Ok guys here’s a good place to let your expertise shine. Have a excavator (model SK210 SN Y009U4050 2008 year of Mfg. I’m coming I late in the game on this one. It’s in the field, with originally a no-start condition. Previous “tech”, I’m liable to shoot him (legal in Texas I believe), was told there was rodent damage and needed new harness...entire. So...he commenced to rip out everything harness wise, which of course involves lots of sheet metal and tons of stuff in the cab. Don’t know the whole story, but he’s off the project. He did not complete the task of harness removal. I hate these types of jobs. My mission, should I choose to accept it, is to fix it. Preferably without spending the $10k on a harness. However, more pressing is the need to get it transported back to the shop. Obviously running it is out, and the boom, dipper, and bucket are on the ground, fully extended. And the cab is sitting about 90 degrees left. I need to curl up everything and spin the cab back to normal before trying to get it on a trailer. I don’t remember the net weight, but I’m not sure I can just lift it and set it on the trailer. Open for suggestions on how to move everything back to transport position and hopefully winch it up on the trailer. Anyone with ideas feel free to chime in. Many thanks in advance. tcw
By loosening the hoses on the rams and with the help of another excavator you can fold up the bucket, dipper and boom using chains to hold in place. To move the machine over the ground to load there are 2 methods; 1 remove the bolts from the sprocket allowing it to slip on the drive hub, 2, remove the sun gear from the planetary hub. The first method keeps everything nice,clean and waterproof. The excavator you use to fold up the boom can be used to assist in loading.
Why did the “tech” walk off the job? Did he have permission to tear the machine apart? What kind of agreement did the two of you have concerning the repair of the machine? Weight is about 25 tons.
I believe I can remove the bolts holding the swing motor and raise it and block it up, thus disengaging that gear train, then I can use my skytrack, or other digger to push it back in line. Right now I have a guy looking at just lifting it for me to back a trailer under it. Have access to a crane that will do it. IIRC it's about 50,000lbs. It's a wide load, but it's not a long move so getting permits isn't a problem, and there are no overpasses on the route to cause a problem. we can serve as our own escort. It measures a bit over 14 ft high on the ground, and I don't know the trailer deck height yet. It's not far over the standard limit. Just got back to the office and have to let my brain cool back off and some of the sweat dry off. That's loading it "crossways" on the trailer, so just need to get the bucket off the gound.
Bls, the other "tech" originally was tasked with locating the rodent damage and attempting to repair. He never actually said he verified any rodent damage, but once he found out that a new harness was available, he took it upon himself to remove the old harness. He was not systematic at all. No labels on anything. I have a cardboard box (literally) with random components and fasteners, and several access panels removed, along with all sorts of plastic molded trim pieces strewn about. And this is out in the weather. Even the hour meter was just clipped right at the push-on connectors. At least he didn't chop every connector. But he didn't mark but a few......with duct tape and a Sharpie. As far as walking away, he was told too. He did not have authorization to remove the entire OE harness. He was an employee. I did not personally give him any instructions. The owner of the machine did, so I am not privy to any details beyond what the owner is telling me. (short sideline: I am not an employee. I am a 40 year friend of the owner of this company and really just jumped in to help. I'm also semi-retired, so it's something to keep me busy, mostly mental. I do this on a floating contract consulting basis. I am in poor health with 3 bad discs in my back, degenerative disc disease, and arthritis in my back. I crushed my right hand and about half the arm a year and a half ago, resulting in an infection in my thumb that ended up causing necrosis and an amputation. Broke my right arm arm too. (Got tangled in a 36" wide conveyor belt on a McCloskey trommel), plus a few other things that slow me down. So I have my physical limits, but I am supplied with people to do the grunt work when I get worn out or just can't get it done. I try to just supply the brains, but it doesn't always work that way. So in the end, I mainly do this work because the owner is a friend and he needs the help. Otherwise, I'm retired)
Meth? The real energy drink.
Lifting slew box is a lot of work if you have a port-a-power pressurise the swing brake to disengage the brake and remove the pipes for left and right swing and you should be able to push top of machine around. It sounds like you have been left with a fine mess to fix. Ask questions and take plenty of pictures and I will try help you.
Delmer.....plainly put, I believe he was a drunk and never should have been allowed to operate the machine, much less work on it. But sometimes you run across these older guys who have a good eye for the dirt and can run circles around most operators. He was one of those, so a lot was tolerated. In this case, I think no one was keeping an eye on him and it just got out of control before anyone stopped him. We have some good mechanics, but they are super busy, so now it's a disaster and is going to cost a fortune to set right. We haven't needed it that badly. We run a couple of Cat 320's and they keep up, until recently. We run tub grinders, like HogZilla (have one of those and a couple of smaller Peterson's). Just got another going so have to have something to feed it. My trade, my career has been as a precision machinist (45 years or so), so I an very meticulous with my work. I have always worked on equipment also, anything from a watch on up. I've built up or rebuild over 150 engines including a few diesels and probably 50 auto transmissions. Machinery doesn't intimidate me. In cases of heavy equipment, I just dive in and learn as I go. Friends in the trade help, always try to have tech lit available. I may not be a speed demon, but when I fix something, it's fixed right. I don't rig or cut corners. I learn the tricks as I go. In the case of this machine, I was gently asked if I could help and would be willing. They know they are in trouble. I'm sure I can fix it, but it's going to take a while, and it isn't going to be cheap. That is, if I decide to tackle it. And Kobelco Ireland...you nailed it....it's a fine mess. I'll have an entire album on this one before it's over. The cab is stuffed full at the moment......it's just a pile of parts. A Kobelco kit, if you will. Well, not that bad, but just about. That's another reason our regular maint shop isn't going to try it. They have their hands full just keeping up with oil and filter changes and minor upkeep. They couldn't get started on this before something else would break and they'd have to pull off and get on that. At least most of that comes one thing at a time. Ironically, there is a bigger Volvo (forget the model) with grapple already mounted that was running perfectly until one day it started boiling smoke out the stack. Someone decided it needed an engine rebuild. I'm sure it will be done before this SK. I think they already have the engine out. I appreciate the interest so far, and I hope I don't inundate you all with too many questions. Thanks very much, tcw
Doesn't sound that terrible once you explain the situation. I wonder if it would work to bring in a tractor as a hydraulic power source and hook up to the valve bank with long enough hoses to move it onto a trailer? Unless the crane sounds easier. At least you have some confidence it operated before it didn't start, the real drama starts when somebody takes on a basketcase with no history, then puts the work in and THEN finds out it should have been parts to start with.
small crawler rigged for a detachable backhoe some extra hyd. fluid and hoses to reach ,plumb it up fold it up and drive it on the trailer
Right. It was a good machine until the mice got to it. It shouldn't haven't been left out in the weeds when they were done with the job at hand. We have ample storage for it along with at least a dozen other pieces on this site. I think the operator just didn't want to crawl it all the way back to the barn. We usually keep rat blocks in all the machines, but I don't recall seeing any in this one. I thought about external hydraulic power, but since this is a drive-by-wire, I wondered if it would even be possible to get it hooked up and all the solenoids to operate now that the harness is in shambles. Or would it be be possible to rig up a handful of manual valves to do the maneuvering. If that were feasible, that would be great. I personally think that all heavy equipment should have an external feed port and return line for just such a purpose. This isn't as bad as a basket case (like a flame job. Have a Volvo digger I don't even want to walk over to look at).....been there; done that....burned the tee shirt. No more of that for me. It's just disgusting to see it now compared to when I first went to look at it. It was all in one piece then. Could power up, read all the codes and all.....even the radio worked. Just wouldn't start/run. Now it looks more like a pile of parts. I may go back out tomorrow and study it a bit more. I'll take a few pics and post them if I can figure out how. Seems every forum is a little different. I think the projected move day is Saturday. There is a point of contention there too. I have a rather large building pretty much to myself. 24 foot ceiling, good solid concrete and near the dealer and all the common parts houses etc. And I would be left alone to sort it out. The other place is a newly set up maint shop with 8 guys in it who will be in my way, I'm sure. As it is, I work as I want to, when I want to. I an a direct report to the owner. The main shop has a hot shot ex Case dealer as "manager". He's new and we haven't our talk yet so that he understands my arrangement. If he could help, he would be doing this, not me. So I don't want him underfoot. Problem is to get the machine in my building (nice and shady, plenty breezy and fairly clean), I have to get it up a concrete ramp about 3 foot rise in 10 feet. Crane won't be able to just set it inside where I want it. The maint shop is all flat, but doors too small to begin with, and I'll be outside, with at best, a shop built canopy for shelter. Not ideal at all. I know, gripe, gripe, gripe. It could be out in a swamp somewhere. I'm trying not to be a primadonna about all of this, but it's largely volunteer. I won't make any money on this. So I can complain I've only been beaten by a couple of machines, but it wasn't without a fight. But if I take this one on, I think it will be close.
Tony Wells … Sounds like you need an apprentice to work with you. Schools out so perhaps someone that wants to learn. Wiring and parts as a puzzle could be fun for the right person as a summer job. Though, I would wait until the machine is in the shop. Rigging & Moving great gobs of iron is no place for a novice.
I don't remember the wiring harnesses being that expensive. 2008 machine so it should still be supported. *NOTE* I haven't worked on a Kobelco for some time now, things might have changed. If you can get your hands onto a decent manual they show how the harness's lay and such. Not a pleasant job but not the worst either. I only worked on the 300-400 series. Not sure what a 200 would be like.
Well, one of the maint guys can be assigned to me as a my apprentice, but if I know the score at the maint shop, I'd get the dregs. But you're right.....school's out, so I could probably swing an additional guy just for me. Not a bad thought. Not bad at all. And you're absolutely right. I don't want anyone "new" around with 50,000 lbs hanging on a wire. Or even if I can figure a way to freewheel it or drive it onto a trailer.....no time or place to train a rookie. It's enough watching for myself and the other journeymen. We all have to have each other's backs. That's another thing about using a crane....with the cab sideways, and the boom and all hanging off to the side, getting this thing rigged safely and balanced will be tricky enough. Looks like have until Sat to figure it out. Or I'll call time out and wait until it's safe. I'd hate to get someone killed.
Wrench, I have the service manual, and have been going over it. Not really that bad, taken a section at a time. There might be some back tracking, but I think it's all there. I didn't get the harness quote myself, so tomorrow I'll see about that. $10k seems a bit high, and the machine is only an'08 model....surely that's not quite right. And surely still fully supported. That's just not that old. I get along with the service manager at the dealer pretty well, so I may have a sit-down with him about this. There are a lot of parts I'll be buying, and if I strike a deal to get them from him I may do all right. tcw
Apprentice . + Sorcerer (you) Watch out for Mickey ...
Yup, that would be me..I'll have a fan and soft chair. Of course, I'll have to keep the manual in my lap so when I close my eyes I can say I was committing it to memory. I'll have to make sure I have fresh batteries in my magic wand.....and some spares..
I know it’s a pain but you may have legal recourse if repair cost get excessive.
Bls, if you mean going after the guy with the wire cutters, that probably wouldn't get far. I'm sure he's without assets worth going for, and I'm sure there was nothing written as far as any contract on what he was to do or not. And I've known the owner for about 40 years (which is really the main reason I'm involved with any of this anyway). There simply aren't many independents around to hire in, and the dealers are, for the most part, unreliable. So the multiple companies this guy owns (I won't reveal his name, per request) end up either limping by with the help that is available or caving in to the dealers when there is no time or we just can't find anyone. Like I said, I'm not officially a heavy mechanic, but I am getting there the hard way. I'm not afraid to tackle most anything. I'll admit having second thoughts on this Kobelco, though. I'm just a guy the owner trusts, and I have had a lot of varied experience that has left me a pretty handy guy to have around. I know a lot about some things, something about a lot of things, and a great deal about a few things. He's a very well off, highly respectable man in the community. He's been good to me when I had tough times, so there is a loyalty factor. He's never taken advantage to be and lets me operate as a separate entity from all his companies. I report directly to him, and only him. I do a great many different, unrelated things for him. He trusts me. He left this Kobelco up to me. If I don't want to, or think I shouldn't tax my back I can just let it go by.....then I don't know who would be working on it. But he is leaving it up to me, totally. We did discuss moving it to my shop instead of the maintenance shop and he was agreeable. As long as it's reasonable, he will heed my advice ( that's really how I draw my pay, as a consultant, even if I do work a bit). So currently the plan has changed from yesterday, which involved a third party crane and moving the machine with everything out of position. That's something I will post separately. It will be moved to my shop.
OK....questions about moving this machine. Ok.....to take the sprockets out of service, simply removed the cover opposite the drive motor(s) and take all the bolts out that mate the sprocket to the rest of the workings of the drive motor and everything. I have looked through the manual briefly, and the details aren't there. I supposed that's because a trained monkey could do that. There is a cover (round) as the very outside component covering the drive mechanism. The actual motor is "inboard", so won't be touched. Question: Once the cover bolts are removed, will this be full of oil or anything? Right now it is all covered in dried mud (AKA dirt), so I can't see how it's constructed. Will this expose any part of the drive that will be at risk moving around in the open, like bearings, seals, etc. At a glance per the manual, the sprocket bolts directly to the housing, so it doesn't appear to affect any other parts or pose a risk of dirt ingress. Assuming no key to also remove, this seems straightforward enough, unless there is a hidden brake somewhere that needs to be defeated in order to freewheel and be movable with a winch to get it on the trainer. Just disconnect the sprocket from the drive by unbolting it and letting it freewheel. Right or Wrong? Next, the swing motor. It was suggested to simply unbolt it and raise it up to disengage it from the rest of the swing gearing. That actually doesn't sound like a bad approach, unless that disturbs a gasket and opens a gearbox. The manual shows the output of the swing motor itself as a simple, splined shaft. Sounds like that would create an opening for dirt to get in. Not needing or wanting to rebuild that box. Someone mentioned using a Port-a-Power to disengage the swing brake. The book shows a plugged port off (Identified in the manual as "PG") on the swing motor itself for swing brake release. Since a PaP was suggested to disengage it, that sounds like the swing brake has a default condition of "brake on", so is it as simple as connecting a PaP to that port and energizing it? Or is there another port I should use? The swing brake seems to be internal to the swing motor, so no hope of a direct connection to disengage it or bleed it off it's that style. I guess what I'm trying to ask is does the swing brake stay locked until the swing motor is energized, and is there a bleed off involved to defeat an external pressure source so that the brake cannot be released without the main hydraulic supply. Is that the correct port and is there another that should be plugged for this? So once the swing brake is disengaged, the machine top end will be free to rotate? On the boom, dipper, etc, disconnecting the hose and capturing the fluid I understand and can do. Many thanks, tcw
You should be able to get the harness in sections, engine and pump harness can be got separate to cab harness. Last time I got engine and pump harness for a 2006 210 it was around 2000 euros
There will be oil inside that cover only a few litres. When cover is off remove the small gear at the centre and the drive will free wheel. Refit the cover to keep inside of drive clean when moving
I intended to stop by the dealer and go over what I'm up against but time got away from me and I was already headed home before I remembered. Guess that's on tomorrow's agenda. I doesn't surprise me that there are several "pieces" to the harness. It's too complex a machine to have it all in one. Back when this all started, you could read the codes, and one I remember in particular was something cooling related. Not a temp fault, but seems like a fluid level fault....so naturally I checked on the coolant level and found it acceptable. Then the information of rodent damage entered the picture. Rumor only, but it's all I had to go on. In this case, I'm thinking I should replace all the sections unless I can physically see them, end to end, and check continuity in addition to checking for potential rodent damage. Cab harness is trashed, between the 4 legged rats and the 2 legged ones. It will be replaced. I just hope it runs when I reconstruct the wiring. No telling what else has been chewed.
When removing cover, will entire outer gear housing come off with. Some of the finals I've serviced are like that. When removing sun gear, it will have a little rotational tension...push/pull machine to lose tension...remember, it will ROLL away freely once the sun gear is removed. Use caution and common sense.
At least this sitting on level ground, sunk just a bit from being there 3 years or so. Not too likely to run away from me, but I'll secure it anyway. Just good practice. Thanks for the reminder.
ON most excavators the bolts the that attach the sprocket to the hub are accessible from the out outside ( not to be confused with the bolts that attach the outer cover of the planetary hub) though I have seen some go the other way. If its possible remove the outer ring of bolts as I suggested earlier which are a little further inboard than the outer ring of bolts you may see.
It's caked in dirt at the moment, so I'll have to clean it up to see which way it goes on this one. It would be best if I didn't have to open a gasketed joint. Although, the left side is leaking somewhere already so I will have to tear it down eventually. Looks to be mostly on the inside though. Thanks Tones tcw
That's it out in the weeds, on location. I had it pressure washed today in the area of the sprocket retaining bolts, so getting ready to start on this one. I'm still puzzling on releasing the brake on the swing motor. I have a Skytrak and a heavy gin-pole truck to reposition the boom, dipper and bucket, so I'm thinking that I'll just need to break a few hoses and catch the hydraulic oil in buckets, then strap or chain everything in position. If possible I'm going to try to keep the oil clean, but if that isn't practical, I'll catch it, and dispose of it. Even if I remove the feed and return lines from the swing motor, although it will be messy, I still can't spin it because of the brake, is that correct? By default, the brake is active by means of springs, sort of like a trailer, if I understand right. If I can attach a couple of pictures, could someone point out which port to pressure up to release the swing motor brake? Or if more or different/better pics are needed, let me know. I'll be happy to provide what I can. Click the pic to enlarge. Many thanks, tcw
The small pipe that goes into motor through the 45 degree fitting is the swing brake release. Apply no more that 50 bar pressure
It took me a while to spot that connection hidden under those other lines. Must be getting old.....!! 50bar in Christian Units is about 750psi. I'd suggest to simply pump the pressure up slowly with a hand Portapower while at the same time gently pulling sideways on the bucket and quit pumping as soon as the upper frame starts to move.
Thanks nige for posting the picture with arrow, I tried and gave up lol
Thank you, Nige and Kobelco ireland. I thought about labeling all of then 1.2.3....etc and just letting you guys just tell me which number but there were too many of them and I'd probably have missed the very one needed. I had planned on using a portapower. Glad you gave me some guidelines for pressure. My plan was to just apply enough to allow movement anyway, but that gives me a no-go point and a target. It appears that this will get started sometime this coming week. I apologize for the sideways pictures. I didn't realize it was turned. (please try to remember I'm the new guy here, but I'll catch on) That begs a question to mind....with the swing motor being engaged (presumably) won't the control solenoids be closed in that circuit? And doesn't that mean I will need to remove the main lines to it? That's going to be a little messy, but there shouldn't be that much oil captive in the motor I would say. But if I can hose away from it with some spare hose into a bucket maybe not so messy. Planning on a couple of helpers on hand for this anyway. Many thanks, tcw Think I might video this, from about 50 feet away....might be good for a future laugh.
Most slew motors free wheel without a break. Thats why they fit breaks.
I was hoping for that, but never gutted one of these so wasn't sure how it was going to behave once the brake was released. It would be much easier on things without worrying about dealing with loose hydraulic lines and a mess of oil pushed out of the motor. It looks like I'm setting up to learn a lot about Kobelco excavators on this one. Never had to deal with moving a dead excavator before of any make, so this should prove educational. So far, the brute force crane lift is sounding more like a bad idea. And still have to deal with the extended boom, etc. It's available if all else fails, but I've been described as "tenacious" (aka stubborn) when approaching a problem, so I'm sticking with rigging it onto our own trailer as long as I can before moving a crane at lease once out to where this machine is just to drive under it and set it down. Almost sounds like cheating. I haven't looked at the breakdown of the associated gearbox, but if it's a worm gear arrangement, won't that present a problem? In my experience, worm drives don't like to run "backwards". In fact, some are specifically designed to make that near impossible. I'd hate to break something this. If so, I might be able to cobble together a portable hydraulic power unit large enough to spin the upper frame. In fact, I have an electric one, although it's not anything crazy hp. I think maybe 10. But with no extra load, that should do it, on level ground, I'd think, once the brake is released. I'll have a generator on hand if I need it. Have to round up some adapters and some hosing, but that's doable. Thanks for easing my mind, Tones. tcw
It ain't worm drive. It's a variable displacement, reversible, hydraulic motor, sitting on a planetary gearbox. The brake is usually in between.
yep, if the machine is level, after you release the brakes, you can usually just lean on the bucket and turn the machine by hand
That simplifies things considerably. I couldn't see any reason for it to be a worm drive. Plenty of room for a planetary gearbox under it. One of the guys who may/may not be very involved in this overall project suggested pulling the motor completely off, or at least lifting it up and blocking it to disengage the splined shaft. Had I thought about that I probably would have realized it was not a worm drive. But, I worked in the heat and humidity today so my brain isn't clicking. Sorry for sidetracking things. Forget the worm drive. Thanks for getting my thinking back on track, mccall. tcw
Mitch, that's good to know. It appears to be fairly level, but I'll be onboard with the Portapower and make sure the helpers know that it should be freewheeling at that point. I plan on getting the boom, etc all buckled up before I attempt to get the upper frame to move. it will be strapped to something to control it, in any case. Thanks, tcw
The slew motor in that machine won't freewheel after you release the brake. You will have to remove the two feed pipes that are located just above the pipe for releasing the slew brake. It will only loose a half litre of oil even when you push it around
Would backing off the cross port relief valves on the motor allow it to swing?
Yes it would but in this situation I think it would just be easier to remove the pipes and catch the small bit of oil rather that causing more confusion talking about adjusting Cross port relief valves etc. I am just trying to keep it simply for him
I have no plans at this time, and don't know of any need to service the slew/swing (whichever term is preferable) motor, so if I can avoid needless complications such as adjustment procedures I'd rather just pull the hoses off the solenoid valves and use a bucket to catch the oil. Obviously you have the choice of telling me how you personally would approach something, how The Book says do something, or something else. And rest assured, if I don't understand, I'll ask for clarification. I've learned to be cautious in unknown waters. I appreciate the effort to keep it simple, but no need to overdo it. Although I've not been working on heavy equipment forever like some of you guys, or gone through tech schools specifically for that, I'm an accomplished mechanic in general. And I have been working on them a few years for a couple of companies. It's just that I am a very thorough thinker, so when I run across something unusual, or new to me...I will ask questions. And I am a (semi-retired) professional machinist-45 years or so, so that makes me meticulous and I understand technical things and I've yet to find a machine I could not understand or come to understand, even if I do have to ask a few questions. At least I generally know when to stop and ask them. But I realize you guys have no idea of my background and experience, what I know or don't know, what my abilities are, etc. So I would rather you simplify things if that makes you more comfortable rather than take a chance that I may not understand some instruction or procedure and damage the equipment or endanger myself or others. That's an easy choice. Plus I'm from an oilfield background, so my skin is thick. You're not going to hurt it.
Guys, hang in there with me. I had to pull off this Kobelco to bring another couple of machines back online. I haven't abandoned it by any means. My help did get the power washing done for me and it does appear that the sprocket is held solely by bolts to the hub. I'll keep posting progress when I get back to it. Probably next week it will be the hottest thing on the list again. Until someone else breaks something.
We all know that feeling.