I put in a bid and won a fixer upper model 644 Lull Telehandler. Cut and paste the ebay link or check out item #170442453396. Feel free to critique the purchase. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170442453396&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT I have not personally inspected the machine yet, but it is sitting on one flat tire. The tilt hydraulic cylinder has a pitted piston which needs to be replaced. Some hydraulic lines are disconnected. Will have to see when I get there next weekend. Its about a 1-1/2 hour drive from my home. The question has arisen: How much does this machine weigh? The seller tells me 27,000 lbs - hard to believe or is this accurate? If anyone knows, please chime in. Does anyone have the parts/service manuals for this particular model on pdf format? Would love to get any info on this machine that I can. The seller does not know if its a 37 foot lift or 42 foot lift. Thanks! J. Stewart
I also wanted to know its approximate dimensions (like length and width to see if it will fit on our trailer). The seller tells me that this model has the John Deere 4239 diesel engine. Thanks
Looks to me to be a Highlander I model. Mid to late 80's machine. Could be a 26' or a 34' machine. The Highlanders did not come in a 42' height (i think). The weight will be 20,000 to 21,000 lbs. Looked on JLG website and they dont list the Highlanders for parts and service manuals. You may try to call their service dept and they can email you a pdf for everything you need. Best of luck on this machine, they were pretty tough lifts, hopefully there still some life left in her!
Man you stole that thing!! I dont have a 644 but I have a 844 Highlander that is about the same age and condition. I beleive 99% positive that my 844 weighs 22K lbs so that has to weigh a little less. As far as size I can tell you personaly I have put mine on a 10ton tag trailer. The tires hung over about 4-6" on each side. a little scarry loading, but it was a short trip. good luck I love my 844
Good deal I was watching that machine. It is 34' machine and weights about 22,000 844 is 23,500. 644 is 8' wide. Length is same as 844 for trailer purposes. You can get a manual on ebay or JLG but it won't be in PDF. it will be old book style. Web Equipment may have a used rod for you to replace the pitted one. If they don't you can still get new if not in stock it takes about 4 weeks plus. Serial number should be on the right side of cab below metal screen near load chart. If I had few pictures of the cab interior I could get closer on the year. You can do a historical search on the machine if the serial number is missing. They can trace it by tags on the axles and give you the history which is good for parts purchasing. Tires look decent the rims may be rotted with calcium they are near the age of failure. Sometimes when you take them apart the o-ring will not reseal on the rim. You can put a tube in if not severely rotted or get new rim for about 300-350. New rim lets you just plug a tire in the field. It may leak at the wet drive line brakes at the seal and the yoke. The yoke it 1200$$$$ You can sleeve the yoke cheap with stainless and it will last forever then better than new. It could also have just the dry drive-line brakes which ended in early 80's. They worked good and easy to service. Check the planateries and swap out all the fluids and filters in the machine. Post some pictures when you get it. great machines with a tad of care, I have 3 844 1985, 1985 and 1986 and a 1990 1044B all since new or with 50-400 hours. It is easier to back it up a tag trailer than drive on front ways. JD good engines. Keep the rollers greased but don't let the roller surface get grease on it they may then slide and flatten. Check tension on the cable in the boom cable. You bought it good and can still put some bucks into it and get it back if you sold it.
Thank you. This is GREAT information. Seller told me that all of the rest of the hydraulic cylinders are fine. He told me that they disconnected the hydraulic lines to that tilt cylinder because it was leaking fluid - so they disconnected them and capped them - not sure how they capped them, but let me ask a dumb question. If I start the machine, won't hydraulic pressure blow those caps off and shoot fluid all over the place? I should probably re-connect these lines before I attempt to start it up. Seller says a couple of other lines need to be replaced - Not sure how this will all pan out - I'll have to see when I get there - We just want to get it on the trailer so we can get it home - we will attempt to do this on saturday - will post photos of the machine. Concerning the pitted piston: Could this piston be purchased at a local hydraulic shop, or is this possibly a "dealer only" item? Hoping to save a few bucks here. The seller says the serial number is JD2649N. I spotted another 644 on another website with a serial number with an identical format ("JCXXXXN"), but that machine had an "XXXX" that was about 200 greater than this machine. It was a 1990 model, so I guess by extrapolation, this suggests that our 644 is about a 1989 or 1990 model.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LULL-644-FORKLI...ItemQQimsxZ20100129?IMSfp=TL100129191017r5978 parts manual bidding ended but it still may be available http://cgi.ebay.com/LULL-644-844-10...ItemQQptZBI_Books_Manuals?hash=item23047772b6
the oil won't come out when started unless you hit the lever for the tilt. May be better to connect it to get carriage And forks back for easier trailering. Web Equipment probably has a used one. For kicks the lift rod on my 844 is 1800+ I will just replace the seal after 20+ years of having the nick since I got it in 86. one site I saw said it is 18,xxx lbs but I think they are wrong. You may be able to get the rod refinshed or try to clean it smooth it out and throw some seals in it for a while. Seal is cheaper 50-60 bucks and if the rod is smoothed out it will last a while. Go early on Sat in case you have a problem with the tire and need a shop to throw a tube in it. Ask around where the machine is so you have one or two guys to turn to on the tire and if they work on Sat. Seller may know of a source or you could have them get the tire up before you go there. Gauge gasket is still there so save it and you can get some lexan on ebay 8x12" for cheap and cover the gauges like they were when new so the don't get hammered out by some POS. When you do trailer it be aware the boom may come out by itself while trailering so chain carriage/ fork bar to the frame or something they have no holding valve on that cylinder on my 844 or 1044. Don't ask me how I know this:Banghead:Banghead May want to locate a hydraulic hose place down near the machine also and ask if they are there Sat.
I couldn't wait until the weekend. I took advantage of the Mardi Gras holiday today and I drove down to Houma and here's a few pictures of what I saw. I took the flat tire off and brought it home for repair. It had no tube and no ballast. I brought to a local tire repair man and he will put a tube in it. I had to take a wire wheel to the inside of the rim and put a coat of primer on it. Machine looks good overall. The "pitted" cylinder turns out not to be pitted. It looks like it could be polished with steel wool. That cylinder will likely need to have the packing replaced. I did not try to start the engine. The seller tells me he started it two months ago and it ran good. We are planning to bring a trailer down there this saturday and bring it home.
Still looks like a good deal to me! I hope it runs and operates good for ya.
Here's a few more.
And a couple more.
To bad that the bar on the cariage is bent!!
You can press it straight or I found a company that sells replacements the other day made in the USA.
check the oil and coolant before you start it. Get some brass wool it is softer.
If you can post the name of that company. I need to replace that bent rod so I can move that fork over. Thanks.
http://www.arrowforklift.com/telehandler-forks-and-shafts.html I think yours is listed and 1-7/8" should be able to press yours and if it bends again then dump it. But new is nice also.
We took our three axle equipment trailer to Houma today, but we FAILED to bring the machine home. It was too heavy for our trailer. We drove it up onto the trailer and ALL of the trailer's tires were scraping the under surface of the deck. We unloaded it and headed home empty. I will hire a lowboy to go get it at some point in the future. BUT, all was not lost! We got to familiarize ourself with this machine. It turns out that it is somewhat of a basket case. 1. The freeze plug on the rear of the cylinder head has popped out. We found it and stuck it back on hand tight. This will have to be replaced with a new one. 2. ALL of the hydraulic cylinders leak hydraulic fluid. All of them need new packings/seals. 3. The hydraulic cylinder that levels the machine from side to side (the prominent one in the photo below) is NON-FUNCTIONAL, although we can see the inlet and outlet hoses jerk when we actuate the lever that services that particular cylinder. This left the machine leaning toward one side. We had to use another forklift to help it get to the level position you see in the photo. The seller believes that rebuilding that cylinder will rectify the problem. 4. The hydraulic fluid is contaminated with water and is slightly milky. The hydraulic filter that drops into the top of the hydraulic fluid reservoir appears to be clogged (the needle on the gauge attached to the filter housing pegs when you rev the engine - the gauge is faded and hard to read, but I believe that this means its clogged. We removed the filter and fluid does not appear to flow freely through it. 5. The tranny had no fluid or very little fluid in it. We tried to drive it up the trailer ramp a couple of times and it wouldn't go - kept pausing half way up - checked the tranny fluid and discovered it did not register on dipstick. Noticed that dipstick says to use "C-3 fluid only" - Not sure what C-3 fluid is. I went to NAPA and the guy behind the counter did not know either. I bought some dexron/mercon and poured it in and the machine went up the ramp fine. If this is the wrong fluid, let me know and I'll drain it out once we get it home. 6. Brakes very weak and one brake line is disconnected out near the tire - not sure why - I guess it was leaking - not looking forward to doing a brake job on this machine. 7. One of the larger hydraulic cylinders (the one that you can see when you are standing at the rear of the machine and you look up toward the sky to visualize the tail end of the boom) has a couple - maybe ten ' rust particles adhered to the shiny portion of the piston - these are probable pits in the chrome. These will have to be smoothed out. 8. There is no ignition key. We had to unscrew the key assembly and "hot wire" it. The seller tells me he will try to locate the key. Other than that, I guess I'm satisfied with the purchase. Here's my questions: 1. Where is the best place to purchase hydraulic cylinder rebuild kits for these? 2. What is the proper fluid to put in the transmission? 3. Anyone have an operators manual that they can fax me a few pages out of? 337-289-7680 We had some trouble teaching ourselves how to operate 4. Has anyone serviced the brakes on these machines? Any info appreciated. J. Stewart
u have a bunch of work ahead of you. If you are doing all the deals with the condition of everything I think you need to do them all at once and try to flush every cylinder and the entire hydraulic system.
Lube schedule may be inside the tool box door. seal not deal above Tilt cylinder in the rear of the boom is a slave cylinder that keeps the forks in the same position or level if you start that way. The gauge on the filter even when real cold won't peg it so you are right it is probably clogged. Should be an Arlon filter set up. If you do the brakes and they are drivline I would sleeve the yokes while it is apart. Weak brakes could also be the master cylinder just under the pedal and floor. You can put some wood blocking between the front frame and the axle cradle to keep it from tilting again. Check the boom extension cylinder also for leaks in the boom. Clean the hydraulic tank also and if you are doing that do the fuel side as it is all one piece. I have no clue how people pound a machine into a state like that.:beatsme
Well just curious how's it going?
Thanks for checking in. I have not got her home yet. The low-boy that I hired has been busy with other previously arranged heavy hauls. He is going to bring it to my place this coming saturday. In the meantime, I'm clearing some space out of the barn. This thing will be kept under roof from now on (previous owners kept it outside). I've been trying to figure out how the hydraulic fluid got so badly contaminated with water. I could use some tips on clearing all the water out of the system. I've also been studying on how to repair hydraulic cylinders. I've never dismantled one before. That forward tilt cylinder will be the first one that I go through. One of the vendors I contacted told me that my machine is a 1992 model, based upon serial number. The seller never found the ignition key. Is this a universal type key that I can buy off ebay or the Lull parts dealer? I saw a couple of auctions that mentioned Lull Keys.
You can get a standard key switch in an auto parts store. You will have to drain the whole system all the cylinders, hoses, and tank if it is that bad. Most cylinders I have found are easier to leave one end on the machine when you do them. Two people make it easier for sure. I got a few good tips here so when ready yell. Hardest part is usually getting them apart. I bought a huge pipe wrench and a 6' pipe for leverage. There are special tools to remove the piston. It was back ordered and near 400 bucks. What I find helpful is to take pictures as you take it apart so you can look at the seals if you forget how they go. Parts book for mine is not to detailed. Tapping the end caps was the best tip I got here to take them apart ballpein ll taps and patience it saves a ton of work. I'll look for the threads when I ask here. I have some pictures if I get my other computer fixed for you. I would try not to run the system to mush as you don't want to hurt the hydraulic pump if possible. Can you drain and do all the cylinders in one operation?
OK, I finally got the machine transported this week and I've had a chance to look over the various components. Here's my questions: 1. What is the aftermarket part# for the transmission filter? See photo. Mine is a spin on type, but there are no markings on the external surface. 2. What is the aftermarket part# for the in-tank hydraulic filter? See photo. Mine has no identifying numbers on it. 3. The frame tilt cylinder does not work at all (no visible response whatsoever) when the lever is acuated, although I notice that both the inlet hydraulic hose and the outlet hydraulic hose will jerk when the cylinder is actuated (I assume that this means fluid is moving, but is bypassing the cylinder). Could this be a check valve problem? I notice that there are aluminum rectangular boxes (check valves?) through which the hydraulic fluid must pass, one on the top of the frame tilt cylinder and the other on the inside of the frame, near the bottom of the tilt cylinder. There is a single removable bolt on the outside of these boxes. I removed this bolt and there is a spring underneath, but I cannot see anything else in there. Is there a removable piston at the bottom of that spring that could be causing the tilt cylinder to fail? 4. The rear tilt cylinder has rust particles on cylinder rod. I treated them with navel jelly three times and rubbed them with brass wool. But even after this, I can still feel some "bumps" when I run my fingers across them. Can I use fine crocus cloth on these spots or are there any other treatments that I can use? 5. The hydraulic fluid is milky - see photo. What would be the best approach to get all of the water out of the system? That hydraulic fluid is expensive! 6. Does anyone have a lube order for this machine? Mine has been obliterated. I have a service manual on order. Maybe some of these questions will be addressed when I get it. Thanks for any input! J.Stewart
You need to drain the entire machine All the lines, cylinders, tank, and brakes as they probably have the same supply from the hydraulic tank. Filter # I can get tomorrow. Looks like my 844 and looks like you have a baldwin on there now. The Arlon filter I have never found after market and it is probably 80+ I have not bought one in a while. they probably have the hydraulic filter here http://www.harlowfilter.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=295 google is great! Much metal on the magnet in the hydraulic filter? There is usually a little fuzz on them. Decent parts house could probably match the tranny filter easy. If I go to my machines I'll get the number. I think I have one in the truck also to look. I'll see what I can fax in the morning.C-3 fluid I think is Allison spec. here I found this http://www.finalube.com/Product_Data_Files/Fina_Branded_PDF_Files/Allison_C3.pdf http://reliancelube.tradeindia.com/Exporters_Suppliers/Exporter13153.327036/ALLISON-C-310-330.html look on Dextron 3 or 4 label and it usually says meets C-3. Post a picture of the tilt cylinder. If real bad you may have to get it refinished for the seal to last any length of time.
Thank you Speedpup. I will probably start draining the system this weekend. I'm going to prop the boom up on top of a storage container so that I can work underneath it safely and disconnect the hoist cylinder. I will drain out all the hoses and tank as recommended. Where exactly is the arlon filter? Is this the same filter as the "in-tank hydraulic filter"? Thanks for the link to Harlow filter. I contacted them and although they don't have a cross reference for the Lull part number for the in-tank hydraulic filter, they asked me to email the dimensions to them and they will see if they have a match. I believe that my old filter has a Donaldson logo on it. Thank you for the explanation with regards to "C-3" transmission fluid. I believe that the Dexron/Mercon fluid that I used meets that specification. I did not see any metal particles on those magnets - hope this is a good omen. I will photograph the rear tilt cylinder rod this saturday and post. I got my service manual today! Time to study up! I can't wait to get this thing up and running!
be very carfull removing check valves in the frame stabilization cylinder i have not worked on many tele handlers but while a 723 bobcat i believe was in the shop another mechanic was messing with it because it was stuck or would not self level. anyways he removed the relief valve to check and another mechanic was next to him looked at the relief valve with his head over the top moved and about that time it came out like a rocket with a big BOOM. hit the ceiling denting the foam padding and flew across the shop so stand very clear if you remove the relief valves if you don't know the exact working of them. Don't want to here of you getting hurt or loosing an eye
you could flush the system a few times with cheap oil and then fill with a better oil to run with changing the filters with each flush. on the bobcats we would drain them trough the aux couplers till you just here the pump wine and shut it down it does not get all the oil out each time but about 90% of it.
if the pump is whining could you not wipe out the pump? Not sure there is cheap oil any where unless you had some used stuff that was not bad.
don't forget the planataries and diffs. Filling the diffs is a PITA so I got an elbow to thread in where the 3/8" drive drain plug is and then put a 4-6" piece of threaded PVC on it. Then just fill the pipe when it is upright. You can do the same for the diffs just a larger 90* elbow. arlon is the one in the tank. I would take pictures of your filter with a ruler next to it L X W X H hole diameter. Good if nothing is on the magnets as long as they are still magnetic. Are brakes on the driveline? Are they enclosed wet system?
Bobcatmechanic: Thanks for the heads up on that danger involving the check valve on the frame tilt cylinder. I was reading the service manual last night and I saw that exact same warning regarding that particular cylinder. I did not realize this when I was fooling with them last weekend. Guess I lucked out - there was pressure present and I allowed it to bleed slowly before I backed out the plug all the way. I also noticed that the service manual contains a protocol for flushing the hydraulic system in cases of contamination. That will help out a lot. The gentleman at Harlow filter says he has the in-tank hydraulic filter for $56.49. He would not give me the part number but said that it was a Luberfiner brand. I looked on the Luberfiner web site and they give a Luberfiner part# of LH22033 for the hydraulic filter, but I cannot find any other vendors that carry a comparable filter (anyone have access to some good hydraulic filter cross reference charts?). Just trying to save a buck here. I'm not thrilled about paying $65 (incl shipping) for one filter! I'm attaching two photos to address the brake question. I think I have the wet brakes. One photo shows the brake line that was disconnected by the previous owner - I guess because it was leaking. The other shows the emergency brake. Notice the hydraulic oil that leaked all over the place (from the leaking hoist cylinder). Question: What is the type of oil that you put in your planetaries? I noticed in the manual they call it "P09926 Wheel End Oil" - Never heard of this. Is there anything comparable? I went to the local Sam's Club last night and found out they no longer carry hydraulic oil - will have to shop around for another source. I have a lead on the carcass of a Lull 400 forklift - just a chassis with 4 tires, the axles, drivetrain and chrysler gas engine (the acutal forklift part has been cut off and is long gone). I was wondering if any of the axle parts are shared in common with those used on the 644. I was thinking of buying it just to get those four 13.00 x 24 tires/rims - the asking price is worth it!
I'm confused over which hydraulic fluid to purchase. There are multiple types at NAPA, some for only $405 for a 55 gallon drum. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what types would be acceptable in the Lull 644? See this link: https://www.napaonline.com/Search/C...239+FHQ85755_0006416239+FHQ85105_0006417405+# Any input appreciated.
65 for that filter is a decent deal Lull wants probably a 100+ planataries you can use 90-140 gear oil and Kendall fiction modifier. http://www.riversidegear.com/categories/products/product-722.html http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=VAR043_0006411647 what was the saving of buying 55 gallons vs 5 gallon pails? I have not priced it in years. Hatch the hydraulic filter yet? I will be at my machines tomorrow if not. Look similar to yours and mine. http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=FIL1120_0212756609 You will need a way to transfer the 55 GA drum oil to the tank. Learn all you grease fitting postions
Hey Speedpup, did you have a chance to look on your transmission filter and see if there was a brand and part number on it? The NAPA links that you gave in the previous post were not working for me. If you could give me the NAPA part number of the item you are pointing out, that would be very helpful. Thanks for the advice on the friction modifier. I will be ordering some of that stuff, but I wonder if it is sold locally in the same or different brand. I did some research and concluded that there really is not a significant difference in the 55gallon drum vs. the 5 gallon pails. I will go with the 5 gallon pails to make handling easier. But I still don't know which specific fluid to buy. I'm looking at NAPA part #NHF 85905 vs. NHF 85805.
try to match your filter to this FIL 1202 NAPA measure yours to what is below Gasket I.D. (Inches) : 2.963" Gasket I.D. (mm) : 75.26 mm Gasket O.D. (Inches) : 3.431" Gasket O.D.(mm) : 87.15 mm Gasket Thickness (Inches) : .218" Gasket Thickness (mm) : 5.54 mm Height (Inches) : 7.803" Height (mm) : 198.2 mm Hydraulic Filter Style : Spin-On Transmission Filter O.D. (Inches) : 3.698" O.D. (mm) : 93.93 mm Thread Size (Inches) : 1 1/2-16 Fluid I use the 46 Hydraulic Fluid - All-Purpose Tractor, ISO 46; 5 GAL Product Line: Valvoline Oil - Regular States Part Number: VAL 770 Price: Availability: This part can only be purchased from your local NAPA Auto Parts store. Features & Benefits Blended w/ Highly Refined Napthenic Basestocks & An Additive Package That Provides Excellent Anti-Wear Protection & Inhibits Rusting & Corrosion. An Antifoamant Has Also Been Added To Suppress Foaming & Air Entrainment. Warranty No Warranty, Expressed or Implied Attributes API Ratings : ISO 46 Container Size : 5 GAL Hydraulic Fluid Application : Are Available In Three ISO Grades (32, 46 , & 68) To Satisfy The Varying Requirements Of Vane, Gear & Piston Pumps. Do Not Use These Oils In Ammonia Compressors, As Heat Transfer Oil, w/ Silver Bearings Or At Prolonged Termperatures Above 200 Deg F. Manufacturer : Valvoline Probably why I never bought 55 gallon drums $same$ I did price it years ago and I guess came to the same conclusion as you not worth it. Don't forget fuel filter. Is it glass on the side of the motor? Forgot if you had JDeere.
My hydraulic filter is BT372-MPG Baldwin I found one in my gang box I keep on the truck with all my job tools. Never went to the yard yet. Curious if it is the one I picked on NAPA let me know. Hey if you have time post the procedure for flushing a Lull System thanks john
Here is a list of filters to Lull 844 -89 maby it is the same for 644?
Fisherman, that list helped a lot! The in-tank hydraulic filter appears to be the same on the 644, so there appear to be two aftermarket filters available (from Donaldson and Baldwin). I'm going with this one: http://www.adiesel.com/baldwinfilters/PT9188.html The tranny filter appears to be the same also. So OK, today I got a chance to look over the machine some more. One of the planetaries appears to be in need of service. There is a lot of play. When we moved the forklift off the trailer and brought it to the barn, I noticed that the right rear tire always tried to steer a different direction. So today I jacked it up off the ground and noted quite a bit of wobbling when I gripped the tire with my hands and moved it side to side. Question that I really dont' want to ask: How much in terms of dollars will this cost me? Does anyone have the parts page in the manual that deals with the planetaries? Where would I go to get used planetary parts? Next question: I tried to disconnect the front carriage tilt cylinder from the carriage. There is a huge pin holding the end of the cylinder rod to the carriage. I tried to pound out this pin with a giant sledge hammer and the thing would not budge! I didn't pound too many times because I was worried about mushrooming the end of the pin. Question: How do you remove these pins? Thanks Joe Stewart
I think the problem is the wheelbearing.I had the same on mine 844.It is easy to fix,you only have to shim the bearing.It took me 3-4 hours.i put new oil-seals,bushings and o-rings for the brakepiston. I do not remember the cost for it but it is not over 100 dollar.If you have to change bearings the cost will of course rise.If you PM me your e-mail adress or fax number i will try to send the pages you need for this work.
Some times the pins bend and they are real hard to get out. They can wear and also have a ridge so you need to find that sweet spot where it is free. How about a electric chopping gun and hammer it with an old chisel on the end? Post in the general section they will have more ideas.
My guess would be kin pin cone bearing has failed. http://csapps.jlg.com/OnlineManuals...C_10K/Parts_1100820_04-24-09_ANSI_English.pdf page 34
I worked on the 644 for half the day today. Here is what I found: 1. The wobbly wheel was caused by total disintegration of the inner wheel bearing. All the needles had fallen out of the cage. I could only find two of the needles. There was lots of ground up metal in there. The previous owner had evidently removed all the brake discs because all those were gone too. There weren't any shims either. A couple of bolts were missing and two of the existing bolts were sheared (see photo). 2. My front tires (1300 x 24) are a lot shorter than my rear tires (1400 x 24). See photo. Isn't this a no-no when it comes to four wheel drive vehicles? I thought that all four tires should have the same circumference; otherwise you put strain on the differentials. Any opinions here? 3. The U-joint that services this dismantled hub is bad (one of the arms of the joint has lost all its needle bearings). 4. My frame is cracked. See photo. I'll have to put on weld on this eventually. 5. I tried to dismantle the front carriage tilt cylinder, but I do not have a tool big enough to spin the end cap on the cylinder. I tried a 36 inch pipe wrench, but it was too small. Here's my questions: 1. Any recommendations on where I could get a good deal on those wheel bearings? I could only get numbers off of the cup portion of the bearing - Both bearings are Timken. One cup is 37625. Other cup is JM822010. 2. How do you remove the bearing cone from the spindles? They are pressed on and there appears to be no way to get a pry bar underneath. Do I need to bring this to a machine shop to get it pressed off? Sorry if these are dumb questions! 3. Should I worry about my front tires being a lot smaller than the rears? 4. Does anyone know an aftermarket part number for the universal joint on the axle? 5. Speedpup, what tool did you use to spin off that end cap on the tilt cylinder? Thanks J. Stewart
Here are the photos of the cracked frame.
grove out the crack and weld it. Then grind it smooth and put a 3/8" or 1/2" angle with 4" legs. Put one leg down towards the ground and the other projecting horizontally towards the rear. If you look at later year machines that is what Lull did in later years. Look on machinerytrader,com at later model years. used the zoom feature to look closer http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6092670 I had to do it on a 1980 844 I had. I would drop the angle down 3/8" below the top and weld a good bead. Then you can always put an angle from the angle up to the piston mount between the two bolts for more support. I can sketch it if my words don't make sense. I used a large chain wrench on the cylinder end cap. Did you tap it for a while with the hammer to loosen it (patience) and some P B Blaster? Some heat may help as a last resort. You can also weld a chunk of metal on the cap's outer face and use it to tap with a decent size drill hammer. I would say you need tires that match in size to prevent it from tearing itself up. If you are missing all the brakes discs and the brake piston it will be $$$ . The spur gears around the sun gear have needle bearing and with all the ground up stuff you have they can't be in good shape either. I hate to say it but that machine needs tons of work. The seller really just hung it together to dump. There was a turn key 1995 in great shape and decent 4-5000 went for 7500 bucks. I think you could dump 500+ in parts into get the end of that axle going easy. If the brake piston is gone it's probably 250+.
OK, thanks. The brake piston is still there - haven't taken it out yet. I haven't gotten to the point where I need to start using the ballpein hammer on the end of the cylinder. I need to purchase one of these chain wrenches. Speedpup, what size chain wrench did you use? Do you have a specific brand and model number? Also, do you know how machininists remove those pressed on cone bearings, such as the one visible in the photo in the previous post? I would love to get those off so I can read the part numbers on the other side. I guess the cracked frame is the least of my worries. I will address it when the time comes. It would be great if you could diagram what you have done and send me some photos of the repaired 844 that you did. I looked at the photos on machinery trader and I think I understand the repair. I have a friend thats an expert welder and will get him on it after I get past all these other nightmares. I noticed in the assembly instructions for the hub that it never mentions greasing the wheel bearings. These bearings do take standard wheel bearing grease, don't they? I noticed that there was no grease left on the one in the photo above.
They take grease some machines had fitting look on the lube diagram to see. I can't even remember when I pulled the bearing on one it was like 1986 on the kin pins slightly different than yours.. I would just take it to a machine shop can't be much to remove. Bearing supplier can match them up with the numbers. You will need spur gear bearings also. Yes the welding is minor job compared to the others. Wheel bearing grease is good. Did get the pin out of the front cylinder? Start now tapping it and putting B P Blaster on it.I got the chain wrench from MSC. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/N2DRVSH?PACACHE=000000134168276 not sure which one I have but it is like those. some yu can add a piece of chain to. They are good but you can break them with enough pressure on the chain. You really need to pull them all and inspect each wheel as none probably had much care before you end up with another wheel like that. I had a axle end go bad in 92 or 93 on my 1044 and it cost me over 3 grand in parts and I had a friend who welded and re-machined some of the parts or it would have been 5,000+ in parts way back then. It took me 8 hours with another person just to get the planetary apart when it got all balled up like yours with pieces of metal. How is the oil in the other planataries did you drain it.
Yeah, I finally got that pin out of the front tilt cylinder. It was pretty tight and it had worn a little "offset" in the center portion of the pin, which may have been hanging up as we were trying to pound it out with a huge sledge hammer. Now what I have looks like this (see photo). I tried to loosen that little set screw with a hand held Allen wrench. It wouldn't budge and I was afraid I would strip it. I will hunt for my 3/8 inch drive allen wrenches and see if I can loosen it. I looked at the link that Speedpup gave for the chain wrenches. The largest capacity chain wrench listed is for 6 inch pipe and I believe that that particular cylinder exceeds six inches in diameter. I will have to add links to the chain? Where do you get the extra links? I'll have to measure the diameter of the cylinder this coming saturday to see how big of a chain wrench I need. Thanks for the link! I'm planning on servicing all of the hubs and planetaries and brakes. This will cost a small fortune, I know, but at least I will know what I have when I'm done! I keep telling myself that this is all "for fun"! I'm doing some research on how to best approach buying parts for the hubs and axles. The axle was made by Spicer, so an aftermarket supplier would be preferred over buying them directly from Lull? Or perhaps even buying them directly from Spicer? Is anyone aware of any axle shops that sell Spicer parts for off road axles online? Any other source appears preferable over Lull due to inflated pricing - is this rationale correct or are all the suppliers expensive when it comes to off road heavy duty axles? Right now I have my machine with one tire off and sitting on wood blocks so I'm not able to check the fluid condition in the other planetaries. This brings up the subject of lubrication of the wheel bearings. I checked my lube chart and it does not mention the wheel bearings. Is it possible that the oil for the planetaries (the gear lubricant plus friction modifier) ALSO lubricates the wheel bearings? I am uncertain as to who was responsible for allowing this machine to get into its current condition. The previous owner told me that they only owned it for three years. During that three year period, they must have performed zero maintenance, because the air filter was clogged with caked up dirt/dust, the hydraulic fluid was clogged, the hydraulic fluid contaminated with water, three (3) of the five (5) main hydraulic cylinders with moderate to severe hydraulic fluid leaks, transmission fluid critically low, popped out freeze plug and the condition of this hub as we are discussing. No wonder I got it for a good price! Any literature on the Spicer PS-1350 axles greatly appreciated! Still looking for a scanned parts manual for the 644! I have the service manual for the 644 844 and 1044 on pdf and I can email it you!
get a torch and heat the set screw. Everything expands and it crushes the rust. Then use PB Blaster during the week and let it soak. I doubt anyone is giving parts away for these things try a google search for spicer parts. post the cylinder cap removal in the general section for more input than this section. http://www.spicerparts.com/axle/off_highway.asp
http://www.amazon.com/Ratcheting-Chain-Wrench-24-In/dp/B000I1R27K
I have the same model lull you do. It was misrepresented as needing a fuel pump when I bought it at an auction sight unseen. The injection pump is bad and there is water in the engine oil, I needed this lift to erect a steel building. I have purchased another lot to build on and I need a lift to move all the junk of the land. I may bite the bullet and go purchase a newer lift as I do not have the time or shop space (yet) to overhaul this one. Mine is about the same condition as Joestewarts. I'm into mine for 4000 If you need another one for parts. We might be able to arrange some shipping as well. I have a trailer to haul it on and my dad has the truck. It would be up to him to price the freight. If not I will still watch this thread as it is very useful, You guys are great with the info. I need to go and look to see if mine has that same crack in the frame. Thanks guys
There's a used engine for $2500 and there is a remanned injection pump for $600 on the online auction. Have you determined what caused the water to enter the oil? Was the oil milky or was it raw unmixed water sitting at the bottom of the oil pan? Perhaps it was rainwater that found its way in there? - Just trying to look at all possibilities. Is there oil mixed up with the coolant in the radiator? Are you sure that the injection pump is actually bad? Have you priced out an injection pump rebuild? I had a roosa pump rebuilt for a different 4 cylinder deere engine at a local diesel shop - cost about $300. I think you could still have a fine machine for a good price. Hold onto it and work on it when time allows, if you can. I'm still working on my 644 - preparing to assemble the front tilt cylinder this weekend.
644 lull Thanks for your help Joestewart. I will probably look into this machine more personal. I have been working overseas. I purchased it online and picked it up when I was home. I will probably try to rip into her when I get my building up. Maybe I'll get lucky. My friend had a mechanic from the John Deere dealership come and look at it, and said all that was bad. I appreciate the help. Your info and part numbers will help me as well.
PM me your email address and I will send you the Lull 644 service manual, operators manual and the manual for the spicer axles. I'm still hoping someone can scan their parts manual for the 644!
It would not let me PM you so here's my email [email protected] . Thanks JoeStewart
Right rear hub/planetary - REASSEMBLED! Front tilt cylinder - REBUILT! Frame tilt cylinder - REBUILT! - but for some reason, it barely works. If I take the wooden blocks out that are holding the machine in the level position, the whole machine tilts to one side and the leveling cylinder cannot get it back up again. Next thing I'm going to do is drain the hydraulic tank and clean the pick up screen - not sure if this is the problem, but its something I have to do anyway. Someone loaned me a hydraulic pressure gauge, so I will check pressure being delivered to the frame tilt cylinder also. 644 parts manual - SCANNED! I pulled the machine out of the barn and set the boom up on top of a conex shipping container. Then I dropped the hoist cylinder down onto some tires - See photos - Need to rebuild this cylinder bad. Leaks hydraulic fluid all over the operator when boom is raised. Removed rear driveshaft, since back tires are way taller than front tires. I will somehow have to find a couple of 13.00x24 tires for the rears (there's 14.00x24's on there now).
Just happened to see this thread. Was wondering if you have any updates. Very enjoyable.
Joestewart I may be parting my lull out. Do you need any parts to get yours back together?