All you guys out there that own your own excavating company do you rent/own a shop or do you keep your equipment at your house on your own lot? Which would be better? Would the lot have to be zoned commercial/industrial or would it even matter if you lived out in the country? The reason I ask is cause im looking to buy some land next year to put a house on and maybe some heavy equipment too.
Well the saying out of sight out of mind comes into play in the country. I own my own shop, but I think if you live in the country it's kind of accepted that you park equipment there.
We own our own shop about 3 miles from our house. It is zoned commercial. If you live in the country i would just park your stuff there our build a shop on your property.
I share a yard with my stone supplier. It works well cause there is plenty of room and he gets to use my machines to keep the yard tidy.....and has a stonemason selling blocks out of his yard. We share costs although his father owns the yard. It still bring the small truck and tools trailer home. Its a lot better than having all my work crap around the house.
As one who had zoning problems in the past,check first to see if having a ''contractor's yard'' is a permitted use of the land.Mine wasn't and I fought it and lost in court.Now,I'm in the right zoning.
I live in the country and zoned rural. So I can pretty much do as I see fit. It really will all depend on the zoning of said property. If you buy in a residental zone you wont be allowed (at least here) to have your shop/equipment. Make sure you check your zoning laws before you buy property, also make sure you check the zoning in the town you buy in before you buy. I have known people that couldn't keep commercail vehicals in there yard, in the country, because of zoning laws specific to that town.
Thanks for the replies. The lot im looking at right now is 23 acres zoned residential/agricultural. So I dont know if they would allow equipment on that lot or not, I dont see why they wouldnt.
The agricultral will allow for equipment I would imagine. For the simple fact not many use mules anymore. Take a trip to the town hall talk with selectman and you'll know for sure. But I dont think they'll be a problem.
Agricultural zoning is not excavating, so technically you can't but all depends on other land owners, noise etc. If no one complains not a problem, if some one does get a good lawyer and plant trees, firewood, landscape supply all that is agricultural, then the town would have to prove that the equipment you have parked on the property is not for agricultural use. I would also see what is around you that could be considered close to what you are doing. Any other people parking equipment on the property around you already? The point here is that if the town wants you to move your stuff than any others around would have to move their stuff. Because you are agricultural it will be much harder for town to stop you and a lot better than residential. The town can give you the zoning specifics in writing; in my case I had my attorney get them for me. I also had my attorney talk to zoning board before I bought property; as a matter of fact I put zoning approval as a contingency of my purchase. If you buy the land and it is zoned wrong they can ask you to stop. I do not have any signs on property stating what I do just because I don’t want to give anybody any reason to complain. Be a good neighbor and you should be fine.
Like tunet445 I have also been there done that. Got kicked off my res. lot because of a neighbor didn't like looking into my yard ad seeing equipment. Had to invest in a commercial lot that cost me close to $500,000.00 In all it was one of the best moves I have ever done because the commercial lot is now worth over $1 million. You can always ask the zoneing dept for a variance. What ever you do get it in writing. Do not assume anything it could get expencive.
Wasn't saying it is. But being ag you can have any peice of equipment on it you want. Now maybe he can't build a shop right at road with big signs on it. But he can keep anything he wants there. Another thing about ag up in Keene there was this piece of property that they want to build, but it is wetland. So what they did was clear it get zoned ag hay it for three years now they can build.:beatsme
Code: The agricultral will allow for equipment I would imagine You didn't say it but you implied it. If it is zoned agriculture doesn't allow you to park anything on it you want. The equipment has to be agriculture and being used for agriculture. If you were going by the letter of the law. I believe that it is a gray area and can be fought easily. He should be "OK" but like Dwan said, get all the info up front first.
If your area is anything like mine most farmers have an excavator, dozer, dump trucks, lowboy, backhoe, etc anyway, so they must be ag machines. If I didn't know better I would say that the farmers here are in competition with the contractors. The diffrence only comes when its regulation time - they don't have to put up with comercial trucking regulations, bonding, insurance, etc because they are "Farmers". Never mind if they are digging a basement, that's "Farm use" isn't it? Sorry to get off topic, but if there are plenty of farmers that bend the comercial rules, so why not bend the Ag rules? If anyone says your equipment is not ag equipment, buy an old farm tractor & plow, park it out front and then you are a farmer. Now that excavator sitting over there is just what you use to keep the fence row clean.
Your right But that is also why I said to get the zoning laws for not only the state but for the town where property is.
I have a shop rented zoned Ag but most of my earthmoving equipment could be and sometimes is used for ag land improvement, now if I had pavers and curb & gutter machines it probably would'nt fly, so it kind of depends on what type of equipment you have.
I think everybody is looking at this a little backwards. I think the problem lies within the fact that he has no Agricultural product being produced with his land, be it cows, chickens, corn, hay or whatever. That's the argument you're going to come up against if anyone files a complaint and you use the excuse of "Hey, its zoned Agricultural". The type of equipment really doesn't matter but the fact that you're not producing something does, even if you're zoned Agricultural. That's not to say that just because a property is zoned Agricultural, that you have to produce something with it. That's not the point I'm making. Yes, its zoned Agricultural so you can put whatever equipment you want on the property and claim it for Farm Use.....but if anyone asks what you're doing with it, how are you to explain that with nothing to show for it. Around here there are some farmers with some of the same type of equipment as our overburden contractor here at the quarry. There's another guy who changes equipment like he changes clothes...and we're talking big stuff like Cat 365's and such. What they do with it I don't know, really don't care, but I do know that they are producing a staple with their land. I have a problem with this statement. Atleast have a better reason than "everybody else does it". That doesn't really make a very good defense with the Zoning Board...
Countryboy, thats what I was talking about; Code: The equipment has to be agriculture and being used for agriculture. You could do something with the land, hay or xmas trees and that would help. The letter of the law is the land is being used for ag. I ran into this when I bought my place and my attoney said that I should plant xmas trees and don't put a excavating sign up. Also your neighbors are key, if they don't complain you should be "OK" but if someone makes a stink than you would have to prove that you are using land for ag and not something else. All that being said, everywere you look guys have heavy equipment parked but most of these guys are farmers. To be considered ag you need at least 5 acrea's of land, so if lot is smaller than 5 it would be residential no matter what is on it. Just went thru all this 8 months ago. Have not planted xmas trees yet but am ready to do so if needed.
I know . "Everybody" wasn't the word I was looking to use. Sometimes the fingers have a mind of their own . Another good point. Most local Boards like this do not usually act unless a formal complaint is made or the violation is extremely obvious, main reason being a lack of "manpower". If a complaint is accepted, then you have the burden of proof. If all your ducks are in a row, the proof should be fairly obvious and easily attained. So Jmac, that raises the question of whether HEF members get discounts on your Xmas trees...
Now this isn't nessisarilly true. I have 4.75 acers and it it zoned rurual. Not res, not ag, rural. Which means I can can set up shop. Or have house like I do. Or what have you. We can debate this all day, and his best bet is still to go to zoning board and find out exactly what he can and cant do.
I just bought 320 acres of farmland, just starting my company, and i plan on keeping all my equipment out there, and building my shop out there. Im about 20 minutes from the city though, so no one would really raise a stink about having equipment out there.
But that has a downside to it too--If he goes to the zoning board, unless he can keep his inquiry in very general terms, and aviod answering any direct questions, they'll know what he intends to do. If his use is prohibited, now his risk becomes whether both the zoning people and the neighbors are willing to look the other way. (Which, in the more rural areas, they probably are, but it's still a risk to be considered...)
My attorney went to the code guy and did exactly that, very general terms, no locations, no names etc just to get the feel for what his position was. His position was as long is he has no complaints and you don't store large pipe on site should be fine. PSDF350 says he is zoned rural so that could be completely different from ag. I don't know, we don't have any rural zoning around here. Preppypyro, bought 320 acres so this is a big chunk of land (congrats) so he could be set so far back from the road that no one could see his stuff anyways. I do know of a guy that ran a trucking company out his land zoned ag and he had a big fight in court and lost, different town and county, so it can happen.
Thanks for all the info. There are some big farms nearby and some houses too. The lot im looking at is a half a mile off of a state route, so its not like I will be driving dumptrucks around back roads and pissing people off. Do you guys think if I put my building back about 1000' id be alright? Im not putting it on top of the road or anything because thats where my house would be. Should I look into a bigger lot if im looking to put it on ag land? I know it all depends on what the zoning board says. Now that I think about it there is a small excavating company about 5 miles from the lot im looking at that has his building and house right by the road with a sign and im pretty sure that that land is ag or residential cause there are houses all around him. I doubt that im gonna have real big equipment. Probably the biggest equipment would be a 320-325 excavator, a d5 or d6, a tri axle dump or two, and a semi and lowboy, no 385s or anything like that.
I bought 11 acres 4 miles from where I grew up. There is no zoning so I cleared the fields in front and built my garage behind and slightly downhill from the house. That allows me to keep the front yard clear of equipment and the machinery is low enough that most of it is not visible from the road. Technically, I should or may have to go before the planning board at some point and argue that it is a "Home Occupation" which is exempt from review by the planning board. Either way, if you keep it neat, "hide" the equipment so it's not blatant or an eyesore for someone to cry about, you may be ok anyway.
"everyone else is doing it", "if no one complains you should be ok", "Do something to disguise it as a ag. business", "Keep it out of site so no one knows", "It is easer to ask for forgiveness then ask for permission", None of these will help if Zoning decides to fine you for braking the law. I know I have been there Go down to your Zoning office and ask if it is ok or if there is a way to get a conditional use permit to operate what you want. and get your answer in writing. That is the only way to do it correctly. If they will not allow your operation in that zoned area, then you have just saved a lot of money by knowing before you buy that chunk of land. By the way ever zoning ordinance in every county in every state is different. Everyones answer here may be correct for there area but could be different in your area. You may be able to get an answer on the phone. If it is what you want have them e-mail it to you or fax it to so you have it to fall back on.
Almost exactly what I was going to say.A few zoning officers have told me,unless it's really a blatant offense,they will only hassle you when they start getting complaints and then if you're not zoned right,that's when you will have trouble.A classic explanation by this 1 excavator by me years ago to build his new shop:''I'm going to be storing iron horses.''--Yes,he built it.
We also have ag plus res, rec, indudtriual along with rual. Heck probably a few I dont know. Thats why I said basically what Dwan said below.
What county in Ohio do you live in? Here in Carroll county, we have no zoning whatsoever outside of the towns. Also in Stark county, next store, many of the more rural townships also have no zoning. Do some checking, it may not even be an issue for you.
I live in Summit but im looking to buy in Portage county.