I have been considering the purchase of a compact dozer such as a Komatsu D21p-8 (apx 9000#) for general purpose ranch work. Clearing saplings, spreading dirt drainage work etc. It was suggested to me today that I might want to consider a CTL with a dozer attatchment. While this would be much more universal I have no experience with a CTL. Any comments would be appreciated.
If you go with the CTL just keep the bucket on. About the only thing the dozer blades are good for is pushing snow. I had one on a 1845C Case cleaning spilled dirt off a new bike trail I had just topsoiled beside when I hit an expansion joint and bent the frame. Didn't think an 1845 had enough power to hurt it, but they aren't built all that heavy. A CTL is much handier,especially with a bucket, but if you want to doze, stick with the dozer.
We checked on a dozer blade for are Takeuchi, it was a six way blade. It cost quit a bit because they had to run more hydro lines for the added movement. It was a very stout unit, and people we have talked to said they work great. I have talked to a few people that said that they never use there small dozers now that they have a ctl. You just have to remember that steel tracks on a dozer will take more abuse as far as being ripped up.
A CTL with a blade is useless, just not enough weight on the front to make it work, just like any 7-12 ton class dozer. A bucket equipped CTL will out work any CTL with a blade.
Seen people use them they work great, you have to have a bigger CTL not a small one. I dont know if there worth the money though.
I've seen a T300 Bobcat go at one on loose gravel, what a joke, I could have moved more with my T190 and a tilt-tach on a 72" bucket. A small dozer is nice too, but you can't load trucks or dig a trench with one.
Watched a guy backfill a basement with clay with a T300 with blade I was pretty impressed. Last time I checked in to A tilt-tach, they only wanted you to use them on the smaller machines, that was a few years ago maybe they changed
I had a Gehl CLT80 same machine as the Takeuchi TL150. Great machine, lots of power. It will move more dirt than you would expect from a small machine. There is one problem. The rubber tracks do not last. I went through a set in 900 hours, and spent close to $5000 for new tracks sprockets, shipping, and the helper to install the tracks. I will not buy another one of these loaders until it is made with a steel undercarriage. Then put rubber blocks on the steel tracks if you want to. RT
No contest. A dozer that small wont take much more abuse than a well engineered CTL. Think of what the dozer can do that the loader cant,now imagine being able to carry and lift material, not to mention attachments. Its possible all you need is a dozer, but the TCL is far more versitle in that size equipment catagory.
I had a little time yesterday and called a contact that has extensive first hand experience with CTL"s. He informed me he would stay clear of the CTL's until the next generation undercarriages are out and have a proven track record. After examining several tracked machines it is my openion a kindergarden engineer could design a more durable system. Someone will do it and leave everyone else behind. As I try to stay away from the "fine" China and buy domestic I must say the commies are coming! So the big boys had better look out of the box and get competitive. Look what the Japanese did to Detroit! I think I will follow the advice from my friend and wait on the CTL. I will continue my search for the KomatsuD21P
Stay safe and happy pushing.
Have you considered a Rayco they have a real (steel) undercarriage on them could be worth a look. Here's a link to their site http://www.raycomfg.com/crawlers.htm I think there is someone on this site that operates them they might be able to give you some more info on what they're like, wouldn't mind finding out more myself. Hope this helps, Josh.
Quite the machine, only 121 inches of lift height though, a Bobcat T190 or Takeuchi TL140 can match that, but at least the tracks will out last the 1000 hour mark.
The Raycos are a good machine, but I think there made more for the woods.
It looks like the small Komatsu D21P may still be my best option. I visited the Rayco website. Their 140 looks like a beast! But it is for forrest work.
You can get tracks and sprockets for about 2500, half that price. If you are using the Bar style tracks you will get less life then the D pattern. I would suggest using the D pattern you get a little less traction but you make it up in life of the track.
You should be looking around 5000 for a dozer blade and everythinng you need to hook it up. Takeuchi is the way to go. TL150 has more traction force then a D3 Dozer. But it does weigh about 3000 lbs less. I have used the dozer on the TL150 after you get used to how it works it does a great job. It would not recommend a blade on any other machine. The do not have the traction force the Takeuchi has or the undercarriage with more even weight disbursement. Most weight is to the back of the machine on other Brands.
I respectfully disagree with you Ohio. Takeuchi's weight distribution is as bad or worse than any of the other rubber track loaders. It was one of my main selling points when I sold Bobcats. ASV put a video out for their SR80 and while the Takeuchi machine was the TL140 (the video was a 80hp comparison) the Takeuchi was shown to have the worst weight distribution front to rear than the other rigid framed machines even though it is built from the ground up. The geometry of the Takeuchi machines is set up to have great breakout forces which they do but their ROCs aren't any better than other comparable machines that weigh even less. The SR80 even had a better draw bar pull and it was significantly lighter. There is no doubt that the TL150 has a lot of hp but having run both the D3 and the TL150 it is apples to oranges. The D3 weighs in at around 16K lbs and would be far superior to pushing than the TL150. I have demoed the ASV RC100 and it is more closely matched to the TL150 than the D3.
Yeah, there is no way in hell any skid steer in the 9000 lbs class can come close to a 90 hp, 16,000 pound dozer with a 10 foot wide blade, I have run a T190 for 5 years and a D-4 on the side and nothing can touch a dozer.
The TL150 is 10,900lbs with no bucket. The bradco 8ft dozer blade weighs 2,000lbs that is 13,000lbs total weight. It has drawbar pull of 13,770lbs the TL140 has 10,900lbs which is more than the D3 and any other CTL including ASV. I am not saying replace your dozer with a TL150 but it does make a versatile option. The machine has a better weight distrubition for digging and pushing. Not for lifting that is why the Tipping load is less on the Takeuchi then most other CTL in the same class. They have a more even disbursement. Not as much weight on the back thus the lower tipping load.
If I remember correctly, the TL140 only "actually" pulled about 6800lbs even though it was heavier than the SR80 which I think actually 7400-7600lbs. The rear weight distribution of the Takeuchi machines is far far worse than most of the other machines. If you ever get a chance to see the video that ASV made you will see exactly what I mean. i used to tell potential customers to try driving both the T250/T300 up a hill and then do the same thing with the TL150 and the TL150 would always fall back on its butt well before the Bobcat because I'm willing to bet that almost 75-80% of its weight in in the rear of the machine. Order the video from ASV and you'll see what I'm saying. By the way I think that Takeuchi makes a better machine than Bobcat even though I sold them. I just think you have some facts mixed up.
Tell me how a machine can pull more than it weighs if it hase no steel grousers to penetrate the ground for pulling power? The rubber tracks on the current rigid mounted machines are designed with the C-lug to give them a smooth ride as the primary purpose, not to maximize traction. Takeuchi has/had an agressive lug pattern but the ride would beat you to death.
I appreciate everyones advice and comments. It is obvious a CTL has the engine in back which offers a counter weight when the machine has a work load. Therefore, even with a heavy dozer blade on it cutting pressure will be minimal compared to a dozer. For my needs I still think a Komatsu D21 may be the ticket. I plan to take a good look at one that another member has. If it works out I will try to find a good used machine.
I agree as well. I have had Takeuchi's for over 8 years before every manufacture had CTL's. http://www.takeuchi-us.com/TL140.html and http://www.takeuchi-us.com/TL150.html . If most of the weight on the takeuchi was on the back of the machine it would have a greater tipping load.
I'm telling you most of the weight IS on the back of the machine ! Part of the reason for the average tipping load is due to the loader geometry(designed for good breakout-look at the length of the booms compared to the others-lift a 45lb plate up to your chin with your arms close to your chest and then lift the same plate up to chin with your arms extended-the weight is the same but it's harder with your arms extended) not the weight distribution. By the way I appreciate the exchange of information between us and your patience. I am not trying to bash you.
Same here I like to exchange ideas and info. Thanks
OhioTakeuchi you sound like someone I know.LOL
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums MikeS! :drinkup