I just won the bid on a Lull 644D-34 and have a question. I change all fluids when I buy used equipment. I use Shell Spirax S4 TXM for my Mahindra tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid. I use Chevron Torqforce for my CAT excavator hydraulic fluid. Does the Lull use a certain type of fluid, or can I use the Shell Spirax or the Chevron Torqforce in it? I can manage with two different hydraulic fluids, but don't wanna have 3 different brands. I will do this ASAP, as I hate adding fluids to unknown fluids. Engine oil is a no brainer.................Shell Rotella T in everything, even my gas engines. hugs, Brandi
Are you talking about the Little Lull with the engine and transmission on the side? If so it's not a ZF transmission- it's a Clark/Hurth affiliated with Spicer. They recommend a TO-4 fluid or a lot of people run 10w30 motor oil. I've seen both and they seem to do fine.
Yes, that is it. Here is a photo of it. Then the Chevron Torqforce fluid will work, as I was told my a CAT repersentative that Chevron makes CAT hydraulic fluid. TO-4 Fluids are specifically formulated SAE 10, SAE 30 and 50 oils designed to meet Caterpillar’s latest Transmission and Drive Train Lubricant specification. TO-4 supersedes and replaces Caterpillar TO-2 requirements. I'm pretty sure The Chevron meets TO-2 requirements. Thanks a bunch. hugs, Brandi
Looks like you have it covered. Good luck with the machine.
Thanks. Once I get it home, I gotta get one of these for it.... https://www.durattach.com/telehandl...haugen-telehandler-tele-tach-model-mtach.html So I can use my grapple to wrestle logs bigger than my tractor can lift. Merry Christmas hugs, Brandi
Well, that covered the transmission fluid in post #2. What about the hydraulic fluid too? What do Y'all use in your Lull's? hugs, Brandi
A good tractor hydraulic fluid in a 10 wt meets specs. Don't buy cheap hydraulic oil as it doesn't have the anti foam and rust inhibitors that's good for the system. Oil is cheap compared to pumps.
Thanks. The Shell and Chevron run about, last time I purchased, around $48-50 or so for a 5 gallon bucket. So it will be Chevron Torq Force 10 wt for hydraulic and 50 wt for the transmission fluid. What wt. for the axles and Transfer case? hugs, Brandi Amen to $$$$ pumps. hugs, Brandi
If I can let me give you some advice- This machine has 2 gearboxes that change direction on the power transmission of the driveline. One turns the power at a 90 degree angle and the second is a Tee that goes to the differentials. Don't jam the forks in anything and spin the wheels. The gearboxes can fail under that sort of strain. It's made to pick and carry loads, not push them around like a bulldozer The chains in the boom don't like it either Treat the machine right and it will give you good service. Good luck with it!
Thanks for the information. It will be for moving logs with a grapple and hanging roof trusses. Moving fresh cut lumber around. I might make a backet for it for tree limb trimming. Maybe moving sawdust from the sawmill. I use Shell Spirax HD 80-90 wt. in my tractor's front axle and hubs. Will this be okay for the Lull's gear boxes and hubs? hugs, Brandi
My book says transmission uses Citgo Hyguard tractor hydraulic fluid. The gearboxes, diffs and planetary hub ends all take 80w90 and the hydraulics take an ISO 32 fluid but you know the better quality oil is well worth the extra money.
Can the machine handle sitting still and extending a bucket into a pile of dirt or gravel? hugs, Brandi
Personally, I wouldn't. The machine boom isn't designed for that. It's made to extend and retract an elevated load-The chain in the boom wasn't made to operate at that force and stress. That said, it'll work 'til it don't if you use it like a front end loader. When the boom chain and rollers fail you'll have a problem on your hands.
Where do Y'all buy your Lull parts? Specifically hydraulic and transmission filters? hugs, Brandi
An operator for the company I worked for broke a chain pushing frozen snow piles back that had been dumped off a hill doing that. He was using the fork carriage only, no bucket, but the snow was hard.
I won't be doing that. Any idea where to buy parts for old Lull's? hugs, Brandi
You can get them through NAPA. I don't remember the numbers offhand at the moment though.
So NAPA has them. Great. I think they have cross reference charts somewhere. Thanks a bunch. The engine oil and fuel filters, on the machine, are Baldwin with readable numbers. I found them on Amazon. They arrived today. hugs, Brandi
Looks like I will be needing bearings for the front left steering knuckle, as it is leaning in at the top of the tire. Any idea where I start looking for them. Is it JLG or Skytrak that bought Lull out? hugs, Brandi
Agree with the comments on the gearboxes and boom chains. I've seen a gooseneck bent from pushing snow. Lifting capacity at full reach is only 150lbs so don't expect much with the transaction extended. According to my info: hyd oil: ISO 46 (universal tractor oil is ISO 60 which would should be fine in TX) trans, T12366 CLARK: Citco Transgard was factory fill, 12 quarts gearbox: SAE 80W-90, 80-90 oz diff: SAE 80W-90, 13.75 quarts planetary hub: SAE 80W-90, 34 oz I believe the axles are SPICER 420S/65 front, 420S/64 rear. If you want to go thru JLG they have online parts manuals. The other thing I'd recommend with the 644D is to make sure the fuel is full if you intend to park it for a long period. It uses a frame member as the fuel tank and diesel fuel will eventually flow off leaving the steel exposed to air and it can rust. A strong magnet in the bottom of the tank is cheap insurance from plugging the filter. Lull and Sky Trak were bought by the same investment group back in about 1998, with the combined organization called OmniQuip. This was sold to JLG around 2003. And not long after JLG was bought by Oshkosh. The Lull brand was discontinued several years ago. Rental houses didn't charge more for a transaction machine so they weren't willing to pay more and as we all know fewer and fewer people own their own machines anymore. ISZ
Thanks a bunch ISZ. I won't be doing any work at full reach and have decided to just leave the forks on it. The tractor will do all the grapple work. It can move around the big ones, just not lift them without flattened tires on front. The Lull is a beast. hugs, Brandi
Your welcome. They are a decent machine if you use them as intended. Lull was a little ahead of the curve with this machine and as a consequence many people didn't see the point of a light 6k machine so they didn't sell very well. But as we've seen the market for the smaller 5-6k machines is slowly growing in some markets. ISZ
Thanks. I tend to baby it and keep it away from soft ground. I already stuck it once. I am lucky to have a CAT E70 to pull it out. I do need to get under it and grease the u joints, as I hear popping from time to time. Not all the time. hugs, Brandi
You can probably source the trunnion bearing through any bearing supplier, if there's numbers on them. Getting the caps off can be a chore, so be warned. How are you certain that's the issue? Have you jacked the wheel up and shook it to see where the slack is? Do that and see if it's the trunnions or slack inside the planetary hub bearings. Do you see oil leaking on the inside of the hub? I have not pulled an axle or hub assembly on a 644 D 34 specifically but I've pulled a ton on 644 B machines, but they are a different series of axle. You can maybe pull the whole assembly without disassembling the planetary and change bearings. I think your slack will be in the planetary though, but I'm not there to look. There's less than 90 degrees of movement on the trunnions and the bearings are basically trapped in the race so they don't move enough to fail-just my experience. Check it out first. Good luck.
No hubs are leaking. Just every once in a while I hear a sound like metal binding. It comes from under the center of the machine. Like from a gearbox u joint. I haven't geased her yet. Overall the machine seems to have been well maintained. My left front tire leans in. I jacked that wheel up and could not wiggle the tire at the top at all. What could that be? No odd sounds from the wheels or hubs. Where do I service the gear boxes? I was under there briefly and didn't notice any drain plugs. hugs, Brandi
The little gear boxes have a vented plug in the top you take out and fill with 80w90 gear oil. My book says 80 ounces but I'm not sure they'll hold that much. There's a drain in the bottom of both gear boxes. There isn't an oil level plug on them-I don't know why that is but whatever. As far as wheel lean you'll have to hunt it down. How bad is the lean? If it's pronounced there's play somewhere. Jack it up again and Push in on the bottom of the wheel and see if it flops then. The slack would have to be the planetary hub bearings are loose or the trunnion bearings are bad-that's really the only places you can get that lean from.
I will jack it up and push in the bottom ASAP. Thanks. hugs, Brandi
Do I have a fuel pump going out or do the injectors need cleaning. Everytime I head for the barn after moving logs, the Cummins 3B.9-C sputters a little at the same place every time, going up a very slight incline.
That's a vague problem. That machine is old so there may be trash or most likely rust in the tank. Also the fuel line may be really old and have a hairline crack somewhere. Just to be sure you can put a new one on there. Thats inexpensive. I run an inline 5/16 fuel filter on the one I keep up. If you don't have a filter I'd get one. And keep a spare on hand. I buy the plastic ones you can see inside. You can see when it's getting clogged up and change it our. First, be sure there's plenty of fuel in the tank. Take the fuel line off of the lift pump and be sure it has good flow from the tank.. there's a screen in the lift pump under the fitting where the fuel line hooks up. Take the fitting off and look in there. It may be partially clogged. If not there's a spring in the lift pump that can break and it won't pump as much. Start with the simple things first
Propped the bonnet open today and traced the line back from the screw on fuel filter and found an inline filter. I will replace that real quick.
I changed the metal inline filter with a clear plastic one. Took a ride out to the log piles and back. She ran fine, but after checking the filter, there are numerous black flakes in the inlet end of the filter. Will a huge magnet attached to the bottom of the tank near the tank outlet help? I am going to buy 3 or 4 more clear filters to swap out and see if the flakes diminish. Also, don't think there is a lift pump, as the bottom of the tank is higher than the inline filter and I had a constant flow of fuel. I had to pinch the hose with a pair of pliers. Thanks!
The only access to the inside of the tank is at the fill point. You may get something in there but you need to be able to remove it for cleaning. It has a lift pump for sure on the side of the engine- that's where the fuel line hooks to. No telling how much rust is in the tank so I'd certainly keep filters on hand. You can bet that there's a lot of rust and trash in the tank. I've been changing out filters for years on the one I keep up. I'd keep the tankmas full as possible too- that helps with filter life.
I have nothing to add. I'm just here for a hug.
Will a magnet outside the tank help?
I hadn't thought of that. It may help pull it to one spot but once it gets a certain amount of buildup it won't catch any more rust. And then how do you get the rust out? I would think a magnet in a mesh bag with a string or wire you could remove and clean would be a better option. That way you remove particles. Just a thought.
The problem would be getting the magnet inside the tank down low enough without it trying to stick to the side of the tank or opening. Also, the fuel inlet opening is about 4 foot from where the fuel lines are, since the right frame rail is one long skinny fuel tank. I am starting to think adding a poly tank behind the cab will be the best long term fix. For now, it will just be R&R the inline fuel filter as needed. Thanks.
The Lull was unloading some cedar logs today when I heard a loud bang beside and below me. Then the electric button up/down tilt quit working. Any ideas where to start looking?
Did you lose all functions? Or just the fork tilt?
Everything else works. I just went out and tried pushing the button and the joystick to the left to move the carriage and that works. So just the fork tilt is not working.
Do you hear any hissing noise from the control valve or rhe manifold under the seat? Any noise that wasn't there before the loud pop you say you heard? Is there a carraige fork tilt test port in the test ports behind the step to get in the cab?And do you have any pressure testing guages? Sent PM
No hissing noted. No to having pressure gauges. There are some test ports, but not sure which is which.
Tractormech has been helping me troubleshoot the tilt problem. When I went to remove the right slave cylinder lines, I found the forward mounting ear for the pin broken and slide about 6 inches forward. Also the retaining pin was bent.
The slave cylinders suppose to have this much chrome showing right now........... This is how much is showing on the right cylinder.....
Well thats a bummer. Looks sort of like its been partially broke for a while. Looks like something that could be welded up by a decent welder though. Post pictures of your repair!
The original welds didn't penetrate enough. Lots of smooth metal under the "surface" welds. Waiting on Onsite Diesel's welder to come out and "fix" it. Thanks again to Tractormech helping out with his vast experience!!!
I forgot to post repair photos. I had an industrial welder "fix" it for me. I had extend the transfer cylinder about a foot and chain it to the frame after removing the nut, cause it wouldn't budge. But hyd. pressure sure budged it. Got that removed and the welder had all kinds of room to burn rods.
Now, I have a leaking planetary gearbox. It's leaking on the inside right at the steering knuckle. I have parts call out for it. It is a Dana 420s.64 Oil runs out as fast as I pour it in. It was mfg. in Italy. Anyone have a service manual or overhaul manual for this axle?
Also, anyone know the approx. weight of a foam filled tire and wheel assembly?
Here is the rear axle plate
Here is the Lull's front axle data plate. I'm working on the rear axle's left planetary
I need oring #051470, item 114 and oil seal #051785. item 116. Palmer Johnson Power Systems tells me they are obsolete. Attached is the parts call out and diagram.
I ordered the oil seal and oring just now from Web Equipment under Lull part numbers. Which are different from the Dana part numbers.
Lots of times you can take an old hydraulic seals to a local hydraulic repair shop and buy a seal they will match it up or use a mic and order online after taking measurements.
I do that when I rebuild cylinders. The planetary oring was $3.30 and the oil seal was around $65. The kicker was they charged me $35 for shipping. I got it all replaced and replaced the Koyo bearings with new ones. Lots of Thanks to Tractor Mechanic that help me through texts and phone calls on what I didn't know. While waiting for parts, I played around with my plasma cutter and made a tire sling. It worked better than expected and saved a lot of one person tire installation pains.
I'd check with other suppliers for seals such as rocket seals etc
Thanks. Next time I will try rocketseals.com