Hi All, I've got a JCB 525b-2hl telehandler which I've steadily been going over repairing bits and pieces. Whilst using it today, I completely lost forward drive on a hill. It just dropped out. I’ve checked the two terminals which plug into the solenoids which sit on the torque converter and they are showing 12volts when the rev/forward lever is selected. I’m still able to select and run it in reverse, in all gears. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to the problem, or were to start looking. Colin
Hi there, You could try swapping the solenoids as you could have a bad one! Also the valve itself can give bother!
Hi cps, Many thanks for the quick reply. If you can please bear with me as I'm kind of new to plant, however it's definately getting adictive. I've had a look at removing the forward solenoid, as it's the conclusion I came to, but I'm not completely sure how to remove it. I peeled back the metal tab which sits in the black plastic end cap and tried to unscrew the cap. The cap moves fractionally but felt as though it would break if forced any further. Do you know if that's the correct way to remove it, or is there another way?
No Problem, yea they that is how you remove it, you may need to turn it back and forth a few time but it should screw of ok!
Many thanks cps, I'll give it another go tomorrow. Try swapping them over. cj
Just a quick update, Tried swapping the solenoids over and they both work, so no joy there. Any other suggestions would be helpful. cj
Hi cj, it could be the spool in the valve itself, they can stick some times! Remove the solenoids and there should be 4 screws each side, take the covers of and check the springs and spool!
Hi cps, Hope you've had a good day. I removed the forward side solenoid, 4 screws, cover and checked the spool (now I know what it's called) and all seemed to be operating fine, refitted and still no forward drive. The forward drive went on my return from the village down the road, about 3 miles away. I reversed it home today, some funny looks from the locals. I told them I was reversing to save on deisel, should have a full tank by the time I get back. Some weren't sure if I was joking or not! When I got back I then tried swapping out the spools to test the reverse spool on the forward side to double check, but I couldn't remove one of the bolts on the cover. So I've descided to remove the whole valve assembly as I don't think it's ever been removed since new. Some of the bolts are well and truely corroded in so I might have to drill out some of the bolt heads on the top of the body and remove bolt shafts after. Interesting little project. I'll let you know how I get on. cj
But at least you now have a full tank of diesel! hahaha. good luck
Hi Reel Hip, Yah, the locals where a little confused. I've ordered a new gasket and 4no. new bolts which hold the shuttle body (I think that's it's name) assembly on the top of the gearbox. The supplier ordered the wrong ones so it's taken awhile. Still, I've done some further research and it could be a number of things. The first thing to check once the shuttle is back on is the oil level. I replaced the filter just before the problem occured. I did check the oil level after, but I'm not sure if it was the right procedure. So that will be the next thing. I'm hoping it's the oil as it's a quick fix If not oil, I'll check the oil strainer to see if it's caught any metal from broken internal parts. It could be a forward clutch pack that's let go, but I presume they weaken over time and not just let go all of a sudden. I've also managed to locate a JCB 3cx workshop manual which I think has the same gearbox so I now have diagrams etc. Makes all the difference. cj
Sorry I can't start a new topic yet. My th63 Telehandler slips out of gear when the machine's been running for about an hour. I shut it down and a few hours after it cools it runs fine again. My transmission Fluid level is high not sure if it gets too hot. I appreciate any ideas as to why this happens. Thanks Jay
Hi, These can strip the splines which hold the drive gear onto the clutch basket. Normally happens when people go from fwd / rev without stopping. If the clutch plates have broken up the friction material will be in the strainer in the bottom of the gearbox.
Hi Newty, I've remounted the shuttle body with no luck, still no forward drive. I was only driving up hill when I lost forward drive. Could this have stripped a spline? if so would there be debris in the stainer too? I'll drain the oil from gearbox and have a look in the strainer. I'll post up the findings. Many thanks Newty. Colin
Hi Colin, If it has stripped the splines there may not be debris in the bottom of the box. If its the clutch pack there will be debris. I see you have a workshop manual, the fwd clutch basket has a drive gear fasterned to it, The two are held together by a spline and then crimped so they are one unit. The spline gets worn away over the years so the gear spins in the clutch basket, thus no drive. Ive seen a couple do this. I think that you are going to have to bite the bullet and get the box out and split but check the strainer first. Hope this helps. Adam
Good advise there Adam, like you say he may have to bite the bullet! let us know what you find Colin Aiden
Just a bit more information, selecting gears is now not possible when the engine is running. If I switch the engine off I can select gears to my hearts content. Does this mean anything or shed more light on the problem? I'm wondering if it might just be too much oil in the gearbox. I've looked at the manual I downloaded to check ATF level. It says to run the engine for 10 minutes to fill filter etc. after filter change and then stop and let settle for 20 seconds and then check the level. Is this procedure correct as the level is above the max mark whilst the engine is running. I normally check ATF level whilst the engine is running.
Hi, Thats the correct way to check the oil level. But running it for a min the dip will be ok rather than 10. Too much oil will not cause drive problems from cold. Its difficult to diagnose faults over the internet, all i can do is use my experience to help guide you... If you select a gear then start the machine does it TRY to creep with the fwd/rev lever in neutral? If so... I'd go for the fwd clutch pack friction material being in the strainer in the bottom of the box and the steel plates eating themselves and causing the box to be being driven all the time which is why you cant select gears with the engine running. I think its time to pull the strainer from the box. 5 mins, a drain tray and a 13mm spanner and you will have a better idea of the condition of the internals.
Hi Newty, Many thanks for taking the time to help. It's very much appreciated. I'll drain the oil and remove the strainer to see what's in there. From memory it used to creep forward everso slightly when started in gear and selector set to neutal. Does not do that now. I'll drain the oil and have a look in the strainer.
Just drained ATF and removed strainer. There was about 2 tablespoons of black flakes in there. I presume thats clutch material.
Hi, Im affraid you are correct. Time to pull the box. I have made a cradle from some 12mm flat plate and some pieces of old box section that sits on my trolley jack to aid removal and replacement, just helps if im on my own in the workshop. Its also a good idea to reverse the machine onto some wooden blocks/planks under each wheel just to give you some more room under the machine and so you have enough height to wheel the gearbox out from under the machine on the trolley jack. I remove the offside front wheel and drag the box out that way.
Well Newty, this will be a first for me. I'm used to doing a bit of work on cars, motorbikes and even rallye-prepare Paris Dakar bikes in the past but never worked on big plant. So here goes!!! I'm a carpenter amongst other things so I'll probably make some form of support out of timber I have here on site. Have you any idea of weight, 2-300kgs I'd guess. The only other thing, for the minute , is should I raise the main lifting arm so I can get at the top part of the box easier?
Hi, I think it will be around 250kg as you suggest. Raise boom in the air with the bonnet attached. You may have a red u section piece on steel with the machine (ontop of right rear mud gaurd) which fits over the ram rod to prevent the boom from squashing you should something fail. There is a pipe which runs over the top of the gearbox, close to the cylinder head to the boom control valve chest under the cab. This needs removing from the valve and plugging. This is so when you have removed all connections and most of the bolts from the bell housing and its supported on the jack you lower the gearbox and the egine. The engine will pivot on the rear mounts and then chock the sump at the gearbox end. The unbolt the bell housing. And remove the box. This way gearbox cross member can stay on the machine and just remove the two bolts that run front to back that hold the cross member to the box. On a good day can have one on the floor in less than 2 hours. You will need a large open ended spanner to remove the gearbox dipstick tube retaining nut.
You're a superstar Newty, many thanks for the advice. I don't recall seeing the steel U section, I'll have a look. I've read through the dismantling procedure in the workshop manual and everything seems doable without any specialist tools. It mentions the tilting of the engine as you go. I've got a price for a reconditioned exchange reverse clutch pack at £360+vat which seems ok as it should be both sets of forward and reverse clutches. 2 hours! :notworthy, I'm going to take my time on this one as I don't particularly need the machine at the moment and I'm not back to uk for a while to do the exchange. So I can take my time and enjoy learning as I go. I'll take some pics and post a link as things progress. Once again many thanks. I'll keep posting Colin
Hi, The u section should be near the exhaust siliencer held onto the chassis with a T bolt but it may of been misplaced over time. If you can get the box out and stripped you will be able to rebuild the clutch packs yourself. You just need a workshop press to compress the retaining spring whilst you remove the circlip. I could match that price but would have to rebuild your unit. Anyhow Good Luck and keep posting progress.
Hi guys, I'm guessing this is like the JCB you're talking about? You can see the red safety lock attached to the rear mudguard.
That's the one. It's not on my machine so must have been lost over time. I'll see if I can fashion something out of what we have here on site. I suspect it sits over the ram rod and blocks out between the ram housing and boom. If not I should be able to place a large timber post in somewhere just in case. How are you getting on with your 525 HSV127? EDIT: Just had a quick look and the boom arrangment is quite differnt. I can't see anything on the mudguard to secure the strut either. Here's mine.
Tidy Loadall you've got there, what age is it? I think ours is a 1987 model. We've had the 525 since 1995, it's been a great work horse for us. Just recently we replaced the torque converter and trans pump, not because it stopped going but it had sprung a leak. Also while that was getting done we had all the rams that were leaking reconditioned, and the rims sand blasted and painted inside and out as they were getting a bit rusty. Ended up spending $20,000 which is not too bad since we hadn't spent a thing on it over the last 15 years.
15 year of service with no major repairs is good hey. I'm a great believer in keeping machines as simple as possible and was wondering just today if the modern machines will have the kind of life spans these have. Will they still be servicable once the electronics have packed up? Not sure what year my machine is, I guess it's around the mid 80's too. I bought it a couple of years ago for the selfbuild house I'm working on at the moment. I'd have liked a 4wSteer also but my budget wasn't enough at the time. Most of the heavy lifting is done, so I'm not so reliant on it at the moment. It's been a great machine needing just the usual service items until now. I'm thinking of going into traditional timber house framing next year once most of the house is complete. That's the main reason for getting it going again, it will be great for moving the larger timber members around and assembling frames.
Used the Komatsu mini digger to move the 525 around today ready for dismantling.
Hi guys, I've stripped everything off the box ready for it to come out. The only thing the manual doesn't give instruction for is the removal of the 2/4wheel drive cable from the cab to the 4 wheel drive clutch assembly. I've had the two allan key bolts out but I'm not sure how the cable is held in or how to remove it. Can anyone give me some instruction on this. Photo of cable below.
Ah yes that little bugger!!, What i normally do is remove it at the cab to get the trans out, then you can work at it better! Cant remember how it comes out of the box from the top of my head!
Hi cps, I've been a bit cheeky today and managed to blag a diagram of the cable assembly. It looks like you can remove the two allan key bolts and pull back the bracket to reveal a threaded stop collar that the cable passes through and the nipple backs up on. I assume you can then undo that collar inside to release the cable. I think your right Aiden, I'll have to remove the cable from the cab end to give enough slack to be able to pull the bracket back. I'll have a go.
Good evening, If you loosen the lock nut and run it all the way off the treaded part onto the black part of the cable. Then remove the allen keys and then turn the body anti-clockwise so it ends up also on the black part of the cable and they you can slide the nipple out of its slot. Bingo. When you drop the box try to keep the torque convertor with the gearbox but try not to lever the tin plate away from the flywheel with too much force as the bend the plate.
I was planning on making up a cradle using sterling borad I have here on site. There are a few people here that can help me man-handle the box free. I'll keep box and torque converter together. Point noted about the tin plate.
Went for the strop around the box in the end, using the mini digger over the engine bay to lower down. Box is now pride of place in the front room. Eric and Bob giving me a hand.
I hope you have put some cloths down in the front room fiirst! You can leave the disk on the output shaft and in the casing when you strip the gearbox then you dont upset the colapsable spacer between the taper roller bearing. Its worth removing the pump from the front of the box and there should be a small button head screw that can be removed and then the pump will split to check for internal wear. Keep the pictures coming!
The front room is not quite as bad as it seems. I built the garage (100m2 over two floors) first on this project so I had somewhere to live whilst building the house. The ‘garage’ ground floor is the kitchen, shower room, small lounge and garage all in one space. The room in the roof is the bedroom.
I couldn’t wait to get into the thing last night so I had it apart. Unfortunately I did remove the front disk. I see what you mean, you don’t have to remove it as the shaft it’s attached to comes away with the casing. I’ll have to tackle refitting that later. I might even replace the seal on that shaft as it’s apart. Assuming that I’ve read the diagrams correctly, the photograph shows the forward clutch pack on the left and reverse clutch pack on the right. Forward clutch pack being nearest the torque converter end of the input shaft. On first inspection, the disks in the forward clutch pack look very close together compared to the reverse clutch pack. If the friction disks are the same type as used in wet clutches for motorbikes, then I can’t see much/any friction material on the friction plates. Some have the friction material flaking away, even on the reverse clutch. The gear seems to be firmly attached to the forward clutch basket, however, the gear next to the reverse clutch basket spins and has some slight wear rings on the face of the clutch basket. Is the gear next to the reverse clutch basket supposed to spin? View attachment 81067
To my untrained eye, the rest of the box seems in pretty good shape. Very little wear on gear faces and the synchro’s look good too. I don’t think this machine has had a hard life. I’ll have a look at removing the oil pump and checking for wear. Is there anything else worth doing whilst it’s apart?
I've checked the oil pump and there is no play. I also checked the brass bush inside the oil pump shaft over the the clutch shaft and again no play.
Good progress. The grears on the fwd/rev pack should be locked to the relevent baskets. You need to remove the sealing rings from the ends of the pack and lever the bearings off. Start with a small chisel then get a heel bar each side and they should slide off easily. Then the clutch baskets should slide off each end. Re: the pump see if there are any score marks between the face on the rear section of the pump and the gears. also the shaft for the disk, is there wear where the taper roller bearing runs where it meets the other shaft, they tend to wear through the case hardening as they dont use and outer bearing case. And the nut in the center of the disk will just want nipping up when you re-install unless you replace the collapsable spacer that sits between the to shaft support bearings. You will see if if you fick out the seal and lift out the bearing.
Dismantled the clutch assembly today (excluding pistons). Found that the friction plates were very much on their way out in one basket and completely non existent in the other. Also, the gear spline has sheered on one of the baskets (left basket in second photo below). Well Newty, your diagnosis has been correct on all counts, friction plates and a sheered spline from gear to basket :salute Finally got to use a pair of large ratchet circlip pliers that I bought in a set. Thought I'd never get round to using them :thumbsup Sheered spline in basket and friction plates flaking in hand One set of counter plates has blued with heat Baskets and plates removed from shaft Checked end of disk shaft, can't see any wear or ridges in the raised bearing face. A couple of questions: Is it worth stripping the pistons at this stage? Do I replace all counter plates even though one set looks ok? Do I replace both clutch baskets just in case? I'd rather be sure and replace for long term. This is my thinking on minimum parts list: 1no. New clutch basket 6no. Counter plates (1 set) 14no. Friction plates (2 sets) 1no. Disk shaft oil seal 1no. Disk shaft end nut 1no. Oil pump front seal 1no. Oil pump rear seal 2no. O'rings (main casing seals) 1no. Gear shift housing gasket 1no. Layshaft end plate gasket. 1no. Shuttle body gasket 1no. Strainer gasket 2no. Selector detent springs (whilst they're out) 1no. Exhaust gasket 1no. tube liquid gasket 15 litres? ATF Oil (not sure what type at the moment) I already have some threadlock. I'm happy to replace anything you guys think is worth replacing. What do you think? Edit: Also checked back plate of oil pump and it has no scouring.
Hi, Not the worst one ive seen. I had one where the counter plates welded them selfs together and put the box in constant drive. I would remove the pistons as your this far and seem to have plenty of know-how. The generally end up becoming d section rather than o section over time. The blue'd counter plates will be fine to go back in. You will need the sealing rings on the ends of the shaft. If these fail you either end up with no drive or loss of pressure resulting in low clamping force on the plates whilst in drive thus buring the plates. And the collapsable space of the disk shaft between the bearings. Have you checked price/avalability of the clutch basket??
That takes some doing to friction weld those disks together. I've seen over-heated clutches on enduro bikes, usually where someone has been stuck in a bog and cooked the clutch trying to get out. It can also be a problem in deep loose sand in the dunes for rallye raid bikes. I've sent out a couple of emails for prices on basket, plates and gaskets for reassembly. I'll pm you where. I'll make sure I change the sealing rings at the same time. I've not got a press here to push back the pistons but I have got a couple of good sash cramps that I'll bolt together. Be nice to complete the job. I'll have to also order the seals for the pistons too in that case. I'm away this weekend so I'll probably have to do that Monday evening.
Dismantling pistons from clutch shaft.
Hi All, Parts have arrived and seem to be in order. The sealing rings are the newer plastic type which I wasn't expecting but should be fine I guess. Just a quick question. Should I use a smear of grease on the clutch piston ORings to help fitting? I know some ORing's don't like grease. Many thanks Colin
Hi all, Just to let you know the 525hl was running around like a spring chicken today. I remounted the repaired box over the weekend and put some oil in it today. Forward, Reverse and all gears are working well. I can now select gears whilst the engine is running too. No forward tolt on starting either. So a very big thank you to all that helped. Just need to refurbish the breaks and change a front axle oil seal that's leaking now. Once again, many thanks.
Man, that's about the cleanest work bench I believe I have ever seen! :tong Nice work cj-525hl, good to hear you got it all sorted out and working.
Many thanks Willie, It was made all the easier from the help on this forum. Now the bench can go back to being a dining room table!
Oh, now that's perfect! LoL
Need help/a manual for/similar assitance to this post... with a jcb 525b-4hl Hi guys! I just signed up because this forum/thread is about the best information i have found about jcb telehandlers.... The machine im working on for a friend has no drive at all... i cant select any gears... forward, reverse,4wd and 2wd... and all 4 gears dont make a difference to movement of the telehandler... The clutch cable looks stretched... and when i put my foot on the clutch pedal it doesnt feel like its taking up enough to disengage... Could this be the problem? would that stop the box from selecting ANY gear/drive? Ive done the basics like check fluids etc... ive read about the gearbox oil strainer in previous post's and will check that once i have some diagrams/drawings/a manual so i know what im pulling apart! ive just raised the boom up and supported it so i can check it out, i really need a copy of a manual/exploded diagrams... is anyone able to assist? cj-525hl if you still have that manual handy let me know!!! i google searched everywhere for manuals etc... and the only thing i found was microfisch copy's of the parts list on ebay :/ Thanks in advance! Stew from down under
Hi Stew, My jcb 525 has a Syncro Shuttle Gearbox, there is no clutch cable just a commander lever by the stearing wheel that operates the shuttle valve to engage the forward or reverse clutch pack. The 'clutch pedal' is just a cut-off switch to the shuttle valve which replicates having the forward/reverse lever in neutral. I'll pm you the link to the manual I downloaded. Hope this helps cj Edit. Stew, I think you need to enable 'Private Messages' function in your profile
Hey CJ! i checked my privacy settings and it appears i can recieve PM's from admin's and other members... but the funny thing is when i try and view my own profile it says i dont have permission to view my own profile??? heh... i think the mod has to do something with new accounts to accept them or something like that... if you want to email the manual to me.... [email protected] (remove the nospam bit) Stew
So from my understanding... it might be related to the shuttle valve!!!!!!!!! the 525 im working on has been sitting there for YEARS! when it was left where it is now... it had issues getting into reverse... but would still get into forwards, the owner left it, and now it doesnt select any drive... im getting a friend to help me tomorrow so i can get him to try and actuate the forward/neutral/reverse selector manually... if that doesnt work, i might have to pull the box out...
Hi guys, I have been reading this thread, all too familiar, but my problems are not over yet. I have a JCB Loadall 520M-2 pre telescopic boom and only 2 wheel drive, which dumped the syncro oil out of the bell housing. I replaced the torque converter, oil pump and seal, put it all back together dry, but cant get the oil back in! I have extended the filler pipe, removed every plug and pipe trying to get the air out and the oil in, even to drilling a hole in the top of the casing, ...... oil and a bit of air came out. I have got maybe 1.5 gallons in of the 4.5 gallons I need to get in. I assume the fluid is not getting into the torque converter, but I am unsure about starting the engine, I assume the pump will push the oil into the torque converter but as I am not sure I dont want to start the engine for fear of damaging something running dry (we did grease the lip seal on the pump housing before inserting the torque converter. Maybe I should have filled the torque converter before I fitted the syncro shuttle? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I have topped her up several times when she started to leak and no problems. But now, take a pipe off the oil cooler rad and the oil runs in (and out of the pipe) but both oil cooler pipes are at the bottom or the cooler and no way of filling it from the top or letting the trapped air out of the oil cooler to allow it ti fill up. I would love to know where cj-525hl found a manual to download, my expensive handbook tells me nothing, just says fill it up. Not the same machine I know but if it covers the syncro shuttle it might have the answer I need. Thanks in anticipation.
Hi Blastcleaner! the manual cj-525hl pointed me in the direction of is jcb_3cx_4cx_214_215_217_workshopmanual_sec_wat so its not specifically for 525's, and its more for JCB tractors, but the 525 has the same engine and gearbox oriented the opposite way around to a tractor... same drive train Which box do you have? powershift or synchro shuttle? pm me and i will provide you a link to download it at...
This one get solved? Have a 525b -4. Drove both directions fine into barn in the fall - now no fwd or rev in late winter. Seems to make some noise at solenoid on trans when actuating fwd/rev w/key on. Wondering if that cut off switch may have failed keeping it in neutral ...per "The 'clutch pedal' is just a cut-off switch to the shuttle valve which replicates having the forward/reverse lever in neutral. " Trans fluid measures high on stick... not red fluid... more clear like someone may have put hyd or engine olil in there. Bought trans fluid filter... haven't drained yet. ...stuck in neutral Michigan style