well, I think I need one. I found a JLG 40HA 4x4 for $3150. It needs painted. So far, playing with it, I can't make it move, but we did get the boom to go up and down and extend and rotate. To get it to do that, we had to do wire wiggles. It looks like a few wires are unhooked.... It looks like it has a duetz air cooled diesel engine. I wish it did not have all that stuff under the basket(mount). Kind of hard to get down close to a roof..,,, My buddy, who is not as electrically challeged as I am, seems to think we can get it working with little or no money,,,saying most of it's problems are corrosion related on connections. I would like to check the drives before buying. How to tell if the handle in the basket with the "board" on it is good? Is that expensive? That seems to be the only place to drive it from? Is there a hyd valve to hit to check the drive motors? What should I be worrying about and checking before purchasing?
There are quit a few variations of the 40HA as far as valving/hydraulics go. On the style I'm familure with, there is no drive valve. The controller operates the hydraulic pump directly. Look at the pump, see if there are wiring going into it. If so, that's the case with yours also. I can't remember if there is a small lever on the pump to operate the drive or not......I'm thinking not.
All the 40HA machines I've seen use Sunstrand drive pumps with servo controlled by PQ controller and they don't have the test lever on the servo. Can't remember for certain, buy you might be able to remove the cover on the servo and manually activate the control shaft. Machine would still have brakes engaged though. That PQ controller can easily be between 300 to 350 dollars for replacement.
how would I guess an approx date of this machine?
On many JLG machines, the mfg date is stamped on the ID plate. If it's not on that one, write down your serial number and call Eric at Best Line Equipment, 888-321-3217, he can tell you the year model by the s/n. Is there any way you can post some pics of the machine?
I will post pics when I can. I decided to buy it and we will go after it probly today or tomorrow. I have 2 places I may need it about 20 miles apart. Won't move it very often, but I am selling the only trailer I own big enough to haul it around. I am wondering, I saw a tow option in the parts manual. Is all I have to do to tow this,,,,reverse the locks on the wheels, unhook the steering cyl,,attach a towbar with a steering rod,,,and go?
Well, simply speaking, yes. But, towing must still be done at a low speed, maybe 5 mph max, can't remember max speed for sure. Even though you disconnect the drive motors and brakes by reversing the hub locks, you'll still be turning the planetary gears and components in the drive hubs and they're just not built for high speeds.
well,,no pics yet, but found out it is a 1992
well,, where to start? I bought it and got it home. I'm not as brave as I thought. It sure seems higher when you are in the basket! well alot of things need greased and cleaned. So far the main up and down does not work from basket, but works from ground. That would be wiring. I'm slow on electric, but we'll get that fixed sooner or later. The big problem is still..it won't drive. Where do I start? Which valve is to the drive motors? I downloaded and printed the maint manual from JLG site,,but it isn't much help. for trouble shooting. I think maybe someone changed the control switch(lever to drive it) and board. From under the lid in the basket,,the switch looks like it is not original by the bolt holes and cutout. The # on the board is HC3000 rev A . Another # is SC-DS 13-05 UL#123067. Is one of these the p/n ?
on edit,, 1991
Yes, the maintenance manuals are ehhh. :tong You need to download the parts manual, it will do you more good than maintenance. The drive isn't controlled by a valve like other machine functions. Basically what you have is the engine, and bolted to the back of engine is the Sunstrand bi-directional pump for the drive. Bolted to the back of the drive pump is the work equipment for all other machine functions. The drive contoller at the platform gives electrical input directly to the servo on the drive pump, no valves. The contoller should be a PQ controller, kind of a black box looking thing with the lever offset to one side. I really need to know more about the machine. Does it have toggle switches that control boom functions at platform, or does it have controllers for boom up/dwn and boom swing? Or does it have levers to control boom functions at platform, that being hydraulic controls. What engine does it have? 2wd or 4wd? Sounds like you've got some work to do to the machine and this info helps when giving you tips.
It has toggle switches on platform, except the one controller that should run the drive motors. It is 4x4 with the deutz engine. I am on my way after the parts manual right now!
Hmm, not a bad machine. Would be better with proportional controls for boom and swing, but hey, still a nice machine. Ok, really need to know what kind of controller they got on the drive control at platform. It should be a PQ controller, should look similar to the one in this link, http://www.pqcontrols.com/m120.php
my platform is like fig4-4 standard bang bang controls
yep, very similar. The lever goes to a gear,, which turns a pot,, which is hooked to a circuit board. Is there a way to check this board? It looks like it has been worked on already. The handle has Hindles name on it.
You mean Hindley Electronics? They're in Bowling Green Ohio, that's the place I get controller parts from. It sounds like your describing a PQ controller, there's no way you can test that unit because it works on a Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) output. It really sucks that you have toggle switch controls for other boom functions instead of proportional controls at platform, otherwise, you could test drive using other controllers. :Banghead Since you only have the one PQ controller for drive, one thing you could do is send the unit back to Hindley and have them test it. It doesn't cost much to have the unit tested and you would then know if the controller is at fault or not. You don't have a lot of choices if you don't know the history of the machine (and you wouldn't if you just purchased it) and it only has the one PQ proportional controller.
A couple of pics for you razerface. A PQ controller This is a pump arraingment from a 33RTS scissor lift, should be similar to your setup. Harness connector for the pump servo. The brown wires are ground wires. The blue and orange wires come directly from the PQ controller.
Does it have more than one PQ controller? If so you could switch the control out with the other one to eliminate things and at least see if thats the problem. I have a used controller that (i think) works, send me a UPS label and you can have it if you find you need it.
Nope, got bang controls for boom functions Barklee, just one PQ controller for drive.
Huh! never seen one that didnt have the joystick for the boom up and down
Yep, they made some like that.
ATCOEQUIP, great pics! That looks like my pump, (from memory). That helps a lot! What should those wires output measure when the PQ is activated? 12 volts? I will email my friend where the machine is,,,he'll want to test that today. The maint book doesn't have any good pics in it ( I can read though,,before you guys start on me!) barklee, thanks for that generous offer! That could really help. We have been looking around for one to substitute and try. I live at Indian Lake, and travel to dayton every day. Are you local? I wish it had 2 PQ's too. It sure would be easier to diagnose! on edit,, I reread ATCOEQUIP comments on PQ controllers, PWM outputs,, no testing of the PQ for the masses? Barklee, how can I get you a ups label? Would you like my UPS account #? I understand you are not sure if yours works either,,correct? 2nd edit, I found my camera this weekend,,,(we just moved). I can start showing pics soon.
The basic way that Pulse Width Modulation works is that the controller sends a voltage signal to either a solenoid valve (as with boom functions on a machine) or to the drive pump servo (like on your machine), but the signal is not a constant voltage, it's a pulse of full voltage followed by a period of time of no voltage, then back to full voltage, then none again. This happens in a span of milliseconds. A short pulse of on/off voltage just slightly makes the solenoid coil or servo react resulting in a low speed of the function being operated. A longer pulse of on/off voltage makes the unit react farther resulting in a faster speed of the function. By varying the pulse time you achieve proportional operation of the unit. The point is, there should be voltage on the colored wires of the servo harness plug, but you won't be able to read the pulse with a multitester, have to use an osciloscope to do that. But you might try and see if voltage is on the wires when you stroke controller. Also check that the brown wires are going to ground/earth.
well,,,,I think I actually understood that, thanks. I will check the voltage at the servo and work back toward the controller from there. That's what I needed, a place to start. Would it be better to try an analog instead of digital meter to see this? so checking my new found knowledge... if the voltage from the controller was replaced with constant voltage,, it would drive as fast as possible, correct? Does the "off" time remain constant and only the "on" time vary?
Yep, it would work full tilt. But, your brakes would still be engaged. This is something I've never done before. I'm like Barklee and have an old PQ controller that I know works. If that don't do the trick, I start going through the system.
I bought a used JLG 40H 4x4 at an auction 2 years ago. It was a 2006 model with around 1900 hours. I used it to build my shop since I really didn't have much help available and the shop has 18' walls. It saved a lot of ladder work and has been a wonderful machine. The only problems I have had with it have been a few electrical ones which my brother and I were able to fix.
how do I tell which PQ controllers will interchange? Are there similar ones that would work to test or to use? My p/n is 1600116 in the parts manual, but we can tell that some other part has been substituted. When you look at it from the inside of the box,,you can see where the original holes do not line up with the current controller. I cannot decide what the p/n is of the current controller. How to tell?
I called Hindley about the controller with their name on it. They say that number is a serial number,,and it tells them they rebuilt that controller in 2005, and it is the correct p/n for my machine.
Well, all I can say is Hindley knows those components. If they say it's the correct controller, I would tend to agree with them. Did you check that you have power on pin #3 (yellow wire) of controller harness when footswitch is depressed? Did you check to see if you have a voltage output when you stroke contoller on pin #5 and #6 (brn/red - brn/blu)?
I checked the wires at the other end (solenoid) last night and got nothing. I got called away and did not get to keep checking stuff. My plan was to work from the pump back toward the controller. I am impatient to get some time working on it. As soon as I start, something else comes up and drags me away. Last night my bobcat started dumping fuel on the ground. I had to go,,,,, I have a question. Remember I am not an electrical guy! On the diagrams for the platform and main,,it does not show where the wires go from the numbered terminal blocks. So, does #3 on the main, go straight to #3 on the platform, 4 to 4,,ect, ect? There is just a wire harness connecting the 2 places using those numbered terminals at each end of the harness? Then for example, on the platform diagram, from switches, instead of drawing the line to the numbered terminal, they just number the end of the line. Am I looking at this correctly?
No worries, we'll work through this. Actually, I start at platform end on something like this, starting with controller, then start checking wiring, as these are the most common things that cause problems. JLG diagrams can be a bit of a challenge to read. I'll work you through a couple of circuits so you can get a handle on how they work. Open the parts book PDF you downloaded from the website, go to page 7-10, Figure 7-5 Platform Electrical Diagram-Bang (Standard) Controls. That's your machine. You might want to rotate the view clockwise so you ain't looking at it sideways, that drives me crazy. :tong Look to the right on the diagram (not box at far right, that's 4 wheel steer, not yours) and you'll see a small box that has Drive above it. That's the connector in the PQ controller harness, has 9 pins in the connector. Just below that is a column that say "Pin" and numbers 1 - 9, that's the wiring of the contoller harness, corresponds with the pins of the connector. Pin 1 brown is ground. Pin 2 blk/orn has a square box at the end of the wire with number 22 in the box. That means that wire goes to terminal 22 of terminal strip at bottom of page. If you look at terminal 22, you'll see it's Brake Valve, meaning that circuit is the circuit that releases the brake when you operate drive. Pin 3 yellow wire has a box with #35 in box, that goes to terminal 35. Terminals 35 - 39 are 12V when footswitch depressed, so that would be the wire that sends power to the PQ controller. Pin 5 brn/red has a box with #16, this goes to terminal 16 of terminal strip, you'll notice that is Drive Reverse. Notice the brn/red wire leaves the opposite side of terminal strip and continues in the 16-30 control cable going to the lower main control box. Now, go to page 7-12, Figure 7-7 Standard Electrical Diagram - Deutz With Standard Bang-Controls, again, your machine. With view rotated, you'll see the 16-30 cable from platform to the left of page, and the brn/red wire with a #16 box, that means it connects to terminal 16 of terminal strip. Now, you're going to ask "well, what else connects to terminal 16, it doesn't show anything at the terminal?". Yep, that's where JLG diagrams are tricky. Look all around the page and look for any wire/connection with a box that has #16 in the box. You will only find one, at the right top of the page you'll see six brown wires (grounds), just below them you'll see 35 yellow, 13 blu/red, 21 brn/blu, and your 16 brn/red that your looking for. This is the wiring harness that goes to machine lower components and engine compartment. Go to next page, 7-13, that's the lower harness that goes with your diagram. Again, with view rotated clockwise, to the right of the page you'll find the brn/red wire going to pin b, that's the connector for the harness at the drive pump. There ya go, you have just traced through the drive reverse circuit.
ok thanks! I was sort of seeing how to do it, but got lost on the lower harness jump. My diagram does not tell me that is the lower harness on the right. I resized the platform and main schematics to 2 or 3 times bigger,so I can read them,,printed them in sections,,,taped back together and laminated them for protection. I am ready to get greasy this weekend! I guess I need to also do the lower harness. Thanks alot for the lesson,,I feel like I know how to do this now, at least the simple circuits. I'll report back this weekend with what I find. Actually get to work on it some friday I think. I have all the manuals printed and in notebooks,,,I'm ready to find out my "electrical detective" capabilities. What is R1,, R2,,, ect,,coming off the control switches and other places on the ground panel?
I forgot one of my questions. Can I do this work without the engine running? Since I am trying to get thr drive working,,I may have to tape the controller in position and put a weight on the footswitch for some of my tests. I don't want to get run over, so,,,everything will still react the same without engine and pumps running?
Ahh grasshopper, you noticed those oval symbols with R and numbers in them. Perceptive. These are connections to Relays (R) and the number is which relay, and the relay terminal connection. There are two types of relays in the lower control box. The black cube relays and the two (what we call) ice cube 14 terminal modular relays. On page 7-12, you'll see the ice cube relays 1 and 2 to the right of the terminal strip. If you look near bottom of page you'll see the switch for Tower Lift. Notice the red/orn wire coming off the tower lift switch going to two oval symbols, one R2 - 8, and another R2 - 7. This means that red/orn wire from tower lift switch goes to relay #2 - terminal 8 of relay, and to relay #2 - term 7 of relay. Also, they represent connections to the black cube relays. Look to right of page at harness for lower components. Look at the red/orn wire for the bang bang dump valve, it has an oval symbol with R13 - 87. That would connect to bang bang dump relay 13 - terminal 87 of relay at top of page. And yes, you can do most voltage tests with ignition on, engine not running, and footswitch depressed.
thanks,, I have to go study some more now. It's not too bad after somebody explains it.
Well, there's still some spots of JLG diagrams that present a challenge to me, and I've been looking at them for years.
well, I tested and found out reverse was no good in the controller. I got no voltage at controller or at the pump from the reverse leg. I already had Hindley send me a new one which I got today. It is different then the old one,,but it looks like everybody who drove this thing stopped and worked on the controller with their soldering iron! The new one is sealed. With the new controller, we get a gradual 12 volt at each leg at the sunstrand valve,,but the lift still won't move. I know the voltage ramps up to 12v to increase speed. How do I test the sunstrand? It hummed a little,,but that was it. We took it apart but could not see anything obvious wrong.
after we got the sunstrand off,,,we noticed a small lever on top to manually work the valve. We did not put it back on to try because it is hard to get on and off. We want to test first. This thing is hard to find in the parts manual. Still looking. Maybe it isn't a sunstrand just because the pump is? I am talking about the electric valve that the controller runs to drive the machine. edit: just reread in post 23 that ATCOEQUIP calls it a "drive pump servo"
The drive pump is on page 2-78 of parts manual pdf. The component that has the screws #82 and #83 going into it is the servo for the drive pump. That's the component that the control harness connects to. Do you have the entire drive pump removed from the machine?
no, just the servo
Ok. I'm curious if your servo does in fact have the manual engagement lever on it, some JLG models had that feature and some didn't. With the engine running, you can move that little lever and it will move the swash plate of pump in both directions. Machine wouldn't move though because brakes would be engaged, but it would load engine and hyd drive circuit. It would really be nice to know if your pump will do this. BTW, does your new controller have 4 adjusting screws on it? Low, Mid, High, and Ramp?
yes it has the 4 adjustments. I haven't bothered them yet I am working on a pic of the servo to post. see if pic works here,,,little flat lever is on top. Can I test it?
By golly, it does have the manual lever. I sure would like to slap that thing back on and see if it strokes the pump. bah ha ha, I love it. Got it sitting on the box the controller from Hindley came in. LoL
yep, thats the box! you must have bought a few to recognize that plain old box! If putting it back on is how to test it, that's what I'll do. We did take the top off. Maybe dissassemble and clean?
Yeah, I have opened a number of those boxes over the years. :tong Well, your in an area I typically don't go. I take care of the machine components. If I determine the pump or servo is the problem, it gets sent to a pump specialist, not very familiar with the workings of the servo for this reason, I've always had tons of other stuff that needs attention and let a pump shop fix those parts. All I'm suggesting is if we put that servo back on, operate the manual lever in both directions, and we load the engine and pump, then we know the pump is most likely good. Then we know to focus on either controller adjustment issue or possible failure of servo.
D had a bad day trouble shooting today,,,fixed nothing in 7 hrs . Servo--- we put it back on and worked the lever,,,nothing. We took it back off and dissassembled it,,,found nothing obvious to us,,put it back together. We did notice the post in the center was leaning to one side, contacting on side, so it only moved one way by hand. We also wondered how this works? Should there be something sticking out of the back of it of sticking out of the pump? We are worried there are parts missing. The diagram in the parts manual does not resemble our servo valve. How do you check pressure in the drive pump? I see a QD on the end pump. Another problem,, how do the brakes work? Does the hyd pressure put brakes on,, or take them off? We found that when we press the foot switch, the brake valve gets voltage and the hyd brake line gets hard. I think that is wrong.
razerface, I know you have spent some money on the machine to date, but it sounds to me like you need to remove the drive pump and send it off to a pump specialist. These servos and pumps are very sensative in how they are set up. I'm more than capable of working on all manner of pumps and motors, but I prefer to let a craftsman who knows those components well to perform those repairs. I think you'll be very happy with your machine operation if you get the pump fixed up. As for your brakes, the brakes on these machines are spring applied. It takes hyd pressure to release the brakes via a solenoid valve (brake valve) and the solenoid should only operate when you operate the PQ drive controller, that's when the controller puts power on terminal 22 of terminal strip to power up brake solenoid.
thats what I thought. My brakes get powered off when I press on the foot switch! I don't even have to touch the PQ. Why is there no p/n for the servo valve? Is there a good pump place you know in ohio? I still want to test pressure.
Not sure why they don't provide a part number, like I said, I don't order those parts anyway. I'm certain there has to be a pump shop in Ohio, just don't know of one myself. I use an outfit in Georgia, a bit closer to me. Yep, it appears you need to print the schematic for the platform controls and start checking your wiring, somethings wrong up there.
i checked the platform today. I seems ok. Maybe the relay down in the main? I think I have to figure out why the brake valve is working from the pedal before I will be able to check the PQ wire output,,even though it is a new controller
....dumb question,,,,deleted
Check terminal 22, should be a blk/orn wire, no other wires should be connected to it. Disconnect the Check that blk/orn goes to pin 2 at harness connector of joystick. After it goes through the connector, the wire may become a different color. If there are no other wires connected to the circuit, step on the footswitch and see if the blk/orn wire powers up. If it does, try disconnecting the blk/orn from the 16-30 cable where it connects to terminal strip at 22, may be some kind of phantom feedback from lower controls. Try it again, if this makes it right, gotta move farther down the line and find problem.
My schematics show 1 leg of the high engine switch also attached to #22 with a blk/orn. yours show it?
Ahh, so it does. Told ya these things still throw curve balls at me. bah ha ha Ok, what's happening there, the brake circuit, being powered up by the output of drive controller at terminal 22, is also being used to power the hi engine circuit. Keep in mind, the hi engine only works when boom is horizontal or lower and fully retracted. It works like this. Operate drive controller, sends power to terminal 22 to operate brake solenoid at lower components. Blk/orn wire also comes off term 22 and goes to hi engine switch. When you select the switch to hi engine, it sends power on brn/blk wire to terminal 8 of the ice cube relay in platform box. Terminal 8 of ice cube relay is a normally closed connection to terminal 12 of relay. Terminal 12 brn/blk goes to terminal 11 of terminal strip which is high engine circuit going to lower controls. Back at ice cube relay, footswitch depressed sends power to term 14 of relay on yellow wire, term 13 and 14 operates the internal coil of the relay which switches relay. Terminal 13 is the ground (earth) for the coil, the blu/orn on 13 goes to 24 of terminal switch, which is the circuit that goes to switches on boom and ultimately to ground (earth). Whenever you extend boom or raise boom above horizontal, those boom switches provide ground for the ice cube relay at platform, switches relay, and now breaks the circuit for hi engine.
whew! had to read that a couple times! I got my schematics and read along with you,,,it works out! It makes sense right now,,we'll see how it sounds when I have to explain it to my buddie while we are working on it..... Do you think there is any connection to my driving problem because of the footswitch-brake valve problem? I think I'll fix that before I tear out the pump.. BTW, what does the dotted line between the footswitch and ice cube mean?
Hard for me to say on my end what's causing that problem. Disconnect that blk/orn wire that goes downstairs and work with the circuits in your platform box. That brake circuit has to be activated by the drive controller and nothing else. The dotted line is components that are used with 0860714 and 0860715 platform control boxes. I don't know which one you have, but it's safe to say if you don't have diodes connected to terminals 43 and 44, it ain't yours.
The thing that bugs me is your drive pump servo. If you put it back on, and it won't load the pump by working the manual lever, there's something wrong. I don't know what it is, but something is wrong. I don't mess with these things, don't have much advice for ya on this, I let the experts work on pump/servo issues.
A long day of wire tracing again. I could not find anything. I decided to put the old controller back in and recheck stuff. As soon as I did that,, things healed a little. After switching and checking,, the new controller from Hindley is the problem. When it is plugged in, there is juice on terminal 22 (brake valve) all the time. So then when I stepped on the foot switch,,it triggered the brake release without moving the controller. Something is wrong with the new $300 controller. I called Hindley. They have a new one on the way,,,,but I'm afraid that the controller may be good,,but is the wrong one for my lift. They sent me the correct p/n out of the book,,but could not identify the old one even though it has their name on it. Will have to wait and see what the new one does. On edit here,,,just for people to be sure,,,,I am not bitching about Hindley. As soon as I called them, they had another "on the way" and requested my serial# to further verify the controller needed for my machine thru JLG
That's part of why I like to deal with Hindley, they are friendly to work with and they support their product. Keep us updated. BTW, I will say that in nearly every case that I have replaced a PQ controller, even though it's adjusted to specs from the folks that build it, I typically find it has to be adjusted to work proper on the machine. Very rarely have I installed one and it work proper needing no adjustment. But this in not related to your controller putting power on terminal 22 when you step on foot switch, that sounds like a faulty controller. When you get your new controller and install it, try it out. If it works proper, that's good. If it has some quirks in operation let me know and I'll walk you through the process for adjusting it.