Here's my Liddell-Birmingham trailer. I use it to haul my JD 410B and my JD 450E along with other minor stuff. I've always been a little curious/confused about how much this trailer is actually designed to carry. It clearly lists the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating as 26,000 lbs. But, it also lists the Gross Axle Weight Rating as 10,000 lbs with 2 axles. It also lists the frame rating as 20,000 lbs. So, which is it 20,000 or 26,000? It also lists the tires/wheels as 16.5" load range E. If you add up the load rating on the tires, they barely make 20,000.
Which leads me to the reason for the thread. I decided to replace the wheels and tires with 16" load range G tires. By doing this I will be able to match the 26,000 lb number on the tag. I've always been under the impression that these were hub piloted, 8 on 6.5" wheels. The wheel studs are 5/8" - 18 and the lug nuts are a one piece flange nut. What's interesting is that the wheel flange face on the hub looks like it could accommodate stud piloted wheels...
And, the wheel on the inside on this side clearly looks like it was stud piloted. Before someone ground or beat the conical sections off, kinda..
The outside wheel on this side has a flat face with no conical protrusions.
The hub measures (to the best of my abilities) 4.78125".
I been looking at these; https://www.etrailer.com/Tires-and-Wheels/Taskmaster/TTWA16RG488.html They have a center hole that measures 4.88"
My questions to you all; 1) What is this trailer rated at? 2) Is this hub piloted or stud piloted? C) Would the 4.88" center hole work in this application?
I know they will be more money and it depends on how much you use your trailer. If you can swing 17.5 tires and wheels I think would be a good investment. Hard to believe how much better the 17.5 hold up compared to the 16s.
I really don't use it that much. Just around town stuff. And I really don't need tires rated at 48,000 lbs. But thanks for the thought.
Something I didn't think of at the time but you have to have room for them also.
Yeah, the tires I linked to above are already an inch and a half taller than what I have on there now and I'm wondering how that's gonna work out...
Those are coined rims. They HAVE to be staggered when you install, or you will have issues with studs. Those look exactly like the 10k axles we had on a early 80's Trail King pintle trailer.
The coined rims are exactly like the early Dodge dually rims, they have to go on with the wheel stud cones in the right position or you really mess up the rims and hub. My old dinosaur Dodge motor home has these... in 16.5 no less. Grrrr.
Same rims that were on my '73 F 350 dump truck. The conical protrusions alternate, one inie, one outie. They used conical lug nuts. And, the hub had the matching recess. That system is stud piloted. I think I got a mix matched collection of left over parts here.
Gross trailer weight usually refers to the total loaded trailer weight... weight of cargo plus weight of empty trailer. guessing your trailer at 8000. probably good for 7 or 8 ton (9 ton according to the data if 8000 is correct) depending on the weight laws where you live, tire size, axle spacing & ratings, present hitch rating if changes made or worn and inner bridge measurement and OA wheel base. Used to haul a Dynahoe 190 B with a 4 in 1 that weighed about 18,500. Loader bucket hanging over the back of a ten wheeler on a Hyster 20 ton back when dirt was new.
Yup, that's the way I see it. Thanks
A lot of manufacturers add tongue weight, so that they can increase their GVWR. This can be misleading and is not really the right way to do it. GVWR should always be listed as what the axles can carry. For instance, this trailer should be rated at a 20,000 GVWR. The loading capacity should be the 20,000 GVWR - trailer weight + the tongue weight. Typically on a tag or pintle type trailer, the tongue weight will be around 12%, which would be 2,400 lbs., so total GVWR would increase to 22,400 lbs. With this trailer being rated at a 26,000 GVWR the manufacturer is claiming a 30% transfer of weight to the tow vehicle, which no truck would be capable of handling. Also, by rating the trailer at a 26,000 GVWR, the buyer of the trailer would be required to pay 12% FET to the government. Hope this helps answer your initial question about trailer rating.
Thanks for the info there behnks1990. Hadn't even considered that they would add the tongue weight.
Out with the old...
In with the new.
where did you get that at and what was it labeled as?
Actually, adding tongue weight to trailer GVWR is normal and correct. Using only axle ratings results in G A WR. This is an air-braked trailer, and very few if any air braked trucks would care at all about 6000 lbs tongue weight unless the hitch was on a long over-hang behind the wheels. I am not getting on my soapbox here, but 10% tongue weight is the minimum for the trailer to handle well, not the optimum. This is one major reason heavy trucks handle heavy trailers much more safely than pickups do.
Hey Georgia Iron, I picked up the tank and valve locally at Woodwards Spring Shop in New Bedford, MA. The tank was labeled as "Air Tank 9.5" dual" and is similar to this tank; https://www.finditparts.com/products/362584/haldex-19840 The valve was labeled as "valve KN 30400" and looks to be similar to this valve; https://www.finditparts.com/product...obY2imVCACS746zo0cdTpOIjjjTUw6iRoCqaoQAvD_BwE Thanks for the comment.
Makes sense to me. Agreed. Thanks for the input there mitch504.
Thanks for the info
No problem. It should be pointed out that this valve is for the old style trailers with NO SPRING BRAKES.
When I bought this trailer the previous owner had recently replaced the decking. Fairly nice oak, but, instead of fastening it to the crewmembers he wedged pressure treated 4 x 4's in between the frame rails and used 4" sheetrock screws to fasten the decking to the 4 x 4's. So, I finally made the time to fix that mess.
Of course I had to cut up all the decking to get it off and remove the 4 x 4's. While my 2" white oak was drying I doubled up on all the crossmembers and replaced all the wiring.
Now to replace that leaking drum seal...
After a couple of rounds of steel wool and gasoline the drum cleaned up real nice. I sure would like to put this thing on a brake lathe and take a light pass on it but no one around here seems to do that any more. Not surprising that there are quite a few used brake lathes for sale on Craigslist.....
As the pins and rollers were all froze up I picked up a spring kit locally. Dang those springs are hard to get back on!
Red neck truck wrench...
Funny … My local O'Reilly's auto parts has a brake lathe. Too bad they don't have anyone qualified to use it. They buggered my drum. (electric trailer brake. Tried to true the magnet surface. Instead, they cut it into a dish.
Not funny. I would have been steamin'
Decided to use this for lube...
Acorns in all of them...
Mouse nests, anything sets long here ends up with them. The pin in the hub is the giveaway, auto staggers the cup/cone sets on the rims. Ford Dodge and GM all had variations of those. ALWAYS default to Lowest Common Denominator as to GVWR, Tires rated at less than 20k, then the trailer should not be loaded beyond that, and DOT does look at sidewall ratings. My Gooseneck has single 16s on it, Trailer Rated, load range G, I will not push the limits on those.
Good advice there DMiller. Thanks.
The second one went well...
I think I'll be pulling the cam shaft on number 3.
You said the springs were a xxxx to install. How did you do it ? A special tool ? or pliers and grunt ? I hate springs, fight them off and fight them on. And if you happen to lose your grip on one, it flies away from you to hide in the grass or corner of the shop.
There has been a trick to this for those without the tooling. Install lower shoe get cam roller into the bottom of the S, hang the upper to the spring to the lower and swing it into place then use a pry bar to align and set the Anchor pin. Use leverage where you can. Can do similar hang upper and swing lower into place on the spring, whichever works best for the application. PS Mind fingers in pinch points when do this.
At first I was using a bar with a shallow hole drilled in it to hook the end of the hook on the spring. That worked ok as the spring wouldn't slip off as easily. I was concerned about deforming the hook so then I started using a stiff scraper knife to slide in between the last two coils of the spring and then prying on that with a bar and both hands and a screw driver and my knee... and.. I was actually thinking just what Mr Miller just said...
A trick my old man used to use on brake shoe springs was to put the spring in a vice, and then to force a washer in between two coils, then repeat as many times as needed to stretch it in order to get it into position. After installation pull the washers out one at a time and Bob's your father's brother......
I was wandering when someone was going to tell him how to do it
Hmmm... that doesn't look right.
Looks kinda Broken!!
New air lines.
Old Nylon tubing does age and oil rot or harden, sometimes just better off to replace.
Yup. Passed the soapy water test.
Thewelder mentioned 17.5" tires but he didn't mention with those you can run singles instead of duals and achieve the same weight capacity. I specified them on my equipment trailer, it saves some weight and overall cost by eliminating 4 wheels and tires. You don't have to worry about an inner wheel flat either. Just a thought is you are still considering.