I just recently bid on 5 demo's for condemned properties for a city around here. 2 story brick home with basement. 2800 square feet. Had to have everything pulled out, no concrete or anything left but clean fill. Then lot seeded and strawed. I was a little high perhaps on my bid, 9800. But some jack-off came in at 3500. But thats not the worst, some other guy came in at 1200! Lowest bidder won. How can people operate like that. 1200 wouldnt cover the tipping fees, let alone insurance and clean fill. After checking around, this guy from East St Louis, had been in trouble for dumping on his property, and he was lowest bidder on 4 out of the 5. Sorry had to vent! :Banghead It reminds me of a song, "its so hard to stay honest, in a world, thats headed to hell...you cant make a good living these days, cause the truth just wont sell.." jamey johnson said it best.
No, your bid wasnt too far off what would be going rate around here. Just remember, when that lowballer is busy doing work for free, your able to pick up good paying work. Quality work sells even when low prices dont.
I've been in business a long long time... history tells me they won't be in business long..... history also tells me when their gone another will take his place. Get over it and move on,, look at it this way, you wouldn't want it for that price anyway. Im not in this business because I need the experience,, im in it to make money and if your not making money at what your doing, might as well go fishing......
I don't see how someone could do that for $3500 if they are paying for the haul off too. $1200 baffles me.
In the public works field, there is one troubling piece of information that is rarely known: the actual price paid . We all know what the bids are, what we never learn about are the final payment numbers. As for me, on the jobs where we have seen such monkey business such as described here, the agency awarded the low baller - who did not finish the job. Then on a couple other separate purchasing actions, proceeded to have the work finished in this manner. But there are so many examples, it leads to me to believe the folks that come in low bring lawyers with their team and file claims and lawsuits, which are protected by "we never comment on pending litigation" ....then the item goes to confidentiality category and who knows what the final number is! The whole process takes about a two or three year time frame from what I can discern. Any other thoughts?
There were 2 contractors that had competing bids close to mine. From what their reputations are, they are good contractors, as for the other half of the field, they were half, and then some what the other 2 and I were. I would not have done it for less, knowing the permit fees, and tipping fees. Not to mention the cost of dirt needed trucked in to fill in the basements. Oh well I learned alot from this public bidding crap. They take as much tax money from you as they can but give it back out to the lowest guy. Love the American way:0 Thanks for all the responses guys. Makes me feel better.
low bidder ..........the one thing that comes to mind is my first time on a airplane...This guy kept tellin all the draw backs to flyinn and how he was probably gonna die on one...When we got inside that plane he looked at me said "what really bothers me is that the lowest bidder built this plane"
I lost a goverment engine contract to a guy by less than $50.00 on $7000 engine. The guy had a 20% failure rate on the previous contact for the same engine. My mentor told me "they deserve each other" ---I've laughed many times over those words
Without knowing all the details, your bid of $9800 for a 2800 SF demo is in the ballpark of what it would cost to do this job. If a guy bid $1200, he is dumping the debris in a hole somewhere and intending on burying what he can onsite. Like has been said, this will catch up with him. I too have experienced this crazy kind of bidding for projects. I have told too many owners - "Take his money".. Never lost money on a job I didn't get.:cool2
I've got one for you guys. I bid a church demo at $6000 to tear down, burn and remove what is left. They also wanted sb-2 gravel hauled in to make additional parking, which was not included in bid, just charge some much per load whatever it took. Another guy bid it at $7000, same rules applied for him. They took his price, he then began working, upon finishing he told them it took more time than he thought so it cost em another $1000 and they cut a check no questions asked.
Sounds like you should of dropped a few more coins in the the collection plate.
I know a contractor that bid on a State job.Lost it to a low bid then the State found out no bond.Called the high bider told him what happened and he could have the job.They wanted him to do it for the low bid and he told them I give you my bid and I'm sticking to it.
That might worry me too if there weren't such things as inspectors or any type of quality control. But making sure that everyone is doing what they are supposed to do is getting harder when they de-fund the inspection agencies so they can't have enough inspectors to do their jobs. Anything is legal until you get caught.
I hear this every day, they lose less money by doing jobs at a loss than doing nothing at all, or in effect go broke slower over doing nothing, I'd just ignore it, eventually life goes on and they'll not be around to worry about, the next flunky will though, just keep doing profitable jobs and you can't go wrong, there's no need to work for a loss just to get the job, if you start down that road you might as well hang out the for sale sign.
The first day I did my ground school, the instructor said "What happens when a two engine plane loses one engine? It just crashes slower." I did what you said Randy but it didn't work out so well. Even the two engines wouldn't have helped though. Keep both engines running as long as you can.
Where I live, the city has old dilapidated houses that they have aquired demolished several times a year. I'm not a demo guy but I saw some of the bids for some of these and really didn't know what to think. They were seeking bids for the demolition of 8 houses at different locations across south town. There were 3 guys that bid and the bids were $21,700; $20,462; $15,300; Just curious what you guys think.
Depending on several variables like distance apart, size and volume of debris, project specs, etc the guys with in the $20K range might be profitable. :beatsme To tear a house down and haul it off for $5K or less is tough unless it's a shotgun house without any contents. I am basing my numbers off a 30CY can at $385 with a 6 ton cap, $22 a ton over, which is pretty cheap compared to other parts of the country.
I bought a house on a tax sale that was scheduled for demolition. The city had gotten bids and the low bid was cheaper than me paying two employees (truck driver and operator), paying fuel, covering insurance, and tipping fees. My friend was lending me trucks, equipment, employees and contacts for fill, and it still was worth it having the cities contractor do it. He ended up taking a Japanese maple and a blue spruce and had to reimburse me three times the value $2400, demo was $1280 charged to my property taxes. I'd rather stay home if I'm not making money. Tom
CM 1995, you're pretty close on price of containers. Last year a 30 cy cost me $300. Seems like demo prices have gone down more and more every year as these guys compete with each other. I had heard on this particular job that the demo waste was being dumped in a hole out in the country. We are located around 50 mi from the landfill so hauling it that far in dump trucks can run up the cost in a hurry. One of the other bidders has a large 100 cy trailer so he has fewer trips to the dump. He also uses $10/hr labor so he can use them to strip copper and other salvageable materials to offset expenses. TEC, I've been thinking about doing the same thing and letting one of the city's contractors tear it down. They charge less than my expenses would be to do it myself. I've done nothing but stay home this year. Prices for everything around here have gotten so low that when I give estimates, people act like I'm crazy when I tell them my price. I've been quoting at cost this year just to get some sort of cash flow coming in but I'm not going to pay to go to work.
We lost a demo job just last week. 6 homes, 2 where real easy and small, 1 was a three story brick with homes about 15 feet on each side but had good acesess front and back, 1 had the same acesess but was all wood and two stories, 1 had 3-5 feet on each side no rear acesess and the house was set first floor level with the sidewalk and the front porch was up to the sidewalk and house went back about 40' (this one would be tough and figured the best way to take down was to knock the front and sides down and use the garbage to walk on to get to the back. Once the structure was busted up we load our trucks with our 160 hitachi and use our JD 50 mini to through the waste from the back to the front then lift the machine out when we were done.) The last was a real nightmare a home added onto over the years to go from a two room office to a 7 unit apartment. Built over a hill with what seem like no plan and built to the sidewalk in the front and about ten feet from the home in the rear. Now all homes have to have fill brought in, graded, seed, and strawed. The dump is close, about 15-20 min. from the farthest house. We bid it at 36,000 the winner got it at 22,000. Were we way high or did we get low balled out of work?
LOL LOL LOL Probably related to the Chairman of the Board of Deacons. Church folks don't like to "haggle", says it sems "Petty". A good rule: When doing work for your church (or any church); charge them full boat and collect it, OR do it for FREE..... Either way there will be comments on your position. Enjoy the one you select.
Wow $22 a ton? That is crazy cheap. Here in WA the cheapest dump is around $100 a ton and the cheapest recycling is around $70 a ton.
Actually getting it a little better than that. I am starting a commercial demo today and my 30 yards are $335 flat rate with a 7 ton cap and $21 a ton over. Should average 9 tons a can on this job. There is no recycling except for what I scrap and the hardcore materials that are separated to be used as fill elsewhere. With such cheap gate rates recycling isn't feasible in my area.
We run into this all the time around here(nepa). Guys are slow and desperate for work, but they're not helping anyone throwing in these lowball bids. In a lot of cases the bid doesn't cover material or tipping costs, they take the money and pay on some debt from months before just to stay above water...in the end it will catch up with them but it sure can be aggravating when you work hard at making a good name for yourself by giving a good job at a fair price...
Seems like it makes sense just to send it all to the dump, with tipping fees so low. Are there any legal requirements that you recycle a certain percentage of the C&D where you are, or is it OK just to send it all off to landfill? Just curious.
Any government bid by me reads ''lowest responsible bidder'' to get that job.Yes,there have been lawsuits involving that word--responsible,as to calling that low bidder irresponsible,either because of his ridiculously low price,his past history,or both.Common sense[not something most gov't. workers have] would dictate though that if 3 contractors were say $300-$500 apart on a $2,500 job and contractor #4 bid $400,ummm,don't you maybe think something is wrong here and NOT give it to that lowballer.You should know it won't end up done right.
Yes, pretty much everything goes to the landfill. We don't have any legal requirements to recycle on a demo or construction job. I am finishing up a little commercial demo and I stripped the copper, aluminum door frames and a little brass that netted $180 at the scrapper. If there was an easier, less labor intensive way of separating the wood and other materials on-site then I would do it but with demo prices "as low as you can go", it pretty much all goes in the can. The slab and block are from this demo are going to the City ballpark to fill in a ravine to add extra parking, so that is a beneficial re-use.
No legal requirements here. We sort and scrap what we can to offset costs, and to do our part to keep a little less waste filling up the dump..all concrete and block gets taken out for clean fill elsewhere or buried onsite depending on local requirements. We pay $63 a Ton to dump so it pays to sort what you can without spending to much time doing so... @Tuney443 I was pretty slow last fall so spent some time bidding county demo and excavating work...it's a joke( at least in our area and current market)...In both cases there were multiple jobs priced out separately and low ball bidder walked off with all..You have your 4-5 guys within 10-15% of each other then one takes them 50-60% lower...no profit being taken just prolonging shutting the doors...No money put in the contractors pocket which in turn means none going back into the local economy and the county gets a crap job...it's a lose lose for everyone but they continue to accept these prices...
Sorry to hear that--just plain stupid.Just thought of something a little off topic--a demo job I had a few months ago of an old body shop--well ,I call Dig Safely NY and the standard stuff is all done but now there's something new[at least new to me] they want--a pre-demo conference.OK,so I ask what this is all about? Basically it's for how the local power company is going to do the disconnect.Fine,makes complete sense, except for the fact that my client,the owner of the property already has the feed lines from the house to the body shop down and I tell the lady this.DOESN'T MATTER I'm told--don't take ANYTHING for granted.So she tells me that I being the contractor decides the time and date.So I tell her tomorrow,7 AM--fine.Nobody shows up except the client and me---gave the power company and Dig Safely a good azz chewing.Nobody seemed to really care,what a joke.
when my father broke out as a project manager in the early 70's for a rather large company the president of the company told him to get atleast 5 bids on most projects and 7 on the larger ones. Take the first two low bids and throw them in the trash. the only exception was if it was a good company that they had worked with before he was allowed to call them up and tell them that they were a little lower than everyone else and what he thought it should be and to take a look at their bid again.
Reminds me of a sayng, "The bitterness of poor quality will be remembered long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotton." Keep your head up. With prices like that, they won't be competition for much longer.