Hello all, I know its a long shot, but there is lot of resources on this site. One of my final drives has failed, gear sets chipped up and shafts chipped up as well. Need bearing sets, seal kit, gears etc. Thought I would simply put a post out and see if anyone might have a complete used unit available or maybe some parts. Replacement components through the OEM are very pricey as we all know, so nothing to lose in starting here first. I have reached out too some of the larger players in the rebuild and parts groups, online etc... Very limited luck in that area.. Guessing this particular unit had minimal failures as most of repair / re-builders have nothing for these where they do have much for the units that tend to fail more often?? I guess?? More common machines, or maybe simply more of those were produced. Anyway, please keep me in mind if anyone has parts machine or the like and might consider parting with a good functional complete drive unit. Thank You, Nick Rochester, NH
If you have a list of Part Numbers that you need try calling Offroad Equipment www.offroadeq.com and ask them. They can usually supply at less than dealer prices.
Thank You for the link. I will get check in with that supplier.
Just a follow up on the parts search. Worked with the off road equipment folks to see what they may have been able to supply. Unfortunately, for the unit that I have, they were very limited on what was available, primarily some of the O rings was about it. Great folks to work with for sure, timely and very responsive. I can see where this group can be a great resource to check in with for anyone's needs. Still in the hunt for a complete final drive 148-4570, or any used parts potentially available. Working with Cat directly as well, they have a used parts contact that has also been very responsive, no "hits" for me as of this time. Again, if anyone has a parts machine and you might consider parting this aspect of the machine out. I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks, Nick
Here's a couple possibles if you haven't already been there: http://www.rockanddirt.com/parts-for-sale/CATERPILLAR/148-4570 http://gtengineparts.com/Final-Drive-Groups-For-Track-Type-Vehicl-11879
Have you tried these? All Listings Worldwide 1484570 QTY: 2 PA, US Updated: 8/03/2016 RP Equipment Phone: +1 888-409-8763 Send A Message 1484570 QTY: 1 CAT OH, US Updated: 15/02/2016 TAC Parts (Formerly Parts & Equipment) Phone: +1 540-354-5618 Send A Message 1484570 QTY: 2 FINAL DRIVE w/MOTOR NY, US Updated: 25/01/2016 ConEquip Parts & Equipment, LLC Phone: +1 716-708-4529 Send A Message
Thank You again CMark. I had contacted Con Equip prior with no luck at that time, I will reach out again. The additional 2 sources noted had not been found or contacted. Thank you for taking the time to assist me "again". Todd at my local area Cat dealer here in NH had run a search through his resources and as of earlier today, no hits. Economics dictate as can be imagined, rebuilding what I have may prove to be my best option, but we'll see what can be found first. Nick
Thank You lantaxco. R&D yes... GTE not as of yet, thank you for taking the time to assist me. Nick
Hello All, Cat 315bl 3AW02476 final drive rebuilding. Anyone have direct experience with the final drive gear housings? Inspection - go/ no go? Repairable? or Replace? One of the planetary gear bearings - failed, causing gears to fail and break, chewed up the housing. Assuming a replacement housing is in order. I have not cleaned it up yet as I did not want to make it worse than what it is if there is a chance of repairing? sandblasting with an aluminum oxide perhaps? Or maybe not even worth the time? Would appreciate any insight the forum has to offer. Pictures attached.
That housing is unfortunately completely Donald Ducked and there is no reconditioning procedure for damaged splines ....... only good as a boat anchor I'm afraid.
The plan of last resort would be to pressure wash, put some new planet gears in it, reassemble and send the machine to the closest Ritchie auction.
Hello Nige, Thank You for taking a look, I assumed that would be the reality of the situation. The head looks to be undamaged, however I am not experienced with these units. The head looks like it could be run over by a tank and not be affected. Any special areas I should be paying close attention to? As can be imagined with all the metal chips/filings/grindings in the unit, it did require using pullers to get the gears up thru the clogged splines. With it totally apart now, not seeing any visual concerns upon inspection. I would again appreciate your insight and any guidance you might offer on this topic. From an untrained eye, the hydraulic motor and its components, all looked in great condition. Again - from an untrained eye - that is... I have read everything I could find about these units in general. Resealing them, re bearing the units, etc.. I have learned allot on this forum, thanks to experienced and knowledgeable folks like yourself. I think I would be speaking for many in extending a huge thank you in appreciation for you and all that do jump in to assist all of us out here - that are just trying to get by with our iron. 90% of anything do with this particular model excavator is proprietary and there are no aftermarket parts as I have also learned in reaching out to many of the resources suggested. Buying a used drive may not put me any further ahead than I will be in rebuilding what I have, or so it seems. Nick - Rochester, NH
Lantraxco I guess that would be an option if I were interested in getting rid of it, but I am not. Actually only recently purchased the machine from a friend at a great price, full well knowing of the work needed. It absolutely has been an education in learning about all of it. I find it very interesting that some models of the cat machines have much in the way of after market drives readily available. Some are protected to the point where even bearings cannot be purchased anyplace other than from Cat. Final drive main bearings NSK BA-246-1 for example, I have many "large" bearing suppliers that I work with in the power industry. Word back from them in inquiring for me - is that NSK will not even quote the bearings due to non compete agreements between Cat and NSK. If I understand it correctly that is. Again, its all very interesting..
http://www.finditparts.com/products/3584521/nsk-bearings-ba246-1 post up a list of the CAT part numbers you are looking for that Offroad Equipment doesn't supply and I can see if any of my more esoteric vendors might have.
Gear Housing 136-2825 Duo Seal 136-2822 Bearing 136-2823 (2 each) BA-246-1 NSK Gear Planet 136-2826 (4 ea) Gear Bearing 136-2827 (4 ea) Bearing Race 136-2828 (4 ea) Gear Planet 136-2836 (3 ea) Gear Bearing 136-2837 (3 ea) Bearing Race 136-2838 (3 ea) Sun Gear 136-2840 Sun Gear 136-2833 Spacer plate 136-2842 Duo Seal Install tool - 1U6434 - used one would be great or one I can rent/borrow. Thank You
I'm sure you have already discovered that all these parts are available ex-stock from Cat ......... To give you an idea a complete final drive sells for just over $11,000. Gear Housing 136-2825 - $1730 Duo Seal 136-2822 - $175 Bearing 136-2823 (2 each) BA-246-1 NSK - $360 each. Gear Planet 136-2826 (4 ea) - $275 each. Gear Bearing 136-2827 (4 ea) - $35 each. Bearing Race 136-2828 (4 ea) - $31.50 each. Gear Planet 136-2836 (3 ea) - $280 each. Gear Bearing 136-2837 (3 ea) - $50 each. Bearing Race 136-2838 (3 ea) - $21 each. Sun Gear 136-2840 - $210 Sun Gear 136-2833 - $195 Spacer plate 136-2842 - $46 That list comes to about half the price of a new unit. Regarding used final drives, try also the former Part Number which 148-4570 replaced. That Part Number is 136-2798. I can see six units of that number apparently available. http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/PartsSearch.aspx?partnum=1362798&PST=Exact
Those prices look really good to me. If those are CAT list, they must be having an off day, lol. For the duo cone seal, there is a Willie59 thread here somewhere on installing those, as I recall using a piece of wire between the iron ring and the rubber toric to help push it into place without twisting. I recently ran across a new to me CAT install hint, you just throw the seal halves in the freezer for a few hours, the contraction from the cold and stiffening of the rubber toric rings lets you pretty much just snap them into place. Isopropyl alcohol seems to be the preferred install lubricant.
I have reached out to cat in my area, and they did note some of the parts were immediately available to ship in from all over. Some were not, and lead times were not immediately available. This is a personal machine so time is on my side in working through the process of repair. I have requested pricing on some of the units out there that have been noted. Some resealed units in the range of $7,500 had been offered, but no data to support gear sets, bearings etc.. A used set was available from a burnt machine in SC it seems at 5 k each, but there was no info as to condition on those available or hours on the machine due to the fire. No idea what I might wind up with. I am thinking that it seems for the price of the parts as noted, perhaps the best way to go - is to work with what I have. At least that way I will know the unit is basically brand new. Appreciate your time and insight.
According to my investigation this afternoon the only parts that were not immediately available somewhere within the Cat Parts network (mostly at the central warehouse facility in Morton, IL) were the 138-2826 Gear - only 2 out of the required 4 were located, delivery on the other 2 was undefined. Also bear in mind that you need to ask if the used or overhauled/resealed units are the complete unit with travel motor, brake, & final drive (148-4570 or 136-2798) or just the 136-2850 Final Drive. My price of $11,000 in post #16 above was only for the Final Drive, the complete assembly is priced at just over $15,000.
Nige: Familiar with the dollar values mentioned per quotes received back throughout the system. The used units thus far were listed as complete - some resealed- some simply used used at 5k. Those other numbers ranged from the $7,500 re sealed to 12K for a reconditioned unit with a 90 day warranty on it. Being the newbie on the block and with this type of machine, great learning curve for sure. In your experience, what does the "undefined" term mean in the way of being able to actually acquire the other two gears not presently listed in the system? Clearly you are very close to this subject and assume on the inside with Cat - my best course of action would be to follow up how?? Is it possible they cannot be gotten? YIKES,, now that would be a big sad face for this kid.. Thinking that hopefully is not the case.. eeee gadsss.. The plot thickens.. Lantraxco : Great tip on the freezer gig and the wire to keep the torig from rolling during install.. makes good sense. On occasion have used C02 extinguishers to shrink bigger pieces that did not fit into a freezer to slide big ole bearings/ sleeves on without a fuss.. So- in your opinion- your alternative contacts likely can't assist with better pricing/ availability?? Stick with CAT?? order and build away? Gentlemen, I know you are likely tired of hearing Thank You... But... Thank You.. It is beyond words in appreciation from a newbie...
Basically when I said "undefined" regarding delivery what the system actually told me was "contact dealer". When supply does not equal demand (as in this case, when only 2 of the required 4 items are shown as being physically available somewhere) is that the dealer contacts the Cat Parts Analyst responsible for their region and effectively says "we are ordering 4 of this part but only 2 are available, when can the other 2 be delivered..?" It could well be that there are some parts in the manufacturing process but the dealer can't see that until the parts are actually manufactured and delivered into the Parts system. The difference is that the Parts Analyst can see what's in the manufacturing process as well and can pass that information along...... What you should appreciate is that your final drive was only ever used on 315B S/N 1AW & 3SW excavators and when the 315B was replaced by the 315C the final drive was changed to one of a completely different design with no parts interchangeable with the previous design. However knowing that there are machines out there in service using these final drives there will be spare parts availability for them, even if at times it is not 100%. Make no mistake, on receipt of a confirmed purchase order to the dealer by the customer the necessary parts WILL be manufactured to meet that order......
Have you tried these folks? http://www.hrparts.com/finaldrives.html I'll shop some of this around, but anything I find will probably be overseas at this point and the freight would be a killer. Yeah, as Nige sez, CAT will come through. I've had excavator parts showing no availability, none on order "magically" appear from Singapore which I always assumed meant they were shipped from the manufacturer in Japan or Korea. CAT is big enough to send an email and the manufacturer will make them and put them in the air if needed.
Parts Cat 315bl Great info all the way around... Glad to read the parts availability aspect despite the machine being somewhat autonomous as newer models came into play..... Guess all that is left to do is print up some new money.. and get back into the garage... HR shows nothing for the 315 /b/l model, parts wise. Appreciate the additional link.. Searched up a bunch of suppliers on line, virtually all get the same results - Cat only for parts being sought.
Good Morning Nige, Lantraxco, Can either of you help with this data?? Wondering about specification data for the final drive bearing races. The ones I have look to be in very good condition. 3AW02476 Considering the potential of reusing them if within spec? 136-2828 2.7555 inch OD 2.0965 ID All 4 measure up within a 0.0001 / 0.0002 136-2838 1.9685 inch OD 1.5775 ID 2 of the three measure up within 0.0001 the third one is +0.001
I don't have any specification data AFAIK but I will go looking. Just from the photos I would reuse those bushes and thrust washers because they are low speed (and therefore low wear) items. However the question you have to ask yourself is by what percentage will your parts bill reduce by not replacing them and is the economy worth it in the long run..? TBH what I would consider the most important in all this is the quality of the oil you use in the finals and how particular you are about changing it at the recommended inter las. The oil should be an SAE50 meeting Cat TO-4 specification.
I am with you on the minor savings in the scheme of things, it amounts to $200. The only reason I even considered it was that Off road priced used ones for me when running my parts list by them. I thought well, the ones I have look perfect and measure up very consistent, seems the low speed of them would make them about the only thing maybe worth using if they were in spec.
I agree, if they look good you can reuse them (I would), or splurge and go all new if you think you'll lose sleep over it.
Just a follow up and thank you to those that chimed in to assist me. Posting some pictures of the rebuild. Perhaps it will be helpful to the next person working on one of these. The freezer suggestion for the Duo Seal installation worked well. All gears and bearings replaced. The large gear housing bearings also went into the freezer and slid right into the new housing with no fuss at all. Torquing the big nut was a hoot, spec called for 1248 NM or 900+/- Ft Lbs to achieve the rolling torque setting.. Simply trying to hold the hydraulic motor head from spinning was the fun part. Building a rugged motor stand would not have been a bad idea and would have assisted with that part. I had a 4 to 1 multiplier so that was not an issue. After a few creative holding point adjustments, was able to get it where it needed to be. Replaced the hydraulic motor bearings and seals while in there. The motor pistons and swash plate, etc. all looked great and were reused. The final drive is back mounted on the machine, working on rebuilding the track adjuster and then get the track back on it. Thank You, Nick
Just a thought. Don't forget to fill it with oil .... it would be a shame to see all that good work go to waste.
Filled with Cat Oil TDAO SAE30 TO4 Spec - Per the local Cat Dealers recommendations. Temp range for my region was mentioned. Thank You..
Hi Nick, glad you finally got all the parts and rebuilt it. I was curious if you don't mind saying, what was the total bill, and after the repair do you now own the machine for retail? I guess what I'm getting at, if you were to sell the machine could you still make money on it. Great read by the way, the people on this forum are truly amazing. Danny
W&W in Monks Corner S.C. has a yard full of salvage machines. Its possable they may have a take-out. Sorry i dont have number to call.
Dapperdan, parts for the rebuild were to the tune of about 5,500.00 . Dealer quoted the repairs at 15k. My labor was free - so to speak. Value wise, I am into the machine for less than retail, baring any additional major work, should be solid with it for some time.
That sounds about right. I would probably have gone with an SAE50 TO-4 but unless you are tracking the thing miles every shift either SAE30 or SAE50 would probably do the job just as well.
That's good to hear, I'm glad everything worked out. I have read posts on here about people rebuilding final drives and having issues because they didn't assemble something correctly, it really looked like you knew what you were doing and did a super job, best of luck, hope it runs for many trouble free hours. Danny
Thank You, Honestly, its hats off to the folks on this site that get the credit. Nige, Lantraxco, and others offered up extremely valuable insight and knowledge and first hand experience that got me through the process of my particular rebuild. My career for the past 30+ years is in the power plant maintenance arena, so I am mechanically inclined, machinist, welder etc.., steam turbines and generators and all associated power plant equipment have been my area of knowledge... The picture that is attached is of a recent maintenance cycle of one of our steam turbines & generators.. Fun work if you are mechanical minded.. Heavy equipment repairs is somewhat new to me. I bought the Cat 315bl from a good friend of mine (knowing of the detailed work needed on this machine) as I have property that I wish to work around on, so this is my first excavator, lots to learn.... The final drive unit went together well, the torquing aspect for the main set of housing bearings was the most challenging in trying to keep the unit in place. When I get to the other side to re bearing and reseal the unit, I will make the time to build a moutning bracket. Lesson learned for sure.. This site is fantastic, and again hats off to all those that take the time to contribute to it. I have learned so much from the threads to my posts, as well as so many others. Thanks