My John Deere 310B backhoe (in order of severity) needs the crowd, both swing and one stabilizer cylinder rebuilt. I'd like some advice on removal, seal parts source and any other advice that would help. I helped repack a cylinder once and have done some online research, but have some questions to hopefully make the process smoother and not damage the rod guide. Rod guide removal- leave cylinder on the machine the set screw is removed and I tap the barrel with a mallet several times, I'm unsure on the best method for unscrewing the guide to avoid damage. Some folks online use a punch, air chisel or pipe wrench for the old likely seized guides, newer ones use a spanner wrench. The vibration from the air chisel would have it's advantages. The spanner only grabs one slot so I don't expect to break the guide loose with it, just speed up unthreading/threading. I could heat the body if necessary. The pipe wrench would certainly scar the guide so that's a last resort. Is there a tool or could one be made to seat in at least two of the slots? This would spread the force over two slots instead of one. Seal sources I'd like comments on quality etc. and seal removal/install information Of course the dealership is trustworthy but up to 4 times more costly over aftermarket Hercules Baum hydraulics Tornado Tractor parts ASAP Of course I like to save money but dont want to regret it Seals kits seem to have extra seals to cover several applications, would be nice to have only seals required. I plan to use a pvc pipe to place old removed seals on in order of removal to match new seals Should (could I reasonably) hone the bore? I’ve searched this site and online but any links, videos etc. would be appreciated.
Below is a link to a video I found and the author has several others for a D model that appear to be similar. They appear to be pretty thorough and I’ll study them. However I plan to borrow a large impact instead of the cheater bar set up to break the large bolt loose. Other suggestions/tricks would be appreciated
If you plan to use an impact, you will need a high torque 1" drive and a 3/4" hose to supply the volume that the gun will need to crack those bolts. When I did my crowd cylinder, I built a channel stand, and put a 4x4 in it to rest the boom on. I also took the bucket off so the boom would be lower to the ground. You could dig a hole and set the bucket down in it if you want to leave the bucket on. Be aware, the rod is heavy! As you can see, I used another tractor to handle the rod.
No offense intended, but isn't the guide you refer to actually the gland ? None of the cylinders need to be removed, especially the swing cylinders. If you have or can get an engine hoist, they work quite well for removing the crowd cylinder or just the rod. The fine adjustment capability of the hoist helps line up the rod in the bore on reassembly. A photo of the gland would help members to advise you as to what type of wrench to use for turning the gland in or out. Honing cylinder bores should be done by a professional shop if it needs it. IMHO.
I purchased my seal kits from CEA-Services in fla. They are Hercules brand. I called and they found what I needed at a good price. Note that, like many things, seal kits are in short supply. Also bought some tools. Gland nut pin spanner wrench, and some larger pins 3pc Hydraulic Cylinder Piston Rod Seal U-Cup Installation Tool Snap ring pliers A cheap harbor freight pick set A stout 3/4" drive breaker bar for the gland nut spanner
No problem, I started to call it a gland, but Deere calls it a rod guide. The engine hoist is a great idea especially since I don’t have another machine to lift with.
I’m interested in the spanner tool if it works on the square slot style rod seals like my backhoe. They’re probably most useful on the round holes on the face of the rod seals. If nothing else it will speed up the process once it’s broke loose. The rod seal installation tools seem real handy. I’ll look into getting them and the reverse (?) pliers. Thanks for the list and pictures!
They sell a hook spanner for the square slot https://www.tooldiscounter.com/product/otc-adjustable-hook-spanner-wrench-otc885 This is the u-cup tools I bought...you can find many at varying prices. These work good. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223486453439 Here are a real good set of USA made pliers. I purchased these in addition to the ones in the pics https://www.ebay.com/itm/163827242441?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
You might be hard pressed for space to use those wrenches on your swing cylinders.... the crowd and swing are the same set up are they not....?.... big gland nut?( rod guide nut) I just took a drift pin and gave it a wrap.... round and round.... Mine were not hard fast in the bore. Came loose easily. Rod came out simple too. Now... I had a shop replace the seals.... but I pulled the rod on one ( swing) and pulled the whole cylinder on the other ( not needed... easier to just pull the rod with the bore on the machine)
I built a tool for the swing cylinders from a piece of scrap driveshaft, and welded four teeth to a steel ring inside, the driveshaft fits over the rod and I tightened it with a ratchet strap around the base of the cylinder. It was not going to slip. Used a bar for torque. There is always a way to get them loose if you can't get them with plan A, B, or C.
Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it a few bite marks from a pipe wrench doesnt bother me one bit just dont let it slip and run a file over when done Steel glands dont damage that easy did some the other day that I set up the four foot pipe wrench on and pushed on it with a 980G loader you can hardly see the mark If you use Hercules catalog to find your seals then enter the part # at fastliftparts.com they drop ship out of Hercules warehouse at a very much lower price
Do the stabilizer cylinder first, because it's the easiest to work on, and then you'll know what you're doing with the crowd cylinder, which you can lay down and make it easy enough to get to. The swing cylinders are a different style gland, right? I don't hone unless there's a reason to, like they're scratched up. If the seals just got old and fell apart, then put new seals only. The piston wear bushings will probably be fine also. Use thick sheet aluminum rolled up to cover the rod surface so you don't ding it with a pipe wrench. As long as you understand the function and tricks of that JD style gland, they're easy. Push the cylinder out with the hydraulics to loosen the retaining nut, then retract the cylinder a bit before shutting off and disassembling.
Stabilzer first makes sense, I’ll plan to then do crowd, then finish with swing. Wrapping the rods is good idea too. I’ll plan to use punch and/or air hammer before pipe wrench. After tapping on cylinder body outside gland threads. The swing cylinders glands are the same ‘slotted’ (? )style as crowd and others. I want to be sure I understand using the machine hydraulics to push the rod out; first loosen the gland, then briefly operate to extend rod. Makes sense so I don’t have to fight pulling it out by other means. If I got that right, I would think there’s some fluid spraying/leaking that I’ll put an old cut inner tube around.
The repurposed driveshaft sounds interesting, once I found one, I’d have to get someone to weld/fabricate. I’d like to see a picture of it just in case I go that route. Others online fabricated a half moon reinforced tool with a long handle that the ultimately used an air chisel on, it was a crowd cylinder though. I'm planning on borrowing a good quality air chisel for the gland. I’ll probably ‘blunt’ the end with a grinder. For the rod nut, I’m going to borrow a 1400 ft lb impact wrench and impact socket. I haven’t found size of rod bolt, I’m guessing 1-1/4” - 2”?
It was already mentioned earlier, but you need a very capable compressor AND a large air hose to knock that nut off with an impact. A little pancake compressor and 1/2 air hose isn't going to work.
If you where close id loan you all the wrenches we made for 310b cylinders from when we still had ours.
NO, watch Salaam's video in post #2 again. That is the unique JD style gland, the nut is just a locknut to keep the gland pulled out. The gland is held only by a wire ring inside the cylinder, outside the gland. The swing cylinders are different, I BELIEVE. more like a standard gland where the whole gland unscrews, I can send you the tool if it will fit yours, but give it a try first, and post a picture of your different cylinder styles, and we'll figure it out.
I can borrow a Milwaukee 18 volt cordless 1/2” impact that I’m told has 1400 ft lbs. I know it’s been said to get a 3/4” air , but I haven’t found one yet. I’ll work on it, as I probably won’t get to it until 8/21, at the earliest. I have a 30 gal(?) vertical craftsman compressor, but a 1/2” air hose. I can get the compressor next to the machine and use as short of hose as possible. I’ll try to borrow a larger hose and larger 3/4” or 1” impact. I’ll try to get as much as possible lined up ahead of time but it may be that I will try the best with what I have; might have to delay and gather other things.
It looks like the 310D in the online videos is a little different than my 310B, pictures below: The first picture is the crowd cylinder. It appears to be a one piece gland, similar to the second picture of the swing cylinder. The third picture is the stabilizer cylinder and it’s two piece, similar to the crowd cylinder in 310D video.
If I have it right off of JD’s site my B has a nut on the end of the rod (first picture) as opposed to a bolt like the D (second picture) . I first need to be sure of the correct seal kits to order. It looks like the crowd and swing cylinders use AR105387.
somehow I can't figure how to delete an inadvertent duplicate post
It looks like the stabilizer kit is RE18754
Yes, the stabilizer is the only one with the JD locknut style that you would push out to remove the locknut. The others have to have the pressure relieved before trying to loosen. Only use the hydraulics to push the rod out as a last resort, they should usually pull out cleaner, by hand,or by a pin through the end and a chain around something to pull with, by hand, or chain binder/come along, and use lots of wood/cardboard to protect the parts from falling.
Swing cylinder gland access is tight for the plier style gland wrench. I’m trying to do this without buying to many special tools, if I can’t borrow might end up buying some. Yes the crowd and swing are the same style, big gland nut. I might try the drift pin first.
Would someone be able to double check me on the seal kit numbers? (1983 310B) Stabilizer = RE18754 Crowd and swing = AR105387 I hope to order from Baum hydraulics tomorrow
I looked at mine closer today..... there is more room than I thought.... My swings both loosened up easy...And I used a pipe wrench to re-install and tighten. As for the stabilizer and boom... they are the style with the internal snap ring. I have no experience with those.... but looks straightforward. Sorry can't help with those seal kits...got mine thru 310B Backhoe Seal Kits | HW Part Store ....... but the guy that did my install had issues and had to get up with the parts people there.... but they did get it figured out.
We’ll, I have the majority of my seal kits and two on the way. I have a total of 9 cylinders leaking to varying degrees that while I’m set up, I’m planning on tackling. Stabilizer (smaller) first to get an idea of the process then onto the crowd, boom etc. Also have tools and supplies gathered up that will hopefully be what are needed.
The 4-1 bucket cylinders are leaking slightly too, but it’s a Gannon bucket and I can’t find part numbers, so I might open one up and get help to match the seals up. Unless I can find part number(s). The dusty conditions have really showed the leakers!
Good luck with your repacks.... 10-4 on the conditions.. had to pull a floorboard to get at a battery cable... and man I could grow plants under there
Two of us got four cylinders done on Saturday in about 9 hours. Started with the two stabilizers and then the two swing cylinders. As others suggested, we started with an easier, perhaps smaller cylinder first. Like most new tasks, the first one takes much longer. Placing the old removed seals on a piece of pipe was very helpful to confirm orientation and helped us be more certain we had the new ones installed correctly. Of course we took some pictures too. The kits come with extra seals since the kits cover several models, so having extras and similar seals made it a little interesting! Seating the wipers was kinda tricky getting the correct size driver (socket). The Milwaukee 1/2” impact was a time saver and handled what we needed. The first one we reattached the rod end back onto the stabilizer to hold it while using the impact. We decided to try the others with the assembly out on the floor and the impact removed the nuts just fine. I borrowed the impact but buying one would be justifiable if someone has a few to do as well it could be used for other uses of course. Not an easy job and it’s dirty of course, but doing it ourselves and learning is rewarding. Saving money is always nice too!