Good evening from Karluk Alaska. Today one of the boys was moving my excavator and apparently some thing gave, one side will track forward and reverse the other nothing, I went to see what was going on and after inspection I found by raising the track off the ground and engaging all I have is a whirring sound. I am wondering seems how there is no grinding maybe it might be safe to limp to my shop 250 yds away, I also would like to know if anyone knows where I can find a pdf service manual so I don't have to wait 2wks for a mail plane to bring one, if one can come! Any input would be very helpful and I thank you all in advance.
Maybe you can buy the service manual at the ebay or other website. It's say to that there is no free one.
From the symptoms it would appear you have a broken shaft either in the output side of the travel motor or the input side of the final drive reduction box. Have you tried removing the magnetic plug from the outer final drive cover to see if it's covered with metal..? If it is not covered in metal then you ought to be safe enough to limp the machine to the shop before starting to pull it apart. There are no pdf Service Manuals for Cat machines. The best you will do is a paper one from somewhere such as Amazon or eBay. Just make sure before buying that it covers your specific machine Serial Number and contains the following sections: - Specifications Schematics Systems Operation Test & Adjust Disassembly & Assembly Troubleshooting (some manuals don't have this section) By looking at the cover of the Manual on the eBay photo a lot of the manuals are only certain sections, not the complete manual. If you look at this eBay offering you can see the sections indicated on the spine of the cover of the Manual. With larger machines the Manual may be in two volumes, smaller machines it will be all in one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/caterpillar...dent-manual-/201414263832?hash=item2ee539c418
The members on here can help you by emailing specific sections relating to disassembly & assembly of the travel motor & final drive so long as you give the machine Seiral Number.
You can hobble it along, pushing weak side with bucket. Park with final drives under the boom. Get track joint up near the sprocket and split, hold the top of the track with a chain to the carrier roller stand so you have less work installing. Block the rollers up off the track about 4". Need to vacume hyd tank and plug lines to motor, the control valve is float center and open to the hank in hold. Unbolt final drive and lift off then place on the ground, end cover down. Then the motor can be unbolted and removed. Later Bob
Bob, I'm hoping that maybe the input shaft into the final drive has failed. That wouldn't contaminate the hydraulic system. That's why I asked the OP if he had tried pulling the mag plug on the final drive cover to see if there is any appreciable amount of metal on it. Personally I wouldn't go splitting the track until I had: - a) looked at the mag plug (Ref #19 below) and, b) if the mag plug did have appreciable amounts of metal on it then I'd pull the outside cover on the final drive (x 16 bolts #29), hook out the two planetary assemblies and hopefully find shaft #25 in the illustration below in 2 neat pieces..... One thing though, in order to keep the Final Drive in one piece and avoid the 2 ring gears 333 & #43 falling down when the bolts were pulled out would require making at least 2 maybe 3 guide bolts. The bolts #29 are M20 x 180 long. The heads chopped off a couple of those bolts would work. Thoughts..?
I am going to pull the mag plug first, I will get back to you, thank you allso much for helping
Raise that side and try to force the track to turn by external force and see what happens. The motor can lock the travel hydraulicly through he counter balance valve and physically through the brake. Don't cripple the machine until you have it set up to work on. Later Bob
As Bob says, see if you can't get the machine into the shop safely and without causing any more damage before starting to pull things apart.
yesterday when I went to see what was up with it, I did just that to get it off the road, it does turn, I am going to take a very slow approach, raise the weight off the track while using swing and the other travel to get me to shop. gonna be a very long 250 yds
That's EXACTLY What i'd Do ….. Trying NOT to have that track turn or worse rotating the motor ……. Munch Munch Munch !!! ……. Good-Luck with it !!! ….
I so appreciate everyones input, it appears a seal has gone bad the final was bone dry and there was no signs of metal on the plug so i am hopeful. where the drive oil went i am clueless because not a drip anywhere
No oil at all ......?? That sounds like big $ to me. When was the last time the machine was serviced that included a final drive oil change..? Were you there when the oil was put in..?
its unfortunate i was not the one nor was i present
One more question before losing all hope. What exactly was the position of the magnetic plug when you removed it..? If it was between 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the cover you should have got oil out of it because the correct oil level in the final drive is about half-full give or take. If the plug was above that level then it would have been above the oil level and so no oil would have come out of the plug hole. Can you post a photo of the magnet of the mag plug..? If the mag plug is at the top of the final drive in its current position try rotating the final drive until the plug is pretty much at the bottom. Does that show any oil..? If it is proven conclusively that there wasn't a drop of oil in the final drive when the magnetic plug was removed then I would say without even looking inside it that it's likely to be totally trashed. The lack of oil will have seized a bearing or bearings and the increased load from the extra friction will have caused the input drive shaft from the motor to snap like a carrot. TBH I'm amazed that you say you can get it to turn. If that's the case Bob/Ont was right all along. Split the track and get the final drive out as a unit, put it in a vertical position and start by removing the big cover #21 in my diagram above. Make sure you take plenty of photos as you pull it apart because this is likely going to be a prime example of "how not to" ............
Expensive but all isn't lost. The gears are very hard and may clean up okay. Need bearings and shafts, the duo cone seat can be repaired in a machine shop. The coupling sleeve between the motor and sun gear likely worn out and stripped. Motor shaft may be okay. Later Bob
i positioned the drain plug so i could drain what was left and inspect, nothing, not a trace, i stuck my finger in as well, here is the weird part, the track freely moves, smoothly I might add with the faintest noise like gears that almost connect, not a grinding noise. and for the love of pete where did the drive oil go? I looked where its been working and where it gets parked (in the shop) and not a drip mark anywhere frustrating, my other did is clean and perfectly filled
4000 for all the new parts with shipping and fluids my biggest concern is the cone seat
i positioned the drain plug so i could drain what was left and inspect, nothing, not a trace, i stuck my finger in as well, here is the weird part, the track freely moves, smoothly I might add with the faintest noise like gears that almost connect, not a grinding noise. and for the love of pete where did the drive oil go? I looked where its been working and where it gets parked (in the shop) and not a drip mark anywhere frustrating, my other side is clean and perfectly filled
Pictures?
I havent pulled it apart yet, I am right on the shelikof straight and the salt contentin the air iscrazy bad, so Iwillcrack it open as soonas Iam goingtodo the entirejob,I am waiting on the new guide bolts, I have a bunch of parts on way and believe me ill be posting pics, im so rural I cant afford to mess up!!!!!!
OK, we've confirmed there was no il in it which is not good. The problem as I see it is that unless you have X-Ray vision there is no way on this earth you can tell what the final drive needs in the way of parts without pulling it to pieces first, unless you know something I don't........
Nige, It's a tried and true American method, order everything but the housing and either send back what you don't use, or if the unit is completely fubar send it all back and replace the unit.
well I am many miles from any real civilization and 3hrs plane ride away from the nearest cat dealer or any machine shop, so I figure what I dont use I will have for future and if its a complete wash then yes new unit will be ordered lol. I have worked out a agreement that i will get 100 percent refund if I buy a new unit lol, wonder why haha, I am sure at the least the seal and bearings are kaput and if not they're getting changed any ways, I have had harder tasks at sea (I think)???
on a different note does anyone know where I can buy a set of heads for a 77v D8K its got a turbo charged D342 on it, I sent the heads in that were on it to get checked and both sm cracks, (I figured a new turbo, fuel system and other improvements warranted an inspection) hate it when i am right every once in a while. ill ck on the dozer forum i just figured i try here to thank you, oh im looking to buy yesterday lol
CAT reman, or send yours to: http://www.dieselcastwelding.com/
Being that far out, you best buy an exch final drive, inspect the drive motor shaft too. Likely the cheapest if you need to fly everything. Later Bob
That thought crossed my mind too ........ at least you get a warranty with it. Well you do as long as you put oil in it that is ......
The wherring noise of doom is usualy the result of a little gear shaft snapped through just behind the front plate with the oil plugs in, I had 1 making this noise on Tuesday on a Doosan, if the hub is scrap as the Doosan 1 was dont forget to undo the rim before you pop out the drive unit from the Carbody, they can stick in the frame some so it helps to dig them free with another excavator, on the D8K with cracked heads you might want to strip out the oil coolers and rod the water tubes through, and possibly check the rad for flow both water and air, then check on the shut down from hot method used by the driver, it should take around 15 min's to cool down a hot motor good enough for shut down on a D8H/K. tctractors
hello, well I took time of the landing craft to play wrench head lol so I dug in to the final drive, wasn't what I expected, I think that a load of salt water got in to the unit and who knows what else, sure was not fluids grrrr! I removed the first part and cleaned up the mess, I found no metal ground up no broken anything yet, however I have questions here is some of what I found,
I find no broken teeth and see no signs of any metal running through this set, the splines on the shaft were fine there was so much build up though was crazzzzy
the d8k I scored a set of heads and just had them dipped and am rebuilding, the oil coolers was looked at and the water tubes I replaced and actually went a size up,n I also am replacing the fuel rack. there was a ton of corrosion, so it basically is brand new from heads up, one thing I am in search of is a glow plug rack, nc machine is looking to
Unless you're planning to sell that machine soon, I would vote for the reman unit. Everything in there has suffered damage, even though it might still be complete and going around.
I wish I could wait that long for a re man unit, I have a major fuel haul coming up and need it, I have no choice but to re build it I have the supplys en route from nc machinery. The places I checked with all said 4 to 6 wks I got two friggen bummer!
Go to the inside and pull the travel motor off. Is the output shaft of the motor broken..?
well this looks absolutely lovely not! gotta pull the rest of the pump tomorrow after I get a lg set allen head sockets sent on plane grrrr I really wish I could just throw a remand in 4
If I were you I would save your time and start looking for a new or good used final drive. If you manage to get it completely stripped down you will probably find that the ramps for the duo-cone seals are gone. They can be reclaimed by a good machine shop but combined with the rest of the damage I think you will find that this is BER. (Beyond Economical Repair) Remember to check your final drive oil regularly, boys and girls.
OH NOOOO another case of those pesky little grease mites now they are developing a taste for gear oil. the only way to exterminate them is to feed them regularly.
yeah for sure, guess i gotta do it myself, ive already started a 100% all round service on every piece of machinery. I appreciate everyones input. I wonder if anyone knows a good dealer for a reman final I am beginning to think I am going to need it, nc machine I am sure can get it along with a couple qts of blood and a finger or toe!
Your dealer will only offer you a new one, there is no Reman in the Cat system. Surely one of our US-based members can recommend you some places to try for a used or rebuilt final drive..? It's a 320 FFS, there must be a million & one of them kicking about ........
If a 320B is the same , which I think it is , I have a used one here in Slave Lake , Alberta that you can have for $2000 CDN complete w motor Was from a delimber that just sat on the road all of its life 1-780-849-0767
$2k Canadian, that's about a buck-fifty in Yankee bills innit? Not to rub salt in the wound....
On the face of it a B Final Drive is a different Part Number from one for a C. Do you have a Serial Number of the machine it came off..?
this is what I got and I will look at the drive its self and see if there is additional numbers, I am going to pull the rest of the unit out today and finish cleaning it up
I was asking "logsrus" (post #41) who is offering a 320B Final Drive what machine Serial Number the unit came off. I already know what your final drive Part Number is because you posted a photo of the S/N plate earlier.
oh I see sorry, appreciate all your help
It'll be later today but I'll get it
Try Googling "Caterpillar 227-6035 Final Drive". That's the correct Part Number for your machine. I found 5 of them on tractor-part.com http://www.tractor-part.com/parts/?q=227-6035 .........and more on Rock & Dirt .... http://www.rockanddirt.com/parts-for-sale/CAT/227-6035
S/n 9js00306 2000 320b
I think the tag is the drive motor numbers. Later Bob
The final drives may interchange as complete units but they are different Part Numbers. 9JS00306 is a 114-1484 (updates to 227-6948), PAB01604 is a 227-6035. I tried comparing the 227-6948 to 227-6035 and pretty much every individual part that makes up the unit is different. Even the travel motors are different Part Numbers - 209-5992 vs 209-5994. The strange thing is that the sprockets are the same. It could be that maybe the final drives are different ratios. On the face of it I am of the opinion that the 114-1484 would not be suitable to fit on a 320C of PAB S/N prefix unless someone says different. Bob, the tag is the travel counterbalance valve, one of the few common parts between the 2 machines.
Let me know if you find out anthing different
You would have to consult with the sellers for confirmation but if you run part number 227-6035 the other two part numbers come up as alternates. I would suggest Brikers, they've been at this a long time and should know what works and what doesn't, and they show rebuilts on hand should you decide to take that road. If they will bolt in and connect up, you might be time and money ahead to take both of them, after having a local unbiased third party pop the lids for evaluation? Pity they don't have Hollander interchange manuals for heavy equipment, yeah? "Part B is not a substitute for part A but will in fact install and work correctly"
Was the delimber a high walker or a standard carbody? I remember hearing that the logger finals were different from the standard excavator units.
Standard ex
We have stock on 227-6035 Haven't been able to visit the forum lately and keep up with helping people. If you're still looking, we can help. Click link below | | V