Is have any of you guys had a late model truck that got totaled? Like say you had a 2020 with under 40000 miles on it that got totaled, how would insurance handle something like that? I have heard that they will pay fair market value but also many horror stories where people don't even get enough to cover what they owe on them. This is all hypothetical of course and many times policy dependent.
All depends on your policy, and insurance company. Some are great, some are awful. Local contractor here had a brand spanking new 2021 Western Star 4900 crashed it's first week out. Driver rolled it on its side with 21 tons of gravel in the box. Wrecked the box, and twisted the heck out of the frame and cab. From what I heard from the dealer he got replacement cost for it, and immediately bought a brand new one.
It really depends on the fine print in your insurance policy and state regulations on said policy.
That's what I'm wondering because replacement cost for a new long logger setup is over $300k right now.
Yeah- with the prices truckshop was talking for the new stuff his boss was buying, a insurance company giving out a check for what you paid for it new a year ago, isn't nearly going to cover a new truck. For me, my insurance company has me list a value for all of the cranes, trucks, trailers and equipment. It gets updated every year. I'm sure if someone pulls out in front of one of the guys, and I have something get totalled, my value that I give them, is going to have a bearing on what my check is. I have kind of upped the value on my older semi, trucks and trailers every year the last couple years, just because I have two pre 2000's trucks. With what prices have just done in the last year, replacing either one has really gone up. But if I up the insurance values, it just costs me more $$, that I may never see. What used to be a $15,000 truck, it now seems they are suddenly $25,000+ trucks, and in some peoples wild ideas, they are $50,000 trucks. Truckshop posted that their last new trucks were like 180,000, and he thought they could get $230,000 for them. So do you insure them at 230 or 180?
I paid 250 and 270 for each of my new longloggers and I could sell either one of them for 300 to 315 right now
Had an '18 sierra 2500 with 85k miles totalled last year. Paid $39k for it new. Got $38k to replace it.
Look in the insurance contract at the declarations page. There should be something that says "what we will pay." They will give one of two definitions. Fair Market Value and then define it or Replacement Cost New less depreciation and they will sort of define that. Most contracts on business insurance will be Replacement Cost New less depreciation. They will take the cost of a new asset and assign a life cycle to it, say seven years or a number of miles. These are just for example only. It works kind of like straight line depreciation that your accountant uses. If you use a seven year depreciation, you need to figure what the asset will be worth at the end of seven years. You will reduce your purchase price by that amount and then divide that amount by seven. You reduce the adjusted purchase price by that for the first year's depreciation. I don't recall off hand how the rest of the formula works but I have it somewhere here. I've seen some arbitrary percentage factors involved as well. Logging stuff is seen as a hard use so the depreciation factors may take that into account. I've known it to be true that an asset might sell for more than what was paid for the item. The problem is that in insurance, there aren't supposed to be any winners. If you have an insurance company that you have been dealing with for many years and are footing a big bill each year, they will be pretty accommodating on the first accident. Probably cover the loss with a replacement except for the deductible. It's when you have multiple accidents or your asset is three or more years old that things can get dicey. You might also ask your agent if they hire independent insurance adjusters to handle claims. Those guys usually get paid for limiting payouts on claims. Hope this helps.
Great info!
Whatever they pay, I think the only assurance is they are going to screw you over. Had pickup stolen last spring and tools, the truck value I got was pretty decent, it was the tools, slip tank, etc that they screw you on. Most tools were 25-50% of new cost, even if only 1-2 years old. $1000 slip tank and pump got like $200.
Insurance companies tend not to insure blue sky.
Stated amount endorsement if I remember correctly.
1975 Pete below sold new $35,000. A paint job and some interior work done and asking $30,000. It sold for $30,000. Is it worth $30,000?
It sure is! Let me know who I need to wire the money to! Paint the next one green will ya?
I used an inflation calculator to figure what $35,000 is worth now and it came up with $182,903. Is that what a new truck costs now? You could also check the markets for 1975 Peterbilt trucks to confirm. What are thirty year old trucks going for now. Basement prices on runners where the engines would start and the tires held air used to be ten to fifteen thousand.
Geez Hallback, I thought you had a wrecked truck on your hands based on the title, interesting discussion though.
See--that's just the problem. People willing to open their wallets to anything. It's not mine and I don't do paint work-
Yes-and a lot more depending.
Get your wallet out-and dump some more into it. It has aluminum rails but that doesn't matter new steel rails are cheap. https://bend.craigslist.org/hvo/d/bend-73-kw-924/7434927762.html
On another group/forum I visit this 1977 VIT A model is posted for $30,000. Needs a complete interior/full of mouse crap. Bad electrical, A model Cat, the truck is shot all the way around/ would take another $100,000 plus to make it presentable. And he has people biting at it. One area that also is driving the older used truck market is toy/show trucks. On that same group five rigs mainly KW/Petes have been gobbled up in just the last 4 days. Old 351/359/ W900A's are bringing stupid money. It's the I want one of those Too/Me Too things.
Can't get frame rails right now, I called PG Adams they are working remote, not sure what that means, had to leave a message, but 2 weeks later no return call.
Sure you can--HW Metals Portland Ore. Better price Too. They can form continuous up to 60'x 5/8" grade 80 or 100. You punch the holes.
What are they all going to be worth when Tier 0 and Tier 1 engines are either prohibited or no parts are available?
I'm glad you brought that up John, because some think it either won't/can't happen. But what will put a end to them is when the supply of used rebuildable blocks dry up. With the demand right now Cummins and Cat Blocks and heads are being used up at a much faster rate. A block that hasn't already been run to the limit on machine work is getting hard to find. When the big push for glider kits hit 10 years ago complete engine cores had a standing offer before those even hit the salvage yards. Finding a useable Series 60 14L block is getting tough, most have had the counter bores cut twice already, same with Cummins and Cat. A friend was looking for a head for his rubber band Cat Challenger {ex cat mechanic} zero heads in the system for his old challenger. Plus Cummins no longer supports any Big Cam engines and it won't be long and support for the N14 will slow to a crawl. To deck, cut counter bores and machine for lower press fit liners is $2,600 at B&G Machine Seattle.
Would they ship across the country? New Hampshire is the "Live Free or Die" State, and we take it somewhat seriously, guessing we will be the last ones to require Tier # Emissions. Every state around us has legalized Marihuana, Not gonna happen here any time soon.
Just to enforce my point about running old stuff. This engine I just built and sold is going in a 1978 K100 Kenworth cab over that was bought site unseen for a gross amount of money. Plus it didn't even run. By the time he gets done with this truck, paint, engine, trans, rear ends, tires, exhaust, wheels, interior plus redoing the electrical system and all hoses with radiator-$140,000. My engine with freight is $18,000.
The Insurance company still hasn't decided if this truck of ours with a 150,000 on it 2021 will be totaled or not, going on two months plus now.
I don't know why they wouldn't.
Is that not obscenely cheap?
There are several foundries now making small block and big block GM V8 engines from scratch basically. I wonder if there is not enough demand out there for engines that run and keep running that they could not tool up for Cummins blocks and heads. Wonder what the ratio of working truckers to hot rod car guys is. But I know a lot of these big blocks go into generators and alternative fuel vehicles as well.
Would there be patent or such protections that would keep a company from making "CAT" 3406 blocks, 12.7 detroit, or "Cummins" 855 blocks?
No, if so Dart & Brodix would be fukt.
Not anymore. Most patents are only good for 20 years. I'm sure the lack profit potential of producing old technology blocks/castings with limited demand stops foundries more than anything. Also, those old design blocks dont meet tier 4 emissions, all they could do is make castings labeled for repair of existing engines. I love the idea of an independent foundry making castings for old school engines, tractors, equipment, etc to keep them around as a viable alternative to brand new. But molds are damned expensive to make and need to produce a lot of castings to justify the cost of making the molds. Along with every other part of the process.
New Big Cam heads can be bought-and those are made in China. $1,000 bucks a copy with freight. Then your pushing the price of a single Cat Head. Plus those old engines are push rod not OHC and have many more wear points. Can't get the fuel mileage out of those old designs that can be had with low rpm computer controlled engines of today. No I doubled my money. If you want to sell it has to be priced to sell.
China is darn good at copying other people's work, but so are American companies. When I worked for Cat at the Tech Center in 2007, they were dissecting competitors CTL undercarriages and systematically measuring them with a CMM machine. Then they were generating 3D models to play with in a modeling software and running various tests on, trying to see whose undercarriage was better. Their ultimate goal was to take the best bits and create the best CTL undercarriage for their future machines. I don't doubt for a second that their competitors were doing the same thing. As for cloning old blocks, it could be done, but someone would have a hard time making money at it compared to running current model production parts.
I would think there would be money in C15 3406E blocks, there was a mad dash around here when a local dealer was building gliders, guys were pulling Cat engines out and selling them to the dealer. The way new engines have been for the last 15years, seems to be driving these prices up. I have a friend locally who has Ventilated Cummins iISX engines on pallets and random trucks with C15 donors ready to replace them around the yard.
The Chinese geared up with later machining capabilities. Some of the machine work is better than ours.
Manufacturing new old engine designs is prohibited by federal law. As each new Tier rating came on line, it shut off the supply of replacement engines and required that they be destroyed. Anyone can built an old NTC 855 block and make an engine out of it. They just can't sell and or run it on the highways. Maybe China can cast up a couple of thousand blocks and export them to this country but that would be shut off at the ports when word got out. And the people who would report them are the OEMs. The current situation is by design.
Correct.
I was thinking block as service part. Block too worn out, at rebuild time, replace with new block. Transfer everything else over after refurbishing. How is that any different than replacing a head or crankshaft?
Because the engine serial number is tied/stamped in the block not the heads or crank. The block is considered the key component any engine is based on.
Back to the insurance end of this thread. On my end of the business most insurance companies for common carriers, insurers like { Great Western} you can get great coverage but there many hoops to constantly jump through. When insured with those types your records of maintenance have to be spot on and services done on time. They will show up and audit random pieces of equipment any time. It's about keeping your rate at a low level.
Because US law says so. The manufacturers are required to knock a hole in the block so that is cannot be reused. I looked up the law at one time and posted it on here, but I can't find it right now.
Eaton Corp destroys transmission cases that have the 1 1/4 NPT fill plugs to get them out of circulation. Which entails basically any gear case made from 1995 down.
Incorrect. Dart, Brodix, Speedmaster, CN, Donovan, ect all make pre emissions blocks & sell them. The block and cylinder head has nothing to do with the emission system, it's all in the aftertreatment.
That's true, but they get around that by it being aftermarket {High Performance}. 90% of those engines wouldn't fall under emission requirements, special use.
Correct but if someone was interested in casting a replacement 3406E block they could get around that by leaving the stamping pad unmarked and the final user stamp the block with their numbers
That's true but it falls in the dead zone of commercial use, not personal.
Why would Eaton care about getting older cases out of circulation?
But as long as you repower a vehicle with the same model year engine or newer you are OK
As long as your not a vehicle manufacture or business selling vehicles
Because Eaton does not want to continue supporting/inventorying parts for transmissions that are 25 years and older. Besides those cases have tons of miles on them and need machine work . Eaton wants to sell new stuff not old. Plus most orders are for AMT gear boxes the last five years, the orders for manual transmissions has fallen in the ditch.
If it had any care at all it would sell at 35 to 40K here.
We all know anything the was built before can be done so again. In addition to the cost this one will also come with a risk factor.
OOOH unregistered ,no serial numbered Ghost engines anyone with a drill can build in their home garage. I can see the greenies heads explode. Bob
You left out the chisel-boB-lol
Henry Ford did it, so did the Davidson Brothers and William Harley. Hard to Imagine doing such a thing today. The Feds would ground you to a hault, or kill your bank account. I guess that is exactly what Elon Musk did with Tesla. Some Excavators had the C-15, and was for off road use.
There were also several designs for automatic apple peeler back then too.
If someone is willing to pay that much, it's worth it, regardless of what others anyone's opinion is. Spend $250k on a new truck that is likely going to be a POS, or have to spend a bunch of money taking off emissions to make it reliable, or buy a older truck that will still have problems, but that anyone can fix that doesn't require going to the dealer. The guys running huge miles on them you have to buy new, or do what some do and rebuild the old trucks completely, best of both worlds a new truck (believe the only thing they save is the frame) but no emissions. But for many who don't use them a lot, the older truck is a way better buy. I am into my 92 Western Star close to $30k it's paid for itself in the 2 1/2 years i've owned it and given me virtually no problems. Just had yearly inspection done, few minor things under $1000 in repairs. Got oil analysis done on it to, and was really good. I also know I could sell the truck tomorrow for what i'm into it, no depreciation like the new ones(taking out the crazy last 2 years), or interest financing it, or extra money running full coverage.
AFAIK there is No SN directly stamped on the BXS I own, the Processor says it is a 6NZ. That second BXS Block I have has a PAINED Number on the Rear Main boss of the block but again NO Stamped Numbers.
All the talk of rebuilding old trucks is great but they still do not drive as well as a new truck and they are still old trucks. If somebody is working them every day that is not a good option.
Agreed. If one is depending on trucks to make a living 8 hours a day, 5-7 days a week, an old truck "rebuilt" is nostalgic but not feasible. Since I don't run trucks to make a living I can't comment on the profitability side with the cost of new trucks VS what the rates are. However we do run heavy equipment day in and day out in order to put food on the table. When a production machine you need to produce daily starts to age, get hours on the clock and the break downs happen frequently it's one of two choices - semi-retire it as a backup machine or sell and buy new(er) one. There becomes a time when wrenching on equipment is more expensive than a payment for a construction company as you have to decide whether you want to be in the dirt moving business or equipment repair business. Just my $.035 adjusted for massive inflation, YMMV.
I am rebuilding this old 05 W900 but not for active full duty, Just for my uses. Could I put it back to work, likely but also likely won’t. Have a ton of hours in it, all the money so far is parts I buy so the investment is in hard materials and the loss is hands on time. I do get frustrated working on what should be small issues that expand exponentially to surrounding parts but is typical of a machine ignored for a longer period of time after being abused.
It's the fatigue on cab and frame. Wiring harness for old truck not going to happen, parts for heater/ac not going to happen, just to name a few. If your making a living with a truck 80% of it is about fuel mileage. Plus insurance companies for carriers don't like insuring old fleets.
Not a big truck, but years ago I had a new (6 week old) van hit hard in the side cargo door. I was caught in a mini traffic jam. I was turning left off a city street two lanes each direction + turn lane. Side road was very narrow & curbs went all the way to the travelled lane of Main Street. A large straight box truck was coming out of the side road, he needed a clear Main street. A rusty Toyota came from the gas station other side of Main Street, and came face to face with the truck. Until he got out of the way, the truck couldn't move, neither could I. I couldn't see through the truck. Kid in a Mazda RX7 thought he was Tom Cruise. When the light turned green he accelerated hard toward this blockage in the road. The truck moved out of the side road as I entered. Kid in the sports car had no lane, so he swerved into the side road. My van was wrinkled all the way across the floor & roof. Wheelbase was shorter on right than left. In 1990 dollars, damage was estimated at $10,000. Insurance paid $9500. New van cost an additional $7000. out of pocket.
How Old are we talking is to old to run commercially?
If you're running a truck over 10 years old daily, You are not maximizing your profitability.
Some are pushing Older than 2007 models to get away from ELD, and fully Tier Four equipment. Some are even trying to recover earlier machines where I am seeing Late 90s COEs in service hauling grain here that have been fully rebuilt ground up by owners. Several owner operators here have been pressing me to get the 05 W900 I have completed and for sale as so many are Interested and at a price I would enjoy, but is not why I have been rebuilding it.
There was a reason COE's became extinct and not just because of bridge laws being changed. It's a turd to work on, every time cab is hoisted everything inside has to be removed or through the windshield it goes, poor vision, climbing up and down, crappy shift linkage, cooling system repair, noise and terrible ride. You can make a real nice dump truck out of one though, great in rough terrain. We have a owner operator who parks in the yard running a 1986 T600, he spends his days in the cab and weekends under the hood.
I guess it all comes down to what you want to do, myself I like to work for a higher profit margin per hour.
If you're gonna run an older truck be sure to insure it for replacement value. In 2010, my 1990 LTL9000 was in a minor accident (hood, bumper, and steering knuckle). Had a fresh, warmed over, big cam 400, wet lines, and a pusher axle. Insurance wanted to total it. Argued for months. Finally, they paid $3500 out to us for repairs. It was either that or let get totalled for $6000. The bug sticking point was the discontinued steering knuckle. Someone still has it on the road today. Nice, strong runner, but handicapped by the Nuway air suspension.
I've never heard of a commercial truck or any piece of equipment being insured for "replacement value." All I've ever seen was replacement cost less depreciation of fair market value. You can get a collector car insured for "Agreed Value" by a couple of insurance companies. That comes with restrictions. What year was the accident?
Let me rephrase...not "replacement value", but rather a "declared value".
When I went to school for adjusters that term was a described as a con job. The agent would have you "Declare" that value, put it in the policy and the insured didn't read the declarations page. In the section called what we will pay, it said "Fair Market Value" or "Replacement Value Less Depreciation." In short, you cannot insure your commercial asset for what you paid for it and then be able to use it.
I think in most cases---forced to do. And some is self inflicted.
110%
For Insurance The Term ACV comes to mind, however is there are other items they list as a certain percentage of the value of the truck, if you have a work tool on the back of the truck, their should be some more conversation about truck value. I updated my dump truck in case I needed to put a hired driver in it. Some drivers will jump ship for a nicer driving experience. I was excited the 03 I bought had cupholders and AC.
ACV = Actual Cash Value. You will find that in the definitions page of your policy. Usually defined at FMV or Fair Market Value and/or Replacement Cost less Depreciation.
I sure dont' care for a cabover either, I have yet to drive a cabover that I thought "this is nice". I absolutely do not understand the current popularity of them in the guys restoring, and making daily haulers out of them. I like a hood out front of whatever I'm driving. But I don't understand the super long wheelbase trend either. As far as the "how old is too old", I think if you are wanting to lease on to haul freight for other people, they aren't hiring trucks much over 5 years old. They don't want their freight on the side of the road hooked on to your broken down old truck. I think your ability to fix whatever may be wrong with a truck, determines how old of a truck you can own. I don't drive any of my stuff all day, everyday, so I can get by with late 90's early 2000's trucks. They don't have the emissions of the later trucks, don't (or at least didn't) cost as much to purchase, and yet they are pretty reliable trucks and do what I need them to do. Would I prefer new trucks? Sure, if someone else is buying. I can't justify the cost of a new truck for the work that I do everyday. I'm not really a trucking outfit, I just need a couple different trucks, to run a couple times a week, for a few hours a day. For the larger guys running fleets of trucks running all day (and some all night), they have to do what truckshops outfit does, they are always buying new, and have people looking them over all the time and working on them. Because they can't be broken down in the middle of wyoming very often, the freight has to move.
Running Old Equipment? I was the King of Old, sleeper 1964 Truck Trailer, 1966 351 Pete, Everything updated for the time at the time. But you don't drive it like a fool either, Sure it hauled the same GVW as any other but you have to spend a lot of time and money watching over it. Scale masters would see it and hit the red light if they hadn't seen it crossing their scale before, even with a current CVA sticker. I was old school before this horse **** old skool of today.
Hard to imagine any DOT person won't see that as what it is, an impeccably maintained truck. Might want some polish before the show next weekend, nothing else.
You related to Bob Rogers from Olympia?
No-just leased at one time, all loads went to BC.
Fender flopper-it would run that was the one fun thing about it, passing a shinny new truck.
Still a few die hard left out there.
Been thinking about the old vs new argument today while I put about $1200 worth of parts into my kenworth and spent my Saturday working on it. I haven’t been self employed very long and have been running used equipment because I convinced myself that’s all I could afford. The reality is when I look at my repairs and maintenance expenses and add it to my monthly payment on my 2008 truck, I think it would be less expensive to just pay for a new truck. On the other hand I’m emissions free and my truck is old enough that my registration costs have hit rock bottom…
On that side of things, I don't see how an O/O mechanic can justify payments. New stuff still breaks down and if it is covered under warranty it will sit for months at the dealer shop who doesn't fix it right anyway. Or waiting on an out of stock DEF sensor.
That is one of my concerns. But- the emissions stuff is better than it was 10 years ago. my last truck from the stealershit was a 2018 peterbilt. I ran it 1.5 years before I quit and we had zero issues with it. I know it’s a crapshoot but emissions is not going away. Make payments on new or spend nights and weekends working on my truck so I can work for others all week?
Yep or a sensor freaks out and shuts the truck down. The BS on the trucks has been good to towing companies!
If you still have payments and it's older it's kind of in the middle, but payments are still a lot smaller then a new truck, and so is depreciation. What about if you calculated cost/profit if you ran a new truck 50 hours a week, compared to what you have now say 45 hours a week and left 5 hours working on it or whatever you figure it would balance out so your time is equal and see which way is more profitable? Not just in the cost for this year, but in the next few years. New trucks ain't cheap and still break and cost money out of pocket.
Well being an O/O mechanic means I have Cummins insite on my laptop in the cab. Engines have had sensors on them for a long time.
Yes of course, but only recently have they been capable of putting truck into limp mode making it undriveable, even if nothing is actually wrong and no way to bypass it.
In theory it sounds good to just run my truck 45 hours a week and spend 5 doing maintenance but the reality is that I leave before daylight and get home after dark and no 2 days are the same. Some days I drive it 3 miles to the nearest mill and shut it off while I work on something in their shop and the next day I may put 300 miles on
I guess I just can't think of much that goes wrong on a T300 that would not be a lot worse to fix with something up to date vs 15 years old. What goes wrong with it now, so regularly?
Nothing serious has failed recently. Today was front brakes, drums, slacks, cans, and spring pins and bushings, and the heater mixing valve. I’d say the previous owner didn’t show it much love and the northern winters haven’t been good to it. Last week was all 6 tires and an abs modulator valve.
For sure, I just meant if you can take on a bit less work and just fix your own truck instead, also means dealing with less customers, less invoices to chase after, etc. If the truck was breaking down to the point it started costing you jobs that's different. Sounds to me like mostly all routine stuff that even a new truck will need after a few years and knocking out a lot of stuff that will last a long time.
What he said. Also if I had to guess I would say that T300 has a Cummins engine and is pre-DPF? I put a lot of hours in several T300s similar spec driving and I really liked them. The one with the 8.3 pre-DPF was really a nice setup. Quiet, never broke down, not even any EGR, just a smooth engine with common rail. The one that came after that was a first gen DPF truck and was pretty problematic. I still share the same yard with that company and they have mostly newer T300s and similar Petes and I know they do not do so well as the old days. Emissions problems galore and usually take a really long time to fix.
CANNOT explain to me Hard Enough Long Enough that Emissions Devices as these actually DECREASE Emissions especially during MULTIPLE Regens trying to coax another month or two out of a DPF or expending mass amounts of Natural Gas in ovens cooking these damned mechanisms to ash the exhaust soot that HAS TO EXHAUST SOMEWHERE. Or the sensors that are replaced ROUTINELY adding to trash going to a dump or scrapper, costing manhours, time of idle machine, cost of Viability of that machine. And all for what, some pittance of a Decrease in a particulate rate that was negligible to begin with.
Which labor hours makes you the most money? Working on a piece of iron or working on your service truck? The conundrum is your truck is a requirement to earn a living like a track hoe is to earn mine. I know that I can make more money per hour running that machine then I could ever save wrenching on it myself. The hard part is figuring your business costs and making the right the decision - the cost to run older iron and work on it or buy new and have a payment or a larger payment. Joys of small business ownership right?
It's a no brainer that new trucks under warranty where you just squirt some grease in them & maybe put a tire or 2 on them once in a while is way more efficient than an old truck that you're spending every Saturday and sometimes a night or 2 during the week working on. My log truck payments are 4000 bucks a piece and and they get washed fueled greased and go. When they hit 5 years old I will trade them in. All of this crap about new trucks breaking down all the time is an old wivestale. If that is the case those guys were probably still washing their clothes on a buckboard. I don't know about you guys but there's no way you can have an old truck that you're making a $1000 month payment on and have it come out cheaper to operate per month than a brand new one where the payment is $4000.
In many cases yes, but I raise you my dads 2015 international. In 90,000 miles it's needed a EGR and turbo (warranty), and the second time another EGR and head rebuild (not warranty $21000 bill), a few months in the shop for those, 3 tows (had to pay for 2 of them) and numerous non start issues due to dealer not finding broken part on starter that would only engage sometimes, and many many other issues and many times the dealer charging a few hours labor here and there saying something stupid isn't warranty. Bought a brand new truck and sold the 89 to get something "more reliable" and honestly it wasn't it did see more miles then the old one, but in 6 years the 89 never needed a tow and only really broke down once when the starter went, the 2015 broke down about 5 times and was towed 3 times. Instead of problems you could fix yourself it was sitting at the dealer who wasn't capable of putting washer fluid in, never mind fixing it and it came with a nice payment of over $4000 and way higher insurance compared to a truck that cost $15000 and paid for itself the first summer. Oh and it burns WAY more fuel then the old truck, like a disturbing amount. While it is the odd truck out and everyone knows the maxxforce is absolute garbage, there is plenty of newer trucks out there far less reliable then the old ones. For a O/O in the truck everyday it has to be reliable and over a certain age doesn't make sense unless you have a good setup for someone to wrench on it, but I wonder for a fleet, would it be cheaper and better to own an extra truck per every say 10 as a spare and run older and have a mechanic who does the repairs, assuming the company only ran local, if you're going across north america that's not going to work. Well I wouldn't agree looking at it month by month makes the most sense. You got to compare over a number of years total what the difference in cost is, if the new truck has a 8 year loan drawn out compared to a old one that's only 3, the older one is going to be more expensive to start but get cheaper by the end when the payment is gone. But obviously there is a age tipping point where it makes more sense to get rid of the truck and it's better suited to a owner who only runs it a few days a week.
What would the numbers be if you have older stuff and had a good mechanic who did the work on it when it already wasn't working so it was still making the same money? One advantage of older stuff is, if things slow down it's not hurting as bad to sit (could lose a fortune if you had to unload a new piece if it got slow), you can fill your time wrenching on it if you didn't have any work for it anyway, you can also own more equipment and avoid renting. Also less work to have to collect payment on, chance of not getting paid, etc. But like everything else no solution is perfect for everyone. I have 4 pieces of equipment for just myself so older paid for iron makes more sense and wrench on it myself. In 4.5 years with my bigger hoe, it's actually broken down 3 times in which I had to stop a job, 2 for hoses once for a water pump, a hose could just as easily blow on a 2-3 year old machine and frankly that rarity of a breakdown it doesn't bother me one bit. I mean I wouldn't own a 20 year old hoe with 20,000 hours on it to try and make money, but a 2008 with 9500 hours on it to me is still "fairly new" and it's been dahm reliable IMO.
I disagree about them breaking down all the time. Maybe the duty cycle is the difference. If you get out on the open highway and heat them up. But if you are making lots of short runs and idling a lot maybe that is what makes them junk. We did not have a lot of problems with the T300 chassis at all. Just the lousy emissions engines. Also the way I see it, if you are a mechanic, you can tolerate a lot more aged truck than the average joe. Because you can recognize problems early and turn a bolt without having to take it anywhere. I just don't see what is to be afraid of on an older T300 with reasonable miles. And in a mechanic service truck, at least the way I work, you are not going to rack up a lot more miles on it. But I stay close to home, I like to sleep in my own bed and I like to be home at a reasonable hour. And I do have the same problem as everyone, I have a hard time saying no.
Truck I drive is a 2016 its twin is a year older and both less than 400,000miles. Vocational, short runs then light to excessively heavy loads mine has had four DPF units only two in warranty, sensors galore only half in warranty. Not had a payment in four years and even as were in great shape should have been GONE then. New Petes and Star tractors pulling end dumps, regardless time at 460-500,000 are Sold or traded. Those that hit a five year mark similarly GONE. If cannot keep repaired under warranty are not profitable. BTW, one wreck that compromises any emissions system voids the warranty accorded the tech rep for Cummins in these(X15s). Hard to make decent continuing profit margins rolling equipment just paid off.
How much does that good mechanic and parts cost? Hence the conundrum.
Seems like that is the modern way nowadays, but an O/O with a service truck cannot swap the chassis out every 5 years like a simple semi - too custom. Or maybe he can? Uncharted territory. That sounds to me like the company trying anything they can to get out of paying warranty on their horrible Rube Goldberg systems. We are kind of in a donut hole right now, I think - older emissions trucks that a small guy can afford are the early lemon emissions models. Pre-emissions stuff is almost too old. More up-to-date stuff is still too new to afford. Maybe in another 5 years a 2020 truck will be affordable to a small guy and the emissions not so bad as a 2010 model is now. But I am not holding my breath for that.
There is one big thing you guys are missing when you're comparing 7 year old trucks to current late model trucks. Tier 4 final, the last iteration of them came out in 2018 and newer.. The amount of failures, breakdowns and issues with those 2018 & newer are miniscule compared to the 2009 through 2017 model gear. Not to mention a 2015 truck is still 7 years old and if driven with any amount of regularity it will have between a 1/2 million and 700000 miles easily.
Think that is exactly where we are. The new vs old truck/equipment calculation is and always will be the small businessman's difficult decision. The government mandated emissions equipment has only made that decision harder.
I do not know anything about this. Can you elaborate? I thought everything 2010 and newer was T4F and that was that, and any improvements have been incremental. A T300 service truck around here does not get anywhere near that kind of mileage. I would be surprised to see 400,000 on one 20 years old. There aren't any roads long enough to get anywhere like that. But maybe it is different elsewhere.
Exactly-When it comes to on road trucks mainly over the road-if a driver isn't cracking 150,000 miles a year-instead of setting on his *** in the truck he's setting on his *** at home. In 7 years it should have a million miles on it. Two of our W900L's went into service just before christmas, a little over 50,000 miles on them.
T4i came in around 2008 and didn’t use DEF. That is where most of the horror stories come from. T4Final came in around 2016-17? That uses DEF fluid and while it has some problems it is way better than t4i. Also the system has been around long enough for mechanics to get a grasp on it and learn a few tricks. I’ve personally only worked on Cummins and Volvo CE regen issues. I could write a book on some of the issues we had to work through and learn My T3 has 200k on it. It was a Deere service truck in its first life. When I first went in the field working for Volvo CE it was 2016 and I was given a 2009 T370 with 300k on it. Regen nightmare. Truck would go into limp mode, I’d call my shop foreman and tell him. His usual response was “ you’re a field tech, figure it out” and hang up the phone. A man can learn a lot when he’s just trying to get home. Then I was upgraded to a 2018 peterbilt 337 with T4F. I ran it 60k and the only thing I did was keep the DEF tank full.
The key components to a trouble free system are Run them hard. Get them up to temp. Clean DEF & change your DEF filter every other service. Keep the tank full (don't let it sit for extended periods with under 3/4 tank) If you have a DEF issue, check the heater & filter first. We have 60k hours on T4F gear/trucks and have had two issues. One pump went bad (mechanic wasn't changing DEF filter at services) and a DEF heater went out (3 weeks under freezing and operator was using auto shutoff leaving key on.)
Vocational Units do not always have the ability to perform as noted, Dump Trucks, Mixer Trucks, even Ag or Construction Off Road machines with DPF and SCR systems cannot always perform to the Intended design of DEF Equipment on Tier Four applications. Leads to excess Down time, Loss of machines and or operators, Sudden Failure instances requiring Tow or debilitating time pressure machinery(again Mixers). Know of Five mixers of just One company lost drums due to mix solidification due to Immediate Shut Down of newer machines(Less than three years old) where the System was never intended as a true Functional for these Vocational applications. AG Tractors here end up back on dealer yards unable to Regen, lack of spare parts in inventory due to High Cost to that dealer until a Warranty is Paid is another issue. Electronics malfunctions are costing many AG and Construction dealers here real moneys as machines that could be out for rental are out as Warranty replacements and the Manufacturer is not as liberal in expense recoveries. T4 generators are now beginning to see similar issues, our Local Hospital had their unit replaced one as was nearing 20 years age and two for not being 'Environmentally Friendly' as per our local Activists pressure. The New unit failed on a auto start due to the DPF choking out or sensor failed(Never released by the vendor) was in a time of necessity not a routine start and fast idle as required monthly, scared the local authorities where they are considering replacement yet again with a USED Non T4 SCR DPF unit. Replacement by T4 unit was three years ago.
That's my confusion, around here DEF came on trucks in 2011 or so, and there have not been any major changes since that I could tell.
Biggest issue I’ve found has been having parts changers not actual mechanics any more company terminal I work out of has a shop full of them the younger guys who actually wanted to learn the shop foreman ran off as they threatened his job because they wanted to learn to keep the work in-house rather than farming anything other than basics out to the dealer
Many have dropped the 1 box. Biggest problem is keeping the exhaust temp up, Idling is a killer. Running the engine to operate a hydraulic system {because that's the way it is} not enough exhaust temp.
I have one friend that does specialized heavy and wind power, going in & out of the ports and California nothing is over 3 years old, dealer service only is his thing. Another does mid-west flat, '99 Pete immaculately maintained and likes not having to run ELD (for now) and his simpler truck that he can work on is a plus to him. Both make good money, both are happy. To each their own.
What brand of trucks do you have ? I did think like you do but there is always a truck or 2 that is a problem and with all the junk they have on them now its happens more often. How long have you been in trucking?
It seems that the load factor on the engines, particularly in the light use seen in utility work, has been the unsolvable problem for the engineering departments that designed this mess. I've heard of a few municipalities changing out diesel power for gasoline or other fuel simply because the unit was required to sit at idle for long periods of time. Diesels would pack up with soot and shut down. The use of DEF helped because firing temps could be increased without the increasing the formation of NOX. There are times that even machines normally used in heavy duty operations have to sit at idle. I did an inspection last week on a machine where I had the front in the air held on the hydraulics. I do not shut down engines when there is weight in the air that might fall through some kind of failure. What I didn't know was that the manufacturer made that decision for me. The computer shut down the engine while I was doing some measuring. I'm sure the auto shutdown could be disabled if one could find where in the black hole of a diagnostics menu that function was located. The point though is that I wasn't aware that it was there and there was no indication of it being active on the monitor. The emergency generator sets supporting a hospital, the bucket truck holding a lineman rehanging a power line, the excavator that has to sit running while men are working in the trench laying pipe or repairing electrical and communications lines. So at what point does this emissions stuff become a safety issue for those who have to depend on a running engine? At what point does the supposed benefits to those people who "could" be harmed over a lifetime outweigh the safety of those actually maintaining the systems that keep people alive in the present moment?
They have mathematical models for who "could" be harmed by PM and NOx emissions. The regulators treat that as gospel even though there are thousands of assumptions. They have no such models for people injured or put out of business and the resulting poverty effects. So that gets ignored.
Really do NOT appreciate Mathematic Modeling or Actuarial Depictions, most are grossly overstated or Under designated so as to benefit a narrow margin classification that cannot be justified otherwise. Air Bags, Safety Bumpers of Cars, some of the game playing with 'Improved' safety devices that can only be challenged in a actual more than not Tragic event as a Disprover yet the Powers that Be still consider their game the ONLY game.
Our Cat 325FL can be programed through the monitor to shut down after so many minutes of idling however there is a buzzer warning letting the operator know it's about to shut down. We usually have it set at 15 minutes unless we are laying pipe or similar for obvious reasons.
I know that is standard operation now, but in my case the engine shut down at around five minutes of idling. There was no indication of that shutdown parameter being active and I could not be in the cab to hear or see any communication operation to inform me of that. An alert on the monitor when the machine throttle was set to idle to alert someone, who was not normally the operator, might be something to think about by the manufacturers. My brother in law had a truck years ago that had that shut down feature and a light on the dash came on when the key was turned off that told the driver the engine would run for five minutes before it would shut down. That was more than thirty years ago. It was an aggravation at the time. It could have been something worse for some newby not fully trained or experienced about all that can happen.
Most any of the class 7 and 8 trucks come with idle shutdown and start/stop mode. To act as a APU for summer/winter conditions. A option that came out about 4 years ago, the start stop was to cut constant idle time running ac/heater but also to cut soot in DPF.
The plugging of DPF I can directly relate it to lower exhaust temps. I have 65 on the road running to Fargo, Denver, Houston and Atlanta. The 100K loads are mainly NW, Fargo, Denver. The 80k down south. But we have a high percentage of trucks that just run Id, Wa & Ore. And some that just run the creek {gorge} to Portland. Where emission systems issues show up is the flatland running. 8 trucks that mainly haul Id-Wa have to pull Cayuse/Cabbage and Ladd Canyon and several other grunts along the way. Those 8 have had roughly 50% less issues with emission equipment than the rest in the fleet. Those trucks climb those grades everyday round trip.
Here you go folks-sold for extremely low prices {lol} Some may argue these were rebuilt-no these are all New OLD Stock Gliders. Big Bucks were handed out. Blue-1987 359--White-1980 359---Gray 1975 352.
Add in the cost/hassle of getting DPF's cut off too. Know multiple companies who after the 3rd time said they aren't paying to put them on again, deleted all their trucks and said the hell with it. Concrete ready mix place has got hit a few times every single truck in the yard cut out, down for at least a few days by the time they are fixed never mind the massive cost each time, was told around $100k. They reek havoc on the engines. The DPF fell off my pick up and somehow the closed crankcase starting venting outside again and my mileage went up Don't give me any BS that it's better for the environment. Urea is awful for it. All the extra parts on the truck cause emissions to produce and maintain, the trucks burn more diesel and engines don't last as long. They spin it as better for the environment as they can say per gallon of diesel the exhaust is cleaner, or when idling the exhaust is cleaner but it's all BS. I just feel sorry for you guys down south that can't legally run deleted trucks. Here you can even get a truck inspected at the dealer and they couldn't careless if it's deleted. There is a reason the gliders get so much money, it's worth it to avoid emissions.
I have Peterbilt log & service trucks & Kenworth heavy haul trucks. I have only had my own over the last 16 years but have owned trucks from the 70's to 2022's.
Can you explain this a little? Are you talking down time? Can't get operators? Are you factoring in deprecation to maximize tax benefits? I know you run a nice operation. Just looking for your point of view.
Thank you. From my pencil you are not getting the max return on your dollar. Drivers do not take care of older gear as well, you generally do not get the best without offering the best. Depreciation is another big one as When you depreciate out a $300000 truck over 5 years versus a $50000 truck over 5 years, at the end of the 5 years you're gonna have a heck of a lot more of an asset with the new truck versus the old truck. Reliability. I know there are a lot of guys in here that are still stuck in the steam donkey days and oxen for plows but let's be honest late model gear is far more reliable overall than 20 year old gear. Again back to drivers, if you have stuff continually broke down you're not gonna keep a good driver.
Correct, especially in your business. In 80% of the rest of the trucking business the good driver theory is washed down with has been and want to be with little work ethic. Even with newer equipment the ratio of worthless runs high. Broken equipment makes it worse. You can run older trucks--But when doing a complete truck rebuild it's really a restoration. No stones left unturned-and that requires a top level no holds bared mechanic working in a company owned shop that treats the owners equipment as his own. And no scrimping on cost to rebuild. Plus the truck has to be nothing else but a Pete 359, 379 or KW W900B W900B long hood period. Because the rest of the trucks made don't hold there value and are worth squat on the market. And a good driver will have tendency to respect it and you------------------ -----------and maybe that snarly sarcastic mechanic in the shop who built it.
As the owner of a small business, $300k for a truck is unimaginable. Not that it doesn't make sense somewhere in the bookkeepers office, however my debt tolerance is calibrated at a much lower level. I am going to guess your fuel bill keeping trucks and Iron going is substantial at that level, well beyond my comfort level. I am guessing my banker would give me a funny look asking for 300K. So I am in the particular arena, where new trucks are unatainable finacially, however trucks in my price range are in the years of odd engines and unreliable emissions systems. On the east coast rust adds it own factor to the used truck market, so we are looking for vocational trucks with reliable engines without a blown out double frame.
Just in from the hot sun wrenching on my service truck, lawn mower, and tractor and taking a break.............i gotta chime in on this. The benefit of working on your own truck is that you can see what needs to be done, the condition of crap on the truck, and you take the extra effort to do the extra stuff that others might not do.........never seize the fasteners instead of putting them on dry, see a potential chafe point and put some chafe guard on BEFORE it happens, fluid film that developing rust spot, throw some grease here, etc. I am a self employed heavy equipment mechanic, like Mike; and have a few customers who do site development. One good customer has a bunch of CAT equipment and Mack GRU dump trucks. This past winter........could be fall..........one of the drivers complained about long crank when the engine was hot. MP8 engine.............2018 truck...........about 130,000 miles at the time............needed injector cups. So this was in Febuary. Told the owner we could do it over a weekend at his shop (when I say 'we' I include him and myself......he's a hard worker and gets right into it and helps........I respect the hell of him and his work ethic) or he could send it to Mack. He looked at me and asked if I had ever done those before...........I said "No...........alot things I haven't done before. There is always a first time but I'm fairly confident we can get it done without a problem..........that's why I said over a weekend.......just in case we run into a problem." He said........"Yeah, what if you need other parts?? Then what??" I answered "Well, we'll just have to wait and get the parts then." He said "Don't you have bigger fish to fry?? (as in working on his loaders or excavators)" The short of this is..........he decided to send it to Mack. I called, made an appointment, Mack was booking over a month out, verified they had a cup and injector kit in stock.......(they had 3 in stock). The appointment was late in Febuary during school vacation week when my family and I go skiing. So Monday morning first of school vacation, the truck goes to Mack for a 1 day injector cup replacement. The following week I come home from skiing and get this text..........'How was skiing?? Are you still up there??' ............not good..........I replied ' Skiing good..........I'm home'............phone rings 2 seconds later. The truck is still in the shop, they took the injectors and cups out BEFORE verifying they had the REPLACEMENT PARTS. Now I get involved with the BS going on with the dealer. Dealer can't source the injectors (crazy right??!!) Call parts..........one parts guy is saying he can get injectors overnighted for tomorrow...........I order 6 injectors. The following morning, no injectors. Another parts guy says the first parts guy is full of **** (direct quote) and there are no injectors to be had. I call back later and talk to first parts guy I talked to and he says the injectors are coming and the 2nd parts guy is full of ****!! Again, direct quotes without me saying one parts guy is saying the other parts guy is full of ****.............UNREAL!! The short end of it...........I sourced injectors from another shop in the southern part of the state, had them shipped to me overnight, then hand delivered them to the dealer. That was on a Friday morning...........the truck has NOW BEEN DOWN 2 WEEKS. Didn't get put back together until the following Monday..........picked up on Tuesday. I've ended up getting involved with resolving dealer problems quite a few times with regards to customers.........and the company my wife works for.........all because the dealer is playing games and screwing things up. So the last thing I really want to do is work on my own truck or work on my wifes Expedition.............but.........it needs to get done. I'd rather do it than see it come back with questionable work or have someone else screw the pooch fixing my truck. I'd rather know what short cuts I'm taking and deal with them later than find out later SUPRISE!! They screwed this up!! Or didn't do this when it was staring them in the face. I write off my time and the parts I put into my equipment. Nope, doesn't make me money but it gives me piece of mind. Seen too many *** fixes.
Giving away your time for free is the worst business decision anyone could make.
How do you see I'm giving my time away for free?? I track time and expenses on parts..........that gets written off at the end of the year off the taxes. Working on my wife's Expedition...........which is registered and insured as a company vehicle..........also gets written off. So you'd rather have me take my service truck to the dealer for an 8 hour job that turns into 2+ weeks because they can't figure out where to get parts or verify they have the parts in stock before they take it apart??? Just curious where this is coming from..........
I’m at the point where it would be cheaper and more beneficial if I bought a new truck. Example-Monday evening I was underneath my truck giving it a squirt of grease and I found a broken rear spring. Hendrickson z spring. Broke between the u bolts and had spread apart better than an inch. Too late to get one and get it installed. Tip toed the truck to a job the next morning. When the kw dealer opened I ordered one and had the parts runner from my biggest customer pick it up for me. I got the truck to their shop and swapped it out, losing another 4-5 billable hours or so. Worked most of the day today and tomorrow will be my day off but I’ve got motor mounts to change and a boom cylinder to reseal on my truck. Between my truck payment and the money and time I spend keeping it roadworthy it would be cheaper to just make the payment on a new truck. Now if it wasn’t so damned expensive to register a truck in Maine…
I just got done registering my trucks last month.......2012 Freight shaker, 2018 Pete, and my trusty rusty 2001 F250, 2018 Expedition..........about $3k for state and town taxes and fees. Not sure what its like in Maine.........now. Some times it is not worth it to be wrenching on your truck. Had a 2008 F350 w/ 6.4L diesel. I think it was 2 years ago the Fed Ex guy stopped at the house to drop off some packages. He made the comment "You spend more time working on that truck than you do driving it." I was kind of surprised. I asked him "How so??" He said every time I go by or drop off packages your working on it. Now I get the majority of my packages from UPS and the minority come via Fedex. The truck had 280,000 miles on it so it was getting long in the tooth. That was a very good indication I was working on it way too much. Maybe you need to set up a project week?? Put together a list of things you need to get done, set em up and knock em down?? I'll do that sometimes........usually in the winter though. With the economy the way it is, all of these parts shortages, finding a used service truck is going to be hard. I have a buddy down in MA and they ordered 3 new Pete w/ Maintainer bodies about a year ago. He said they were still a year out from getting them. He asked me if I wanted to sell my Pete..........and he was serious...........I said no...............he was offering me $130k for it!!!
Have had a 2014 Western Star dump truck down at work awaiting a PCM since February, Frt Lnr dealer STILL Making lame excuses after calling the boss THREE Times giving a Delivery Date only to be called back and informed NOT Coming. The 2015 I drive limped FOUR Weeks for Lift axle Brake Shoes while DOT played in the neighborhood, STILL Needs Drums but are so far on BO as to be UNOBTANIUM. BTW, FIVE More days to Returned to Retired.
Maine has a ridiculous excise tax based on the window sticker price of the vehicle. Not what you paid. I’m not sure of the rate but it’s highway robbery.
NICE!! 5 day, how many hours and minutes to go??LOL Sadly I think the stealerships don't give a crap. The parts are out there...........you just need to find them. Case in point last month I had a customers dump truck that stopped dumping when the bed was part way up. It was a 98 Pete 357 with a front mount pump on an air clutch Chelsea PTO. The output shaft and the input shaft on the pump had fretted down to nothing. Bought a new tandem pump and was unable to source shaft from any Chelsea PTO suppliers. Did a Google search for the part number and found a new Chelsea shaft on Ebay for cheap. Messaged the seller and asked them to over night the part.........they agreed. Took 3 days to get all the parts and 6 hours to get it back together. Took it apart while waiting for the parts. My biggest complaint is looking up and sourcing the parts. Plenty of times my customers have walked in to find me sitting on my butt in front of my laptops (plural) with my blue tooth earpiece in. "What are you doing??" ............"Looking up parts and trying to find them!!" Most of them get it. I hate it!! LOL.........I got a Komatsu D39E-1 dozer that the customer wants to put new sprockets on. I called the Komatsu dealer. Their parts guy told me......"We don't sell those. You need to find an aftermarket place."........CLICK. 90% of finding people to deal with is FINDING THE PEOPLE WHO GIVE A F#CK!! THAT IS THE BIGGEST BATTLE!! And I think that's why I have such a big customer base............the give a f#ck factor. Alot of days I'll be doing triage on the fly. Who needs attention and repairs now and who can wait..............it's hard. Sorry, your service is going to have to wait. But I'm 100 hours over due. Yes, I get it.........but other people are down.........your running. If you were down, would you want me jumping on your machine or telling you that you need to wait because I need to change oil?? And they understand and get it.
I think you've completely missed the point on working on a truck versus just making a payment and driving one while they are still under warranty and then trading them in. Yes you can write your time off but you still lost that time, maybe your time's not very valuable to you but mine is to me.
No, no............I get it. I do!! The expedition and my pickup go to the dealer. My diesel powered toolbox...........the one I need to go out and make my living............does not go to the dealer. I believe I have outlined a few examples in previous posts here. THE DEALERSHIP DOESN'T CARE. Maybe your big enough that you have plenty of spare trucks that can take the place of a downed truck moribound at the dealership while they fritter away the time waiting for a part to miraculously appear, but I do not have that luxury. I believe DMiller also posted about a truck still sitting at the dealership waiting for parts. Not playing that game. So if it takes me 2 days of 12 hour days to get my office, mode of transportation, and diesel powered toolbox up and running then I'll do that. Sourcing parts for a Stealership after they've taken a truck apart and didn't have the FORE THOUGHT to check their parts inventory??? I shouldn't have to do that. 2+ weeks to repair a truck, after I sourced the injectors and got them for them, on a 8 hour job?? NO!! I have plenty of examples of these kinds of games. I do keep my Freightliner M2 as a backup, but switching out the tools, welding machine, etc...............its a pain in the ass.
I'm just glad I'm the age I am, some young **** cutter can just take my spot and he is welcome to it. This world of I needed it yesterday I want it now is getting rather old. Go to the back of the bus and set in the stink. No business is anymore important than the next, take a number. Too many years listening to the whine.
A world of Chiefs without Indians has turned the majority to nothing but squaws.
I was unaware that running a new truck on warranty means it doesn't break down and it's amazing if your dealer gives you some kind of guarantee that it won't, I can count quite a few that's not the case. My brother has a 19 western star, it's been back to dealer at least a handful of times before it hit 30,000 miles, and most of the time of course it's not warranty so it's a big bill and lots of downtime, coupled with incompetent mechanics. Granted the problems have mostly been the dump box rig up issues and not the western star truck itself, it's still broken down. And there's millions more just like it. It doesn't matter if the trucks 2 months, 2 years or 20 years old they all break down, the only thing that's changed is new is less of an assurance of reliability, it never has been nor will it ever be a guarantee of reliability. Warranty work is also generally at the bottom of list as it doesn't pay as well as regular repairs. And you're also forced to go to generally the 1 dealer in town, no matter how bad they are and how terrible their hours are like 9-5 m-f. If someone running a service truck can't run a few years older truck and keep it running without a bunch of breakdowns, I wouldn't hire them to fix my stuff. It would be like a trucker hiring another truck to haul stuff for them, a welder to weld something for them. If your job is fixing equipment/trucks you're not losing a dime fixing your own versus paying a dealer to fix it, or running something really new, in fact the new one is likely costing you more in the end.
Disagree 100%, good and/or bigger customers get priority 100% of the time. That's how virtually everyone operates and in virtually all cases it makes sense. You think a dealer who has a customer who buys 50 trucks a year compared to the guy who buys 1 ever and the dealer doesn't give priority to the big customer? Of course everyone will. If you don't you're going to loose their business and rightfully so. If getting a part or a truck fixed meant you were getting paid on friday, and if it didn't get fixed you weren't getting paid for weeks, would you have a different opinion? That's a big difference for self-employed guys, if their truck/equipment is broken down they aren't making money, maybe they can't finish a big job and get paid, or there is penalties for being late, or the general brings in someone else and charges them back a fortune, for not finishing 1 days work you could get charged back $10k easy if not more. Not trying to be a dick but it's something a lot of employees don't understand, they think magically their money will appear every 2 weeks no matter what. If it meant waiting an extra 2 weeks for their next paycheck I bet their mindset would change pretty quick on how much they cared about things like that. I stopped buying anything from the Takeuchi dealer because they didn't give a **** and parts were always 1-2 weeks and most of the time ordered wrong stuff so I said screw em and I order everything online now and won't give them a penny of my money. The Volvo dealer? Any part in north america here next day for next to nothing. I will buy everything from them even if it costs a bit more because they understand how the business works. If something breaks I want that part now, not next week not in 3-4 days, I want it now. Every time my big hoe has broken down it's in the middle of a job and i'm getting hounded multiple times a day for when it's going to be finished, I won't deal with a supplier who isn't doing everything in their power to get the part as fast as possible. It's not always the case, but I know if they can't make it happen next day (which has only happened once) they tried their best and i'm ok with that.
I wrote that just for you, I knew you would be here like a bad smell. Anyone who goes into business always says {I'm the one taking all the risk}. That's good it's your choice, but it doesn't mean preferential treatment. And since I have been with this company we've bought over 400, and guess what those trucks get to set and wait too. Customer gets demanding-the slower it will go.
In the last 5 new class 8 trucks I have bought, the only problem was a stripped Squirrel cage in the heater & a multi function switch that was faulty & the switch was 99% driver abuse. You tell be how missing zero trips & at the dealer a combined 5 hours (ours works til midnight & Saturday so no trips missed there either) is costing me over some clapped out truck with 600k on it that is looser than the town whore? I get it, 98% of you guys think you are smarter than the engineers, can design it better than those with hundreds of millions for R&D, and can monitor an engine better than one with sensors all over it. Hell, I'm sure you said that thar damned EeeEffEye ain't never gonna work better than a good ol holley on an elderbrock mannyfold. Each to their own but there is a reason the most successful companies run modern gear. Cost per mile.
For critical equipment I run newer stuff or have duplicates, some both. Not all my stuff is still in warranty, but its newer. With electronic everything, obsolesce of necessary repair parts is a significant issue. I could make or adapt every part in a diesel engine except for the computer. There are even mechanical parts that are unavailable after short product life cycles, but at least they can often be duplicated.
At the cost of fuel these days a manual transmission cannot and will not compete with a computerized automated manual transmission for increased mileage. No lugging and no over speeding, keeps the rpm right in power band/torque curve. At last service on one of our 2023 T990 Kenworth's with a EEO 12 spd---Cummins X15 530 Hp moving 100,000 GVW on a regular route back and forth over the Blue Mountains---Average MPG----5.9 to 6.1. The ones with manual 4.8 to 5.1.---------No rocket science there.