Bought a 2004 jcb212s couple months back and it's been a good machine and has ran great but has always started a little hard and start out quick cranking the end slowly before turn over. Thinking it was a battery I put a new 1050 cca in. With same results still slow cranking. Also I've notice the ground on my starter smoking on a longer starts. Usually the first start of the day is worse. The rest of day starts are better. And turn over quicker. Lately it been getting worse. While I believe I may be coming to a starter today I started it and after. Long crank it started ran for 10 seconds then slowly stalled out and the alarm sounded and will not start now. The machine has alway ran great once started. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
drained water in filter sperator? I just got my 2004 212su the other day and went completely through it. I would start with fuel it shouldn't take that long to start. Also make sure all your ground straps are clean against clean metal, some dielectric grease all your connections / grounds etc. I have an old 4840 jd that I have like 4 - 2 gauge ground straps coming off 2 to battery to frame, solenoid to frame, starter to frame etc because it would do the same thing you stated. that solved the issue on that tractor. If you change the fuel filter make sure and take the fuse out that wont let it crank over. mine was A slot 2 - 5amp. Then crank it no more than 10 seconds at a time till fuel filter / lines etc are primed. hope any of this helps
Ok if I drain water separater will I need to prime the fuel system or no? Also with a quick glance I could not see the fuel shut off solenoid like most tractors have looked looked like it was built into injection pump. Any idea on manually setting it on just to make sure that not my problem.
Also whats the best way to prime these things something on injection pump? crack injectors/ lines ?
Can anyone tell me where this ground goes
If you post a picture of the injection pump, and transfer pump if there is one, then we can guess a little better. I'm not familiar with JCB's, but I know just enough about injection pumps to be dangerous Unless you have an electric transfer pump, you probably have a priming lever on the transfer pump, or possibly a round knob near the injection pump that unscrews and pumps up the fuel pressure by hand. You'll want to pump it up whether you drain anything or not. It sounds like you have two problems, a weak starter/wiring AND a fuel supply issue. The slowly stalling out sounds like a fuel supply/air leak issue to me. But it could be a solenoid too. If you have only one wire going to the injection pump, you can test the solenoid by disconnecting that wire, turning the key to on, and touching that wire to the terminal, it should click when you touch it. If you can see a fuel mist in the exhaust when you crank it, then the fuel is fine, just not cranking fast enough. A couple of test leads with alligator clips, and a multimeter will help you do some simple voltage tests on the starter while it's cranking to narrow down the slow cranking problem.
Not from here. You should be able to find a bolt on the engine that looks like it was messed with. Makes you wonder what else they were messing with that didn't get put back together right?
I see the inj. pump in the pic.. the solenoid is located above the lines coming out of the back of the pump. IF it has an electric shut-off and you don't pull a cable to shut it down.. It may have a black cover over it. Also in the pic is the bottom half of a black canister.. that's looks like your fuel filter housing.?? if so, it should be electric.?? Turn the key on and listen for it running.. if I'm not mistaken, it should run to a certain pressure and shut off.. then cycle. No help on the ground strap..
when I turn key I can hear a buzzing sound coming from the fuel filter housing that doesn't shut of. I will check the fuel shut off by taking of the single wire. I will also be getting a new fuel filter. Once it's running again I will more then likely out a new starter in.
Take the starter to a starter/alternator/motor repair shop. Especially if it's OEM, it's probably better quality repaired than the typical aftermarket starter. And especially if you skip diagnosing the starting issue with voltage readings, the repair shop can tell you if the starter is fine, or fix what's wrong. It's not that hard to take a fuel pressure test to check that the pump is working and the lines are clear.
I will test starter first before replacing. Any idea what kind of voltages I should be looking at
10V at the starter while cranking should be enough. That's with one test lead hooked to the starter side of the solenoid, and one hooked to the body of the starter. If you have 10 or more, then the starter is bad. Much less than that and the cables, solenoid, or battery are weak. 20 if it's 24V. Hook up that ground strap, and clean or replace the other ground cable that got hot first. That ground strap can go anywhere on the block that it will reach, just not an oil plug or that banjo bolt on the injection pump.
That earth strap should go to either the back of the block or to the the bell housing bolt but my memory says it on the bell housing bolt as i guess transmission been out and has been left off when stuck back together .Electric fuel pump in top of filter the black plastic housing should turn ign on leave it running till it goes quite and then turn off leave a short while and then repeat and should be good to go.These filter heads do cause problems with failing to work so i guess pull a pipe off and see if its pumping fuel up.
On my 94 210S, the starter was a pain to remove, hope yours is easier. After removing mine, the copper lead that comes from the solenoid to the starter was cracked and corroded and not getting the full amps needed to turn, causing slower engine starts. Personally, I would check that ground cable on the starter, if it's smoking, it's most likely loose or badly corroded, a good clean-up is what all it may need. On mine, the ground on the starter goes directly to the battery, I don't have a separate ground strap like you've shown here. All in all, my old starter was good, just needed that copper strap replaced, I did get a starter on ebay for $125.00 ( rebuilt) and she turns very fast now, starts within the second turn....on mine, the fuel primer is on the fuel pump, a lever on the side that you prime by hand.
Have fun getting that started off. I burned mine up on long cold starts. Purchased one off EBay. Best thing I ever did was buy an Odessey battery it was smaller than OEM but started so much better.
Does the hour meter work?
No hour meter does not work
I did a write up on replacing the hour meter. I purchased it from Summit Racing. The meter keeps track of the hours even though the display doesn't work. Purchased the new meter for $150 and put the new display in the old meter and had the current hours.
Can you send me the link to the forum. Would love to find out what it has for hours sense I bought it broken although I believe it's pretty low hours. Also theres no safety shuts is there involving any of the fluids? Thanks
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/construction-equipment/317438-jcb-212-hourmeter-fix.html
Does any one know if there is any safety's the will kill the machine if any guilds are to low? Or any way to check what the alarm is going off for
I don't remember any alarms. Just the parking brake alarm.
Yea when the machine quit alarm came right on. Today I drained water separator didn't see at water so clean fuel. But it didn't have much of a flow. Also noticed lift pump never shuts off no matter how long a let it sit with key turned. Still have to get a filter. Checked the fuel shut off and it still makes a very quiet noise.
By alarm do you mean the ign buzzer as this will operate as soon as you turn the key to ign on engine not running once engine is running should go out . reasons for buzzer to make a noise whilst engine running are hand brake on and machine in forward or reverse ,low battery charge rate will also put battery icon on dash panel , low trans pressure also light on dash panel , low engine oil pressure and light on dash, air filter blocked and light on dash, i think also there is a temp overheat as well. As far as you fuel you need to perhaps start with the basics at tank firstly by checking the tank is clean in side and that no floating debris also that the fuel pipes are not blocked in any way check each one in turn perhaps blow an air line down each to confirm. Fuel sediment trap if its the one with a plastic bowl with a 10mm nut on the top check that the o ring is under the nut and also the square section seal is in good shape as these will draw air in as they are on the suction side of things (but don' t over tighten the plastic bowl or it will pull the threaded rod out of the plastic ) As far as any shut off unless the machine has an immobilizer fitted and you have power to crank and start the machine and you have 12 volts to the stop solenoid on the injection pump your in business the stop solenoid some times fail you can pull these out and check the plunger pulls in when ign is turned on and released when its turned of the electrical terminals if old used to give pore connections may be if suspect crimp some new spade terminals on.
My filter is all black screw off bottom half with a lift pump on top. I messed with all ground and machine is turn over faster but it seem my starter is getting hotter more smoke and ground hooked to seliniod was glowing red and caused a small flame. With old battery is wouldnt do that new one is a high crankin 1050 cca. Two big ?
Also realized it's the power wire that's coming off the seliniod going into the starter that smoking and gettin hot not the ground
Seems like it's getting to much power
These are 12v I'm certain right not 24v
Yes 12 volt unless its an ex army machine and some were 24 volt but you would have twin batteries fitted perhaps the starter needs to be bench tested and may be refurbish or replace as a starting point on that one.just a thought no one has changed the battery cable for a smaller version by chance? On the fuel system that black filter is your main filter but should have a sediment trap some where on the chassis as well for the water / dirt before the pump/filter housing.
Unless it's a 6 volt system, you're not giving it too much power. You could have a dozen big batteries hooked up parallel and the starter will never get more than 12 volts. The starter draws as much as it needs or can draw. It sure sounds like the starter needs some work, but it's hard to tell from here with all the problems you have and no voltage tests.
Finally did some testing. Main power wire from seliniod to starter and grounded on start once craving started at 4 ,6,7,8, and pegged at 9ac. No 10. Tested ground of seliniod and power on seliniod and it read 12v at all times read 0 when cranking. Battery tested At 13dc touched 14 once. Got my new sediment filter in and can't get bowl to fill up. Any ideas
Did you clean out the sediment bowl on right side of machine? Filter should be on left side of engine.
Yea the one on the side of fuel tank.cant get it to fill but but can hear a gurgle in the tank when key it turned
Take it one step at a time, start with the tank, take the line off and make sure fuel flows out, it's not empty is it? go through the whole system piece by piece, or go halfway and see if there's fuel and work toward the blockage. Once you have the fuel pumping like it should, replace the battery cables that are burned up. And either test the voltage again, or bring the starter in to get tested or repaired.
check all the o rings on filters /traps and that the hoses are tight as it seems either drawing in air or you have a fuel blockage in the tank/pipework . Check to make sure the fuel hose coming from the tank is not crushed or tied to tight any where near the gearbox . Also take a look in the tank as you may have debris /rag stuck in the outlet pipe from the tank.
No, thats not it, 1050cca is fine. Your connection's at the starter "or" the starter itself is the problem. Also, were you able to "fill" the filter with fuel before installing it. Your alternator could be part of the problem also, something to think about.
Dsiss3, I just PM you links to the operator/service manuals for your machine. The operator manual goes over changing the fuel filter and priming the system. I have a 2004 as well. On the same side as the battery, there is a black plastic cover, in behind that is a large electrical connector with several fusible links. You might want to check those connections. Be warned that the rivnuts might slip if the bolts are rusted in, I ended up having to cut some of the bolts and weld in new nuts for the cover. Also check the actual connection where the wire connects to the terminal connection, I had to replace the terminal connection on the wire at the battery for ground wire.
Ok I filled the bowl but it just drains it down and I can't get it to pick up on the tank. I can't figure out what I need to do to injection pump. It mentions a priming level but I don't see one
What mentions a priming leveR ? I did, but others corrected me that it's an electric pump. It should pump fuel out of anything that's opened upstream of the pump anytime that pump is on.
Figured the fuel issue out was the filter just had some trouble with a air leak and couldn't get tank to pick up in sediment bowl. Now after testing the starter I know it's time for one. over the Internet what's my best option? Or should I get this one rebuilt? Best way to take it out? Do you have to drain hrydrulic fluid? Thanks
I bought one off EBay. Worked great. I think I would just have it rebuilt. Hope you have some double jointed arms. It's a pita.
Yea any tricks on gettin it out. Through the bottom or out the side motor skirt
I think it came out bottom. Been too long ago.
Drain hrydrulic fluid ?
Mine came out through the top. Take a picture of your machine with the side cover removed on the drivers side, and I'll try and tell you what to remove. Believe me, it won't be easy.
Ok also where's the best place to get one online
You'll need your serial number to get the right part # for the starter.
I think I got mine from Discount Starter & Alternator on ebay, That was in 2010.
Got my new starter in and decided after all I heard to not do it myself and called my diesel/hrydrulic guy and was surprised when he called 1 1/2 hours later saying it was done. All he had to do was remove fuel filter housing and trans dip stick. I was beyond amazed. Best 75 bucks I ever spent. Machine started right up on first cranks and my machine is running and staring better then ever. Thanks to anybody that responded to this posting