I had a customer call me yesterday and asked me to quote a new hydraulic pump for this machine. Not knowing what was going on, I asked why. They had called the dealer out last week and the tech said their "last chance filter" had failed. He asked me if I knew what that was........I replied that maybe he was talking about the return filters in the hydraulic tank. The machine hydraulics had gotten slow according to the operator which was why they had the dealer come out. The operator said that although the hydraulics seemed better, the machine still seems weak on some functions (boom up/down/ tracking, bucket) The tech then specified that their pump was weak and that is why he was requesting a replacement pump quote. Im calling the dealer today to get an idea of what they did and what was diagnosed. I went by and ran the machine yesterday for about 20 minutes (not at operating temp) and the only thing I noticed was that the boom did seem slower than what I would call normal. Since I am not an operator and not knowing this particular machine well, I'm asking you Komatsu gurus if you have any cycle times that I can compare on this machine to start with. This doesn't seem to be a pump problem in the sense or power, but moreso in flow. I will post my discussion with the dealer when I get in this evening . Hopefully a bit more information from them will supply more clues! Machine SN# A86059
Good luck.
Are you reaching 400 kg with digging functions? Can you curl, crowd, boom up and swing simultaneously?
I am getting a rash of calls from old customers getting the same types of gloom and doom. I doubt your phone call with the dealer will get you any actionable information. First item is to check for codes on the box and clear them before any other troubleshooting is done. I use the boom up cycle time the most after checking pressures, making sure the engine fuel and air intake systems are clean and making sure the machine is able to travel in a straight line. If all that stuff is good I'll check for brass in the tank and any kind of metal in the return filters. Anything under five seconds on boom up is good and the pumps can be adjusted to pick up some speed. If you get that far, then the dealer wrench is either ignorant or worse.
John C has a YouTube, inspection guidelines. Might be helpful. Does power boost work?
Somebody's post reply button is quicker than mine
Well, the dealer tech never called me back today. I’ll take a picture tomorrow and show you guys what’s on the monitor.
Its difficult to do much on this machine with this issue.......... This is with the machine running. ^^^^^
You still got gauges and a stopwatch donchya? Hitting the display with a ballpiene just cuz you don't wanna fix it, poor sportsmanship
The owner doesn't respect their machine enough to get a replacement monitor, they probably don't want it fixed "the right way" anyhow.
I’m working them for a replacement. I just told them I couldn’t do much without getting it into service/diagnostics mode.
I've had to say that many times. More than a couple of times I've tried to explain we are in a new world now and nothing can be done until the monitor panel is replaced. Good on you for stating the obvious to your customer.
Hi all, Long year ago, when I had been talking about "DIAGNOSTIC TOOLS" for excavator with HITACHI technician, they said that HITACHI had supplied a tool for diagnostic (Dr.EX... Palm type). I laughed and said: "The KOBELCO or KOMATSU excavators don't need any tools because I can get information right on the machine screen". Is it right?? Later, in fact, I realized that HITACHI idea was right. The technicians should have their own diagnostic tool. As in this case, if it's a HITACHI excavator then we won't be confused by the broken screen. We can use MPDr to check even the screen of the device has been damaged.
I suppose the Hitachi people hand those tools our for nothing, right
Of course they do!
I have a new monitor coming and should be here in a few days. Does anyone remember the service mode code? It seems like you hold the down arrow and hit 1234 but I don’t remember for sure.
Press and hold ⬆️ while pressing 123
LOL. I knew it was something like that. My mind is showing it’s age now days. Thank you sir!!
Yer still a pup
The new monitor is installed. Went to service mode and it's in Japanese. LOL just my luck. Does anyone know if this can be converted to English? Or will I need an interpreter.
But the rest is in English????
The screen looked like normal but service mode and everything else was in Japanese. I figured out by translation through google. I have it all in English now.
Now I got to convert my results to psi. All hydraulic readings are in mpa
Multiply by 145.
You can do that in the display as well. Switch values from SI to non-SI that will bring you to psi, F* and gpm
Ok, here we go with some results. In reference to LANCHAU's pics Engine low idle 765 rpm, High idle 1825 rpm, Engine hydraulic stall 1704 rpm. Performed in A mode. Cycle times.......... Pic 1 Boom raise 8.55 sec. Boom lower 2.55 sec. Pic 2 Arm in 4.14 sec. Arm out 4.54 sec. Pic 3 Bucket in 3.38 sec. Bucket out 3.34 sec. Pic 4 Boom down at low idle 2.95 Sec. Pressures at stall (HIGH IDLE) Boom raised Front pump 36 MPA Rear pump 36 MPA Boom lowered Front pump 19 MPA Rear pump 19 MPA Arm in.... Front pump 36 MPA, Rear pump 36 MPA Arm out Front pump 34.1 MPA, Rear pump 36.2 MPA Bucket in Front pump 341. MPA, Rear pump 36.2 MPA I have attached pictures of the abnormality screens in electrical and mechanical.
OK, what do you want me to check next? This is sooooooo fun!!
Cycle time on boom up is slow. Speed sensor is the likely problem. Check the damper case between the engine and pump for being over full with oil. The level check plug is on the face of the damper case underneath the pump. It will be a 17 MM or 11/16 socket to remove it. Damper case is likely to be over full and the paint on the case might have changed color. You can check the speed sensor with an ohm meter. Should a little resistance at the harness connector and nothing between the outside metal of the sensor and the harness connector leads. Wiper code won't stop anything but the wiper. I don't know what the model selection abnormality is. Good luck!
Well 36 MPa is 5200 psi. Pump sounds strong. Arm in on Komatsu is both pumps , so I'm told. Did you catch the boost pressure on arm in? Did you get a pressure rise or an RPM increase? That BU time is horrible. I'm thinking that the flow comp is out of adjustment. Not taking enough off the engine.
Will do that John. Thanks for your input.
Explain boost pressure on arm in. I have zero info on this machine so I am not familiar with the term. I know the boost button on top of the left joystick seemed to make no difference in action or engine rpm.
I take it you guys feel that the Komatsu tech was wrong in his diagnosis of a weak pump? I figured as much after running this machine today. The boom speed up is definitely slow but the rest of the functions seem quick and strong. Is the pressure reading for the boom down normal at 19 mpa ?
Well I don't know about 19 mph , 19MPa seems a bit light. That's only 2700 psi for boom down. Not much digging force there. This isn't a long front machine is it? I'm guessing not and you have a weak or flattened safety relief, or a bad cylinder bypass.
Another thing, and I know that you know that I preach this a lot. Track speed. Track speed . Track speed. A mode, full throttle , med travel speed. Paint a pad , full stroke, start timing when pad passes a fixed point. Time 5 revs. That will tell us if you are getting full stroke at the pump.
It’s not a long front. I thought that seemed light myself on the pressure. A cylinder could be a possibility!
And yes, left joystick button is hydraulic boost. The only time it should NOT make a difference is in lifting or crane mode
I will get this checked tomorrow and post the results.
Can you define the modes for me? Would it be wise to clear the codes (if that can be done by me in the monitor) and see if anything pops up later?
Lachau posted cycle time and specs. As well as standard values. Track speed is in standard values.
Dammit, I forgot to say that the machine boom stops when trying to run boom, arm, bucket, and swing at the same time. The other 3 will work together. Been a long week
If the code is inactive, you can clear. When you are in service mode, reading electric faults, enter the same sequence to get in service. Follow the prompts. You cannot clear mechanical faults.
How do I tell what is an active or inactive code?
Just keeps looking like insufficient flow. Priority valves are running out of oil to maintain function. In regards to JohnCs suggestion. 2 sensor on flywheel housing. One on face of housing one on perimeter. For the pump controller, your concerned with the perimeter one pointing at the flywheel ring gear. For the Engine controller, your concerned with the face one pointing at the crank side of the flywheel. The one is very important for full pump utilization.
They'll clear or they won't Something different with how they're displayed. I just don't remember.
Dont tellme your mind is going too! I'll check all this stuff over the weekend and report back. I'm so overwhelmed with work I can't even see light at the end of the tunnel . Thanks for your expertise and direction!
Bwahaha, expertise, OMFG ROFLMFBO.
Well, I got tied up on a paving machine today and never got back to this machine. I'm beat from a rough week so Im going to enjoy a few cold ones and forget about this until Monday. You guys have a great weekend!
pantywaste!!
If they are active fault codes the monitor will display "USER CODE" every time you turn on machine.
Alot of rain here the last few days so I just got back to this today. Track speeds........ Low 55.72 Sec. Medium 39.44 Sec. High 36.38 Sec. It looks as if these times are faster than spec. It was way to muddy on site for me to perform the other travel specs today. It still looks like a boom issue and not overall hydraulics with the exception of the mid range speed and the high speed being almost the same.. Would you fellas deduct the same?
Looks like flow is not an issue if your speed is correct, now I'd be focusing on horsepower draw down and this little relief on the side bottom of the MCV . It controls safety for arm in, boom up and maybe arm out, not sure. I gotta look it up and show you the correct one. Man, where's JohnC he's forgotten more than I've learned about these darn things.
Well you are the #2 guy!!!
Who you calling a piece of poop?
whichever is easy to do first, in the order that is checked.
This is BOOM hydraulic circuit of PC300-7L.
Then you should display "SERVICE MENU"....." 01 MONITORING" in real-time operation to check some Items as below.
Did you get the speed sensor code to clear on the monitor panel? One of the ways the pumps are controlled to limit the load on the engine is through monitoring the engine speed. As I recall the design specs limit the engine speed drop to 150 RPM or less. It works so smoothly that most mediocre operators can't feel it. The only know that it takes longer for something to happen. That function only kicks in when the hydraulic system reaches max flow and somewhere around half the rated pressure on the system. Boom up is two pump flow with about half the rated pressure in order to make the cycle time. Cycle times on either track is only one pump at a time and little pressure but it is likely why the high speed travel is nearly the same as the medium speed travel. Also check the level of the oil in the damper case. That being full is a drag that also will get hot and burn out the speed sensor.
Update* I was asked to do an evaluation on this machine right after my last post. Sure wish JohnC was here for that but that's beside the point. After looking at all the issues (needs complete undercarriage, Rotek bearing seal is missing about 48" and hanging out, hydraulic issues with boom, some pins and bushings, etc......) the customer has determined that it is time to get rid of this machine rather than spend money on repairs. Thanks for all the help though. This machine was not taken care of for a long time and it shows greatly.
Dodged a bullet. You'd have been married to that turd for a long time.
I always have mixed feelings about someone getting rid of a machine instead of fixing it. Sometimes I think it is lost revenue. Other times, they didn't send it far enough away!
Vetech63, reading all of your posts tells me you did just fine on the inspection and evaluation of the machine. The fact that they are sending it on tells me you provided the kind of due diligence to allow them to make a cost effective decision. Put another way, you did good, bro.
Customer: Well you’ve had a good chance to look it over. What do you suggest as a course of action going forward.? Vetech: I’m gonna take steps. Customer: Whaddya mean take steps.? Vetech: Big ones in the opposite direction.
I just spit coffee all over my dashboard, laptop and seat. Thanks Nige.