2008 Hino 268a 25,950 GVW Engine: Hino J08E-TV 220 hp @2500 rpm; 520 ft. lbs. Torque @ 1500 rpm Donaldson Air Cleaner Single Cylinder air compressor Front Axle: 10,000 lbs. meritor, oil lubricated Rear Axle: 19,000 ;bs/ <erotpr RS19-145 Front Suspension: 12,000 leaf spring Rear suspension: 19,000 lb leaf spring Frame: 80,000 psi steel, C channel Allison 2200 RDS 6 speed automatic transmission w/pto gear A/C AM/FM/CD radio Options Included Three group 31 batteries Trans mobile synthetic Fluid in Transmission and Rear Axle Heated Mirrors Air Horn Rear Shock Absorbers a/r seat $47,679.00 Plus tax tile tags Truck will be used for a roll off container business.
if your putting a hook hoist on the truck your gonna want a 3 series allison trans in the truck. it lets you have use of the pto in R N or D which is much better than only N when hooking up to and setting down cans. Just my two cents Brian
I guess you would know with 10 trucks lol. It is the only transmission I can get on that truck.
I know your trying to stay under the gvw for your CDL rule in the states but I would seriously consider going with a truck with a 21,000lb rear axle. Go with the 308 and derate the gvw if you want to stick with a under CDL. I drove rolloff truck and drive gravel trucks and operate 2 ton trucking business and had trucks in horrible places. In a 3-5 ton single axle truck used for vocational use where your in mud where you have conditions where the wheels slip and grab or your bogged down in soft ground that stresses driveline parts like you wouldn't beleive. Hino is probably the best medium duty out there besides Paccar trucks. The price you got on that truck you posted is a really good price that is what we would pay for a 185.
G,day Bins. Those Hinos are sold by the dozen down ere (so it seems anyway) and that Diff is available with an electric activated cross axle Locker. I definetly wouldn't go heavier if you don't need it, such as if the truck will be predominatly road/residential work. The locker and easier foot will get the truck out of any minor skirmishess. Heavier diffs, if Hino would actually do one, add un-sprung weight and undesirable increased rotating mass, all adding to increased purchase costs and long term maintenance. A good option for Offroad but a shear waste otherwise. FordLT recommends heavier Diffs to everybody on this forum without any thought of the consequences. It should be a good runner, Hino's have strong engines...I just can't gets meeself in them cabs .
Is it hard to buy your first truck when just starting a business?
Myself I wouldn't be buying a brandnew truck right off the bat I would probably try find a used truck like this one. Its selling for 47,000 dollars in Truck Paper .com. If I was buying a single axle used hooklift it would be the one its a 2003 4400 model truck with 33,000 miles 466 with automatic.
Thats a good deal.
The thing is Ford LT-9000 you never will buy any of the things you recommend everyone else buy, you're too comfortable with your government job. You have very little credibility with me to be advising everyone else on how to run a business when you don't have the courage to try it yourself.
You gotta be a little carefull about going into business it might be a little easier in the USA but in Canada soon as you try go into business the gov't is knifing you in the back. Right now Alberta is so desparate for workers a gravel truck driver starts at 100 grand a year In my area now you will be hard pressed to find a job driving gravel truck if you own a gravel truck is probably parked. Excavation contractors are really slow. With the forestry strike logging is shut down thats hurting the economy big time. Local gov't is putting a stop on developing because its out growing the infrastructure that will cut down on new construction big time. With Bins situation going out and buying a brandnew hooklift truck is really risky plus buying brandnew rolloff boxes. You figure a complete set up with 5 bins to start with will be 95,000 dollars with a goal of paying it off in 4 years should make your payment 2200 a month. You would have to haul allot of garbage to make that pay.
Wait, slow down, I'm still tuning my violin... Somebody give me an "A"... Nothin' like using OPM to spec a truck. (Other Peoples Money)
I know where he can find a 2006 F-750 with a hooklift for 88,000 I'am pretty sure it was traded in for a tandem conventional hoist truck. Here is a single axle with a conventional hoist rated at 20,000lbs just more options over a hooklift
Everyone has to find their niche market. I am going after 10 to 20cy boxes. I do not expect to make money right away with this business just like I didnt make money on my first business right away. I am happy as long as I can make some money but first I will be happy with the company being able to cover its own expenses and nothing coming out of my pocket. I spend countless hours searching the internet among many other things for my in depth research. If all goes well then the container business will be much more profitable then my lawn care company with fewer employees. Here are some brief numbers that I have come up with. A/P Myself and 1 employee for office/back up driver 1 truck with hook lift $1500 a month 40 containers $2000 a month Advertising $1000 a month Employee $2,000 a month including taxes Shop and land for containers including util. 1000 Insurance $400 a month Misc $1500 a month Fuel $1500 a month A/R 40 containers flipped 3 times a month gross after dump fees $21,000 Profit before taxes and my salary $10,000
The truck payment sounds a little low what kind of financing are you getting ? What kind of price estimates are you getting for 20 yard bins I would guess you would be paying 3 grand a bin brandnew. The advertising is important but maybe cut that budget back a little bit and put it towards the equipment. Your name will be spread around fairly quickly once you get working for your local builders. Are you going to hire a employee right away maybe a part time guy would be good during the first year. The bin storage yard rental seems about right you may even find a good chunk of land you can buy. Insurance is hard to say you guys pay more for insurance than we do here. Truck maintenance will be a big one expect to be doing some tire repairs each month. Your fuel will vary and depend on the truck you buy and the driver behind the wheel. Now the last question how many other contractors in your area provide the mini bin service ?
There are about 6 other companies that do this type of business. Only one of them is big. When I call the other small ones they can not get a bin out that day even though they advertise it. And then some don't even answer the phone. $74,000 at 8% for 60 months 1500.45 and that is buying outright instead of lease which I may do. Containers run $2200-$2500
You got the right plan of buying the truck out right I never liked leasing either. I'am really surprised you can get rolloff bins that cheap the price of steel is so high. For me it would be 2500 dollars in steel alone to build a all steel 10 yard bin. It sounds like there is some demand for a mini bin service in your area is there any more demand for even smaller bins. With my area there is no renovations happening its where I used to get my work from. People gutting the inside of their house and re-doing it thats not happening anymore or not now. I think that people bought a house for 500,000 dollars they can't afford to renovate it. A fixer upper house is 350,000 something you would spend another 150,000 to fix it up. When a old house that needed work was selling for 150,000 3 years ago people could afford to put another 150,000 into it. Peoples house payments are 2500 a month for the next 25 years on a 300,000 dollar house so they got no extra money to spend on reno's etc. The high house prices have cut my jobs to nothing nobody wants to spend anymoney they are too cash strapped now. Storage is another big thing now nobody throws anything out people are renting 20' shipping containers for storage. The one storage place can't get enough containers people clean their basement out instead of throwing it out they put it in storage It costs them couple grand a year to store stuff they don't even use or haven't used in years. The junk I used to haul to the dump people are keeping. I don't know if its the same in your area but also consider some kind of rolloff storage buildings. If you find a area where you can store your rolloff bins have a area for storage. Enough rambling I hope you don't sink youself too far into debt. I still would be looking at a used truck or a good used truck you can put a new hoist on.
Bins, what sort of a truck are you looking at? Are you still going with a Hino? I have the same idea that you have, but starting here in SE PA, Montgomery and Chester County. I have been running the numbers, and I think I have the same idea you do; start with the 10 and 20 yard containers, don't compete with BFI and WM with the bigger containers; focus on the home improvement and homeowner market. I'd be interested to share some information with you sometime concerning the numbers I have come up with to see if I am being realistic in my expectations. Good luck, I'm interested to see how things turn out for you. I am targeting a start in the spring of 2008.
Hey Bins - You definetely have done your homework, have the right mind set and attitude to make this business work. The can business, from my little experience of actually owning one (Orchard I am dusting off MY violin) , is not a business to expect to make a living out of, right out of the gate. The physical plant expenditures are somewhat high and there is a lag time for the A/R to be in the form of a check in your mailbox. I think you will be just fine in your business endevor and get ready to order more cans!:drinkup BTW - I think you may need to add some more $$$ to the employee column. $500 per week at 4 weeks is $2k. Good Luck!
:update Bins and every one else on the forum that runs a small business - Quit Now! There is no hope for you to ever better yourself and achieve your dreams of owning your own business. The economy is in the crapper and there is no way, no way , it is ever going to get better. I suggest that everyone go get a gov't job now while you still have a chance! . Squelch all your thoughts and dreams of ever doing better for yourself - it's just not possible!. OMG - I am running towards the bunker now with the wife and dog before the real :shf The rosin has left my bow.
ROTFLMAO :lmao :falldownlaugh WATCH YOUR BACK...THE GOVT IS IS ABOUT TO PUT A KNIFE IN IT........
Laugh all you want you guys are 9 trillion into debt and climbing higher doesn't that worry you Each one of you owe the US gov't 30,000 dollars. So make hay while the sunshines and kept your debt level low. The US dollar is loosing value the CND dollar rising its good for guys like me we can buy cheap autoparts and trucks cheaper from the USA now. I can buy a brandnew F-450 Ford cheaper in the USA than I can from my local Ford dealer. I'am a little more cautious when it comes to spending money and taking risks because its easy to loose everything. Once you get a bad credit rating it takes years to get it back. Its taken me 10 years before the bank would even lend me money anything I have done has been with the money I made. I work for the freaking gov't and the bank hedges about lending me money I got a good credit rating. The most they would lend to me is 30 grand thats my truck I have now with a nice payment of 700 a month Anyhow if Bins wants to sink himself into debt with brandnew equipment go right ahead. The rolloff companies that started here started and still run used trucks and used bins. The one company that started in the area had a old Mack MR and couple bins now they have 4 tandem rolloff trucks with 30 bins. Its taken the company 10 years to grow to the size it is. The money to be made is in scrap metal recycling. When the prices are up to 190 dollars a ton for under 48" scrap that is pretty good. Its pretty hard to compete when a person with a P/U truck will clean out a persons basement for 20 dollars per hour. Why pay a person like me that charges 100 dollars per hour. At 20 dollars per hour that doesn't even pay for the fuel. Dip your toe into the pool not jump in full body find a used truck or get in the trash business with a straight truck and do it yourself. Find out if your going to like it or not. If your going to offer the mini bin service to elderly customers that want their yard cleaned up your gonna have to do the work loading the bin. If your area is having a housing boom now don't think its going to continue its not. Its just a sucker hole it is happening here the contractors are sinking themselves into debt. These guys are going to be a hurting this winter when the work falls off to nothing. A 10-12 grand a month equipment payment doesn't stop. My area went from 500,000 being the most expensive top of the line house ever built to 2 million is the most expensive house built. That is just in 4 years. Good Luck
bins, you don't need a hauling license??
You might be able to buy a truck cheap here but you never will, so why do you keep boring us with your sob stories? Your song is getting old and I'm not the only one tired of hearing it.
Good question. In my neck of the woods you do not need a hauling license for C&D material. This got me thinking on something that has not been discussed when talking about a roll-off business - a good service contract. To hit the high points: Items that cannot be placed into the can - batteries, flourescent bulbs, hazardous materials, etc. Check your local landfill and see what is accepted Not responsible for damage when truck leaves the curb line - driveways, utilities, landscaping, etc Overloading the can - customer is responsible for unloading the can Loading the can properly - not above the "fill line" sticker on the can "Dry Runs" - IE do you charge your customers when you come to pick the can and it is overloaded or loaded improperly Of course payment terms - with homeowners I suggest COD or credit card before the can is dropped. Be wary of checks. There is more to add - that is all I can think of at the moment.
id personally look at ih or pete or kw for dealer network alone
Another good point - the truck is only as good as the dealer support. In my neck of the woods the IH dealer is, let's say :cussing :Banghead ointhead - and this opinion is from first hand experience from buying a few trucks from them, all new. The first was a '99 4700 and it was a great truck. Second was an '03 4300, which was a good truck but had several electrical problems. Third was a 7600 tandem dump which has been a total POS. As we speak it is sitting in their yard waiting for an ECM to be replaced. Of course it is out of warranty and I am going to spend $2k or more to get it repaired, just so I can sell it.:Banghead I have had the A/C "repaired" 4 or 5 times (for my own sanity I lost count) and this truck is an '05 model I bought new. Now I am not saying IH is a bad truck, but when I send my truck into this dealer it's there for at least 2 weeks and I cannot tolerate that. The bank does not care if my truck is sitting at the shop and not making money - they just want their payment. (BTW - these trucks were used in my building/excavating business not the can business.) The KW dealer is also the Hino dealer and they are pretty darn good. The Hino has went to the shop one time in over a year for a sensor. The truck was towed in on a Friday and we picked it up the next day. To me that is pretty good service - which is very important, regardless of truck brand. I have not had any experience with our Pete dealer, but I do like the looks of the 330. If you feel comfortable with the Hino dealership, I would totally recommend one, they are very good trucks. I personally think they have the best medium duty truck on the road for the money. Regardless of what I think about truck brands - your dealership and their service will play a big role in your business. Starting out with one truck means that if it goes down you cannot service your customers. How fast you can get that truck back on the road means alot in this business.
This dealer offers a maintence package. For $150 a month it includes all your regular schedule maintence you only pay for wear and tear items ex. belts, tires, and wipers. Is it worth it? Also if you drop your truck off then they say that they will have it back on the road in less then 4 hours.
Hino makes pretty well the best medium duty when your looking for a truck in the 18,000 to the size Bins is looking for. Once you get into the 33,000 to 35,000 then the PACCAR trucks are better. A KW T-300 or a Pete 335 is a waste is its licensed lower than 35,000lbs. Another truck to look at would be the Freightliner M2 ya its a Freightliner but if you buy new its okay. A Sterling 7500 would be another decent truck. I would definatly want a truck with air even if your going with a 25,000lb gvw truck there is nothing like having spring brakes. The newer trucks with juice brakes are okay but the shaft emergency brake is still a little weak.
Bins i was in your position 4 years ago. I was 24 and was looking to get into the waste thing. I looked at new trucks since i didn't know much about big trucks and didn't want to buy a piece of crap. On a whim i drove to NC to look at used hook truck that was auto. I found out once i got there it was a cdl truck and told the guy i had to pass as i didn't have a cdl license. The guy made me a deal i couldn't pass up. (I had to pay someone to fly down and drive the truck back for me.) The following week i got my cdl. I bought six new cans plus i had three the guy sold me with the truck, to start out. Within a week all 9 containers were out on jobs. So about a 3 weeks later i bought 6 more, which i used for about 3 months. Then the builders starting asking why i didn't do the bigger cans because they loved the service they were getting from me on the smaller ones. And it all started from there.... Back to my point, that used truck four years later and about 150k miles is still used everyday and has rarely let me down. I guess what i am saying is don't be afraid of used trucks, you just have to be patient to find the good ones. BTW that 1st truck i had is 2000 freight fl80 auto 250CAT w/ 68k miles and three cans was only $35000
Yep - that's pretty much our story as well. Starting with a single axle and within a year I had my CDL and now we have 2 tandems and our first single axle. Our customers using the smaller cans needed bigger cans and they really liked our service. Like SunServices said "It all started from there...." That was a good deal and if I could have found a truck like that, our first one would have been used as well. Of course Murphy's Law states you usually don't find those kind of trucks until right after you take delivery of your new truck. :Banghead
in va do you need a hauling license??
Not that I know of.
ok I have found a truck in my area that seems to be a good deal. 2007 f 750 33 gvw. air brakes, air seat, aluminum wheels, 24k swaploder, 6 speed auto 3500 alllison, 250 hp cat engine. for $5k more then the hino. what should I do? I ask b.c it seems like cdl trucks are a pain with dot
Bins - I would NOT go with the Ford. Ford medium duty trucks are probably the worst med. duty trucks out there IMO. We had an '06 F650 with a 14K hook on it - 2 turbos (cummins), blown coolant line, and rusted fuel tanks from the factory. Ford warrantied the rusted fuel tanks - it was some sort of factory recall they admitted - after we pitched a huge fit. Cummins warrantied the rest, after several trips between the Cummins shop and the Ford shop, each one pointing fingers at the other. Now we bought this truck used, but with only 5k miles on it. I have a rented '07 Ford F650 water truck with 10K miles in my dirt company. Clutch went out - now this could be due to poor drivers skills since it is a rental. But I am still using it for my argument against Ford. The problem I have with Ford and GM medium duty trucks is the fact they use a pickup truck cab on a med. duty chassis. 7-8 years of service life and the cabs just don't hold up. It seems like they are hodge-podging a truck together to have something to bring to the market. The Ford med. duty frames and running gear are made by International at their plant in Mexico but Ford puts their cab, engine and electronics on them. Now on the other hand the Hino we bought new - 1 time in shop for a sensor - truck has 50k miles and is over a year old. What I like about Hino is one dealer/service shop - Hino truck and Hino engine. The truck was towed to the Hino/KW dealer and we had the truck back the next day - Hino paid the towing and warrantied the truck. Hino also gives you 3 years of roadside service regardless of milage and a 24 month comprehensive warranty coverage on the truck. Usually the better the warranty given, the less chance of having to use it. There is nothing more aggravating than taking your truck to the Ford/KW/International dealer only for them to say it is a Cat/Cummins/Detroit problem. Take it to the Engine shop and they turn around and say it is Ford/KW/International's problem. I have been through this so many times with my International/Cat dump truck and it is very frustrating because you are getting the run-around, your truck is not making any money but you are still making that monthly payment.
The good thing is that this ford dealer is certifed for Cat engines. This dealer only sales big trucks and their service is open til midnight monday-friday and 8-4 on saturday. How much more of a pain is it to have a 33,000 gvw over a 25999 gvw truck. Also in order to get to the cheap landfill I have to cross a State Scale but I will not have to cross one to dump concerte or dirt.
I have a 2005 Hino and I would not buy another. The parts are expensive and the shop I deal with has to air freight almost everything in. I could rant about this local dealer, which is one of the largest on the west coast. But I just won't ever buy from them or another Japanese rig again. :usa I also own 3 Isuzu's. The motors are good on the Hino and Isuzu's. It's just the cost of ownership that kills me...:Banghead
Bins I registed today so I could try to help you out, if I can. This site helped me so much when I was going through the early stages of researching which equipment to buy. I obsessed about it trying to find the right combination of equipment to guarantee my sucsess and still made the wrong choice. but I made one and did something and it works .I have only been renting bins fo 9 months and I would say I am just starting to figure it out. I purchased a used international 4700 (Dt466) with a new ampliroll hooklift and went into containers between 9 & 20 yards. I love my hooklift and am happy with the 9-20 yard containers but I would do it different now knowing what liitle I have figured out. I am going to sell my current truck and go smaller, I am going to buy a new dodge 5500 with a 19,500 and i am going to make use of the GCW of 26,000. I find the 15 yard containers the most popular, but as you know all markets are different. I am the retail garbage hauler, I do what the big haulers won't and service the crap out of my customers! If I can be of help let me know! PS. I believe there is always work for those who work hard and maintain a good attitude.
Welcome to HEF minibin! :drinkup
The only difference between the two is that you will need a CDL to drive the 33k truck. The cost of registration and insurance will also be higher due to the increased weight. The 26k truck is still considered a commercial vehicle and will need DOT numbers. Once you have the DOT numbers, the truck needs to be equipped with a fire extinguisher and safety triangles (not a big deal). Your drivers will need to carry DOT medical cards, and be enrolled in a drug testing program. I believe you will also be subjected to DOT audits, which means you'll need to have all your paperwork in order as far as maintenance, safety, and drug testing. Regardless of which truck you have, you would be required to cross the scales, and have all your stuff in order if you're asked to "pull around back". Joe
I have a Intl 4700 with a 26k gvw. No cdl required until 26001gvw, in Oregon. It has air brakes and a DT466. This is what I will be converting my fleet to.You can buy these trucks used all day long for $20k. Mine is a 2001 had 70k miles on it and I paid $20k for it. The 19k gvw trucks will have disc brakes and are very expensive to replace compared to air. Air brakes are the only way to go. IMO. Good luck.
Thank you minibins. I have to cross a state scale everytime I go to the dump except for concrete and dirt. That is why I am going to go with a 33,000 gvw truck also b.c I feel I am getting a good deal on it. I am going against the grain and buying a F-750 with a cat motor only b.c the dealer seems to be great. My Hino salesman will not return my call or emails. He couldnt get us financed b.c of it being a new business. I am getting a little scared at starting this company b.c it costs so much to really get into it and make money. I feel as though I will not be making serious money until I have 40 cans and can flipped them 3 times a month. Here is my numbers. Tell me what I need to fix. By Jan 1, 2008 20 cans flipped 3 times a month at $175 each after tipping fees 20x3=60 x $175= $10,500 Truck payment $1600 Can payment $1000 Storage yard $500 Secretary $1600 Fuel $1000 Insurance $350 Driver (me) $2400 repairs $500 Advertsing $1000 Total $9950 PBT $650 March 1, 2008 30x3=90 x $175= $15750 Truck Payment $1600 Can Payment $1500 Storage Yard $500 Secretary $1600 Fuel $1300 Insurance $350 Driver (me) $2800 Repairs $750 Advertsing $1500 Total $11900 PBT $3850 May 1st 40 cans 40x3=120 x $175= $21000 Truck Payment $1600 Can Payment $2000 Storage Yard $500 Secretary $1800 Fuel $1600 Insurance $350 Driver (me) $3500 Repairs $1000 Advertsing $2000 Total $14350 PBT $6650 Which means I will not have to drive anymore if I dont want to and focus on second truck and other business.
Bins, I am under a deadline tonight, so i'll be brief and get back to you on the weekend. Remember I am no expert but I just went through the same thoughts and excercises you are now. I took a minute to read back though your older posts and some other members have given great feedback. I really agree with "CM1995" when he said the money is in the homeowner market and samll contractors, the cash flow difference is a big one when starting up. One of my competitors complains constantly about revievables and collection challenges. I take payment when I drop the can and charge more If they are over the maximum weight. I find the flat rate system to be the most straight forward for the customer when the are comparing costs. I chose to go with the smaller cans but make them all dual lift so if I am over loaded I can call a larger truck (rarley-never) and If I chose to grow them I can add a roll-off to the fleet. I find there is less of a grind in the smaller can market. My customers who need more than a small can (10-15), I will bring them 2 cans. I have some containers that are nestable meaning they can be placed one in side the other or I will put 1 on the truck and a second on a deckover trailer to tow behind. Now I have put down a 2x12's=24yards or 2x15's=30. This is more work but I can service all markets, and If you do the the math on my weights using the GVW vs the GCWR I can carry alot of payload legally. and when the market wants more and I am swamped with work I will get a larger truck and larger cans. I find that the the demand for smaller cans is good and only going to get better with new restrictions coming in when it comes to mixed loads. I have 3 bins on 1 site 1 drywall, 1 metal, and 1 debris. You will find that one size bin feeds the other so plan your equipment for flexibility. One thing I should have done is researched my locally competitors more, i did when it comes to market and pricing but I should have aligned myself with similar equipment. So that I could buy them out or sell to them. Sometimes you' want to help one another out when the other is busy or has equipment problems. You have done some good numbers but a couple of things jumped out and I will look more closely on Friday night. Your statement that "I feel as though I will not be making serious money until I have 40 cans and can flipped them 3 times a month." 40x3 is 120 cans in 20 days /a month = 6 per day. Those are big days, The equipment is capable, but I find the time component my biggest challenge and cost of doing business. 1. Customer calls, once , twice then orders the bin 2. bin from yard to customer 3. customer to landfill 4 landfill to yard (hopefully to Customer instead) to do that and turn 6 bins fully over in a day is challenging, now I live in a city environment so traffic is an issue. Can you get your truck payment to $1600 a month? Check into Liability insurance for other peoples property(driveways...) Have you done a start-up budget for tools , truck boxes, tarps, tiedowns, vehicle lettering and all the misc things that do add up. I will look through my budgets and see what I can get you. Untill Friday! Bret
What is your average tipping weight minibins.
Other companies here offer 12,16,and 20cyd cans. I dont want to service 3 different sizes b.c then I will be running back to the yard alot more. Could I do it with only 12 and 20 yd cans. Then price the 20 yd can about $15 higher then my comp. 16 yard containers. Only thing is the 20 yd box is 16' long and 5' high and that is the inside size.
Bins i would say that the avg. weight on the 20yds is b/w 2.5-3 tns for construction debris and a little lighter for household cleanup. At least in the dc area 6 cans a day per truck is def. obtainable(a good 8 hrs), but it does depend on the route. Good choice on getting the heavier used truck, you won't regret it. Also make sure you have a backup plan for when your truck breaks, because it will. Where in VA are you?
Totally understand that. Dealer support is paramount. Those first numbers are too skinny. $650 bucks a month can disappear in a small business very quickly. You are basing you numbers on all your cans turning the first month - which will probably not happen until you establish your business. Be prepared with extra cash to support it in the beginning, I would feel comfortable with having at least $10K available. Your insurance budget looks a little low. Truck insurance, WC and GL will probably run closer to $8k-10k a year. Also need to include employers tax contributions on payroll - medicare, FICA, SS, etc. Where will you dispatch/office be? The numbers start to work out much better when the # of cans increase as well as your customer base. I would add more for fuel (we don't know what it will cost a year from now) and repairs. I would also keep my advertising budget at $1k. When you get established, you may not need to advertise more than you currently are. At that point you can drive Sat. and cut down on the drivers overtime. 2 very good points. I agree as well. It is tough for us to do 6 cans per day. That's an hour and 20 mins per can for an 8 hr day. Pick up, dump and deliver - that's pretty skinny for my neck of the woods and the driver didn't stop to get fuel or eat lunch. With urban/suburban traffic the average for us is 4-5, per truck on a good day. These are the costs that sneak up on you in the beginning. Also don't forget can repair. In a perfect can world, you will bill the customer when they damage a can, but sometimes you will not notice a handle or other part of the can damaged until it has been turned several times and ends up at the yard needing a repair. The % of can repair will also increase the longer the cans are in service, the more cans you are turning and when you hire another driver - it's human nature, no one will take care of your stuff like you will.
nevermind
I cant expect to make a profit the first couple of months anyway. I will have money on hand. These are just rought numbers. Thanks for the help with my numbers. Phone book ad is $600 a month for 1/2 page.
Right now I will have to pay $7.25 a cyd but once I start dumping 200 tons a month I will be paying only $22 a ton for C & D. So my cost will go from $145 to dump a 20 yard done to about $66.
Hello, I just wanted to get in on this topic and see if I we could learn from each other. I have just gotten into the mini bin rentals as well. I have been working on it since october of '06. Here the local government is your biggest enemy! I have to have a C&D agreement with the city just so I can rent out bins and then they want 9% of the gross!!!! Not to mention your regular business license. Then theres your Million dollar insurance for the truck and you need a seperate one for liability. To top it all off some citys have been bought off and give out a excusive to ONE COMPANY and won't allow others to drop of debris boxes in the city limits. I wonder if there are ways around this? Is a "Mini Bin" a debris box? I think it could be worked out, It's all in the verbage :Banghead Anyone else have any local problems? As for equipment I have a 1997 Ford superduty with a 84-12-8 Stellar hooklift and a 2003 International 7400 with a 108-11-20 Stellar. I run two sizes of bins 12x8x4's and 12x8x2's the short ones are for concrete, dirt, ect. Our disposal rates for the county transfer here is $89.90 a ton then there is a C&D only yard that charges $69.00 a ton. I would like to know how you guys set your rates? How do you calculate them? What all do you factor in? Since you don't know what you are going to be charged exactly for disposal fees. Thanks Brenden
Welcome to HEF 6DoubleDuece! :drinkup
Ut Oh.......
nedly05, Don't lump me into the same group that doesn't have the guts to go out and try to get something rolling. The government is your worst enemy, but that is in almost all business. Thanks Brenden
I have two options for trucks. Tell me what you think the best would be 2007 F-750 7.2 Cat 260hp 660 ft lb single stack exhaust 3500 allison 6 speed auto sl240 swaploader roll rite tarp 33,000 gvw air brakes air seat cd/fm/am radio 2 year unlimted mile warranty $79,500 ( havent tried talking him down yet) Been on the lot since atleast July. or 2007 gmc c7500 duramax 215 hp 520 ft lb 2500 allison 5 speed auto 20,000# stellar hooklift no tarp 25,950 gvw air brakes air seat cd/fm/am radio 3 year unlimited mile warranty $74,900 says that is the low as he can go.
The items highlighted in red are worth more than the $5k difference in price. My choice between the 2 would be the Ford. Although the extra year of warranty on the GMC is something to think about. The heavier GVW truck will obviously last longer with beefier components. If you don't have your CDL, don't let that sway your decision. I got my class A CDL in April and it was not difficult.
I think that between the Ford and the GMC I would go the Ford. I would rather have the Stellar though. That being said I went two states over to get my International. I am going to post a link for you to take a look at. http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1523684&guid=13CF9314C34444B4986ACEB9CAE10CAE This is a picture of my truck. They had 22 of them at one point. There is one left and the sales manager said he would like to move it. I think with some bargaining it could be had for close to $50,000 These trucks are extra heavy duty, 39,000 GVW and handle heavy boxes with ease! I personally like Stellar, They will pick up a lot more than they are rated for. Thanks Brenden
I was just playin' boss (hence the smiley). You have done a ton of homework, and a lot of research which tells me you are serious about giving it a go. Perhaps I need to be less of a smart axx, I surely did not mean to offend you. Good Luck!, Nedly05
Do you own this truck now, if not I would look really hard at this truck, I think you will be happier with it than the other two.
nedly05, No problem. Yes I own the international in that ad. The company is still using the picture to try an sell the last one. I have been operating for the last 3 months and have had some killer days/weeks and some sloooow weeks but I think as word gets out I will get more and more work. I am a little worried about advertising to much because I only have 6 boxes so far, and I don't want to put anyone off. I want to always take care of my customers. You guys were talking about contracts. This one has some really good Idea's. Look it over and maybe it will help you make up your own. http://www.1-866-junk-be-gone.com/dumpterms.html Thanks Brenden
How do you like your international? It's definitly a rugged looking unit.
Love it, I have had no problems with it. It hauls everthing I want easy! I need to add some more bling and a tarper. When I bought it, it only had 67k miles so it should be good to go for awhile. Thanks Brenden
Anyone know the weight dry weight of these cans. 10 15 20yd
Just got a quote from GMAC $497 a month for insurance on the truck alone. $1 million poilcy.
Bins That ins quote may be high, i think i pay around 330 per truck per month. granted i might have a volume discount but i don't think it would be that much difference. I would also still look into a used truck. There are plenty of good ones out there. The weight of the cans themselves really vary by manuf. who are u looking at buying them from
bwe-nc.com What insurance company do you use b.c everyone I call they say that they do not insure this type of company.
I use state farm in md and we have 2 mil liability which some of the big GC's require around here
Statefarm told me that they cant write that policy.
prob a va issue they have a big truck division in md
sun ,Why are the GC's asking for 2mil insurance???
not sure ill ask the guy in charge of that stuff
I got my cdl permit on monday. I didnt realize that I have to wait 30 days to get my license. Bad thing is my half page phone book ad starting hitting the streets this week. I thought it wasnt going to hit until November. I better pass the test first time around. How and where do i get a medical card?
Medical Card Get the paperwork from DMV and bring it to your Doctor, they fill it out, the card is part of the paperwork.
Your family doc can do the exam for the medical card. The forms can be printed off the USDOT website. Here's a link: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/safetyprograms/Medical-Report.pdf It's no big deal.
hooklift bin to Deckover trailer? Does anyone tow a deckover/ or flatdeck trailer with a hooklift, and sucessfully load a bin onto the trailer? Thx Bret
I don't have a deckover, But when I order bins I pick them off of the flat beds with no problems. I was thinking of make some sort of rail trailer so that I could haul two bins out to a site at the same time. It wouldn't need and hydraulics or anything all you need is a frame, axles, and maybe some 2"x8" tube for the rails. Thanks Brenden
I don't know if this just got buried or nobody had any comments Keep it rolling guys I think we can help each other out.
my office manager said the liab. ins. is just what some of the gc's have on their sub agreements. In terms of rates, ours vary greatly by the job, the standard though for call in one offs is about 375 for a 20yd with 3 tns of weight included and 475 for a 30yd with 5 tns of weight included. 63 a ton for tonnage over and 50 for delivery Brian
John I hope this will help BINS in his search for a used truck and mine also. Can anyone give advise on how to buy a used truck? I have searched the internet, thinking I would find a comprehensive article but have not. The things I have learned from a friendly guy at my first auction: 1) The little puff of air (blow by) coming from the bottom/back of the engine (crankcase) is good. A lot of air coming out is a sign of worn seals. I beleive the new EPA trucks no longer have any air coming out? 2)There shouldn't be any oil around the wheel spindles. 3)One can feel the brake drums and pads inside the rear wheels to see how much wear is left. 4)He felt springs were "bullet proof" as compared to air suspensions. Is there any information on repair statistics? For example:87 Ford pickup rear ends wear out. So if your buying one and the rear hasn't been replaced yet, plan on spending $1000. Truckpaper.com is the best used truck site I have seen. Are there others that people recommend? Is it common to take the truck your interested in to a truck mechanic and have it inspected? Cost? If it would be better to make this a new post. Could someone tell me how? Thanks, John
I don;t understand Sun the're telling you your a subcontactor by putting a container on there job!!! 500+ for a 10yd 800+ for a 30yd. just filled up today $3.10 for fuel!!!! was $2.60 in august
Welcome to HEF John! :drinkup
Yes we are treated just like any other sub on a jobsite. I gave up trying to fight with them. Its worth it though, when they need 300+ switchouts on one job over a 1 1/2 year period.
thanks for the welcome! Thanks for the welcome Country Boy! I've never done this before (is this a blog?), but I pay homage :notworthy to any advice I can get. I've read through just about every topic on this great forum (my thanks to Steve Frazier-moderator ) pertaining to buying a truck and have gotten some good information. I hope to buy a truck within the month-sometimes you have to jump in feet first! Today I am going to visit a couple of truck repair shops and see if I can absorb some wisdom. I'll let you know what I find. I also wondered about contacting Ole Jim and/or thrjdman 04 directly? Is this something to do or would it be better to do another post and then start a new thread? >How do I Buy a Used Truck? Thanks, John
sun I guess It's worth it ? But they are notorious for loading the hell out of boxes, smashing them & slow payers !
Nope, this is a forum. A little different from a blog....I can't explain the differences though as I've never used a blog. :beatsme Feel free to start a new thread if you like, you just need to make one more post before you can do so. You'll need 3 posts before your thread starting abilities kick in. :drinkup
So what are you paying for dispsosal? $63.00 a ton? What are you guys making net per container on average? I rent out 14.4yard containers 12x8x4's for $245.00 with 2tons included and $89.90 a ton for overage. We usually average about $120.00 per load, net. Those of you who are all ready rolling how many containers are you renting out a week? Thanks Brenden
kamerad it IS well worth it. Cans are rarely more than 6 tons, and we usually talk em into having 20's for masonry which we pay 20 a load to dump. Our dump fees range around here but we usually pay 50 a ton. On average we touch b/w 45 and 55 cans a day, be that del s/o fp or relocate
I still havent picked up a truck yet. Dealer is holding that f-750 for me right now. I have been doing a little reading and talk to a couple of guys. It seems as though 20 yd cans will almost never hit the 5 ton mark on just C&D. So i cant make up my mind if I want that 33,000 GVW truck. Anyone have any idea the tipping weight would be for a 10yd box filled with broken concerte.
Hey Sun, you kind of lost me. What does this mean? On average we touch b/w 45 and 55 cans a day, be that del s/o fp or relocate Bins, I find as a general rule because of the air gaps and such that broken concrete is about a ton per yard. If you have a 10yard box then you can estimate 10 tons plus the weight of the container. In my case I have a concrete box that is 12x8x2 and it weighs 3,600LB plus 14,000LB for the concrete so you have a 17,600LB box. My truck is 39,000LB GVW and with me in it and 1/2 tank of fuel it weighs 16,800LB so with a full load of concrete that puts me at 34,400LB. Remember this is a 7yard container, not a 10yard. I can't see that Ford weighing that much less than mine. I would get a 33gvw Minimum! Unless you don't want to haul dirt, concrete, ect. Thanks Brenden
sorry for the confusion by touching i mean performing any of the five functions to a dumpster: a delivery, a final pull, a switchout, a pull & return or a relocate.
Your 7 yard box weighs 3600#. I was told that my 10 yd box (8'x12'x3.5')should only weigh 2000#. Truck weighs 10,500 hooklift 4000, box 2,000 50 gallons of gas 400, me 200=17,100 gives me a payload of 15,900.
Is it possible he has a heavy duty box to hold up to the abuse of concrete?
Sun, we have a 5 ton limit (C&D) on a 30yd 3 ton on 20yd & 2 ton on a 10yd, so if the GC's are load 6 ton are you charge for over weight ? Do you have to have any hauling license or can anybody start haul there? Not where i'm from!!
Thanks SUN, for clearing up the lingo Bin's My concrete bins are very heavy duty It has channel iron to cap the walls (the only thing that has held up to over zelous bobcat drivers ) The floor and walls are 3/16's with 1' centers on the floor out of 2x4 steel. I think whoever told you that a bin for masonry is only going to weigh 2k is either wrong or they make junk.My bins for C&D are 12x8x4 with 10gauge floors and gates with 12gauge walls and they weigh 3400LB's and these are the lightest I would get. Thanks Brenden
I saw some roll off container business card magnets in a magazine. I cant remember the web address or the name of the company. Does anyone know where I can buy these?
Can a small guy make it in the rolloff container business, if he is hauling more than just junk away. Dropping off small equipment, small loads gravel. Or is this just a numbers game? Any better ideas then.
That's a loaded question with allot of possible answers. I think it depends on how you want to work and yes it's a numbers game. I think of these hooklifts as the "swiss army knife" of small business you can do allot with them and make money. What part of Canada are you in? Bret
Hook lift system I am in BC, Canada, on Vancouver Island. Have you ever seen the hooklift system on a trailer for pickups. Would let you kep your truck for personal use. I asssume you would be able to pull more with a 3500-5500 diesel p/u than carry on the deck? But I imagine you would need more room for turning etc. Bryon
Byron, I have seen hooklifts on trailers, they are actually popular in Europe for farming.I have seen a couple of ampliroll's on trailers locally. But the idea is wrong and practically doesn't work well enough. There are several roll off trailers as well. Your turning radius will be worse than a tandem and cause you lots of locisictal problems. The cost of the hooklift alone means it needs to be working alot to pay for itself...that trailer would drive you crazy. I see what you are saying about the GCWR with = more payload but the good outweighs the bad (obviously depending on your application). I drive my sterling bullet(dodge 5500) as my personal when it not making money. No trailer to deal with... Where are you on Vancouver Island? If you are located anywhere form Victoria to Nanaimo and are thinking of getting into the bin business we should talk, as I am thinking of moving some equipment over to Victoria to start operations there. Check out our web site to see what we are about..... Bret www.minibins.com
You finallly decided to come back ti the site minibins. I am no longer in the business as I was losing to much money in it. I still think about getting back in to it one day but it would be with your system of a small truck doing small boxes.
Bins, Sorry to hear that things didn't work out in the business..atleast for now. Like for all business's these have been a couple of hard years. We have had to reinvent ourselves a few times over. Bye being small i have found a few things to offer me a few ways to make money. I have gone to a larger single axle to meet the needs of few clients and see the expenses growing...I have been on the site many times but just lurking. I repllied to "deer3245" because he seems to be considering the bin rental market. I would like to save him some pain and suffering if I can... I am looking for a good 33k gvw single axle C&C located in the western us if anyone sees a good deal. I am looking for the following possibilities International dt 466 Auto 33k gvw 2002 & up under $20K with UNDER 150KMILES KW T300 OR PETE 330 WITH UNDER 200K MILES AUTO, 33K GVW SINGLE AXLE WITH A CUMMINS NOT THE CAT ALL THE BEST www.Minibins.com
Minibin I see you added a F550 to your fleet. What was the reason for doing so compared 26k gvw or larger truck?
Bins, I added a hino 358 33K single axle with a ampliroll 120 but i still needed something smaller. I bought the F550 for my personal truck and to deliver bins right up to 20 yards but the truth is it handles 75% of what our weights typically are. I needed a plow truck and something for those jobs that we can't get the bigger trucks into. Mostly I needed something that I could respond to the one off 9 or 10 at night job without going to the yard and warming a truck up. I just bring the bin home and go when needed. I don't ever say no to a customer. EVER! Bins you must have seen a pic of the f550 somewhere we took a 36' hook and modified it to 54" so it is compatible with the rest of my stuff.
I work in the rolloff business there are two trucks an 08 peterbilt and a 02 Volvo I make a 300 mile round trip every day pulling two 50 yard open tops I prefer the Volvo without air ride compared to the chromed out long nose pete with air ride the Volvo is just more of an off road work truck plus it has a bigger cab it depends on what kind of work you plan on doing with it and parts availability sorry to say it but id have to laugh at a hino if I seen one pulling containers I just cant see how the ones with a winch are any good the strong arm and the hook is the standard im thinkin.get a tandem that could fit long containers that way you could haul almost any kind your own or others just saying