The lower engine has been rebuilt. Injectors have been rebuilt and replaced. Dozer will only crank with starting fluid and as soon as you quit the starting fluid it dies. Injector pump is getting fuel. When the engine is turning over, fuel is coming from the injector line. Any suggestions?
D65E -6 is fitted with Cummins engine?? PT fuel system, can you post a picture of the engine. tctractors
Should be yes... NH220 I think?
Yair . . . Most fuel problems I had with these revolved around the float tank attached to the left hand frame low down under the seat. The fuel flows from the main tank to the float tank and then is lifted by the pump . . . any pin holes/air leaks in that hard tube and hose could allow some fuel though but not enough to run. Most problems were that bloody float valve sticking open and overnight draining the main tank through the vent. Cheers.
I know it maybe just trading one problem spot for another, but has anyone tried replacing that float tank with a solenoid valve to stop fuel when engine is not running? I suppose in a perfect world you could just use a simple ball valve that the operator shuts off at the end of the shift. Like the fuel valve on my old Sportster!
Yair . . . kshansen. From memory the tractors had a gate valve to the outlet but on one it was jammed open and of course the one time the operator forgot to turn off the one that works was the time it chose to **** itself. In my ignorance I deleted the float tank altogether on the power-shift machine. It solved the problem and it ran perfectly for about four years until we had an engine rebuild by a Cummins trained fitter. He was horrified as he reckoned no head pressure was acceptable to the pump . . . they had to lift . . . which was the purpose of the tank. I pointed out the engine had done about three thousand hours in the tankless configuration and he just reckoned we'd been "lucky" and would offer no warranty on the rebuild unless the tank was reinstated. I seem to recall fitting one of those engines in a little Gulf trawler and have no recollection of any day tank in the bilges. I would be most interested in any comments from Cummins guys if there are any of them still around . . . very difficult to get parts or anyone who knows much about that engine over here. Cheers.
i fought that tank for several years my manual didnt show it. never used the loader for more than 2-3 hours at a time. when it pitched a fit one mite get 30 minutes. finally quit. tracing fuel lines found it. had 2 pieces of o-ring under the needle seat stopped it completely. cleared it and now it has more power in 2nd gear than it ever had in low. D75S-3 had more power than i ever needed even with low fuel supply
I always try and work my way backwards .... was it running before the bottom was rebuilt... is it timing issue.. what colour smoke is it pushing out white blue or black. As you have said you are getting fuel to the injectors
Hi Scrub Puller Unsure if your allowed to communicate member to member via this forum. Am based in southern NSW and have a D65-6 and would be interested in picking your brains re same . I'm a firm believer in not arguing with years of experience! Clod kicker
Yair . . . G,day Clod kicker, I don't have a lot of brains to pick and have never been able to make the private message thing work. That said I really probably would not be a lot of help any way as my experience with these tractors is limited to just two machines and perhaps five thousand hours over about seven or eight years after I retired. They were a good machine and apart from the float tank issue pretty much trouble free. If you have any particular issues it may be best to start another thread out of courtesy to the original poster on this one. Cheers.
Thanks Scrub Puller. Won't bother you again. Machine is in a 1000 pieces at present - engine out rebuild! Had it not been for a recent major down turn in the dairy industry it would probably have been back together. Have been pushing up scrub,blackberries and fallen timber in hilly country with a good stick rake. On the day in question I had checked all oils at 8am, working on a pretty steep bit of country at 3pm engine started to die. Cut it back to idle. Short time later engine stopped - grabbed a bearing. A contributing factor was a bad leak at front timing gear cover. NH220 is at a highly respected engine rebuild shop. Did have to source a timing cover from QLD, but apart from that everything is to hand. Whilt engine is out am inclined to service float tank and replace any tied Hyd. hoses. Am old enough to remember old D9s,joined together, rumbling around between Clermont and Charters Towers chasing brumbies out. Cheers.
Yair. . . Gotcha Clod kicker. It's no bother, I just didn't want you thinking I know a lot about them. I think those tractors were leaders in their class. I found them very sure footed in the step stuff and a pleasure to run. Despite their age, well worth putting some money into provided you have work at a reasonable rate. Cheers.
I once rebuilt a V12 28 litre Cummins on a standby generator and serviced it for about 3 years, the set ran like a clock with its own fuel supply tank sat under it that was flow controlled, a new "Farm Mechanic" was taken on that thought it best to hook up the engine fuel line direct to a 28'000 gallon fuel tank, on start up the engine sort of ripped it's self to bits with me getting the call to come and look at the engine??? as soon as I turned up the "Rich" (Money Rotten) as they come owner with the Farm Billy swarm around me pointing at bits scattered about the floor, I did say that the engine had ran for 3 years perfectly clicking up 950 hrs of run time (Stand-By) and the fact that the fuel feed pipe had been modified that had caused mayhem, with the suggestion to seek out the the person who had changed the fuel feed line?? The Komatsu built Cummins in the D65 is an easy motor to work on and is NOT set to the standard Cummins engine data, it has single spring valves and 60" lbs set on injectors (I think? its been a few years) I do have every detail on these chariots. tctractors
Lots of great stuff here but the original poster has never responded?
Would I be right to think that the engine had hydro-statically locked up from fuel gravity feeding into the cylinders? Had to do the math on the 28 litres, that was what we Yanks call a 1710 as in cubic inches. Only thing I didn't like about them was someone decided that the "Left Bank" was on the right side of the engine! No big deal unless you were working late on night a bit tired and start to do the valve and injectors setting and forget! I know keep your eyes open as the blocks are marked "LB" and "RB", hey it was a dirty machine and a dim lite shop!
Or is the issue the gravity pressure on the inlet causing overfuel?
kshansen, the 1710 changed into the VTA? 28 with a revised firing order, compression (Piston top ring hight), including the twist over exhaust manifolds, that is half of left bank hooked to half of right bank through the turbo's to give a more balanced engine, I have rebuilt about 6 or 8 of these engines and think of them as 2 14 litre engines stuck together, they have to self seek the fuel from a lower point than the injectors or lower than the PT fuel pump is best, if being fed from a head of fuel the injectors leak fuel into the cylinders resulting in a bit of work to put things good, the engine I spoke of in my earlier post was pulling fuel from a 40 gallon control tank mounted into the base of the Set, sadly the Farm Billy and Mr Money Bags hooked this engine up with a direct feed into the engine fuel system from a high set massive fuel tank, this generator was fitted with 2 block heaters and like all generators kicks up to full lick instantly the A.M.F. control is tripped, Mr Money Bags thought I was going to put his smashed to bits engine back to run for now't, he looked sick as a Dog when I pointed out the fuel feed modification that he had instigated. tctractors
Thank you to everyone who responded. I appreciate your help. To answer a few questions... the color of the smoke is sometimes white and sometimes black. We have been told a by a couple of people that it might be an injector/engine timing problem. Does anyone know how to go about getting the timing correct? Thanks again everyone for all of your information!
Mmmmm rito, I just got home from the pub so bare with me . Never seen a Komatsu with a cummins ( truck mechanic ) cut my teeth on pt setups big cam, small cam, 555, vt190, 903 etc. nh 220? Guessing this is a big or small cam 855 na? Float tank= no idea what this is? A pt setup will happily pull fuel straight from the tank, Gravity feed= no problem either, a fuel shutoff solinoid won't yeild at 250psi let alone gravity. If this has been rebuilt and won't fire I'll almost bet $$$ that who ever did the set had no idea what they were doing. A big cam can have at least 3 different types of injectors, all set different. Top stop,non top,stc, etc etc. was the cam or acc drive removed? If it's pumping fuel, I'd say if half the pushrods arnt bent your lucky and get someone that knows what they are doing to set the injectors and valves. If the cam has not been removed the timing will not have changed, just need to have the injectors set properly and your good to go. Lil more info on the setup would be handy.
http://www.komatsu.com/CompanyInfo/press/2010021615571219248.html
Well I do know the NT380 engines we had in the old M-30 Mack had a "Float Tank" on the side of the frame. Those trucks had the fuel tank mounted across the frame behind the cab. The float tank is very similar to the tank on the back of a toilet. Fuel flows under gravity to inlet to the tank and a valve with a float connected to it operates just like the toilet, when fuel gets to a set point the float lifts up and shuts off the flow of fuel. There is a breather, at least on ours, like you might see on a rear axle to allow air in or out of the tank. Maybe someone else can say why this set up was used unless it is just a "safety feature" to protect the engine in the event the fuel shut off solenoid did fail or if someone stalled the engine and failed to turn off the key. The other possibility is if the engine was equipped with mechanical shut off valve, yes they do exist, there is one sitting on the shelf were I worked. Someone could kill the engine using it and then push the shut down cable back in and effectively leave the valve open for days.
Oh! forgot to mention we have had a Komatsu WA600 where I worked since 1996 with a KT 19 Cummins so yes they do use Cummins engines in some Komatsu machines. Okay had to do a little digging on Google and found this that at least gives some explanation of the need for "Float Tanks":
my D75S has a cummins in made in japan under license from cummins. been a while since i looked at it but know it has a float tank. like to drove me crazy till i found it my manual didnt show it. i think it is listed as 12000 cc engine. will try to look tomorrow to be sure.
Hi all, sober this time :/. Yeah have seen cummins in Komatsu loaders etc, what I should of said is that I have never seen one of these ie wasn't sure what engine it was exactly. Ok float tank setup I have never seen, makes sense to stop fuel coming back through the return line or if it has a manual shutdown. Seen plenty of river pumps and line drive bore pumps with massive overhead fuel tanks but never a float tank fitted. All these engines had electric shut down solinoids and most likely a check valve in the return line, they never give any trouble that I've seen or heard of. Nh220 is an engine I have seen a few times but very little experience with, it's a pt setup anyway so same difference. I'll still say that if its pumping plenty of fuel to the injectors and won't run something is wrong with the set. I'd suggest pulling the covers and eyeball the top for bent or loose pushrods bar the engine over and have a good look at what's going on as a starting point. Most people don't have a very good understanding of how a pt system realy works which causes lots of problems, ever tried doing a set when the acc drive isn't timed?, makes it interesting lol. Another example a injector can be set at 60"lbs or 6"lbs depends what method you are using. I know of a "mechanic" that tried to adjust the injectors on a vt190 to 60 ft lbs, he kept breaking his flat screwdriver bits trying to get to 60
Yair . . . Thanks for that kshansen. Would my understanding be correct in assuming the unit injectors in the Cummins system can stop on the cam in such a position that fuel can leak into the cylinder . . . is that essentially the difference between Cummins and "normal" injection engines? Cheers.
Cummins and Komatsu had a joint venture going, maybe still I don't know, Komatsu built engines to Cummins design under license, and vice versa I heard with some of the BIG Komatsu diesels made here by Cummins, but I can't swear to that.
Hey scrub puller yes that is correct. I wrote a long explanation and my iPad froze and I lost it and couldn't be bothered to re write it. I will if your interested? Ps, not trying to sound smart but a pt injector isn't a unit injector. Something like a 71,92 Gm has is what a unit injector is.
my hat is of to you guys-gals that know how to tune these diesel engines properly. always thought i was a decent auto tech for 40 years or so but i take a back seat to what i read on this website
Yair . . . . Gotcha Neily. thanks for the heads up. Showing my ignorance. Never did have much to do with Cummins and never understood their fuel system and assumed the injectors were operated by a cam similar to Detroit two strokes. Any information you can post would be of interest to me. Cheers.
Well if you have about ten minutes there is a pretty good YouTube video on the PT system here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzuwdxEJfQA
Yair . . . Gotcha kshansen. thanks for the link. Cheers.
One like this, TC? https://greenville.craigslist.org/hvo/5665047375.html
Shimmy, that looks about the same engine, they fitted this Cummins into the Komatsu 475 dozer, also into the big heavy haul road trucks 1710=VTA 28. tctractors p.s. I have rebuilt a 50 litre Cummins that had a plate attached to the engine stating 3 peoples names that built it, I so wanted to put my own plate on it "Re-Built by a Donkey"
Hi! It's been a while since we have done anything with this Dozer. It's a 1979 Komatsu d65e-6. I really appreciate everyone who originally posted on this thread trying to help. With the help of a mechanic we did manage to get the Dozer cranked. Had to install new injectors and new push rods (which a previous mechanic damaged by tightening them up too much). So, it cranks but now it has no power. It will crank and run but it will not turn and if you drop the blade there is NO power... at all. Any suggestions?
The injectors on the Cummins fitted to the Komatsu are set to a lower torque setting than the standard engine found in general, it also has the 4 valve head but with single springs,they often fail when the tractor has been stood some time, if the torque set on the injectors is to high it will be hard to start and weak power, to low and all you get is Gun Smoke, the fuel inlet and outlet lines can be fitted incorrectly. tctractors.
tctractors, thank you for you reply!