Hi all, had a question about JD parts that hopefully someone could answer. I have a 12" chipper with a JD engine that needed a fuel injector pump #SE501234. The one that was installed (part of a larger nightmare issue) was sold to me as a John Deere Reman @ $2000. It has a serial number plate which says John Deere Reman on it, but the unit itself looks like it was well used or maybe on a shelf for 20 years. I called the dealer asking if there was a mistake and they said they come that way sometimes?? No reason not to believe the guy, reputable dealer and all, but I know they had a hard time getting the machine going and had to switch fuel pumps a few times. The questions would be, when a reman pump comes from JD, do they put a new serial # label on it so it can be identified for warranty? Would the dealer's invoice have that number on it? Do they often come with rusted components and looking way used?? This one has a faded old label with rust on the edges and bubbling through it from rust below, and generally looks like it's as old as the rest of the pump looks. I'll be talking with the service manager on Monday about this, my concern being that in all the switching they did that maybe the one they ordered for me as a replacement did not find its way back on the machine. The machine runs great, the problem they had with the non-start was due to the timing of the installed pump not aligned properly with the pinhole on the flywheel. Anybody with experience or knowledge in this? I'd love to go into that conversation with a little better understanding. Thanks!
It is a little hard to tell from 2500 miles away but that paint damage and rusting looks like it possibly could have happened just from steam cleaning the engine after it was installed.
Agree with Birken for the paint, as for the label hard to say... looks like touch up on there too??? So are you saying the dealer installed the pump multiple times? and once wrong?
Interesting point and one I was ready to accept from them on some level. The label is certainly not recent though. That's why I was hoping to find out about the serial number. I really want to believe these guys, but I had heard different stories along the way as why it took two months to get it running. Our initial assessment was that it needed a computer. Ran great but would turn off with a "no communication" code then usually start right up again. They changed that and the injector pump at the same time because "the computer took it out". Then they said it was running poorly and they were trying to figure it out. Several weeks later they said that it never ran and they couldn't figure out why so they changed the $1100 wiring harness (said it was full of test holes and destroyed...they were the only ones to work on it. Left me with the feeling they were just throwing parts at it!). Still didn't run. Eventually after hours and hours of labor checking mechanical potentials, they discovered that the timing of the pump was off. Corrected it and it runs great, like it did when they got it-just doesn't shut down now. $10,000 and two months out of service later I got it back. In all that they told me they switched the original and reman injector pumps back and forth, and I think they even mentioned they took one off another machine. I just found it hard to believe that this pump came straight from a reman. Hopefully I can match serial numbers and put this to rest. My fear is they may say they don't come with serial numbers and I'll have to eat it. Just hoping someone can tell me for sure that they do or not. Seems like they'd want to for warranty sake, and this one has a sticker on it so they at least did at some point (and remanned the reman). Thanks though! That was my thought about it originally.
Sounded that way Ronsii...
** … My opinion counts for Zip … But that pump you posted looks like a "USED" reman pump. The definition of reman is RE manufactured. That is like new... with a one year parts and labor warranty. See here.. https://www.deere.com/en_NAF/parts/...ozzles/fuel_injection_pumps_and_nozzles.page?
For a minute I was going to ask if you were anywhere near Minnesota and a certain cat dealer that starts with a 'Z' cause there is a thread on here about a D6 cat that sounds reminiscent of that type of work....
The serial number of that pump is on the tag on pump in your last picture, it is just in barcode . I have no idea how convert s barcode. I have dealt with issue with these pumps and their timing. TDC must be obtained by rolling the engine in the direction of normal rotation to TDC. The pump has a plug that is removed and there is a timing slot in the rotor. The dealership should have this basic knowledge. Every DE10 reman pump I have installed did not have Any paint on it except for the security paint marks on the adjustment screws.
That the serial number is blacked out is suspicious to me... But then I'm naturally suspicious. $2,000 is a full price SE501234 reman pump direct from Deere
18040661 ---barcode type 39
Bar code is 18040661 if that means anything to anybody
That is not a new pump.. JD remans come WITH OUT ANY PAINT.. except the tamper paint on non adjustable components. THATS probably YOUR old pump that's been checked by a fuel shop. IF the dealer ordered that pump, THEY"LL have the paperwork w/ pump & serial #.. THATS how its identified.. There are 20 thousand pumps out there but they are singley identified by serial #.. Some BrakeKleen on a rag will take off that black marker..
When Pumpguy says it's used, believe him... Although why would your engine have a reman pump unless it's been serviced before. If the black is magic marker, try denatured alcohol (Alcohol is not hard on paint). What ever solvent you use.. try it on unimportant label lettering first, then the black.
Upon closer inspection.. JD doesn't use the "gobbed-on" method on their tamper seal paste.. You got screwed my friend.. So much for the "reputable dealer" angle..!! I've had hundreds if not thousands of THOSE PUMPS in my hands..{DE} Some from JD reman & some I did.. NOT 1 of them looked like THAT.!!! I would get some close-up pics & send them directly to JD w/ an nice long letter.. be SURE to get the name plate.. Like I said>> that pump came from a fuel shop after a calibration check.. & possibly a real quick tear down?? You can see on EVERY NUT, BOLT & SCREW, wrench marks, where it was removed.. I just did a quicky search & Oregon Fuel Injection has a NEW PUMP not a reman for 1575.00 What a bunch of dumba**'s.!!!! at least paint it.!! JD pumps DO NOT COME PAINTED..
Let me tell ya this.. I did a dozer last year w/ a DE pump on it.. I diagnosed it, pulled the pump, rebuilt it, put it back on, started the machine & looked for leaks.. Total bill was 1000.00.. & they charged you 2000.00 for a junk yard pump.. NOT GOOD..
Charging 10k to fix a chipper for a no start is how you pay for a nice shop with a bridge crane lol
AMEN to that Mike.. This kinda sh*t makes my blood boil.. & that's EXACTLY WHY I do what I do.. OEM dealers & fuel shops lining their pockets, from the blood sweat & tears from the people who put food on our tables.. makes me sick.. If they DID order a pump.. it aint THAT ONE.. & if they SHOW YOU an invoice, the serial #'s aren't gonna match up.. THATS WHY they blanked it out.!!! I'll bet money if u call the nearest fuel shop, they'll tell you if they had a DE pump in there in the last few weeks/month from your dealer.. AND.. ALL PUMPS that go thru a fuel shop are recorded, pump AND serial #..
Pumpguy confirms my first thought. That "reputable dealer" should be known (through out your area) as lying, incompetent parts changers that cheat their customers.
1 MORE THING.. A computer WONT>> "take out" an inj. pump.. I feel for ya bud.. Probably the more u read this stuff, the madder your getting.?? ANYBODY that works on these things HAS TO get info on it..BEFORE tackling it.. so you find out HOW TO take a pump off.. especially a dealer should KNOW HOW to do it.. ANY dealer mechanic KNOWS the flywheel hole will come up twice..{on any machine} but the pump timing hole will only come up once.. SO.. you drop the pin IN THE PUMP 1st.. THEN CHECK the flywheel hole.. Hell, the more I write, the madder I'M getting.!!
You guys are fantastic! Sorry I couldn't get back sooner, long day yesterday with sketchy service. All of this makes sense, especially pumpguy's description of the pin hole **** up. Also, I grayed out the numbers before sending it, thinking THEY were the serial numbers in the remote case that one of their techs was on this forum. That number is my easy trump card for proof and I didn't want them to have the number before I ask them for the one on the invoice. So appreciate all the info on the pump and serial number. I'm hoping that when I call they'll own up to it and say they screwed up, they were going to "investigate" it and get back to me today. The whole situation was a bad experience. I've owned and repaired a lot of heavy equipment in my years in business (family equipment rental shop) but some things I have to send out, like this computer issue. Hate being at the mercy of folks like this! I'll follow up with the outcome later on! Thanks so much for the input!! Evan
Dam Evan ! You are on the ball. I think that stealership is going to be real embarrassed when you have them backed into a corner with the info you now have. I am looking forward to hearing the outcome from the bunch of thieves.
Ha! If I was really on the ball we would have caught it before it left their lot! Called him this morning, said the only way we'll really know is to check the serial number. He hemmed and hawed a bit before saying they just track warranty with the SE number so there's no real way to check it. I told him the serial number is the bar code and should be on the invoice He was going to track that down and get back to me! haha! One question I have though. He mentioned that he believes the one that came off my machine was completely unpainted, and that it was an RE, not an SE, indicating that it was a new one and possibly original. If we never changed that pump (had it so long I really can't remember...but couldn't think when we would have), wouldn't it be yellow like the motor? And if it was changed, I wouldn't have sprung for a new pump. Would an RE pump be installed under warranty? Can't wait to see what he comes up with!! Will report!!
Stay on them like a bull in a China shop it's one thing to pay a premium for service it's not excusable to pay for some ones inept laziness I had a dealer charge me for parts they couldn't prove they put in and a whole mess of things in labor I went three rounds with the service manager with no solution and a machine that still wouldn't work and the store manager and salesman wouldn't take it seriously It got real serious that afternoon when I dumped 4 machines of in there yard and put a stop payment on the finance check within 4 hours they had the situation rectafied
It ain't over til it's over! They didn't get back to me before closing, and I'm out of the office tomorrow. I'll see what they have to say on Wed.
Ask them to pull a pump off their shelf.. doesn't have to be one for YOUR engine.. ANY JD reman.. IT AINT PAINTED.. I wonder if the mechanic is pulling a fast one?? You know the type, ordering new parts & reinstalling the old parts.. then selling the new parts online.. THAT happens at the dealerships DAILY!!! .. maybe the S. mngr has no clue what happened?? & that's BS about the paper trail.. ALL PUMPS are tracked by SN.. If you have to send a pump back to JD for warranty & don't have a SN on the paperwork, they wont accept the claim & it gets kicked right back.. You are getting so much smoke blown up your *** it aint funny.. I feel for ya..
No one should be surprised. Dealers have done this crap for years. If your machine is in their shop and it needs a starter or alternator, they will get your rebuilt at a cheap price, but you will pay for the Manufacturers unit at 5+ times the cost. I just saw this a couple of weeks ago with the local JD dealer here. Theres no way in hell that's a reman pump and I dam sure wouldn't pay for it!
BINGO, Vetech.. MY OLD BOSS use to order a reman pump, lets say from JD.. "WE" would get a HUGE discount, say 50% off of that from a walk-in customer.. Then he would "mark it up" 100-200.00 LESS than JD would sell it to a walk in customer.. "saving the customer money"..
Got hold of them today, such a good scam they have going. He still maintained that he didn't have a serial number and that one was the reman they ordered for me. I then told him how I spent my weekend on a forum board talking to folks well educated about the parts and process. He hammered a bit, then offered "just to keep our customers happy" that he would be willing to exchange that pump with a new one fresh from the factory for my peace of mind. That's when I knew I had him! I then used all the wonderful info you folks gave me to explain to him why it was not from the factory ("does JD paint red marks on adjustable components? ...no. Does JD paint their remans-three different coats of different shades?? ...no. All pumps absolutely have a serial number on them for warranty, not just the part number. If you can't get me that number it tells me you never ordered one and this is a used pump. ...uhhh") I then told him how I'm beginning to think this a criminal matter that I'll have to look into, and that since I paid with a credit card (intentionally) that I will just call my card and have them reverse the charges. He was a little less confrontational after that! haha He is still going to dig up that serial number, but said he will credit me back the full price of that pump regardless if it's new or not. Hasn't yet, but I'll get it done tomorrow! Thanks again for all your help!! You guys ROCK!! Evan
ROCK HELL.. I want a "cut"..LOL If hes gonna credit you, take it & be done w/ them.. & spread the word like WILD FIRE.. Either HE pulled a fast one or the mechanic did & he got caught in the middle.?? Either way, somebody should lose their job.. IMO.. I'd have the labor cut in half too.. They supposedly took the pump off twice & as we know, put your old one back on.. so get a credit for the "new/reman" pump AND the labor.. & have'm show u the book time on it.. cuz THATS what "U" got charged.. SO which was it?? a bad pump, obviously not.. OR a bad computer?? I'd have a REAL CLOSE LOOK at THAT too.. who knows, it might be yours too?? Its a real shame this happened to ya.. its a real cluster fk.. To tell ya the truth>> I'd have'm cut the WHOLE BILL IN HALF.. or the next call I{you} make will be to an attorney.. see how THAT goes over..?? I wish u hadn't called them & went face to face w/ the guy.. I love watchn um squirm.. hahaha
Well now that you know they are shysters That is something that really grinds me is dishonesty and stealing let's face it if you hike up the invoice on a customer that's all that is is stealing Personally I would never set foot in there again if they do it once they will do it again
My concern here is what are you going to do if you burn your bridge and then need dealer level service later? If a vendor ticks me off I might not bring them any more work but I am just going to remain silent about it in case I need them for something later. Not saying don't collect your money, do that. What about a call to Mother Deere, if they give a hoot. But they might, seeing as how they were cheated out of the sale of a reman but you got billed for it.
This story reminds me of a 20mt starter for a 450 Deere dozer I pieced together(the dozer). I had everything but the nose cone so I sent it off to a local guy who is a “rebuilder” who had a good used nose. It never would turn the engine with much vigor which was what I sorta expected. I finally got mad and put another used one on I had traded for and it was night and day difference. I took off the end cap and one of the brushes wasn’t connected to the holder, nice. I had my dad take it back to be warranted, I get it back in a week with a $175.00 bill! Me- hey man what’s with the bill for this warranty job? Him- it was all burned up inside, no warranty. Me- bologna, it’s fine, you didn’t connect a brush when you built it and I could have done it but you need to lick your own calf. Him- getting loud now, what do you think you’re doing opening up MY STARTER? Me- listen pal it’s my starter not yours and I’ll open it up if I darn well please so don’t try this it’s burned up stuff because I know better. Him- sputtering noises. Me- if you can live with yourself knowing that I caught you lying and trying to rip me off, go ahead and send me a invoice and I’ll pay it, but if you’re any kind of man at all, you’ll tear up your invoice and throw it away. I hung up the phone. He never sent a bill. Some people prey on people’s ignorance of items often seen as alchemy ( electrical and injection) and make a raping with no conscience at all.
Birken is right dont burn your options cause in an extreme pinch you may need something Also I know the local ag dealer got audited by deere for similar things among witch was doing the same thing on warranty claims to do deere anyway deere does audit that and if you can get in contact with the right department you will get somewhere I know for a fact deere slapped the local dealers hand pretty hard they kept it all pretty hush hush tho deere didn't want word to get out that happened and the dealer especially didn't want word to get out Makes a guy wonder how much of that goes on that is never noticed
We reached the end. They just credited $2500 back to my card, "Customer Satisfaction Discount". What a completely ridiculous sh*t show. They won't be seeing anything of ours again, and I'll steer people away from them, but probably won't pursue it further or trash them in public or social media wise. Not sure what's actually going on there, but hate to hurt all the others who work there for a few bad eggs. Thanks again to all of you for your input and comments! Truly appreciated!!