I bid a lot clearing a couple weeks ago the lot size .86 acre just a average building lot in a subdivision pretty flat easy access anyways the way I bid it I'll do the tractor work and I'll hire out 30 yd cans I figured 2-3 days max depending on getting the cans dumped as they should I figured 10 cans @ going rate of $350 and me and 2 guys and 2 pieces of equipment @2500 I thought I was low what do you guys think just clear haul away and smooth lot
usually i try to avoid using cans since the cost is higher than hiring out a 100 cy rig and trailer since tree debris is usually pretty light and i can pack it pretty tight and throw some of the stumps on the top to help weigh it down per trip
Is this trees, stumps, brush, etc., or just clean-up vegetation (sod and such)and smooth everything out? That size lot sounds like about 200' by 200'? According to your info, you're disposing of 300 yds. I am not going to get into disposal costs, I'm only trying to guess a time frame. Secondly, I'm more used to tandems, I'll just base my figures on that. Guessing high, I would figure 30 loads. I would hope to spend no more than 15 min per load on loading, so that would be 7.5 hrs. With 2 machines working, 4.5 to 5 hrs grading should be plenty. Sounds to me like a good 12 hr day of work, I don't know how far this site is for you, but would half-day cover mobilization? Keep in mind, I have no idea what site looks like, I can only imagine using the info given.
Shimmy1 this is a wooded lot with all hardwood trees standing and there 18-20 at the base of the tree I have to them over saw them up and then load up on cans trim the sides because I'm loading with loader and bobcat your close on tandems when I've used tandems in the past on average you get 3 tandems in 1 30 yd can the only problem with tandems it's about a 30 mile round trip so it's pretty much equals out cans vs tandem but my experience with these lots like this one it's takes me longer because of the sawing up and loading and the mobilization is about 3 hrs to get both machines on the job
Perhaps the best way to learn how you lost the bid would be to make a pass by and see how the low bidder did the job. If they have a better method, you will learn from it, and if they look lost, you may learn that they were someones friend and that is why they got the job. As for the method you described to clear the lot, the price sounds right. On the other hand, someone with the right sized grinder could perhaps do the job in a day, and reduce the volume to a couple of high side loads of perhaps marketable material, thus offsetting the higher cost of the grinding. Remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat. What you learn from losing this job may be what gets you the next one.
So is it doable to get a can loaded in 45 min? If the cutters have a headstart? Sounds maybe like an excavator might shave bunch of time off? These are all just possible scenarios for how someone might do it cheaper.
Everyone around this area uses cans there's really no one in this area that grinds small lots like this I'm thinking the only way that would help me out is a excavator instead of the loader
Yes We always seem to to load and trim cans in 45-50 mins it would be faster but a laborer gets in the can after half loaded and mulch up the debris to make it lay in better
So, sounds like where you lose the competitive edge is digging out the stumps. If you're able to tip the tree over to pull the stump, fine. But I'll bet if you're using the loader it takes a bit to get a 20" stump out, especially one that's alive.
No I would go in with a 943 and push the trees over and then saw them up then basic take the bobcat with a grapple bucket grab the debris up and load after it's cut up
Ah, I never seem to think about the track loader factor. They're just not popular around here. Sounds like you know how to do it, just need to figure out how, if possible, to speed it up.
I'd say your rate is quite reasonable, and I'm not sure you could do it cheaper. They charge 1800 an acre plus mobilization for a mulcher around here, youre taking 2 machines in, out, and disposing of the stumps for a mere 700 more. I'd say whoever has the job is a weekend warrior or very new to the business.
Hey Dozier, Any chance of delimbing those trees and sawing them up for saw logs or firewood? If you could take those logs out, it would reduce the requirement for some of those cans.You have to cut them anyway. They should be marketable to somebody. I just lost a demo bid to another guy because I had bid taking all debris to the landfill. My competitor had a small crusher and was able to crush all the brick and concrete then sell it for fill. He beat me by about 4k. If you know, would you share what the low bid was. I agree that if you have time it would be worth while to go by and see how your competitor is doing the job. Tim
Knowing what the low bid was is the single most important point in all of this. Either you lost it by a few pen-strokes, or you can say to yourself "Have fun with that one there buddy! I'm off to bigger and better." I don't really care for bid work myself, when I lose a bid, it's usually something I didn't really want or the profit was marginal anyway.
Ben46a $1800 per acre is about the going rate around here for clearing,grubbing and smoothing just piling the debris I personally haven't never cleared acreage like that I mainly clear building lots of less than an acre
Are you allowed to burn in you area? 2500 is about what we would charge if we could burn. Figure one day with a excavator and a air curtain. If not then around here we would grind the trees and haul out the stumps. Going rate for that is about 4000-5000 an acre.
You are allowed only certain times of the year but no one does that on small jobs every grading company I know of in this area uses cans except for maybe 2 company's they use tandems but they are very expensive and don't do small jobs
at a certain point you have to just let them have it
I feel for the poor as the high price will eat into their pocket.
Stupid question...what's a "can"?? Never heard that term around here.
dumpster
Can, dumpster, roll-off box or just a box. I use all 4 terms.:beatsme I've started hauling tree debris in boxes on the small jobs, it's just more economical as you can get more volume per trip compared to a dump truck. Even if you have to pay regular tonnage rates at the landfill for the can, instead of a brush dump flat fee with a dump truck, it still works out the same or cheaper. The 5 county area around me has a burn ban from May to Oct. One county requires an air curtain to burn anything, complete with permit and inspection. The other counties allow open burning but some sites are so small it's not practical to burn it on site. The numbers in my area are close in price for just clearing open acreage, stacking and open burning - $1500-1800 an acre. This would be for 5 acres or more. Small clearing sites where the debris must be hauled off are priced individually, as the volume of debris can vary drastically. IMO, individual house lots should be a T&M price. If a homebuilder wanted a hard price for clearing a lot and hauling it off, I'd probably be high every time.:cool2
Drive by and see how the low bidder did the job! That is just obnoxious! I tried for years to get the estimators and owner of the last place i worked to do this. Instead they just sang the same old "there gonna lose their ars" and "no way they can do it for that" or we won't even bid underground work because we can't compete with so and so. All i can think is you better figure out how to get better and more competitive at your craft or find something else to do.......TIO
I took the advice of doing a drive by actually went by twice looks as if there using a bobcat and getting dumpsters from the same company as I use they was there all last week and there today looked like they was close to being finished
Just remember when you're bidding a job, some people are willing to pay good money to operate machinery. http://www.diggerlandusa.com/attractions/rides/
i see the term "going rate" thrown out a lot in threads. who establishes this "going rate"...guy who knows his costs? or somebody lowballing to get work? personally, that term terrifies me. because nobody will ever share the same "going rate"....our income needs are different, our production levels will probably be different, our expenses/lifestyles will be different. to get caught up in the game of bidding jobs by the going rate is nothing but scary. you need to know your costs
I was told that years ago!!! but it took a few years of not makin very much money before I sat down with a CPA & actually figured what it took to move my truck & pay my bills everyday before I MADE A SINGLE PENNY!!! this should be done every year because things change.. just cause the next guy charges $120 a hour to do something doesn't mean you should. I will give you a little heads up,, you DONT want to be the CHEAPEST company in town cause you wont be there long
And, some of the cheapest guys will tell you they make up for it in "volume". LOL
I was told years ago- "If you buy hay for $1 a bale, and sell it for $1 a bale- you're going to need a darned big truck before you make any money." Sometimes volume rates just get you broke- faster!
I just cleared a lot very similier to the one I lost the bid on and really paid attention to time labor materials fuel etc. I bid about the same I ended up with 9 hrs on my 943 8 hrs on my bobcat 16 hrs labors it took 8 cans and I was there 3 days and two trips each way moving equipment which ends up being nearly a days work I think I ended up making 1200 for 4 days of work plus the time I spent looking at it and locating property lines with the builder prior to starting the job
Dozier Digging, how do you afford to run machinery,(maintenance,spare parts,wear-tear etc ) making $300 a day.? I am not having a shot at you, you are having a go and living the dream, but to me if that was all I was making in a day hauling machinery around to jobs, servicing etc,I would be selling the lot. Best of luck for the future.
Not to nit-pick, but you should have made at least $500 alone on the man labor, and maybe $1000 for the machines. If you didn't make anything on the mobilization, there is a bit of a problem. This sounds like an extremely tough market to operate in. Hope you get some good stuff to bring things into a little better focus. Good luck.
That's the market around here I know it's tough the other job I lost to a low bid I'm sure he paid the guy to do that job
The 943 ran to push trees down and dress up lot and pack boxes the bobcat was only loading brush I could have done this job in 2 days roll off driver could only haul four boxes a day
How can I upload pics on here
Scribe your reply, then click on "Go Advanced". Scroll down the screen until you find the "Manage Attachments" button. Click on that, identify where your files are, and upload away ...........
You don't even have to go advanced, just hit the second icon from the right in the top of the quick reply box (if you hover over it, it says "insert image".
My market is the same way up in nc besides most of the hauling is with tri or quad axles. Pricing is in the same figures. I clear lots about 3 to 5 times a year for the very same reason, I'm in business to make money not lose it! My 953 will sit in my barn more than it runs for the time being. Too many people pricing dirt cheap and I keep waiting and praying for there equipment to give them a hickup because there is no way they are going to be able to pay for the repair with what little profit they are making. I'm hurting for work right now but I'll go broke hunting and fishing before I go wear my equipment out for no reason! It is extremely agrivating!!! I really want to get into the mulching business but nobody is going to pay for the cost of mulching when they can have it cleared and graded for next to nothing! I just don't understand how some people do it!!!
Nice clean work.:thumbsup Dozier are you just clearing the lots or doing the grading for the house as well? Also, even though it's PIA work you could look into providing erosion control services - silt fencing and a load of stone for the construction entrance. Erosion control can be profitable.
I cleared the lot installed 200 ft type a silt fence a fabric mat and 1 load of stone and graded the lot down for the house and driveway for add. Cost mainly hourly on the equipment and labor and cost of materials these pics were after 8 hrs on the job right before silt fence and stone went down
Gotcha. I price erosion control by the unit for commercial jobs and sometimes it's the most profitable (% wise) of the entire job.
I've not done much commercial work in past couple of years the contacts I had all went out of business so I've done residential mainly ever since
I know several GC's in the southeast area that build "box retail", the small chain stores and they have projects all over. They can be profitable and it's my bread and butter. If you want I can PM you a few if you're interested. It requires some BS paperwork, contracts, insurance, etc. but it's worth it IMO. They are always looking for site guys and if I could travel and make money, I'd have more work than I could do. However, us excavators can't take our traveling circus on the road like an electrician or steel erector can and make money at it. Typical scope of work is - erosion control, demo, grading and storm sewer.
Yes please pm me the info the ones I have found only are bidding the jobs then you spend all the time bidding them and to come to find out they don't even have the job
There is competition between the GC's bidding these projects but it's usually the same ones. Once you get into the invitation to bid chain with these GC's, you'll find the same names bidding a certain chain store on a regular basis. Basically you bid to all the GC's you know that are bidding the job. PM sent.
If you mean you pocketed $1200 (or $300/day) after paying rent on all your equipment, mobilization, dump fees, labor, etc., I'd say you did pretty well. Just a rough estimate, I'd guess you made in the neighborhood of 20%. $1200 (after all the bills are paid) for 4 days of work doesn't SOUND like a lot of profit, but if you look at it from a percentage standpoint I think you did alright.
I completely disagree. $300 a day is great for your personal wages. But its a business, you have to make money to cover the cost to purchase and maintain equipment, transportation cost (machines and yourself), insurance, licensing, advertising, office expenses, ect. No offense to the OP but it sounds to me like you were close to upside down on that job. A 20% profit for the company would be great, but the company didn't make $500 on this project. Company profit is calculated after all expenses including projected maintenance, repairs and paying yourself a wage for your days worth of work.
I think you might have misunderstood me. When I said " if you made $1200 after all the bills are paid" I meant ALL of them, including what you described. The only way we'll know for sure is how much was billed for the work. With the description of the time and labor it took to complete this work if 6k or less was billed, then I would agree it would be extremely tough to make $1200 free and clear. But we don't know without more information.
Maybe I misunderstood, I thought I read the total job cost listed at $2,500.
Maybe I missed that too. I also shouldn't get ahead of myself and make assumptions on a percentage of profit without knowing what was actually billed. That's what happens when you're drinking and posting on equipment websites. hahaha
Looking back, I think be probably billed 8 cans@$350 per can; machine rates around here would be $1125 for the 943, $720 for Bobcat, $800 for man labor, I would hope around $300 mobilization. That figures out to a little under $6000. Like I said earlier, he needs to find some more profitable work, or some way to do it faster but charge the same. This is why I don't like bid work. You end up working for nothing. This particular job, unless my hourly figures are way off, I think he did okay moneywise for time spent. The only opinion I would have is for 17 hrs machine time, he should have been in and out 2 days MAX. Working for yourself, if you're working 8 hr days, you ARE going broke. In the summertime, I work 12-14 hr. days, 6 days per week. Just my opinion.
The problem is I could have done it in two days if I can get the boxes faster one truck hauled 4 each day the first day I pushed everything down and sawed up the fourth day was not a work day on lot I just said I figured a days work hauling equipment to and from the job I completely finished the lot clearing silt fencing and contrustion exit all in the 3 days the boxes hired out was my my time killer but it would've took me as long to haul awY stumps brush in a tandem
There are guys around here that will clear lots for a minimal cost to get the wood, which makes it hard to bid and make any money on doing the work. They'll haul in a skidsteer or backhoe behind a pickup, cut the trees, load out the logs and chip the brush and just leave the chips on site. Then the excavating contractor has to deal with the stumps or you can grind them out of the work area, but that work can be done fast, a day or so, and it's not expensive to do. Even a small self propelled grinder like a Rayco or a Carlton will have it done quick and they don't cost a lot to hire. Firewood for sale runs about 200 a cord here, so if you're burning your own or selling it, it's valuable. It's a tight market around here; not much work to go around and guys are willing to do it at what has to be less than break even.
Sorry to dredge an old thread up but I it seems better than making a new one for just a few questions. I have a customer that wants me to clear a half-acre lot for a mobile home and haul everything off. The numbers I'm seeing in this thread and others are somewhere around 300cy of tree debris to a typical acre. However I think my job is smaller potatoes than most. There's no stumps involved, and only a handful of mature trees. The majority is >3" brush and scrub that I can push out with my 7000lb skid steer (the large trees are already on the ground). What I need to know is should I plan on less volume because there's no stumps? Or more because it's mostly smaller brush? Or about the same? I plan to haul it in a tandem dump with a regular gate. I have virtually no experience hauling brush so any tips are appreciated (especially about not getting the load stuck).
Can you pull out the top pins and chain the gate so it's like a tailgate on a pickup? Hook the chains so the gate is at about a 30° up-angle?
Good question. I'll have to ask the lady whose truck it is.
A lady dump truck driver. Sounds scary. Last mobile home I demolished and hauled off I charged 4k for and it too 7 loads in a quad with the tailgate still hinged on the top hinges. Had a backhoe where it was dumping to help if it didn't dump. As far as brush little trees takes longer then big ones but never had to haul them. Customers think its the other way around.
would it really need to be hauled off ? if its going to be yard a skid steer mulcher would make short work of it then you only need to haul the big stuff even one of those rental chippers with a 20 horse is soo much better than trying to pack a load of brush and then get it out. Oh I hope you have a hoe with a thumb to load the truck a skid steer simply is not going to work efficiently a few big logs on top can give a little weight to make the load slide but cant be over the tailgate hinge or even close everything will be hung up Hiring a rolloff would be far better than a tandem
Not to hijack the thread but after getting nowhere with dump trucks and rollbacks and grapple trucks I convinced the customer to let me just shove everything into a long windrow down the middle of the property that he'll be able to burn from one end on a wet day. It was a half acre lot that had been growing for about 15 years. I sorted any decent logs out and left all the stumps in the ground. After seeing the pile I feel like it would have been every bit of five 40 yard cans. If not a few more. What do you all think? Keep in mind there's about one can's worth out of frame beyond the stump there.
Pricing is crazy. We prepped a driveway for pave. Total cost for prep and 54 ton of asphalt, $6700.00. it was suggested that she lower her culvert before we pave to prevent cracking. An 18 inch 24 foot plastic pipe. Expose, remove, lower, backfill, compact, reditch about 150 feet to tie in the lowered pipe, a bit of labor, operator, move and demove a 145 linkbelt excavator $1400.00. Too much money, she would live with the crack. I like to have our finished product last, so I gave her a guy's name that might give her a better deal on lowering the pipe. He did it for $300.00. Either he's working for nothing, or my bosses are really making a lot of money
How could he even get out of bed for that money, let alone move in/move out, let alone do the work?
Dang I wish that guy was closer to Central NY I could give him a few projects around the property! Either this guy is working way too cheap or the guy who I paid in 2014 to do some work with a skid-steer to smooth out the yard after replacing septic tank charges too much. Guy used one of those stone picker/roto-tiller attachments to smooth out and area maybe 30 X 30 feet and then use a small dump truck to haul excess material about a 1,000 feet to back of property. That cost around $600.00 His shop is maybe 5 miles from my house and he slipped it in on the way home from another project.
Remember... you get what you pay for and you'd probably end up with a bigger crack after the guy 'lowers' the pipe...
That's the thing, the guy does good work. The home owner took pictures. He did it with a backhoe,put material back in two lifts, used a jumping jacks for compaction, even raked the ditch. He told me before that he doesn't want to get rich, just make a living, and provide good service to people
It would cost me $600 to mob a piece of equipment to the job - $300 each way... Even if he drove his backhoe to the site, wow that's cheap. My father taught me a very valuable business lesson - "Do not be tired and hungry at the same time - pick one."
I have done jobs like that in 3 or 4 hours with a 4 hour minimum I dont start for less than 400 bucks but I have a transport under the backhoe permanently you wont service here without it so I could see it being done between 400 and 700 bucks