I just bought a 2003 Mack CX 613 with a 427 horse E7 with 507k miles. Is there any way to read fault codes without the scanner? I ask this because someone told me you can manipulate certain speed and other settings in the computer by pressing a certain combination of buttons on the dash and somehow entering the last so many numbers of the VIN. Could this be true? We put a computer on it at the dealership that sold it to me (6 hours away from me now) and it showed a code that said "engine position sensor-erratic idle" We swapped in a new sensor and the problem went away for about the first 3 hours of driving then it came back. What's happening is when hot, it idles smoothly for about 3 seconds then I get a split second "upward" surge where it jumps up about a hundred RPM. About evdry three seconds or so I get that slight upward jump in the RPM. Also, my driver reported an occasional check engine light on his 380 mile loaded trip yesterday but I have yet to see a CEL when I've drove it about 6 hours with no trailer. I've tried googling for a self test function in these engines but I can't find anything. :beatsme
Serv, my Mack, also a 2003 CX613 (but with a 460 instead) has had a jumpy idle when hot since new. Dealership could not get it to not do it either, but told me some Macks just have this problem. :beatsme:Banghead I've over 500k miles on it now and it still has a jumpy idle, and acts just like you described. I've also intermittant CEL that'll come and go, dealership has no clue why, thought grounds?? Mine will even shut down for a split second while going down the road, and then start right back up. Freaks me out when it happens while going through an intersection. Guages will bottom out and come back too, sometimes. Mine has done all this since new, hasn't gotton any worse, and I'm to the point now I just figure it's a Mack ( and that's not in a good way ):cool2 I could go on and on about my dealings with Mack over this stuff and more, but won't. You can check your codes with the cruise control switch's, but you must have a stored code (ie, CEL stays on) You do itby having key on, cruise power switch off, and hold RESUME/ACCEL switch on until CEL light goes out. The light will start flashing the codes. It'll be a two digit #, with a slight pause between seperate codes. I have the list of codes, and can copy them for you, but it'll have to be tonight, gotta go make some money right now. Good luck!!
Thanks Jeff. :drinkup I will surely take you up on the list of fault codes. I can't find that list anywhere on the web. I don't have a constant CEL but like I said, my driver told me yesterday that he saw the lightning bolt symbol light up on the dash a few times while on the road. Also, the guy that read my codes with the hand held did so while the truck was doing the rough idle and warm. We did not have a constant CEL at the time. One thing worth mentioning is the mechanic at the dealership said he saw some metal on the sensor we replaced. The sensor is located on the passenger side front by the timing gear area. I didn't see the metal he spoke of but I went ahead and pulled it out last night to see if there was any more metal on it. I didn't really see any fragments worth worrying about. A friend of mine that used to work at a local Mack dealer said that if there was to have been metal particles on the sensor after such a few amount of miles that the gear set may be going bad and would need replacing. That sensor is highly magnetized though. I wiped the sensor clean and put it back in and the jumpy idle went away again. :beatsme Did the Mack dealer happen to show you where these possible bad grounds were located? I don't mind cleaning them up if so. another thing that kinda bothers me is the blowby coming from this engine. Everyone I've talked to says it's relatively normal for a Mack (since it's not puffing it out, just a steady stream when hot only) so I'm not really gonna worry about that. also, I have a pretty bad oil leak coming from behind the lower twin filters on the drivers side. and a not so bad oil leak coming from where the turbo drain tube meets the oil fill tube. Looks like someone tried to shove some silicone in there to fix it but it didn't work so well. Other than that, it's a very nice, clean truck. It used to be a Warrior Express sleeper truck that was chopped into a day cab. Due to the colors it's sporting, (gold/burgundy) we call it the peanut butter and jelly truck. here's the one I bought. I really love the way it drives. http://houston.freewaytrucks.com/fm...ay~Web+Inventory~-recid~12109~-find~-find.htm Sounds like you know your Mack's pretty well.
You would think it would be in their best interest to identify and take care of that one before anything else!
Here ya go! Sorry for the poor quality, but the important stuff is all legible. The most common code I have is the "92". That's the code that pops up when the truck stalls/refires. It also is the final code in the list. There's none past 92 ( it looks like some may be cut off in the pic scan, but not ) When I said it start back up on it own, I should've said if the tranny's in gear and the motor's still spinning because it has too (coasting down), it'll fire right back up. If I had the clutch pushed in when it stalled it'd die completely and I'd have to spin it over again via the key. My problems, and yours too, are not uncommon with these model/year Macks. They should have TSB's (or whatever Mack may call them)on all those problems, including the ground repairs, although the ground fix did nothing to change any of my problems. They are irritating, but they haven't left me stranded nor gotton worse since I bought the truck new, so I live with them. You're right though, Mack should've fix them, and under warrenty. Good luck, and if you do find a fix for the idle issue, let me know so I can get it done too. Thanks!
I forgot,, I didn't answer these: They mentioned like 7 different places they had to go and clean the grounds, plus they added a new one from the main harrness behind the instrument cluster, goes through the firewall, and attaches by a large wire connector below overflow tank area. That's about all I remember, but maybe/hopefully Mack can give you a TSB on that. Mine has some blowby, but less than the Detroit's Series 60's I've had, but alittle more than the Cat 3406's. Mine is also most noticeable when it's hot, but cooling down, like if I just pulled into a pickle park after running hard. Mine had that same leak behind the filter mount housing, and I had it fixed. Mine wasn't a super bad leak, but since the oil/coolant heat exchanger is there I figured I didn't want any chance of those fluids getting transferred/mixed (ie, antifreeze in the oil ) so I had it fixed. Mechanic said it wasn't a bad job, but it did require draining the anti freeze.
Thank you very much Jeff. Although we don't have a steady check engine light at the moment, I'm sure we will before long. I will update the thread as this progresses. :drinkup
Macks We were all Mack until last week. Bought a new Pete service truck and will start replacing all the Mack semi tractors. Just to many problems.
What kind of Macks do you run and what problems are/were you guys having?
Well I pulled a late nighter working on this truck last night and addressed quite a few gremlins. I fixed a turbo drain leak which was just an o-ring and gasket and also removed, cleaned and went through the entire oil cooler/filter base setup. Drained all the antifreeze, a couple o-rings for the oil cooler setup, gasket to the block, oil change while I was at it then replaced the antifreeze and some new 15-40 weight oil. I replaced the Baldwin oil and fuel filters with genuine Mack filters and have zero leaks so far today. Oil temp is down now and I can honestly say this truck is starting to grow on me. :cool2 I still get a slight intermittent idle, but it seems to be doing it a lot less then the other day. One thing that I thought I'd mention is that the engine position sensor around the geartrain at the front of the motor (the one that the handheld reported to be causing the idle isssue) has a twin sensor mounting down at the bottom rear driver's side of the engine. I pulled that one last night and wiped some small metal fragments and it seemed to improve the idle. Just a thought if you haven't pulled to check those sensors Jeff. :beatsme They are highly magnetic sensors and will pick up small metal that the come in contact with. Also, when I pulled the oil drain plug (the oil was pretty black) I pulled it straight out and inspected it. Zero metal on the magnetic plug. Not even metal dust buildup on it so I guess that's a good thing.
Another thought Jeff. The local Mack guru gave me a quick look over a truck at the local dealership yesterday. There's a junction box located right next to what looks like a starter relay on the firewall. He said that when that thing goes out or cracks internally, you will experience all kinds of wacky things. Might be worth checking that. He said that since he diagnosed his first one, he made a habit of grabbing the wire/terminal and wiggling looking for play from the outside of this box. Says that's a sure sign of a bad one and it will wreak havoc on the electrical system will random phantom electrical issues. If you need a pic of this box on my truck, just let me know and I'll take some for you.
Serv, I've not messed with the sensors at all yet. My truck has idled like it does from day one. At just over 200k miles I lost 3 lobes off the cam from cam followers seizing. They pulled the engine down (front geartrain included), and replaced everything bad. I hope they would've cleaned the metal from the sensors at that time but :beatsme Might be something for me to check. That'de be great!! I wish I had an expert to work on mine. I've not stepped foot in my local Mack shop in better than two years since all my troubles. I have to travel 180miles south to another Mack dealership now for any work my regular independant shop can't do. They (my indep.) are not "Up" on all things Mack, but do their best for me. I went and took some pics of the ground the dealership added on mine to see if it is connected to the same part. It connected inside to the back of the instument cluster, came through firewall (first pic black wire right of box), and goes up along the inside of the overflow tanks to the connection I'm pointing at. I also took a pic of another common Mack fix. The AC switch. The little push button one burns out. I replaced mine with a toggle switch. It's hard to wire in being it's against a board, but better than continuously replacing the stock switch.
Serv We have had turbo prlblems, oil leaks, electrical, and whatever else. The one tractor is always down it seems and the warrenty takes care of it. Two other new one is having computor problems. We have 3rd axles on all of them and pull side dumps and belly dumps with them, also lowboys. Next tractor will be different with 550 or 600 Cat. Our old 2000 Macks have really done well but these new ones are a head ache Serv. Ken
come join us over @ http://WWW.BIGMACKTRUCKS.COM They are some knowable folks there & we will be glad to have yall bulldog
buddy barry has the blue mack which is a E7and the thing is acting up. driving it at highway speed, all it does is act as if sme one is turning the key on and off. the electronic malfuction light comes on and goes off. we have to drive the truck 1200 kms to the nearest mack dealer which treats us pretty good. they can't guess what the problem is on the truck over the phone. thansk KoO Published Author
Tell Buddy Barry I said "welcome too my world". I hope they can find the reason and fix it for him. I may have jumped the gun with the code info for Serve, I dunno. I was just searching through my Mack stuff and my 2003 Mack CX613 doesn't say E7 anywhere on it, or in its paperwork. Rather it says "E-tech". I dunno if that's a completely different animal than the E7 or not. If so, Sorry for the mis-information Serve, and others. ( although the problems seem to have a very similair nature, either way ):beatsme
Sorry for the late response and thanks for pics. You are actually pointing to the box that I am referring to in your second pic. The Mack guy down here says when that fails internally, all kinds of random electronic issues can happen. As for the wiped lobes at 200k, how did they get away with not doing a rebuild after all that metal was sent through your engine?
Thanks for the info. I joined about a week ago under the same username I use here.
You didn't mislead me. The only thing is that my intermittent CEL problem was taken care of the other day when I worked on the truck all night. Using the cruise control method of pulling codes only reads active codes (constant CEL) so I didn't get anything other than a code 73 which is "speed control set switch" according to your list. So it has to be working and will be a valuable tool when or if we get the dreaded CEL light again. Back to the intermittent idle problem we have, my driver showed me that when he turns the cruise control on at idle, just one click of the CC made the bumpy idle issue go away without even really raising the idle. I hope I'm making myself clear here. I called my mack guy and told him that and he said he can take care of that by electronically bumping my idle up just a hair. I'll report back if this fixes my problem. So far, I seem to have most of these little thing almost under control. ointhead
It was a pretty extensive repair job, but it wouldn't qualify as a complete rebuild. I was told anything worn due to the failure would be replaced. Yup yup. I can tell you how to do that yourself, if you'de want to try. It involves turning the cruise's main switch (the left/power) off and on three times very quickly(within a couple seconds). Idle will then fall to 500rpm. Here's the tricky part, raise the rpm to where you'de like your idle to be, with your footfeed, and then hit "set". This will be your new idle speed. The hard part is finding that RPM without going past it. You know how touchy that pedal can be. Maybe you Mack guy has a way to find that "sweet" rpm by using the switches instead of the footfeed? I can copy the exact procedure from my book for you, if you want to give it a try? I did try and calm my idle down using this technique, but had to raise or lower the rpm too much to find a calm spot. It may work great for you though.:beatsme
thansk, will be right back. thansk
If anyone is going to try that Mack idle adjustment I mentioned I should also mention a few things first. 1)There must not be active fault codes present (no "CEL" on) 2)This won't work on an automatic equipped truck. You can get the idle to drop with the 3 quick off-on switches of the cruise power, but it won't set to the new RPM, and will go back to it's preprogrammed RPM once the cruise power switch is turned off. 3)The clutch pedal must be pressed atleast once after the new RPM is set. Otherwise it'll revert back to the previously set RPM. Mack also recommends an idle RPM between 500-750. FWIW, I found my truck idled smoothly at the 500rpm level, but engagement torque is marginal. I didn't want to be stalling it all the time, and 750 seemed too high to me.
Thanks for the idle adjustment procedure. I think it helped me further narrow down this erratic idle. I tried it and found that no matter what I set the idle to with the above procedure, my idle was still intermittent. And on the same hand, no matter what I set the idle to with cruise control at idle (whether it be 500 or 1000 rpm and anywhere in between), the intermittent prob would not be there, period. So I'm thinking is has something to do with the sender on the throttle pedal. Does this make sense to anyone here? :beatsme
Serv, I don't understand the workings of the engines electronics well enough to guess if it is related to the throttle pedal sender, but................. Here's what I've noticed with mine: It'll idle "jumpy" at it's current idle rpm of 600 when ever it's not cold (above 150degree's, and no engine load) It's "jumpiness" is a quick 50-75 bump in RPM at about a once per second frequency. Any slight load on the engine, whether that's just the AC pump or even the air compressor while building air, is enough to smooth out the idle so it's perfect. If I increase idle to 700rpm the jumpiness sound more like a slight miss, and at 800rpm it's perfectly smooth. Mine is the same whether on cruise, or not. I've been told by other Mack Drivers(not professional mechanics) who've had this idle issue too, that the fix is testing & replacing of faulty injectors, fine adjustment of the rack, and computer reprogramming. No mentions of sensor or sending unit's although that doesn't mean it's not in your case.:beatsme
don't ask, will be right back again, LOL thansk KoO Published Author
That sounds strikingly similar to what mine is doing. Have you tried setting the idle at ~600 then the cruise control at anything above that whether it be 625 to 700? Mine clears up no matter what RPM while idling on CC. I'm going to try putting a load on mine today while normal idling to see if it does the same as yours. I'm guessing that your idle prob is unrelated to your engine/power cutoff problem.
I'm guessing they are not related. I think possibly the problem with the guages and the occasional engine stalling might be related, although they never happen at the same time. The speed at which they'll quit and start working is similair though. And they only happen very occassionally, maybe once a month on average.:beatsme That's why I don't get too worked up about the problems, and as for my idle issue, that doesn't seem to have any negative effects other than sounding weird, but I sound weird sometimes too so............ :sleeping Okie Dokie, we're still waiting here patiently...........well CB's getting alittle antsie, but........:cool2
Just to update, my intermittent idle problem completely went away after my local KW/Mack dealer did a top end adjustment of the valves and injectors. Or at least that's what they said they did. It cost me $450.00 but it's getting a little better fuel mileage and idles smoother than it has since I've owned it. I'm finally starting to like this truck now.
E7 overhaul anybody here know the torque for 350 E7 main, rod bearings, and head bolts?
Do the trucks have an idle step up to increase the idle when the AC is on ? If so it may be a faulty AC sensor . Mack really blew it with these engines , they are garbage . They will do a cam and lifters every 500,000 kilometres and then they will do a crank . The only good one is one that is fitted with a series 60 .
Wow, this brings back memories. I was always a Mack man (still think the old mechanical motors rule)...but had a 2000 CH tractor with an E7 460 with some of these problems. Mine idled OK but it had that mystery "turn on/off real quick while driving" problem, that would leave the electrical malfunction light on. It also had a powerband like a light switch. One hill it would barely pull itself over, the next you would literally think the clutch was slipping because the rpms would suddenly shoot up, then look out, start grabbing gears. The dealer never could find the problem, they even changed all the pins in the ecm wire harness connectors. I recently saw it and spoke to the new owner and he said it is still doing it but said it pulls real strong now. Did I mention it was also one of the lucky ones that came from the factory with all the cooling galleries full of casting sand. Five air compressors and five dryers later they finally got it all cleaned out. Then it dropped a valve while parked idling at 125,000 km. Then the starter wiring caught fire while running with the pto on. Then the camshaft went at 300,000 km. Along with an air conditioning system that would freeze solid (was an update on that) and a recall on the engine oil pump that was too low on pressure.:Banghead That's why I bought a Cat powered International. I still like Macks though and I hear good things about the new MP engines. Just wish I could still get a new R model with an E6 350:notworthy
A few years ago I was an employee for a short time for a big petroleum transportation company, and drove a CH Mack. It had a 400 and when it ran, it ran just good enough so I wasn't mad all the time. It also developed that electrical gremlin one time where I was going along and it'd literally shut off. One day it happened 12 times in an hour, I was loaded with 8500 gallons of gasoline going up the NY Thruway from Albany to Saratoga to a station. I had to keep starting it back up going 65 mph to get to the station to unload. Something about electrical problems...and GAS ...I'm not sure what it is, but it was making me a little nervous. I called the so-called "mechanic" for the outfit, and for the first time in his life admitted he didn't know what it was, so bring it to Mack. It ended up being the wiring harness that plugs into the firewall that feeds ecm and a few other things. 4 feet of wire and labor was over $600.00. Shortly after that I remedied the entire problem by purchasing a '97 Peterbilt and became an owner-op again even though I said I'd never do it again. Electrical problems ended, but a whole new series of problems developed at that point...like all truck owners can relate to.
I used to drive for a local food chain a number of years ago. One of our outside vendors always ran Macks, they had the R model when I started, but updated to the CH when they came out. I can't tell you how many times one of their trucks would be sitting behind the store dead in the water, it would crank but never fire off. I made quite a bit of overtime due to their trucks blocking the dock. This problem was so common it tarnished Mack's reputation as being a bulletproof truck. I had driven a DM600 for 2 years in heavy construction and had only seen one minor repair in that time from a 50 cent hose clamp blowing off the pressurized air line to the intercooler. I was really impressed with the beating that truck took and kept coming back for more. The problems that plagued the early CH series would make me think twice about buying one of them after having such good experience with the DM model.
I have to agree on the earlier Macks being close to bulletproof. I did my time in a few (B-61, B-81, DM 800, DM 600, R-Models,) but never really aquired a "love" affair with them. I was always partial to a normal Cummins, Cat, Detroit powerplant with Roadrangers or two stick combos. I am surrounded by them (Macks) currently. Today I was in about an '85 R-Model waterwagon doing dust control for an hour. That was about all I need of it now for another month or better, and as long as nobody I know saw me in it, I'm cool.:laugh
I do'nt know how the Big Chiefs at Mack can sleep at night . With a proven and documented history of these trucks shutting down at speed it's only a matter of time until someone gets killed . The litagation will be severe and ongoing once a precident is set . And even if it was'nt the cause of the accident , what truck driver would'nt say "it just shut down and i could'nt control it " and if the shut downs do'nt get logged in the computor how would anyone dispute it . I'd be starring at the ceiling at night waiting for the call....
I have a old CH model with elec. 350. It has some electrical problems also . My top bank of fuses and relays in the glove box lost power , sounds like a easy fix , guess again :Banghead. I ran a wire from the lower bank of fuses to power up the upper row , works sweet . My truck also shuts off for a split second , I always contributed it to needing new fuel filters but sounds like its common on other trucks and its electrical. I still love her , she's never left me walkin.
Any of you guys running the E7, check your exhaust manifold. Specifically around the turbo flange. Mine was broken all the way around and leaking hot exhaust onto a plastic diesel return line. Luckily, I recently purchased a spare engine for this truck (just in case) so I had a spare manifold. But guess what, the manifold on the spare engine is cracked as well. I'll be melting some nickel rod in that one later on this morning. I spent all night grinding the injury out. I just need it to hold until the new one comes in. But that manifold is on national back order and there are none to be found anywhere. I wonder why?
This post makes me glad that our RD688 is as old as she is a 97, mechanical motor! knock on wood she has treated us well, just over 250k miles. It was a lumber truck that we had T&T Body king up in Latham build for us! Ill get some pics soon!
My 2001 Vision 427 use to do that, 1st owner did not properly remove the qualcom programs from the ecu local mack dealer fixed it in a sec. hasn't acted up in over a year
To all. No ur gear train is not coming apart. All u need to do is contact ur local Mack dealer n order u a couple of timing sensor shims. Most of the time they already have one on the sensor. But people leave them off not knowing. Majority of the time on the position timing sensor if there’s metal on it it’s because it’s not shimmed correctly and it’s riding to close to the cam gear. On the timing sensor that’s on fly wheel. There will b some metal shavings from time to time from clutch etc. normal where. Will need cleaned. But it also is supposed to be shimmed if needed