When I hit the footswitch the motor will rev up some times and other times there is no response. I have checked all the wiring to and from the E201 box and actuator . I'm thinking its a relay , some days it will not work at all and other days it will work intermittently . What relay should I be looking at to replace or should I buy a few and start to swap them out. Anybody have a part# for them? Also what is the timing for the Ford LSG 423? thanks
I use Echlin #AR272 as a replacement for the Bosch type 5 pin relays used in the "H" series. No issues with them so far. The timing is listed as 10 degrees BTDC
Be sure to check your boom horizontal limit switch too. If it's not set right or sticking it won't let the engine go into high RPM. There are two relays for high engine, on the L.H. bank of six bosch type relays, they are the center two. (#3 & #4 counting from the top down)
Are you sure you have an E201 governor control box? The wiring diagrams show the Ford LRG423 on the 40H used an E331 controller. That's not to say yours can't work with an E201. When you say the engine won't rev up, do you mean rev to high rpm or just slightly higher than idle speed?
LSG 423 if there is a difference. When I say it won't rev up . I mean you press the footswitch and you get no response from the engine other than idle. Then out of the blue the motor will rev up and hold the RPMs at the set level. Then within 5- 10 min. all it will do is idle with no response pressing the footswitch. When its working right I have idle, mid range rpms and high engine rpms.
Thanks, I'll have to pick up a few and start swapping them out to fix this govenor problem. Ive checked all the connections and even wired the controller directly with no change, it works when it wants to.
I haven't worked on a 40H with an LSG engine, all the ones I've worked on have either been diesel powered or LRG Ford engine. The LRG requires the E-331 because it has distributorless ignition. If you have an LSG Ford, you should have an ignition distributor on your engine, that's why your machine is using an E-210 controller. The only way an E-201 can give you a mid range speed is by having a wire connected to the aux terminal on the E-201, I think it's terminal #5, not certain. The only time the engine can go into hi rpm speed is when your operating the drive controller, have the high engine selected at platform, and boom is below horizontal. I haven't had to repair one that has a mid range rpm speed when you depress foot switch, not certain how the wiring is doing that. But I'm near certain you would have to have a wire connected to aux terminal on E-201 to do mid speed.
which terminal would be the aux terminal. It does have the circuit board in the control panel that would be for mid range i would think.
Ahh, you have the E-244 mid range board in your lower control box. I'm thinking the aux terminal on an E-201 is terminal #5 on the E-201, can't remember to be certain though. If your machine works the way I think it does, when you press the foot switch, it sends a voltage signal to the dump valve relay. The E-244 is probably triggered by the dump valve circuit, which would give you and rpm slightly above idle rpm when you depress footswitch. Then high rpm comes when your driving the machine and select hi engine speed with the toggle at platform. See if you can locate terminal #5 on E-201, see what wire is on it, then chase the wire, it should go to the mid range board in the lower control box. I think you said that when the machine acts up, that you lose mid range rpm and hi rpm at the same time, then both will start working again. Is that about right?
That is exactly what is happening. It works best on rainy humid days and usually not at all on dry days. It does have the E244 midrange board or remote speed set is what the PG website calls it . #5 terminal goes to the board with 2 wires coming back to #1 and #2 terminals . Is there a relay or something on the board that can be effected by humidity. Like i said ,it works great when is very humid or right after rain and usually not at all on dry days. Yesterday I swapped out all the relays with 2 new relays that I had with no change in performance ( another hot dry day). Thanks for your help, I've been running this at a high idle from the carb just to get something done. Mark
Ok, never gave this advice before...but here goes; mount a garden spinkler on the top of machine to keep it wet and happy. (sorry, couldn't resist that.) That is interesting info. The hi engine speed (for drive) and the mid engine speed (when foot switch depressed) are two separate circuits working independent of each other. The chances of both these circuits to fail, then come back to life, at the exact same time is just not likely. And if you had a failure of the E-244, the Precision Governor would do one of two things; 1) you would only have mid engine speed with no hi speed, or 2) you would have only hi engine speed with no mid speed. A failure of E-244 wouldn't cause both speeds to not work. When the engine speeds are off line, have you tested 12V positive at terminal #1 and good ground (earth) at terminal #2 on Precision Governor terminal strip?
I will check the 1 and 2 terminal, they have checked out before with batt voltage and a good ground. I even ran a separate wire for the ground. Is the dump relay called Proportional Dump relay or bang bang dump relay as it is labeled in the lower control box. The wiring diagram from the JLG site is very hard to read. My high engine relay has 2 white, a brown black stripe and a clear with a diode. Govenor relay (idle-run) has 2 orange /green , 1 brown and a blue/ gray ( not black , very light color?) I'm still thinking its a relay that involves the governor because I have everything working and then nothing . I was in the rain when working on it yesterday and it didn't work right, so your sprinkler theory is busted .HAHA I'll have another look at it today, keep thinking, thanks. Mark
Drat! I just knew the garden sprinkler would do the trick. Just damn! :tong Yep, the JLG schematics are not easy to read in the first of all. Secondly, the print isn't clear in many areas making it difficult to read the text. Sometimes it helps to print the individual pages your looking at. Printed pages seem to be more clean than viewing the pages on your computer. Proportional dump valve and bang bang dump valve are seperate components. The proportional dump is activated when you depress the foot switch. The bang bang dump is activated when you operate basket rotate, basket level, steering, and telescope if yours uses a toggle switch for telescope. Problem I'm having is the schematics for the LSG/LRG Ford show an E-331 controller. The only schematics I see that use the E-201 and E-244 mid range board is the LSG/LRG with hydraulic controls. Does your machine have hyd controls or electrical controls?
I was wondering the same thing. All the controls are activated with electric switches that control hydraulic valves etc. Could you explain the difference? Yesterday a new problem popped up. The usual governor problem and then after flipping the select switch back and forth from ground to platform ,I start to have problems with the lift and swing. The lift was scary, it would drop when i tried to drive then would drop when trying to go up, then the swing would not stop going to the right and then not go left. When I say drop ,it would drop fast with no control, good thing I was only a few feet off the ground. I switched the 2 relays and I was back to just the governor problem. When I switch from platform to ground ,I get a kick of the actuator like when I first turn on the master switch when its on ground. I'm going to order a new select switch and the 2 relays for swing and lift. Any other ideas because this idling around is killing me , its like building a house in slow motion. Thanks Mark
It sounds like your describing a machine with electric PQ proportional controllers, can't say for sure though. Look in the parts catalog you downloaded, go to the "Platform" section, there you'll find the different control options they offered. You'll have PQ controls without proportional telescope, PQ controls with proportional telescope, OEM controls, and hydraulic controls. You'll be able to tell by the illustrations which one your machine is. Make sure you replace that select switch with a proper switch, not something from the hardware store. Look on page 2-178 of parts catalog, I think your describing item #63 selector switch. There is a year model break on which switch is used. Determine which part number is the proper one for your machine and call these folks to order a new switch, they're a little cheaper than JLG. http://www.hindleyelectronics.com/ You boom operation problem? If your saying it would do some goofy stuff when platform is selected and operating from platform, but work with no real problems from lower control station, then I'd really be suspecting you have a problem with the control wire cable that connects platfom controls to lower control box, unless you have hyd controls which I don't think you do. When you say boom would drop fast with no control, it's unlikely it was out of control, more likely something fully engaged boom down control valve, an electrical malfunction. The boom can't really drop freely because even with the control valve fully open, there are adjustable needle valves on the boom up/dwn circuit controlling the max speed of boom. And if it turns out you do have a problem with control cable, that could be the cause of your throttle malfunction as well. BTW, it is normal to get a blip of the throttle when switching form ground to platform controls. You've got a number of malfunctions happening at the same time which is what's making me suspicious of the cable, too many things going on to pinpoit problem yet. But we need it to keep doing goofy stuff to determine where the gremlin is. If it's all working proper, well, if it ain't broke...we can't fix it. I really need to know what kind of controls you have at the platform controls. Also, it would be nice to know what proportional control valves you have, Racine, Vickers, or Bertea.
It looks like I have the PQ controllers with vickers valves , the machine is a 1993 model. The goofy stuff just started happening after I switched the ground- platform switch back and forth about 500 times , thinking that the switch is bad and somehow would make the contacts work better. More out of frustration than anything else. I will be replacing the lift and swing relays at only $9.25 each. The select switch i bought at an electrical supply warehouse 20 amp 250vac as good or better than original the counter guy says. I'll put the switch in this afternoon and see what happens. Thanks for your help, Mark
Here we go again. I changed the select switch , started it up and she worked like she's supposed to. 10 min. later after everything dried out ( thunderstorms , rain , high humidity) she starts with the governor not working. What would cause this to work like this? I"m thinking a relay or something with contacts . 2 new relays on the way for the swing and lift, hoping this is the problem.. no goofy stuff today though
correction : PQ controllers and Racine valves. The 2 new relays arrived today , we'll see what tomorrow brings.
Wow! I made a big post last night asking questions about wiring. The website did a sort of update during the night, it appears that post is gone. Oh well, it will take me some time to sort through my thoughts again and post again, probably be tommorow evening. Just trying to sort through the wiring of your machine.
It sounds like you have a number of issues going on at the same time, it's going to take some time to sort through all this so be patient. First of all, I've got to get this wiring sorted out in my head, given the crappy schematics JLG made for this one. I need some help as to which wire is going where. I'd like to make the madness a little more simple by focusing on one thing at a time, other issues will follow. For now, let's forget about high engine while driving and focus on mid range engine speed. It looks like the red wire on mid range board is going to terminal 14 on terminal strip, that would be one of the ingition terminals. Black wire is going to terminal 18, that is ground terminal. The one I can't tell for sure where it goes is the white wire, looks like it goes to 87A on high engine relay, is that correct? Also, would there be a yellow wire connected to terminal 87 on high engine relay? The wiring at the Precision Governor and actuator is really vague. Could you confirm the wiring at these components: Precision Governor terminal 1, yellow wire, to terminal 4 of engine compartment terminal strip PG term 2, brown, to term1 of strip PG 3, orn/blk, 13 strip PG 4, wht/orn, 5 strip PG 5, wht, 14 strip throttle actuator: yellow wire to 4 of terminal strip wht/grn to 6 of strip May have more questions, but I'm starting with these.
One more thing; what's connected to terminal 30 of the governor relay?
Looks like light blue/ white stripe
White goes to 87A on high engine relay No yellow on high engine relay 87 , no wires connected to 87 on high engine relay All the other wires that you asked about are what you thought they were. Lift worked good for about 20 min. today, light rain and drizzle , your theory about the sprinkler is starting to look like the only good solution.
LoL! Naw, we'll noodle through this thing somehow. I'm just having difficulty with this crappy schematic. :Banghead I'm not even seeing a blue/white on schematic, or even a white/blu if it were that. I've not quite figured out that governor relay (idle-run) because the schematic isn't real clear about it. I'm about ready to say to heck with it...figure it out later! Right now, I just want to get the mid engine speed working proper. I'll noodle through what you posted about the wiring connections to the other relays and see if something pops in my head. Ultimately, the white wire from the mid board has got to get to, I think, terminal #5 on the E-201 precision governor, the "Aux" terminal. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. And the voltage has to be less than 12V on that terminal, a reduced voltage output from the E-244 mid board. That's what causes the E-201 to work the throttle actuator at a lower setting than would be when hi engine from drive causes hi throttle of engine. That's done by the hi engine select putting 12V on terminal #3 on E-201. I'll study this a little more and get back with you.
The aux terminal on the e 201 is a white wire which does connect to the mid range board. The voltage at terminal 5 is 6.94 volts when the governor is offline and when its set to ground and working properly. I never have noticed a difference in the voltage readings when the governor is working or not and i check them all the time looking for some variation . What really bugs me is the fact that it works great when it rained or very damp , 10- 20 min after it warms up is when it stops working and doesn't start working again until its damp or rainy. Thanks for your help . I'll recheck the blue wire again. Mark
In a nutshell, the E-201 controller typically work something like this; With 12V volts on term 1, and ground on term 2, it will put out a voltage signal on term 4 to the actuator. It will be a voltage signal that holds the carb linkage actuator at a low (idle) rpm. When you apply a 12V signal to term 3, it changes the output on term 4 to actuator to rev engine to high rpm. When you remove the 12V signal on term 3, and apply a lower voltage signal from the mid range board to term 5, then the signal output from 3 to actuator revs the engine to a lower rpm than would be for high engine speed. This lower rpm is determined by the adjustment of the trim pot on the mid range board. What changes/switches the inputs at term 3 and 5 is the relays and the way the relays are controlled by machine functions. That's typically how they are wired up. I can't say for sure on your machine because the schematic is a POS! That's why I'm trying to determine which wire is going where. If your system works like I described, you should be able to narrow down your problem. I think you said when it quits working the high and mid speed doesn't work. If so, when you notice hi speed isn't working, put a 12V jumper wire on term 3 and see if it revs. Same with mid speed, check the voltage at term 5 when it's working proper, let's say it's a 6V input that gives mid speed. When it quits working, see if you lost your 6V input to term 5. Does that make sense?
The way you describe it makes perfect sense. I have always checked the voltage at the different terminals looking for a variation when its working and when its not. I have not seen any variation in any of the voltages. Here is what I get, term 1 battery voltage 13.8- 14.4 , term 2 ground ( ran a dedicated wire to a good ground) term 3 battery voltage , (probing term 1 and 3 I get battery voltage, Term 4, 6.94V, Term 5 , battery voltage. I checked on a few of the other wires that you asked about, White on high engine relay goes to 87A, with a brown/ black on term 86, white on term 30, no wire on 87 term 30 on the gov relay is blue / white that goes to 6 on terminal strip ( signal from gov. relay) I'll recheck the voltages again and use a jumper wire to see if I can make it rev. I will get back to you on Monday , i'll be away all weekend. Thanks again for the info. Mark
wait a minute...you said in post #25 that terminal 5 had 6.94V, not battery voltage.
There's the variation i've been looking for. Didn't notice it, this may be my problem. I'll check it out again , I have so many numbers running through my head I can't think straight/
My mistake, #5 has 6.9 v to it when the gov is working and when its not. Term 4 has 6.9v on ground and 2.75v on platform. When the gov was working I would get 9-13v. Here's a thought, would excess heat on the e201 controller cause it to not work? I need to replace the muffler because its blown out on the bottom and it blows exhaust onto the controller. We left the side doors open on the ground unit and it seemed to work a lot longer than usual and it wasn't wet and rainy the night before.
You could have a problem with the E-201. Can't say for sure though because I'm still not sure how your unit is wired. You mentioned term 5 had 6.94V on it, term 5 is wire from mid range board output, right? Then you mentioned term 4 had varying voltages on it, isn't term 4 connected to the throttle acutator? Also, you didn't mention term 3, is that the term that's connected to hi engine wiring? Just trying to make sure I got how yours is wired. And yes, you for sure need to replace your muffler, exhaust leaks can do all sorts of things, including melting wiring.
Term 5 is from mid range board. Term 4 is to the actuator . Term 3 is connected to the neg side of the coil (tach lead). With heat possibly causing my problem, I might be able to move the E-201 outside of the engine compartment to keep it cool ,just for a test. The gov usually works soon after starting in the morning after it has been completely cooled overnight. Then it won't work until the next cool down over night. Thanks mark
Oh man, darnit, I forgot that, Term 3 = Sig terminal, Signal, the dang signal from the ignition coil. That's how the E-201 knows what speed the engine is running. Grrrrrrr, I forgot all about that. :Banghead LMAO! So, if your only using 5 terminals on the E-201, then term 5 is the terminal that determines the speed settings of the E-201. Hi engine would be a nominally high (+/-) 12V on term 5 when hi engine is selected, then a lower voltage, maybe your 6.9, on term 5 when mid board is sending input to it.
I put a 12v jumper on term 3 when it wasn't working and would only get a blip in the throttle not a continuous high speed running of the engine. I'm beginning to think I'm having a problem in the E-201 , with the speed working so randomly. Where would I be losing the signal voltage and what function causes the engine to rev up when the footswitch is depressed. Earlier you mentioned that the footswitch controls the proportional dump valve. What is the purpose of the dump valve? My son is getting married this weekend , so I won't be able to play with the lift until Sunday. mark
Gonna have to slow down bro, I'm just now getting your wiring to E-201 figured out, that crappy schematic ain't no help. We'll get through this somehow. You don't put 12V on term 3. Term 3 is signal input from ignition coil of engine. That terminal is how the E-201 knows what the engine speed is. Term 5 is the one you want to check. 12V jumper on term 5 should give you hi engine rpm. Reduced voltage (6.9?) on term 5 would give you a lower rpm than hi engine. If you really suspect the E-201 is faulty, you could send it to Hindley Electronics and have it tested and replaced if necessary. http://www.hindleyelectronics.com/
Well I was able to get back to working on the house. I rechecked all the voltages on the E201 and the only difference is term 4 ,I get 2.75v on platform and I think 6.94v on ground. I put a 12v jumper to term 5 and no increase in rpm's on ground or platform. Maybe a problem with the mid range board? or the voltage going to it? Where does that voltage come from? mark
Ok, let's go over this once more to verify I have this right; E-201 terminal connections #1 - 12V battery input #2 - ground #3 - neg terminal of ignition coil #4 - governor throttle control actuator #5 - white wire to terminal #14 of engine terminal strip no other connections to E-201 Is that right? If so, and with engine running you put a 12V jumper on terminal #5 and got no reaction, I'm strongly leaning to shipping the E-201 to Hindley and have them test it. If it's bad, and you get it repaired/replaced, then we can work on other issues, if that doesn't cure all your problems.
All the wiring you described is correct. I would like to send the e201 to Hindley , but I need it right now. I need to get a roof on this house before it snows which could be as early as mid October. I'll have to send it when I'm done, but in the mean time ,if I notice something different , I'll post on the forum. thanks for all your help , Mark
Hey, if nothing else, screw in the idle adjust screw on the carbureator to give you a acceptable engine speed, take the E-201 off and have it repaired. It would only be gone a matter of days.
That's what I have been doing for the past 2 months. Just tape the wires so nothing touches and I'd be good to go.
Well, there ya go. What have ya got to lose?