Saw a grain of what looked like a grain end dump hauling rd mix. I've been stricken by the bug. Anyone here doing? Are they running at 105? How many tons are they moving. I'd like to move 26tons if possible . A full frame would be nice. I see some going from 18-30k. What about axles. 3 or 4, I am dreaming. Dirt is the enemy. The more moved on one shot the better. Onlything fighting it is this little truck. Looking to do more but not invest 100k. This truck stays with a machine so a pumps nit the best thing Sorry no time to edit
OK to start, I am still trying to figure out what language is spoken here!! Going end dump trailer full frame should get you to 80K gross weight or around 45 t load(If stay legal), what our local rock supplier runs is a tandem axle 20 yard bed dump truck with two pusher steerables on air lift ahead of the drives and a 18k front axle with duplex rubber, he routinely carries 24 t on the truck(no scales close by and less DOT). Same set up running close by city LOADS of DOT and portable scales maxes the truck at 19t load.
Lots of dot here. Sorry my phone does some funky stuff. Full frame dirt end dumps are getting rare here. Though they are getting longer 3axles with a drop some lots of belly and side dumps.. The super dump and big dump trucks I'm not to interested in. They cost alot. I'm currently watching for a tractor and trailer. Doesnt matter what comes first. I do some bucket repair and rebuilds and tend to run into trade deals. I'd like to get over 20tons legal. I'll have to look into length and spread might be able to make a full frame do it if I can find one. But I might increase weight to much to make it worth while.
I think you need to spend some time on your state DOT web site to see what is legal and not. Each state runs their own set of regulations so what works in Idaho may not work in Washington, Oregon, Montana or Utah. Good Luck!
Tractor trailer will set you into quite a different world of DOT headaches and maintenance requirements as you likely already have a Class A.
A heads up on dump trailer use, if DO buy a tractor trailer stay AWAY from typical On Highway style road tractors, they generally sit TOO low, fuel tanks are low, air ride is not all that great without a dump valve to drop suspension when dumping the trailer. Will hate the trucks designed for off road, heavy suspensions, rubber block or even spring Hendrickson, walking beam style. Steer axle and suspension needs to be at LEAST 12K if not 16 or 18K as the fifth wheel will be well forward typically, if go frameless trailer have to pin fifth wheel in flat position and they develop Slop FAST. Do NOT ever try to dump off angle or already leaning, truck Needs to be square to trailer and as flat as possible as a general rule, can be a slight offline but do not give the trailer a chance to roll over sideways as it will. Pay close attention to load drop, if it stops too soon stop raising the bed and go look, do not try to shake a bridged load loose from the nose.
I have seen a dump trailer fall over on perfectly level solid stone bed rock while dumping a load with a driver that was experienced hauling dumps. Decided the problem was the steel trailer had not been used for a while and was rusty inside and the material was wet crushed stone that had a bit of clay in it. Just a bit stuck to one side and threw off the balance and over it went! Guess my point would be make sure you really know what you are doing before even trying to haul with a dump trailer. Once things start wrong there is not much that can be done to save the day!
I have alittle experience running end dumps and truck and pups. I hear you on air suspension. Its definitely a no go. A company I worked for bought a truck with air bags. Even with bags dumped you had to be level. Its frame was tweaked bef would always go right. You wanted to start with a left lean to counter the built in right lean when dumping. This was just a dump truck with 15ft bed. Scariest thing I've ever ran. Our truck pictured above is leaf suspension and can dump from most any crazy angle. I haven't had time to look into our dot here but will. Our truck is legal hauling 13 tons. Registered over 54k does bring lots of headache logging miles plus added fees I think theres another bracket over 80k to. Thanks for the replies. Around here the big grain type trailers seem rare hauling dirt products. Maybe theres goid reason for that.
I've known a couple of times guys here trying aggregates with their end dumps and they always ended up on their sides taking a nap fairly soon. To get 105,500 I think you may need a pretty long wagon (inner bridge) and "Idaho Spread" quad and would be dumping on the rear axle, which wouldn't work, AND may be too be long and dealing with restricted routes. It's been awhile since I looked at the bridge & off-track formulas in Idaho so I could be wrong there. @DMiller brought up a good point- there are suspensions & 5th wheel plates, if you look at the specs, that are NOT rated for use with end dumps. Maybe a tri or quad wagon behind the existing truck? Get some more capacity without breaking the bank, plus leave it in the yard when not needed.
Are end dumps nit common where you guys are?) Here in idaho they are.
Asking me? Yeah, lots here. No burning for land clearing so haul it all out. One outfit up the road that's all they do, really nice rigs with high side trailers hauls slash stumps + scrap steel from the shipyard. Good $.
Drove one awhile hauling grain, aggregate, clay, and crushed lime(farm amendment). Lime was scary as bridged relatively easy, clay was dry, grey and blocky but would adhere to anything except the trailer liner. Some use square side, my ex-boss used round bottomed. MAC makes both. Truck was spec'd wrong for what was being used for, did have air suspension dumps for truck and trailer just drove like crap with Pete Air Leaf. Pretty and pretty dysfunctional.
Still the most typical here, some will drag a pup. This a typical pup for Eastern MO Get around 19-20T on truck and additional 10-12T on pup. Use them together in 'Commercial Zone' here where so long as stay off interstate get away with axle weights only and not gross load total. Most I ever got on the Pete was 63,000 lbs of Ultra Fine lime Dust for a overall of 87+k truck and load. Managed to get close to that with Corn coming off the fields was actually dribbling off the edges.
https://www.trucksales.com.au/items...6>sViewType=Spotlight&rankingType=Spotlight Are you blokes in the states allowed to run trailers like this ? Pulled by a truck the same as the first pic on this tread but with a few more neddies
Only in the Commercial Centers as St. Louis, KC MO near here. They have popularity in MI and CA but not all that accepted and NONE on Interstate system as Bridge Laws shut that off.
We pull pups like this in Michigan behind tri axle or quad dumps to make a "Short Double" I've seen them pulled behind a tandem dump once in awhile, but not often. These pups are commonly found in 4, 5 or 6 axle configurations. That said, you see a lot more gravel trains than anything, especially by the bigger operators.
Michigan Train
You quoted 105K, you do understand that as a Permit Only weight? Anything over 80K is by permit. Max 20K Steer or Single drive 37800 for a tandem. Bridge Formula is Noted OFTEN. https://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/TruckersHandbook.pdf
We've got it easy here as the average 18-20 CY tri-axle can legally carry a 25 ton payload on state and local roads. Typical tri-axle that can legally carry 25 tons like this one. If I ever win the lottery...
In Washington if the inner bridge and overall between 1 and 4 is good you might get 14 ton maybe 15 ton. On paper just guessing at lengths it looks like 19 ton and some change. However you will typically bury the back group before you ever load 20,000 on the nose. I have had this argument in person in the North Bend scales with a female officer who was in the process off writing me a ticket for 3000 over on the drivers. I inquired whether I should open the hood and throw rocks all over the engine to try to get better weight transfer...
Was she an Itty bitty redhead with a haystack haircut and beady eyes? Just askin' I really don't know how she could walk with the chip she carried on her shoulder.
Yeah... I determined right out of the gate we were probably not going to enjoy our professional relationship. At least I was not going to enjoy it.
RZ, sounds as you have personal contact with the miscreant soul!!
That is why the longer deeper beds and twin pushers on the trucks here. To get more weight OFF the drivers needed more WB but had to garner Bridge formula too.
Is a Pretty Blue KW.
Same here CM . And a Quote from Trucker buddy Wayne ……. " If you ever catch your boy playing with trucks in the sandbox make sure to tan his hide good so he wont want one later in life " LOL Wayne's 82 & still trucking
I have noticed just in the last couple years all the big guys and quite a few little guys are running the 7 axle super dumps, and in the last month I would bet that every week there are another couple dozen brand new ones running around
Nope, it was only professional. And I was the usual loser. My normal response was "Write it up, I don't have all day to arm wrestle". Usually it was just a correctional notice.
Lately Granite has been running 10+ of these over on this side.
The asphalt guys seem to love em'!!! no more trailers, less switch outs when paving, mix stays hotter, just seems like it's an all around better idea... and just think what you could do with a four axle pup behind it well if the DOT wasn't around....
Those are becoming a thing here in the MW too, the air swing down was started on Mixers when they stepped up from 10 to 12 yard drums so they could scale the extra material(usually loaded to 10.5 max yds.). County and secondary state highways can get away with heavier axle loading unless get into bridge formula figures then need more axles under.
Lakeside has been trying to beat the trailer thing for decades. They pretty much invented that super trailer 4 axle that had the bail to back the reach through so you could back it like regular trailer by raising the dolly rubber off the grade
How much can you haul with one of those? We never see anything like that out in these parts.
The literature: https://www.superdumps.com/videos/super_dump_vs_quint_dump_truck/ Know locally the Quads here haul 24T routinely, get any distance and that drops back to 19.
We did a job last week repairing some crushed drain tile . Replaced it with 4" SC- 40 PVC . Job was a total mud pie with all the rain lately . Called " Buddy Dave " to run us out about 8 tons of # 9 stone with his single axil Ford so we could back fill . He showed up with 10 tons . We used it all …. If Dave had a " Super Dump" he would spill out 35 tons
Lately I've been seeing mixers with 2 lift axles in the middle and a swing down in the rear. No idea how many yards they carry. But I have seen a broken frame on the topside just behind the rear spring shackle on the steer. Why would that break there? Carrying the nose on the lifts?
Typical Mixer setup in our neck of the woods . 10 yard capacity . Very agile with the short wheelbase
Yeah td25, for some reason the front discharge mud trucks just haven't caught on around here see a few now and then but the conventional trucks can haul 10.75yds legally so it works for guys here.
If you think of the "strong arm” in the rear as a being like a floor jack underneath a pintle hitch on a conventional 3 axle arrangement on a dump truck and on every load you had the floor jack jacked up you would move a bunch weight to the nose. Now add the drops.... lots of stress up front.
I often wondered of the frame stresses these trucks were suffering with. Saw enough older mixers and dump trucks with cracked frames from too heavy on bad roads cannot imagine the pounding these are taking.
I've watched Strong Arm's video. They claim some enormous weight for a straight truck. I believe the way they make it work is a combination of the "bridge" (steering axle to Strong Arm lift axle) and overall number of axles. Those intermediate axles probably don't carry much weight. They are just there to be counted (the real weight is on the steer and drive axles). I think where this falls apart is in states (like my beloved New Mexico) where they actually look at axle spacing and axle groups. I haven't seen any in New Mexico, but I saw a lot of them in eastern Arizona when I was out there last year. I must admit however, that I have been out of the game for quite a while and things have changed.
I haven't poured out of a rear discharge mixer it 25 years . What I like a front discharge is the driver has great visibility and controls it all from the drivers seat . Sure helps out on " Flat Work " . Good driver just stand back & let him put the mud where it needs to be . Save's on labor .
Saw the first, and last front discharge Macks come into St. Louis in '77, the Material Service Company(Kienstra) bought four where after number three went nose first into a foundation hole they sold all that was left. That company is currently locked in on 12 yarders with wishbone rear drop axles.
That's interesting . No front discharge mixers in Missouri ?
With a good driver (which is the key) those front discharge mixers are as handy as a shirt pocket.
Yeah, to break the frame on the top side leads me to believe the drops were carrying too much of the weight is where I was going. The engine and front mounted pump were pulling down on the rail to crack the top. Kenworth C-500 and the crack was just behind the front cab mount. Went down about an inch and a half and across the top flange. Talk about a b*tch to repair.
Used to have a ready mix outfit around here that had a couple mixers with side mounted conveyor belts that could throw the stuff where you wanted it.
Agree renovator . Those little axils & tires are just for show . This is an east coast west coast thing . CM put up a good example of an east coast tri-axil . Axils are all under the truck where they should be for hauling & stability . And Ronsii has a good example of a west coast truck of the same capacity . Of the two trucks what would you fellers rather drive ?
It is about all you see in Mass and Rhode Island too, same set up.
I am in the bridge building business and that 1st one has created enough damage to see me through to retirement. Bring on number 1!
East Coast builds better bridges .
I still get the WSDOT email notices for road restrictions and saw recently that some of the old bridges they are weight limiting are " legal axle weight only to 105,500, no overweight/permit or super solo". That would bite if a guy spent all the coin on one and then all of a sudden a bridge he used a lot couldn't use anymore. In Washington at least the lift axle has to be self-steer, solid axle dual won't count unless it's permit for weight. 'I know a guy' that got popped over weight on the drives pulling legal 105,500 quad flatbed with a dual 20k pusher on the tractor. Told him lift the axle & re-weigh the drives.
About time to start voting the other direction ...
I don’t know about better but I do know that we have lots of them to work on! Washington’s roads and most the other western states are in much better condition generally speaking than a lot of what I have experienced here. Washington’s and Oregon commercial vehicle enforcement people are very aggressive about making sure you see it their way.
See those more here than any variant of front discharge. What does happen on large scale paving jobs here is use of dump trucks to haul batch and dump in front of slip form pavers.
Very True ! And it works both ways . Funny story …. We were doing the grade & dirt work for a customer installing a patio and sidewalks . The concrete crew were a bunch of arrogant potheads . Constantly complaining about how slow the job was coming along . We got it all graded out and forms in place . Potheads started complaining about how long it was taking the concrete truck to show up … It showed up & buddy Mike was driving . Damn good man that will put the mud where it needs to go . These numskulls started in on buddy Mike how slow he was pouring . Then came the grin . That aint good when he grins like that Mike wound up the front discharge and opened up the gate on them full bore. Man they was a yellin & waving there arms like the Rapture had begun with all the mud flying . " Slow down ! " " Please Stop ! " LOL
Cretards
Those "super 7" trucks look bloody hideous, and unwieldy. Would a twin steer, tri drive not achieve close to the same? Twin steer, tandem drive with a 4 or 5 axle pull trailer is the norm here (Not my picture)
The twin steer does not do so very well, Dowell Services had twin steer KWs K100s in the early 80s and took a Fresh paved pasture to turn one. Unwieldy is being nice.
How we do it in idaho. I haven't had much time to looking into trucks. And Idaho rules. Been digging., playing catch up this weekend to hopefully hit mondays plans.
Reyco four spring, typical of a road tractor/dump truck conversion. Better would be walking beam Spring or rubber ride. I have had to wrest those type springs out from under loaded trucks, a Royal BIOTCH!
Really, same capacity?
Here's one of the super-crete trucks one of the big outfits around here is using... they get more every month in fact they are having a hard time finding drivers.
I think someone told me the dumps can haul22 or maybe 25 ton...??? so at least 11 yards although I know guys that used to do that with a regular truck...
I hadn't seen those before. Have they got any suspension other than the drop axles?
You know... I don't know I'll have to look under one next chance I get... Oh I looked up the superdumps specs and they are supposed to be able to net 26 tons... not sure if you can do that much in washington or not cause I think... one of the drivers told me they can carry 22.... but kinda hard to remember
that looks to be a 15 yrd. drum maybe legal with 13
Was gonna say at least a 14 yard. Most likely the latest version of Rubber Block beam suspension whether Hendrickson or the new AirLink set up.
Brand new superdump with a superload on his 6inches is a bit different than mine
There are only two type of end dump drivers. There's those who have turned one over and those who will turn one over.
Our dump haulers here cannot leave the quarry without a cover on loose stone, even if low in the bed and light. 99% have rollover systems Front to back, a few still have to hand roll/unroll a tarp.
That truck probably has a power tarp installed and just didn't use it for whatever reason. I did an appraisal on a company with a fleet of trucks and they all had them installed. There is a law that covers debris coming off a load and we have had some bad accidents in the recent past. I don't know if there is a law requiring covers but I suspect that there is. Ronsii might know.
MO State DOT Boys and Girls like that type, instant gratification ticket, here is $200 unsecured load.
In SC, it must be tarped unless 6 inches below sidewalls. Nice thing is, if it is tarped, any gravel damage is legally assumed to have come from the road, and the truck is not responsible. Some municipalities have ordinances that state all dump beds must be covered all the time.
Same here pretty much only have to cover if it able to blow out... he should have flipped his tarp switch with the load encroaching on the freeboard like that... but... who knows maybe it wasn't working from the installer and they haven't had time to get it fixed.... or maybe he didn't want to wait the 20 seconds it takes to deploy???
looks like mtn. hwy. (7) near roy "Y"
I peened a crown Vic windshield on southbound 5 in Everett in 2012. I was at home working for a friend while my dad was holding on. The Crown was owned by WSP and populated by a very unhappy Sgt. He went in to the advanced class diatribe about insecure loads and tarps. He then asked how it was I didn't tarp my load. I had to ask him what he would like me to use as I had no tarp. He then became extremely agitated! He wrote me a ticket for insecure load and an equipment violation for no tarp. He informed me that it was perhaps in my best interest that if he ever saw that truck again that it should have a tarp and it better be on!
I don't know what it is about those people but the ones in the white crown vics seem to get huffy at the smallest little things. I mean, they seem to treat a pebble in the windshield like a two man rock when they finally get you to pull over. I had one follow me in the dump truck I was driving all the way into a wash plant because the right rear mud flap fell off and he ran over it. Got real huffy when I asked him if he could let me know where the old mud flap was so I could reinstall it.
Yep, that's why I left the wrecking yard sign in the pic they are closed down now though... had a 'little' fire there a while back which finally got em' shut down as they couldn't make it on just fixit and other services.
The guy with the unmarked maroon one mentioned above must have been his brother!
MD, you would enjoy a Good Friend of mine!! He does NOT take kindly to tailgaters in his car or on his ride. Has a cup holder with a few assorted pennies in it, on the bike has a small cup he made on the bars, also has pennies in it. Asswipe gets on his tail, pennies go out thru moon roof or if on the ride over the shoulder. Has deterred a number of jerks from following so close.
Glass marbles work miracles
Guy I know keeps a glovebox full of spark plugs for the same reason, apparently they work a treat
My buddy calls them attention span tools. I like both the marbles and the spark plugs.
LOL, I would have never thought to use a plug for ammo...
I used to own dump tractor/trailers for 18 years.(thank God that is over) Here in hellinois, we ran 22' trailers, 5 axles total. We were allowed 72,000lbs if you bought the SHV (Short Hauler Vehicle) permit. Otherwise we were limited to 67,500lbs, even though our registration said 73,280lbs. (Don't ask, it's hellinois!) I ran mostly Hilbilt Mongoose trailers, 1/4 frame for paving asphalt and concrete.
67500 total? That sounds crazy low on 5 axles. I get 25 ton in my tractor trailer that is 88000 on 5 axles.
We cannot axle weight scale beyond similar here on the quad series dump truck I drive Legal scale weight is 67-68,000. Bridge law
Unless you are a logger then you can go by axle gross. I know one that typically runs 112 to 120,000 lbs all the time. How much do you think the politician got paid to get that one threw?