I am looking at a 951c loader it has a rebuilt engine with about 10 hours on it since rebuild runs good but it has been sitting outside and not run for about 4 years it moves but I checked the trans and the rear end levels there is milky oil in it if I just change it will that be good enough or will there be problems with the trans tracks about 60% thanks jim
I am a newbie here I would appreciate your expertise will the water in the trans oil cause the clutches to dissolve or cause other problems or will flushing out extend its life for a while it is going to be used on the farm thanks jim
I purchased an old 941 a year ago & once the weather warmed up we changed the torque/trans/bevel gear compartments with fresh oil & changed the 2 filters, one on the transmission I think it was, down under the machine, one under the seat above the bevel gear compartment & also cleaned the mesh screen under the seat too. I don't remember if there was a magnetic separator or not on the 941, but if there was we did it too. One of the members recommended putting just a cheap #10 oil in those compartments, running it for 1/2 hr & dropping it again. I did not do that, as I had put the T04 (expensive) oil in it. I just checked the screen again yesterday under the seat & it was still good. If you buy it, an oil/filter change would definitely be in order. The final drives are two separate compartments on the back of the machine where you see the 2 level plugs. They are not common to the transmission/ bevel gear compartment.
metalman55 thanks for the reply I was in a hurry to get some info on the machine had to decide if I was going to buy it today runs good only thing was at low speed in 1 st in forward or reverse it moved fine gave it half throttle put in second moved then stopped until you gave it more throttle same in third I have a mechanic friend who works on my bosses equipment called him he said get it up to operating temp and try I did and it came out of it a little ran in all gears only thing was when I would idle down I could here some scavenging of a pump any ideas out there what steering clutches came out of being stiff and not turning hydraulics work good no leaks so I bought it betting on an oil change and filters hope it doesn't need a converter or trans
When bought my 951-C, I changed the trans oil, hydraulic oil and replaced all filters. There is a filter and screen behind and just below the seat. My transmission oil was slightly milky, I did not flush anything. Changed engine oil and filter too. The old 951-C won't require expensive oils. I get mine at tractor supply. like Metalman says, check those finals. There may be some condensation there but I don't worry too much about condensation. If you have very much condensation it will show up as rust and water droplets on the bottom of the filler cap. I would let the engine warm up enough for the thermostat to open and then carefully and slowly remove the radiator cap. Throttle up the engine and make sure that there are no air bubbles indicating a blown head gasket or cracked head. Simple check, but could reveal a problem. Check out my thread on this forum for a lot of information on the machine. 951-C in my sights.
When I purchased my 941, it turns out that the previous owner had the wrong oil in the trans/ bevel gear compartments & as a result it was not always staying in gear. If I remember correctly when going forward in 2nd gear it would sometimes quit driving; just pop it out of gear & back in & away it went. Also, the steering clutches were not releasing correctly when turning; brakes would come on & the steering clutches were still engaged. Once the transmission/ torque/bevel gear compartments were drained, filters changed, screen cleaned etc. it worked almost perfectly. As recommended to me by one of the other members, you may want to do a flush with some #10, then fill with the permanent oil if it is feasible for you. Up in cold winters of Wisconsin, you may want to consider #20 oil for the trans/bevel gear compartment, if you do not work the machine real hard in hot weather. Finals are # 50 I believe.
thank you metalman 55 and nitelite I appreciate your replies the decision to buy it feels better now will have my friend give it a physical will let you know what he finds the man I bought it from bought it new in 1974 he is selling all his equipment he has another 951c 4300 hrs and a 955 k? 11000 hrs thanks again jim
nitelite the engine has a new head new exhaust from the manifold up all new main and rod bearing pistons and liners and what ever else it needed the bevel gear was two different color oils top couple inches is milky rest was like caramel until I moved it trans in second and third would engage then stall then shift to neutral and engaged again too all the gauges ran in the green
My 951-C is strong in first gear at half throttle but she needs 3/4 to full throttle to run in 2nd or third gears. Also, it does much better when warmed up.
thanks for help here I have one more question the tracks are rusted the one track is about a foot above the top roller I plan on using drain oil on it to see if it will loosen up
I put a set of donor tracks on my D4D over a year ago, that had been sitting a few years & there were a few stiff links on it. I have not used it much this year & one joint still has a "hump" on it as it travels along the top. It will not hurt to put the oil to it. Some say running in water will help free it up too.
Water will work quicker than oil, seems to seep thru the rust bind easier. My old AC had the incorrect oil in the trans when I got it. Called for Type A ATF in severe cold weather, previous owner used dexron until he cooked the old transmission not knowing 10w was preferred. Had lots of moisture built up in mine as well, just changed fluids, filters and ran it hard to basically boil it away. No issues anymore.
thanks for all the help changed fluids all were pretty cruddy filters were water logged runs good now took a bit for the trans to shift in all gears now to get the tracks loose with drain oil after that it gets a road trip to it new home at my dads farm
first off I would like to wish all here a belated merry Christmas and a prosperous new year I have gotten a repair manual for my loader I was looking at the track adjustment section and it says you are supposed to use 30 wt oil to adjust track tension is that true I know on the new machines we use regular grease to adjust the tracks or is that just not done any more thanks jim
Use your grease gun, not 30 wt oil.
well I have a problem with my loader it over heats start pushing hard now tonight my son looked in the radiator it looks like chocolate colored coolant when you rev it up it burps up the fill neck any ideas can I run this without the thermostat till it gets cold it had new heads put on but it sat a long time after it was rebuilt could the head gasket bad thanks jim
Check for coolant in the oil. Don't run it if it has coolant in the oil and drain the oil. Antifreeze can be very harmful in the oil pan.
If has oil in the radiator have lost seals on the oil cooler bundle on the side of the engine or cracked the bundle solder joint. Worst case scenario is a internal crack in a head or the block feeding oil gallery lube to the water jacket but that is extreme A head gasket will put coolant in the oil not oil in coolant.
It has no coolant in the engine oil the top tank on the radiator is real rusty I thought maybe the color came from that now that im using it it is cleaning the loose rust I am losing no engine oil oil still looks new i thought my be the thermostat it sat for about 10 years after it was over hauled the mechanic said the head was new can a head gasket go bad just sitting thanks jim
The engine was overhauled yet the top tank of the radiator is full of rust.? Has it got antifreeze/coolant in it.? I think someone has been telling you porkies ……….
If just rust flush both the engine and radiator then replace with a coolant mix as has rust inhibitors in it You do yourself and the machine no favors running straight water
Am I reading this right this machine had the engine rebuilt but has not been uses for 10 years and only has water in it? Was it sitting for those ten years in Wisconsin? Was there water in the cooling system all that time? Or did someone test run it with water then attempt to drain it? Seems like there is much more info not being shared!
If it is oil in radiator could be the trans cooler since it did have water in the trans at 1st.
it had coolant in it when it sat we added new coolant when I got it the tank top on the radiator is original being cast metal it has rust scale the guy who rebuilt the engine said the engine was cleaned he is a personal friend of mine he works on our equipment was a factory cat mechanic it still has coolant in it was going to put water in it run it then drain it and see what comes out he said he never touched the radiator when overhauled just added new coolant
If you are making compression in the radiator, a water flush isn't going to do much good. Nor is running without a thermostat going to help the overheating problems. When you say the oil is clean, is it clean on the dipstick? or did you crack the drain plug and check for antifreeze there?
Compression in the water system likely a Cup Seal in the Head or Head gasket.
thank you for all the help im try to come up with an answer on what to look for before I have to pay to have it fixed if its something I can fix what do you mean by a cup seal and how do you find it I don't hear a miss in the engine
One of the guys with access to SIS can tell on the engine if is a PC series or DI, Pre Chamber or Direct Injection. Prechambers(often called Cups) are screwed into the head and the nozzles direct fuel into them rather than directly into the cylinder. DI engines are Direct Injection, the nozzles are different and the injector Nozzle cup is a drive in swedged in place cooling system for the nozzle, that is surrounded with coolant. Will need a S/N to determine which.
951c 86j3206 3304 78p7871 1v3082 2p6779 these are all the numbers on the plate on the side of the machine so if it would be the cup would it be just fuel getting in the radiator
According to all the Serial Numbers given, and if the engine is the original (78P7871) it's listed as a 3304 with precombustion chambers.
Pre chambers do not seal fuel in they seal coolant against compression and provide a pre combustion chamber for fuel to start burning in prior to seeing the piston crown.
so how does it leak does compression move the cup or is it something just installed wrong does the head have to come off or can it be done with the head on is a lot of coolant getting in to the engine excuse all my stupid questions my knowledge is in working on heavy trucks i do the basics on heavy equipment I rebuilt the rams on this machine im just a little intimidated working on these engines their a lot different than a mack engine
Precups once nozzles are removed are then removed using a Spline Socket, O-ring in upper head land and a crush seal on the threaded end at the Engine cylinder side of the head. The seal fails, cup is loose(Are torqued as well timed) will need a service manual as to specs and installation/removal. Coolant will have to be drained, there will be residual in the head when pull these so will end up with some in the cylinder that will have to be purged. Flush the system first, get all that sludge out that you can radiator and engine, perform multiple times until water remains basically clear then start the engine and see if it still burps on raising rpm. Then and only then would I be considering entering the engine as to finding faults.
Now I have to pull the radiator on my 951. My kids started to take it out with out me. pulled the fan and shroud Now if I remember right all you have to do is pull the hoses and cooler lines. Then take some bolts out of the body on the lower shroud right What holds the radiator in the grill . Anything else am I forgetting . thanks in advance
Well this machine is too old for SIS to give directions on removal but I can see that there are upper and lower mounts to the radiator like many of that vintage. See item #2 circled in red there will be four bolts, two each side, that go through the upper flange and through bar #22 that hold the top of radiator. Then there are mounts at the bottom back side of radiator with two bolts in each circled in red in picture below. May need to remove the lower water pipe to access the ones on the left if it is not already out! Not sure if you can take just the bolts going up from the bottom of those mounts or the two bolts from the back side of each.
Would you use off road equipment gaskets between the upper and lower tanks. number 9 and ten . Any one have any pictures of the top and lower tank off of the core. to see how the core and the tanks seal Are off roads head gaskets any good or should I used cat
Well it has been a while but fixed my overheating problem. The tubes in the radiator were 3/4 plugged. I ran the fuel dip stick down each tube from the top and the bottom and flushed it out. Clean as a whistle. Put the tank on and installed. Pulled the head a checked for cracks .None. Put the head on and put the pushrods in the same valves. Then started it up. The number one exhaust valve pushrod was about 1/4 in loose. So the exhaust gases were not all leaving the cylinder so that's how the engine got that hot. Runs at the normal range now. But i have a new problem is the trans is leaking oil out of the front seal. It leaked about a half gallon in about 4 or 5 hours. Can the seal get fixed in the machine. Can you just take the pucks out and just pull the coupler. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Jim
10/4 that's the way I remember
Will be head rushed with blood flow as stand on head but seal can be accomplished as noted. When go to reassemble do a run out check for engine/trans alignment and inspect all your mounts.
What do you do when the transmission oil is creamy looking. I changed it 4 or 5 years ago Don't think i have 25 hours on the machine since changing it. Is it leaking rain water into it somewhere. or is it just condensation.
Condensation shouldn't cause the oil to get real milky. It's a good idea to run the machine to let the oil warm up occasionally even if you're not doing any real work with it. Look for places where water or snow could be standing and working it's way in.