newish machine to me- when i got it i ran it for a day and seemed to run it low on fuel as it bogged down and wouldnt rev and no power. filled it up and it worked thru the air bubble....... well weeks later i seem to have done it again (yes i know check fuel every use) but this time it choked itself out. i filled it and it worked thru a bit of air (i didnt know how to bleed it proper then) and ran fine- days go by and it bogs down like it is running low again and stalls. i put fuel in it (it wasnt out) so now when running air bubbles were present in top of filter. steps i have taken- took line off bottom of tank and made sure tank had good flow. took line off at pump- good flow still took filter off and used hand lever pump and made sure fuel squirted out fut filter back on and pumped to bleed air- never seemed to be able to fill filter and pumped A LOT. machine will start after pumping and die instantly- pump again and same thing- it seems that it isnt being fed fuel like maybe the pump isnt actually pumping? when running the filter seemed to have bubbles at the bottom...... the filter seemed clean and clear the lever flops loose in the "down" position and then seems to resist as it is coming up- i guess this is correct?
Did you try a new filter? Just because it looks clean doesn't mean that it is. Air leak in the system somewhere? You can suck air in without having fuel leaking out.
Put air to the fuel tank with a small blow gun . You put a small rag ball over filler hole while putting 1-2 psi on top of the fuel. Most leaks downstream will display with light positive pressure on top of tank. Have someone do it for you as you check for leaks. Dont over pressurize as you could have a diesel bath. Always have a finger under trigger of blow gun to limit air or use small regulator. Very easy way to find leaks that suck air when running. Easy way to also prime fuel system when bleeding. Have done this many a time in my carreer. Hope it helps. Simon C
So I filled it with fuel, put new air and fuel filter on it and hand pumped fuel into (that took awhile) and it started right up and turned right off I tried cracking the injectors while cranking but it was only me so it didn’t go to good So irritated and cranked the batteries down - they were weak already
Sorry I didn’t see the air tip- I will have to see if I can get air to where it is at
You will probably have to bleed the injectors on the head by cracking them open while cranking. Air pressure on fuel tank will speed up the bleed process really fast. Once a good amount of fuel comes out of the loose nut, close that one of and keep closing off the others as fuel starts to come out. May need 3 people to do with air. Simon C
Ok New air filter new fuel filter new batteries I don’t think it’s air now. After sitting for a day it started right up and reved but didn’t “clear” it ran for a minute and just died. Start right back up to immediately die- after sitting a bit starts and turns off after a bit I took the line off going to lift pump and got fuel. Line going to injector pump and got fuel. Took the screen out of the top of the injector pump and it looked clean- I blew thru it ok and squirted it down with carb cleaner (couldn’t figure out how to get screen off nozzle) put it back together and it cranked for a bit then started and ran for a couple min (longer then before) then died - I think it isn’t getting fuel. It sits and debri settles then runs and debri kicks up and blocks something and it turns off? I don’t know
If it was air I am thinking it would crank hard to fire? Maybe I should crack 3 injectors and crank to purge them just in case?
Try blowing back into the fuel tank with a air nozzle from the first filter. You will hear it bubble in tank. Maybe something is sucking into the suction line. Could you have possibly a fuel solenoid dropping out. Can't remember if these units have a fuel solenoid or not. You can try bleeding the injectors but there is the possibility that the hydraulic head of fuel pump need to be bled out. Few simple things to try to get it going. Simon C.
I took the line off the bottom of the tank and fuel free flowed I took the line off the lift pump and fuel free flowed I took the line off the injector pump and fuel free flowed I will crack injectors next while cranking but it seems like it starts and runs with hesitation ( not clear rev) not clear full throttle. Then shuts off - it doesn’t die out it clearly turns off like it had the key turned off I thought the screen on the injector pump was clogging but it seemed clear? Like it sucks something into blocking a line and then when it turns off it settles again- The longer it sits the longer it runs like it is trickling Felipe thru a blockage but I can’t seem to locate one
If the unit has an electric fuel solenoid on pump that drops out. That is often a cause of instant shutdown. If the power source to the solenoid drops out it is instantaneous shut down. A blockage will generally take 5-10 seconds to stop as pump starts to starve to death. 2 totally different sound as it dies. Is there a wire to a solenoid on the pump, if yes put a jumper with power from a battery source to the solenoid wire connection to see if it keeps running. Eventually you will get it. Simon C
I will look but I am pretty sure there isn’t a wire 1979 Machine Roosa master pump I think is just mechanical I will check when I get back to the machine or my book- Even when it runs it has hesitation and stumbles like there is air then it just turns off I wonder if it stumbles when idle because of air- as it is idling air chokes it out for a clean shut off? I am used to an air trapped machine stumbling itself out- this is quick turn off like the key or wire- thanks
Instant shut down is almost always associated with Electric fuel control. Have you tried someone putting 1 PSI of air to the tank with it running for you to see if or how it shuts down. Have known of a key switch that would support a fuel solenoid for 1 min. and then the weak contacts would drop out the fuel solenoid. There is or isn't a fuel solenoid on it. Hope this helps.
this is caused by the lift pump pulling against a vacuum. You move the lift arm, you're pulling the diaphragm back and trying to fill the pump chamber with fuel. Remove the line and block it with your finger to confirm how it works and what a vacuum on the suction side does to the feel of the lever. That suggests that the intake is plugged somehow, but the other evidence suggests otherwise? The other thing to check is the return fitting on the top of the injection pump, remove the whole fitting so you're looking directly into the pump, start it up, it will be messy. If it runs, the blow the fitting out, it might have a glass check ball in it that seems clear, but blow it with air or a garden hose. If it's plugged with mouse turds, then the flex ring is coming apart, fix it sooner than later. Either the pump has a mechanical shut off or an electric solenoid. If it turns off with a key, then it's a solenoid. If it turns off by pulling a knob etc. then it's mechanical.
Pardon the interruption but.. One thing that caught my eye as I was reading up on this thread was:: I pull the hose at the bottom of the tank and fuel flows free.. I took the line after the supply pump and fuel flowed free:: Fuel should not flow free after the supply pump.. U might have found your problem and walked right past it.??
Ok The machine turns off with a key not by pulling a knob so I guess there is a solenoid somewhere so much rain I didn’t go to the machine today pulling line off of the tank had free flow with out running cranking Line going into lift pump had flow without running or cranking All other line checks were running or cranking- sorry for the confusion
Looking to see the machine tomorrow will check fuel return line as suggested will look for the fuel solenoid on pump and into ignition switch as those are intriguing as well
As the (pumpguysc) said maybe your transfer pump is done. Look forward to hearing what is instantaneously shutting it down. Maybe more than 1 problem. Happens at times. All the best on getting it going again. Simon C
So I got to the machine today Yep a wire right out of the top- didn’t see it before Put test light on and machine fired right up- turned off after a min and light still on- not solenoid Pulled the reurn line off the pump and started machine, fuel squirted out from pump making a mess but machine ran clear and dint turn off. Cleaned check valve fitting and put back on- machine started and sounded clear then started to hesitate like before and then turned off Removed check valve and machine ran clear and stayed running With machine off fuel kinda built up and oozed out of top of pump with no line connected I don’t really get the check valve on this as it doesn’t seem to be a check valve I am used to but now to search parts for where to get a new one from
Check valve obviously causing some grief. Some solenoids do start a unit and then drop out with power still on them, but yours sounds like a top of pump return valve problem. Hopefully you can get new parts and please keep us posted as to how it turns out. Simon C
You need to have your pump repaired. Bob
Well I took the return line off and blew it clear back to the tank Started machine with line removed and check valve installed- machine started and sounded clear Turned machine off and installed return line- started machine and it ran clear for awhile (4 min maybe) then turned off put a rag under the pump and took the side plate off and got “mouse turds” The gasket plate is coming apart - damn now to find a pump repair place thanks all
I can fix that pump for ya.. They have a part that takes the place of the plastic flex ring..
interested in finding out more of this option
Prvt msg sent
thepumpguy is the expert on this stuff, very well recomended around here. Takes bad checks too!
Good to hear- we are in communication trying to figure out logistics…… good to know he takes bad checks!
Si I sent the pump out to thepumpguy- I was able to install it this afternoon- Machine cranked for awhile with an injector line cracked and then fired right up- I worked the machine for about 15 min and it ran great! then I shut it off and heard a hissing and a touch of steam- and realized the temp gauge wasn’t working- I checked the oil level prior to starting and will check for a bit to make sure I didn’t roll the cone gasket on the driveshaft and let it “make” oil big shout out to thepumpguy for setting me straight and getting me back running
Any time my friend.!! It was a pleasure..
Thepumpguysc is the bomb! Most of the time he can tell you exactly what's wrong, what parts you need and where to get them just by reading your post. He helped me on my Perkins and was absolutely correct that you can't buy some parts individually. You have to buy a whole kit unless someone has put together a home made kit of just what you need.