Hi all, my first post here, I have a John Deere 240 skid steer with a brand new battery that we use on the farm. I was using it to push snow the other day. I started it in the shop, loaded it on the trailer kept the motor running, hauled it to another site to push snow. After completing the job i loaded it back on the trailer but this time shut the engine off for the trip home. It was fairly cold out that day (-18c) and when I went to start it to unload I got nothing but a click coming from the starter with nothing turning over. I then pulled the trailer with skid steer into the shop and let it sit overnight. The next morning it started right off and I was able to unload it. I was told that the starter solenoid can act up on these especially when they are cold and that there might be a wiring change available to put full current to the starter solenoid. Can anyone here please point me to what might be involved to make that wiring change? Thanks
sounds like moisture in the starting sol. that froze
I have seen some Case models that when pushing snow moisture gets in to starter and then freezes not allowing it to restart until thawed. In fact, this fall used a small amount self regulating heat tape and wrapped it around the starter of one unit terminated it to a male cord end and the owner plugs it in with the block heater and has not had any issues with frozen starter yet this year.
I had an 1845c with the same problem. Turned out the ignition switch was going bad. Not sure why the cold made it act up, but all I'd get is a click from the starter. Replace the ignition switch and everything worked perfect again.
Thanks for your help fellas, I appreciate it.
I may have found the wiring change I mentioned. An automotive type relay added to the starting circuit like this.
There are lots of wiring diagrams, if you google 'remote starter solenoid'. Also you're better off using a 'ford' type solenoid instead of a 40amp relay. They have complete kits on ebay, this is a common problem for 1845c too, but the kit will work for any machine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Case-Uni-loader-1845c-Starter-Upgrade-Solves-Clicking-/333667358309
Go with a constant duty solenoid will last life of machine. You can use a cheaper solenoid for this application but the constant duty will last
I think I will go with the heavier duty solenoid as you guys suggest. thanks for the tip.
I'm going to add one more thing to this thread. Realize that by adding a remote solenoid, you are only covering up the problem. Your machine didn't need it when new, and it worked just fine then. Most of the time this problem is cause by corrosion or rubbing in the wires going to the ignition switch, from the ignition switch back to the starter, or the ignition switch itself. This causes not enough amps to flow to trigger the solenoid to start. A remote solenoid requires less current to trigger, but the underlying problem is still there. It will continue to corrode and eventually fail complete, even with a remote solenoid. Then you be back to square one and have to fix the original problem.
I understand what you mean by perhaps masking the problem. Sometimes finding an intermittent problem can be a shot in the dark but a total failure might actually be easier to find trouble shooting wise. I figure by adding this new solenoid or relay it might help me to fix the actual problem. The way I see it by adding the new relay if the problem persists I should be able to trouble shoot it in two halves. The first being if the new relay fails to energize that might lead to a problem with perhaps the ignition switch, safety lockout contacts or wiring or the second being if the relay energizes but no starter action then perhaps a wiring problem after the new relay or starter issues. I only hope that its not starter related as that thing looks like a bear to remove. It was hard enough just to get at the starter connections to add the wiring change. Thanks again.
Yeah, I totally understand. Just trying to give you more information. I went through all this a couple years back. Added a remote solenoid, thought it fixed the problem, 2 weeks later the ignition switch completely shorted out. Good thing I smelled the smoke before my machine and shop when up in flames.
I recently had the single click and no start issue on my 1845c. My battery is good and connections clean and tight. I purchased an external solenoid kit and installed it. Now when I turn the key I get louder, rapid clicks, similar to a dead battery. Putting a charger on the battery or directly to the starter solenoid doesn't change anything. From earlier comments it sounds like maybe my next best step is the ignition switch? Any other thoughts? Here is the relay:
I'm going to assume you wired the external solenoid correctly. So the first thing I'd do is measure the voltage at the external solenoid while you try to start it. It should be close to battery voltage. If it's not, then you probably have a bad ignition switch. They are cheap and easy to replace. Probably not a bad idea anyway on an old machine. Next I'd check the voltage while starting at the starter solenoid, again it should be close to battery voltage. If it is, then you may just have some bad contacts inside the starter solenoid. They can be replaced. 1845c use the same starter as other cummins engines like the 5.9L in trucks. I ordered a set of contacts and replaced them in my machine. If all that checks out, then you may just have a bad starter. Might also be worth trying a different battery or pull the current one and have it load tested. They can go bad and sometimes (internal short) even putting a charger or jumper cables on them won't get a machine started. You need to remove and replace, in that case.
phil314, thank you for the reply. I checked and double checked the new wiring and am pretty sure I have it correct. From post to post on my battery at rest is 12.5v. From large post to large post (is that correct?) on the external solenoid is the same 12.5v when at rest. With the key turned and it clicking away the voltage across the external solenoid posts drops to 3.8v. If I am measuring across the correct solenoid posts then it seems the ignition switch may be the problem. I agree that a new switch won't be a bad idea in any case so I'll replace that. Do you know the combination of wires I would need to connect to hotwire across the back of the switch to see if that will send enough juice? Here is the switch wiring:
3.8v is not good. The small terminals - 1 should go to the switch, 1 to ground, measure from switch post to ground post or any other ground on the external solenoid. Low voltage there would indicate a bad ignition switch. But you said the larger terminals. For them 1 should be wired directly to 12v battery source, the other should go to the trigger of the start. If that is reading 3.8v, that would indicate the solenoid on the starter is not working properly. When triggered, the voltage across the large posts on the external solenoid should drop to 0. To bypass the ignition switch just as a test. Jump across the 2 large post on the external solenoid.
The voltage across the two small external solenoid posts while cranking is just over 4. I mentioned that after installing the external solenoid, when turning the key there is rapid clicking. I assume this is coming from the newly added solenoid. Jumping across the two larger external solenoid posts produces a slower, louder clicking, which I am pretty sure is coming from the starter solenoid. Adding a charger in engine start mode and then jumping across the large posts of the external solenoid produces one loud click and then a hum/buzz from the starter solenoid. I'll pull the starter and see what I can see.
Try measuring your battery voltage directly while starting. It's beginning to sound like you've got a bad battery. Either that or you have a bad positive or negative cable coming off the battery. Or your starter solenoid has a major short.
So I had burnt out the transformer on my old charger trying to start a 24v system last winter when it was just too cold for that particular machine. I've been trusting the fancy new digital display charger I replaced it with when it tells me the battery is 95% or fully charged, and I'm also trusting that the engine start mode is supplying enough juice to actually crank a fairly small engine with a block heater. I finally pulled a pickup over, hooked the cables up, turned the skid steer key and it cranked and fired right up. I doubt I needed the external solenoid at all. Sometimes the learning in "live and learn" comes a slowly. Thank you for the assistance!