adjustments a short but firm poke works well.
Probably would but this machine all boils down to price and availability.
Grade first drink beer latter!
Yea I am sure my insurance company would love to hear me talking of this LOL!
Them old graders put a lot of miles on in a hurry. Our local county shop says they average 600 miles a week plowing snow with each of the three graders the county has. Before I retired I found a great deal on a low hour Model 12 in Alaska. I wanted to puy it and road it home to Minnesota as a vacation towing the pickup with small camper on a tow bar. Unfortunately(maybe) my wife convinced me I didn't need three graders and my employer wasn't to excited about giving me 6 weeks off in the heat of a project. I'm still looking.
Eh what do wives know? They dont NEED 60 pairs of shoes either! NEED / WANT same thing LOL.
Lol, that would be a heck of a road trip
It would be a lot longer than the last one. I roaded my DW-21 80 miles in two states after I bought it, serviced it, and put a few hours on it. With the grader if I had trouble I could tow it off the road with the truck at least. Have always thought it would be a cool scenic trip for a few weeks.
Boy, I must be getting senile, I had to go back and look at that twice to see it said DW-21, not D-21 Actually, the funny thing is, you could do 80 miles on a D-21 in under 20 hours. Now, that would be a loooong, boring road (oops, shoulder), trip.
The 80 mile trip with the DW-21 took 3 hours and 45 minutes. There is a link to a video of it on here under scrapers I think and for sure on the ACMOC site.
Have you got more pictures of this old grader, want to see more
Not yet still trying to go get it picked up. Darn weather has suked something awful here in the Midwest.
When you get it started shut the gas valve off for pony and let it run the carb dry. Mike
One thing about it, those old dogs pull start real easy, used to start a 12 with a log chain and a 3/4 ton 4X4 pickup.
I think that is just good practice for anything gas powered. Especially if it sets for long periods. The gas today turns to junk to fast with all the ethanol.
I was told it prevents wear on the float needle and seat while the main engine is working creating constant vibration. Mike
The biggest reason to turn the gas off on any Cat pony motor is to protect the engine bearings. When the main engine is running the needle jet in the pony tend to bounce in the gas and dilute the oil soon causing the pony motor to soon poop on you. I change my pony oil often. Shutting the pony motor gas off has been instructed in every Cat operators manual covering a machine with a pony motor that I have ever looked at. With the ponys holding only a bit over a quart in most cases it does not take a lot of gas to dilute the oil.
Actually the proper way is to shut the gas off and let them run out of gas. Just leave the switch on and it won't go bad and no need to short out the magneto.
I had a miller welder that did the same thing. If you forgot to shut off the gas then went driving around town with the service truck the next time you went to use it you had no gas and an overflowing crankcase. It was the cause of some pretty good cussing fits more than once LOL.
If you can't get premium gas with no ethanol, go to a small town airport and buy aviation gas. Unless the pony motor on that grader has a catalytic converter:beatsme:beatsme:falldownlaugh I better be careful saying something like that, pony motors get people going just about as much as Detroits do.
I usually use a site like this ---> http://pure-gas.org/ to find ethanol free fuel, like workshoprat2 says... if it sits a while the ethanol stuff will gunk it up, I know first hand with gensets and welders that don't get used maybe once a month and your ripping the carb apart to clean the jelly out of it
Stihl Motomix, non-aromatic, no ethanol, mixed 50:1 with a synthetic oil. Might smoke just a hair but it will last a long time and keep everything lubed up, LOL
Oh now you have done it! You had to go and say the D word! SIGH guess I will go get the bag of oil dry. Its gonna get messy in here!
I agree. Many of us Cat collectors use mixed premium in the pony motors. Seems to keep the rust down in the pony fuel tank also.
The reason that you run the pony out of gas is to keep it from flooding in case you stall the diesel and need it again right away according to the instructors at Ft.Leonard Wood.I couldn't tell you because I always ran them out of gas.LOL.Ron G
I'm not sure the instructor every read a Cat manual. But as with all military instructors I'm sure he was right about everything. Pony motors are pretty hard to flood if they are in at all tune. If they do flood open the petcocks for a couple revolutions and away they go.
We are scheduled to head up to Pella Iowa next Friday to pick this thing up. We are going to leave stupid early so we can be at his yard by 9 am. Looks like old cab over sleeper may get some use LOL.
Great; you'll have a belly full of Turkey and a food coma to work off! Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Your right. Its gona be a heck of a trip LOL. worst thing is a week after that I am going to Denver to get an equipment trailer, bantam crane and another dump truck that is excess from my Dads shut down operation. Its gona be a heck of a few weeks. Man the things a guy will do for some yellow iron LOL>
I am having a hard time getting my head wrapped around the length of this machine. Its very hard to picture it on my trailer looking at the pictures. I know the book says 24'-11" and when I asked the guy to measure it he measured 25'-6" It just looks so much longer than that in the pictures. My trailer is 25 foot with the deck and dove tail. Guess I will find out Friday LOL. Sure wish there was one here local I could go look at.
Well its 6PM and I am going to try to get some sleep. I have to get up at midnight and try to pull out on the road at 1PM. Looks like we will hit rain on our way to Pella Iowa. Leaving a couple of hours earlier than what google maps says it will take to get there by 9AM. Got all the excitement of a kid on the night before Christmas. Hopefully food coma will be worn off by the time we leave.
you have already lost an hr it's 7:00 pm here
Well here is the rest of the story and really the end of the story. We spent a good 6.5 hours mushing through rain to be able to be at the pickup point in Pella iowa by 9 am. When we got there the machine was most definitely misrepresented by the owner. I wanna know how they could have possibly been trying to pull start this machine and it was blowing smoke if the engine is completely locked up? Plus when you look into the exhaust manifold it was rusty and flaking off like it had been exposed to water for a very long period of time. Why put a can on the exhaust and leave the top off the air filter? Not to mention I asked if everything on this machine would work. his reply was yes it should. Well how can the turn table work when the shaft is bent like a pretzel and the input and output shaft on the drive and gear boxes are bent to match? This man is a complete liar and a crook. We forfeited our $200 dollar deposit and walked away. He acted like he was put out by the loss of a sale from putting other people off. Hey douche bag that's what you got paid to do with a deposit. your rules not mine so don't **** and moan about your own setup. Besides what about my time and money spent in fuel to get up there to deal with your lying ass. Well guys I am not to big of a man to admit that I took a gamble and lost. That's the way it goes in buying used heavy equipment. Sometimes you have to kiss a bunch of frogs before you get a prince.
that sucks but it seems thats how more people are getting now days they just tell you what they think you want to hear and not listen to what you are saying. Every time something like that happens to me I end up finding a better deal some where else just be patient :thumbsup
That's disappointing, lots of shysters out there. Plenty of those old graders around, something better will come along.
That is too bad and the seller was probably not planning to sell to someone who knew what he was looking at and it is possible the the seller did not know himself. It is probably too late now but could you find something locally for the back haul?Ron G
That's too bad, but you made the right decision. Seen too many people complete the deal because they had time and money into it, only to have it turn into an endless money pit and headache. Next!
Better luck next time! Really have to wonder about some people, did he really think by some miracle that seized up engine would spring to life just because you showed up?
Honestly I think he thought we wouldnt ever know or find out till long after it was loaded on the trailer and well on its way to another state. He was counting on that I wouldnt know how to find out or be willing to hook my truck to it and pull to find out. Judging from the auction sticker my bet is he bought it at auction figuring it was good and not knowing about engine problem. He was just trying to pass his sucker hood on to the next willing victum. Thats the way it goes though. Some days you get the bear and other days the bear gets you. In three deals I had two turn out really good. 2 out of three aint not bad! I have done well enough on the other two I can absorb this and go on. Just the game I play in. Not crying about it but just thought you all would like to know how it all turned out.
Thats exactly what my bussines partner said.
On the way back we did find a 112f that we would rather have. It even ran. We didnt have enough cash in our pocket to make the deal. Would have to come up a few K to get it done but really we would have far more than that in other machine and it still wouldnt be as good as the f model.
If your going after the 112F try for an 80Jxxxx model with the D330c engine or better yet a late 89Jxxxx with 3304.
It does have a D330 engine. I should have wrote down serial number.
That's too bad, you just are lucky to know enough to not buy it. Sounds like the owner would make more money off it to part it out, but maybe he isn't smart enough to do that, LOL!! Mike
I hate when they misrepresent equipment. I bought a manlift without personally looking at it. It was a large rental company and the owner assured me if it wasn't as he said he'd make it right. Well I was told it ran on propane,everything worked as it should and no leaks. It showed up dripping on the trailer. It didn't even have the capability to run on propane. The owner did make it right though. They sent me all the new parts to fix it and paid me to do it.
Or maybe he's running a scam, you know misrepresent it take the deposit and then when someone shows up and refuses to buy it he pockets the deposit and waits for the next "buyer". Could keep this going for a long time!
I will be interested to see how he relists it on craigslist. May have to keep it flagged.