I'm back looking to upgrade my dump truck situation, having a hard time deciding which direction to go. I currently have a 1980 F600 gas 429, 5+2 with a 10' dump (23K gwvr) and a 1988 F700 7.8 diesel 5+2 10' dump (30K gvwr). Would like to sell one or both of those trucks and upgrade to something newer and in better condition. I'm looking at either buying or building a nice single axle dump (33K gvwr) and sell both current trucks, or buy a tandem and keep one s/a dump for small jobs. I don't need a tandem for a lot of jobs, but sometimes it would be nice. Previously I had never considered a tandem because there are(were?) a lot of guys around with them that hauled pretty cheap. I'm not sure why, but it's gone from having to wait a day or two to get material hauled to waiting a week or two, which sometimes throws a wrench in my project plans. I'm primarily looking at trucks made between 1995-2003, with IH being my first pick, but may consider Ford/Chevy although the parts situation isn't as good. I'm not particularity interest in the 'high end' brands and the premium prices they bring, I just don't use it enough to justify the cost. Budget is $25K, but may stretch it to 30K if I have to. I've been casually looking for a couple years and it's very hard to find exactly what I want. For a single axle the ideal truck would be a 4700-4900 IH, DT466, MT653 or 7-speed, 33K, air brakes, deep gears and 10-12' gravel bed, PTO driven pump, pintle hitch, air ride seat, A/C, cruise, all the options, etc. Tandem I'm looking for something fairly short wheelbase, 14-15' gravel bed with shorter sides(sometimes load with a mini or ctl), barn door tailgate, 300+hp, 8LL, walking beam tandems, prefer full lockup on the drives, etc. I'd tag it at 54K and haul whatever was legal. I know I'm giving up weight capacity (due to bridge law) with a shorter truck, but maneuverability is also very important for the work I do. I'm fairly well versed on the medium duty trucks, but not as much on the tandems. What engines should I look for or stay away from in that vintage IH/Ford/Chevy? Seen some with L10 cummins, IH DT530, 3116 Cat, etc. I know these were all lower end engine, what miles/hours is too much? Not looking to burn up the road, but do need reliable and economical to operate. What about transmissions? 8LL is my preference, but also finding some with 9spd road ranger, 10spd Eaton, etc. My main concern is having a deep enough first and reverse for tough off-road conditions. Any advice on the general situation of tandem vs single axle? I would probably use the single axle more and I could buy/build a nicer one for the money. However, my time is also worth something and making half the number of trips is appealing. My biggest concern with a tandem is lack of maneuverability, high sides on the bed, and increased cost of ownership. Thanks in advance for any advice.
I've got a Mack R with a 300L engine, camelback suspension 9 speed, and it had a hard life before we got it, but that truck is tough as nails. High torque at low RPM's. Steel cab, simple gauges, and a million of them out there so used parts are plentiful. Might be tough finding rust free in your area. I'm not a fan of IH. I have a 8100 which is the same cab as the 47-4900 and I think its cheap, the dash module is always blanking out, and I think its kind of a big pile of crap. But one of my guys loves the stupid thing, it does turn short. Mine has a M11 and that's a pretty good smaller motor. There's always pete and KW, western star. Which is nice if its older because similar to the mack- there's a lot of them out there and you have some factory support. If you're going that far, just as well have big engine too. 3406/N14/ 12.7 detroit. I'd go tandem, if you want smaller motor go M11 cummins or Mack. Camelback or spring over walking beam/ chalmers for off road bad conditions. Pick a short sided bed. Find a old concrete truck with a worn out barrel and you'd have double or heavy frame, deep gears, usually small motor and heavy front axle and a off road rear suspension Everything will have a layer of concrete stuck to it on the rear, but you can't have everything.
We recently picked up a 1989 IH tandem with L10 & 8LL, walking beams/double frame & interaxle. Rear diffs 4.xx, super low overall gearing and really nice shifting. Excellent traction/articulation of axles, only limited acreage use so far but really liking the setup. Slow on hwy, but I am fine with that for our use (Off road site truck primarily) Way better traction (side by side test on snow/ice) than our IH9200 single axle with full diff lock.… The turning radius doesn’t seem great, compared to the single axles (has wide base 285’s on front). 198” wheelbase/16’ dump box. Will have a better review in a month when we take it onsite…. (Steep, narrow and muddy 10km access road will be a good test). Totally new to a tandem so just my initial observations!
Similar truck here. 1990 Mack R with 400hp E7 and 12 speed. Gave 15k for it a few years ago.
Does anyone have a DT530/8LL combo tandem? I’ve seen probably 4-6 of those on marketplace in the last few months: spring suspension, 14’-15’ gravel tandems. I wonder how they would do with 4:56 or similar rear ratios & a 300hp/1000ft. lb DT530. A neighbor has a L10/13 speed General 15’ tandem & it has served him well. Most of the L10s of that era were 280-300 hp.
Something nice like that is now a $25-35k truck.
My little Ford is a 12' ( at the top) bed and 8 CY struck without boards. The truck gets around in tight quarters. Put tall boards on it and it can heap 10. With short boards I can reach into it with the 35 mini and dip out rock. If that is handy (think bedding in tight worksites), weld on some hazlocks. Sometimes less bed is more, and certainly when you have a shorter wheelbase. 55' bumper to bumper with the 20 ton tilt. I put that forth because I remember how much you stressed the tight roads and conditions you work. Look for a shorter tandem is my opinion. Frequently they come out of municipal fleets and are in really good shape.
Right, our L10 is 285hp
Those do well for tandem work with the right rear’s & transmission. Certainly more economical for someone that just supports himself & is not looking to stay in the road for others.
Our 3406B has been getting spendy with repair work, I would look at something else too.
Another of my aversion to buying a tandem has been not wanting to work on anything bigger/heavier than I currently have. I keep telling myself it's all in my head though, the tires, brakes, axles, drive line is basically the same size as my class 7 trucks, just an extra axle and a little bigger engine/trans. I looked at a '96 Ford L9000 last night, real clean truck, ran and drove great but a little bigger than I wanted. Was a 208" wb, 17' bed, floats on the front, dual steering boxes, L10 300hp, 9 spd Road Ranger trans, 485K mi. Reason I went and looked at it was I thought it had an 8LL and full locking rears based on the sellers description, turns out it had neither (came from the factory with lockers, someone had swapped the axles at some point.) He was asking $25k, I offered $18k but he wouldn't take it. Probably best, not exactly what I need. Also found a '99 IH S2554?, shorter wheelbase, 13' bed, N14 370hp, 9spd, supposedly only 150K mi, but due to the IH gauge cluster problems I never trust the mileage or hours. He was asking $30K, but there were two buyers already scheduled to look at it, if it doesn't sell I might take a look. I'm still looking at single axle trucks as well, If I'm being honest with myself I probably need both a tandem and a s/a dump. It might come down to which ever I find a suitable truck first, then get the other later. Maybe I'm just too picky, or want something unique, but it seems to take forever to find exactly what I want in a medium or heavy truck. Looked for almost 2yrs before I found my flat bed IH 4700 that I recently bought, and it was only about 90% what I wanted, had to build/modify the rest.
Yup all of those sound similar to what I'm looking for, mostly short hauls 10-20mi or less, off road/site work, and durable/economical. I think a 14' bed is the longest I'd consider. I'd like the bigger engines, but I'm afraid with 11r22.5's they'd be too heavy on the front end for soft conditions. There's another IH I might go look at, another S2554 but with a DT530/10spd. Got a nice paint job but may have had a plow on it in a past life which would probably take it out of contention. If I drive an hour or two south I can find plenty of NC, SC, GA clean southern trucks that haven't seen salt, no need to buy a rust bucket from around here.
Might look to see if there's any county trucks for sale or auction. They don't overload them so they are often smaller dump beds which can give that feel of a single axle dump but with more capacity.
Floats on the front are the way to go.
New to tandems (have always had single axles) but noticing the tandem with floats (double steering boxes) definitely doesn’t sink into the mud like the single axle (C12, narrow 24.5’s) truck… Was pretty surprised at the difference; we are in ’mud season’ here right now.
Two locally bought single axle dumps with L10's. Both ended up buying three axle dumps three years later. I know both guys/told them not to at the time, ended up paying a bunch more now in todays market. Your looking for what doesn't exist in that money bracket. Screw the 300 horse power idea, you will only be looking wanting more down the road. to get that kind of power with less weight it needs to be a C12 or 13. which puts it in a higher cost bracket. It's not necessarily the age, there are good older trucks out there, it's stepping up to the plate buying 400 plus hp truck with heavy rear drives/suspension. No harder to work on than a single. But what makes me wonder is all this tight work area you have, I don't know a contractor that doesn't doing residential. * another dump truck thread.
All very valid points, but off road performance is as important to me as on road, hence wanting a lighter/shorter truck, at the expense of a smaller engine. My biggest problem with the quarry and some of the others I've had trucking for me is they aren't willing to get into the spots I need. They are all running tri/quad/quint axle trucks that are very much highway trucks, if it's the slight bit steep, soft, tight access, "nope, can't do it." That's the whole reason I've had to do several jobs of ridiculous proportion hauling on my single axle. Like hauling in 900 tons of base rock for rebuilding an old road up in the mountains. Quarry brought the first load and dumped it in a pile at the end of the state road. I'm 90% sure a tandem setup the way I want would have done that job. On the other hand, I'm still trying to decide if spending $25K-$30K+ on a tandem is even smart business sense. I only put 10K mi on my single axle in the past year and a half, tandem would likely get even less. Still looking at all the options, went and looked at a single axle IH4700 this morning, looked great in the pics, not quite as good in person, but wandered all over the road, idled rough and died on me on the test drive. Got it back and we hooked up the computer to it, truck had 27,000hrs on it! Who knows if it had been rebuilt or not, but I decided to pass. They were asking $24K, are you kidding me? lol
Nice truck. Usually isn't volume but weight that maxes out. Most our trucks at work max out at 12 yards, couple can do 15 (20k steer axle)
Years ago I had a 2554 IH 33K L-10 with a 9 speed. Great truck, problem is it simply wasn't big enough. I had a 14' low pro bed on it. Sweet bed. You can always haul less with a tandem, but you can only haull so much with a single axle. Yet my costs to run it were not really any cheaper except for tires, but since every job took more trips than it needed to, not sure I saved any money there either. Lesson learned from me was don't waste the time on a single axle. Your mileage may vary but, in retrospect it is hard to justify why a single axle makes more sense. It took me owning one for the point to be driven home. Another truck I had was a County truck from somewhere, another IH series 2500 tandem with a L-10 and 9 speed. Really hard to find simpler trucks than those older IH trucks. Ran awesome, rough as hell, but it did the work. I have an 8LL in a Water Truck, since no one spends a bunch of time in it, that gear pattern throws everyone for a time, if your used to a typical H pattern, but the low speeds are nice. I think the 9 speed was just fine. If you can find an IH truck with lockers would be ideal. A lot of those County trucks that still come up for sale like that, and they can be had at a decent price.
Try https://www.govdeals.com/search?kWord=tandem Most add 12.5% buyer's premium (cost to buyer). Neill
Most around here run a tandem with a low profile 12 yard box just for that reason. It's a problem with hiring it hauled, most outfits are running a quad and yes those are not work a **** in soft conditions. Most around here run a standard 3 axle dump with floats on the front. They seem to get enough hauled and if they do have a drop they just don't load to max. But they have a rig that can pull a tag trailer easily. Last year I looked at a 1992 KW 900 with a 425 3406 Cat 13 spd and two spd rears with a drop and a newer 12 yard box, had 46,000 lb Hendrickson spring beam. I found a few smaller issues, some brakes and the suspension needed rebushed. He bought it for $28,000 had a total of 34 in it when done. He is so happy not to have a single axle any more and he can get what he needs done when he needs it.
My buddy had one shortly after they were introduced and had nothing but trouble with it. Some electrical gremilin would make it shut down randomly and not restart. After two years of trips to the dealer and several lost loads of asphalt IH bought the truck back.
Counting miles on a dump truck I think only has a limited amount of value. If you need the truck to get the jobs done to make money, even under 10K a year, its a pretty important piece of gear. A single axle is not really any more manuverable than a tandem. I would get that single axle mistake out of your mind. My next truck will be a two drop, truck with a demo bed. I kind feel that with a four axle and demo body, I can only haul about 11-12 yards. I hire a lot of trucks for that reason and lack of help being another. The 2 drop trucks can haul about 18 yards, they are not too bad off road and in some ways presents a similar to the single axle issue with a one drop truck. Going bigger allows more cy per load, drop tires are not that expensive (relative). These can be a little harder to manuever but the productivity increase in more yards per load with about the same amount of diesel fuel, simply makes sense to me. I love my MACK. That Camel Back suspension I think is simply awesome in my opinion, simple in construction, smooth enough. I have been checking truck trader off and on to find exactly what I wont. I would like my next one to be a MACK as well. Problem is out west, Mack isn't as popular, and I am aways from a Mack dealer, but I sure love the trucks.
Well, the decision has been made, went back and bought that Ford L9000 I looked at over the weekend. He came down on price to what I thought was a pretty good deal. Not 'exactly' what I was looking for but close, and just too nice of a truck to pass up. Runs and drives beautifully, rides great, and I think the power will be adequate. Drove it 2.5hrs home on the interstate last night and it cruised along at 67mph @ 2000rpms, pulled Fancy Gap pass on I77 in high gear. I'll start another thread on the truck when I get a chance, got a few small repairs/maintenance to do, then add a hitch, barn door conversion, tool boxes, new tires, etc. 1997 L9000, L10 Cummins, 9spd Road Ranger, belly frame, walking tandems, dual steering boxes, 385 floats on the front, clean, tight, completely rust free, gave $21K for it:
We also do a lot of off road….walking beams/spring suspension were a must have. Looks to me you made a great purchase, Good luck!
If you're handy with repairs it's a really good purchase to me. L10 with a 9 LL is a really good combination but you are going to hate it loaded. Just be content with 50 mph and it won't matter anymore
I think it will serve my needs well. The bar is set pretty low, right now I’m often grossing 30-40k (with a trailer) with 185-190hp. This new truck with 300hp is registered at 54k, by my math thats as good or better power/weight ratio. We’ll see when we get a load on it, before that though I’m brushing up on my shifting. It’s been 20+ yrs since I’ve driven a tandem/non-syncro tranny and my shifting skills have gotten a bit rusty, definitely humbled me a little lol.
Congrats. I still fudge things up now and then.
Ordered a set of good used Ford shop manuals for the truck, trying to find one for the engine. Not sure which one, seeing manuals for L10 Command, L10 STC, L10 Celect, etc?
Celect is the electronic engine (it will have a little computer box on the drivers side and electronic injectors. I don't know what the "command" is.
1997--should be a celect.
Does it have a 9LL or a regular 9 speed. The 9LL was designed mostly for ready mix trucks, It's got some funny low speed gears like for unloading concrete on the go, like curbs etc? FWD
There are a multitude of 9 speed gear ratios, with a range of ending prefix letters-A-B-H plus overdrive LL's. Below is a ratio chart, if your transmission still has a model tag check it and compare against chart. * Eaton Fuller 9 Speed Transmission Ratios - Global Transmission Supply Transmission ratio specs for Eaton Fuller 9 speed transmissions. Includes transmission gear ratios, weights, length & PTO speed. Call 877-776-4600 for assistance. www.globaltransmissionsupply.com
I think (for what it matters) you made the right choice, certainly better than any single axle truck.
Have almost the same year and spec'd L9000 except mine has an Allison auto. Slow as hell but it's a great site truck as it's built like a brick **** house. Won it with a minimum bid on Govdeals. Forgot I placed the bid until the email notification was in the inbox saying Congratulations.
Found a set of Cummins shop manuals for the L10 on ebay, actually covered all the models I listed. Includes both a shop manual and a troubleshooting/electrical diagnoses manual. So I've been mistakenly calling the truck a L9000, (as does everyone selling them) turns out it's an LT9000. The truck is at the glass shop for a new windshield and the one they ordered didn't fit. Apparently the LT/LTL take a different, shorter, and gasketed vs glued windshield than the L9000. Ran the vin, sure enough LT9000. I'm sure some of you probably caught that mistake just by looking at the picture The transmission is a 9spd Road Ranger, not a 9LL. There is only one selection in the low gear vs 2 or 3 in the 8LL/9LL. Both Low gear and reverse are pretty deep however, should be good for my needs. When I get the truck back I'll post up a new thread with all the specs, pics and repairs/modifications.
If by chance you run across a hulk 9000-and buy it cheap you better do so--for parts.
So I've heard, especially cab parts. Can't be any worse than my 1980 F600 and 1988 F700. A few parts somewhat interchange with the pickups on those, but the hyd brake, suspension and axle parts on the F600 are pretty dang hard to find. What parts I can get are just the cheapest Chinese garbage you've ever seen, not even worth the box they came in. Maybe at least the engine, drivetrain, and brake parts on this new truck are a little more universal....I hope.
Same dash parts in some respects as a pickup--ford did that allot, the one thing I didn't like about fords. As far as drivetrain and brake that's not really a issue. I have in the past just made some new dash panels and separated the wiring out to circuits with toggle switches.
Not many pickup parts are interchangeable on my L9000. Like TS said drivetrain, suspension and the like are easy to find. Ford specific parts are hard to get. We had to fit up a radiator overflow tank because we found 2 - 1 aftermarket aluminum that was $1500 (IIRC it was expensive) or a used plastic one for $700. MG is the dash in good shape? Also the factory A/C sucks.
Yeah the interior is in excellent shape, needs nothing. Truck has A/C but the belt is off the compressor, will look into that at some point but not a priority in our climate.
L9000 is a smaller truck. Gvwr of around 15 tons Lt9000 is around 30 tons Was also LL, LTL, LTA, LA and maybe a few more I can't remember
This would not be the case. I have an l9000 I'm sitting in right now. 40k rear axles 18K front axle. It's a 1992 with a 3406 cat. After that loader wiped the nose off of it, The one part I can't find is headlight bezels so I'm going to make my own.
Depends on years-even the plunger headlight switch was used on some. Heater controls also. Later versions may have been updated, first year of the L cab was 1970.
Yep. My L9000 is the same 18K front, 40K rears.
With Ford and depending on who the sales person was and who was spec'ing-that's correct it could be just the L prefix and still have heavy specs. Some of it was in hood length for WB based on it's use because the L series was extremely popular with inner city use because of one huge item--Turning radius--Ford had it over most everyone in that department.
No doubt. It is kinda sporty that way. Perfect truck for short WB and box and tight jobs. I take it into the job and back all over to keep the bedding material close to me.
Other than my L9000 being slow and underpowered it's a great truck to from the cab perspective. Easy in and out with great visibility. I've thought about dropping a Detroit and HD 4560 in it, then it would be a perfect truck IMO anyways.
My truck is an "L" 9000, factory triaxle spec'd at 74,000lbs.
The DT530 P pump or E version?
Just doing a little pondering while I wait to the get truck on the road, trying to roughly figure how much I can haul. Virginia law is 20K on steer, 34K for tandems, but must follow bridge formula also. We can buy a 5% overload permit. Any guess on empty weight ? Actual wheelbase is 210" to center of tandems, maybe 236" for bridge formula? 16K steer axle (tires good for 9900lbs ea), 40K rears, GVWR 56,600 I think the bridge formula is going to be my limiting factor, free online calculator says I can gross 51,000, does that sound about right?
Probably mid twenties tare weight.
I drove a ford dump truck with a 3208, I think it was 22k empty, you will be a little more. If there is a grain elevator you can weigh it
Ours with the 3406 and a fuel box and fuel tank, steel bed is right around 25K.
25K was my best guess, L10 is a little lighter than others but the 385 floats and 16' steel bed add a little. By the time I add the hitch and tool boxes that'll probably add another 500-1000lbs. I'm guessing I'm going to have to buy the 5% overload permit to legally haul 14-15 tons. If I have the time I'll run by the quarry or the dump and weigh it next week.
Fun times! Just roll on, look at the light weight and haul a paying load with it and don't look back. Good move on your part. All I do after that is see where the weight wants to be. I have the 34K rule so depending on where that 16' box sits on the axles would set the load point for me. I run my truck at 48K. If I get a load of Pea I can raise the box up and make it level, and it is 14/34 when stuff is even in the box. If I want to load more, then the typical corner bucket load takes care of that for me. The bump right behind the tower. EDIT: you have the same 34K tandem rule in Virginia. I looked at your truck picture. center/forward will probably work. If you are concerned about manueverability and digging in, don't try to move much more than 12 tons with it. The front turns into a couple of Pizza Cutters. Even if you drop a tag, when you come off road you pick it and there's the Pizza slicers again.
These L series Fords came with 110,000 psi tensile strength frames as standard for mixers & dumps. Allot of changes happened in the 1978 models as far as GVWR and stayed that way for a long time. Ratings ran as high as 82,000 depending on axle, suspension spec'd. Plus the engine options were vast for that time, NTC 270,290,300,350,400. KT450,KTA525, KTA600, All Detroit two strokes, Cat 3406A's & B's in a variety of HP. And any gear box you wanted. Standard steer axles offered 16 & 20K. Twin steer boxes were optional in some cases. Drive axles rated up to 65,000 at the time.
This one's just shy of 22000 empty 20000 front 40 rears double frame end to end a c12 with a 13 speed. And 1/4 stainless in the floor of the bed
That's an really shiny and straight 312B . . .
That is a nice, well taken care of 321B. When were the B's produced late '90's into early 2000's? I bought a new 315CL in 2004 and it was a C model.
Maybe the picture was taken when it was still new!
I don't think they've had that dump truck that long--like maybe a year.
Photoshop. Someone stole truck designs from the future back in the 90s.
Tyler D4C is pretty smart.
The b is older then me I want to say it's a 94 we bought it and moreless restored it wasn't smashed up or anything really paint leaks fixed and wiring repair. We adder the thumb and hammer lines. It's a grey market. Found 100 yen in the cab
When i drug it home
Bought it 12-9 of 23
Just for anyone reading this thread in the future, link to the thread on the truck itself: HeavyEquipmentForums