Man this gets old when there is 18" to dig out.
That's a good looking clean out. What type of bucket and hookup are you using?. Is that a laser in the back?.
Hey! Take heart, at least you aren't using a shovel! I hear you though, that kind of stuff days on end gets old.
Just a cheap 82" SEC tilt bucket. Do you mean by hookup what kind of coupler? It's a CNH labeled JRB. Not fond of JRB, would have preferred an Esco but that's what Case gave me. The JRB is kind of tall. The laser is a Spectra Precision GL722.
Well, you are in one of the few applications that the SEC bucket will work in and last a little while. I made the mistake of buying a couple of them. Just don't let it even look at a rock. Nice work on the ditch.
The only thing I dislike about that bucket is it seems kind of wishy-washy. Have the pressure set 4500. Just kind of wondering if all tilt buckets seem a little flexible of if these cylinders are too small?
Were line boring an SEC bucket now from a case 330, got about 300 hours on it, loading out coal breaker culm. Real piece of $#!T. Only good for loading air or fog in my opinion.
To tell the truth I've had good luck with them but I'm the only one that runs the hoe. Have a ripper, 30, 36, 72, and the tilt bucket. The holes on all of them except the 72" were off but since I have a coupler the pins never come out so it doesn't matter. Only one I couldn't drive them into was the ripper but about ten min. with the die grinder fixed that and we're good to go. I ordered the hoe with a 48" Werk-Brau so I would have a good bucket for demolition, rock loading, etc. The ripper weighs about 1000 pounds, the shank is 1⅞" thick so I'm pretty sure that it will take anything this 210 hoe can give it. The trenching buckets I got for $2000 apiece so if they fall apart I'll get a good one. IMO I believe unless you're digging in dirt with boulders or solid rock if you wreck a trenching bucket you should learn how to run a hoe.
Silt got deeper. Was close to 2' here. Further upstream I found a spot where it was 32" deep. Took 6 passes to get each setting cut.
Nice job on the ditch line Shimmy1 :thumbsup. That can get boring on a long ditch . I usually crank up the radio or take time to ponder & think about other jobs while cleaning out a ditch line . LOL .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oudNoKfNUfs
Thanks. I've only got about 10 miles left to do plus more scraper work than I could possibly get done before Christmas. Only problem now is corn is dry and partner has about two weeks worth of harvest left. So its back to one man show.
Don't knock it too much. Would rather have work than not. But interesting work is better. Graham
Still at it. Be nice to be done but ground isn't froze too deep yet so guess I'll keep going a little longer.
Put an end to ditch clean outs today. Frost is about 6" where it's bare. Don't want to wreck my glass SEC tilt bucket. Going to go bury some rock piles. Then some burned tree piles. Then that's the end of the road this season. Looking forward to some truckin with the hopper bottom.
how long is the deck on that trailer look's like 30' or is that just the camera
Nice ditching "Only" ten miles to go. ...Lol
It's a 24' well, 54" on centers for the tridem, overall trailer length is 54', exterior bridge for whole rig is 72'. On North Dakota state roads I'm good for 102,000 lbs since two lanes I only have to abide by exterior bridge. Have never measured for interstate. I need it though because with the ripper, 48", and 72" buckets on trailer with the hoe I'm coming in at 99,000.
How far from the Canadian border are you Shimmy? I'm just 40 minutes north and we do a lot of ditching in Manitoba too and yeah it's like watching paint dry. lol
How long is your normal work season out there? We usually start late March/April and finish up Anywhere from Thanksgiving to New Years. Winter is showing its teeth this week, but next week is going to warm up. Dont have a lot left to do so I'm hoping I can get most of it done before real winter gets here. I hear you on ditching! At least you have a nice new machine to do it in! Do you have more than just that machine hauling away for you?
That was just a short stretch where we had to haul it away. Hardly ever happens. Mostly I can sit in field and spread it right there. My partner farms so in the spring I'm a farmer. I usually get the dirtwork started about mid-June. Most guys start sometime late April into May. Depends on the frost and load restrictions. 245, I'm about 90 miles south of the border. But, I do a lot of trucking up there in the winter. Haul coal up to the colonies, bring fertilizer and canola back. Sounds like you guys had one hell of a season up there (and I don't mean it in a good way).
Yes sir last winter was cold the spring was really late, summer was wet and cold, and the fall was short and now we're back in to winter again but at least my friend and I can get ready for some ice road quadding on the tiny little river here.
So ditching done because ground is hard, on to other things. So pull the blacktop off..........
Dig the hole.......
Rocks in, clay back. Put blacktop on tomorrow.
My partner wants to get rid of these trees. So I did some training today. http://youtu.be/qrEfzTdERLY
Thats a sharp looking excavator!
Here some more pics
Here's what it looks like when done.
Nice! I see in your signature you are an OTR trucker in the winter, what do you haul? Interesting winter work.
Pull hopper bottom. Haul distiller's grain or coal up to Manitoba and Saskatchewan and bring grain or fertilizer back.
Cool, sounds like a good way to spend the winter! You must get into some bad snowstorms, no?
Yeah, they get snow. But we get snow here in ND too. I been lucky so far, have never been stuck anywhere more than overnight. I tell you what though, and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, it's kinda stressful when you can't see much further than the end of the hood.
Nice hoe and some real nice work you've been doing with it. Been doing some similar work myself but only have about 100 hours on the machine moving dirt and learning as I go do its not as smooth yet. It's my land and my time though so no ones looking over my work saying that aint no good. Just out of curiosity how far north in sk. do you normally get? Bet you've got endless loads of grain heading south. Been contemplating shipping oats south but I don't know if the math adds up anymore or not.
I hauled quite a few oats loads last winter from Rabbit Lake down to Stanley. I brought DDG up to Eastman Feeds in Saskatoon and Federated Co-op in Melfort. I think coming up into your neck of the woods is probably my favorite run. Good day truckin up and dump/load the next morning, good day back. That highway south of Rabbit Lake down to Hwy 16 though is absolutely the most awful piece of sorry excuse for a road I've ever been on. You guys have some nice country up there.
You're trucking out to my back door step.lol Didn't expect that lol. We've dealt with co-op feeds in Melfort for years and know the staff well. We're actually just north of kinistino but the same area. It's a little nicer up here then the southern sk. that's for sure lol. I've heard nothing but bad things about that road. Sounds like they're going to do some work on it though coming up in the next few. Maybe one day if the math works and things align we can do some business. Ryan
Yeah if you ever need some trucking just let me know. We were hauling the oats last winter for $1.35/bushel. We haul peas, lentils and wheat from up there as well. I also have hauled a bit of flax from over by Angusville, MB too.
It never hurts to make new connections that's for sure. Will do some looking into it and see what I can find out for prices on the US side. Highest contract price that's been offered since harvest is 2.95/ bu. We've got about 16,000 bushels +/-yet that haven't been contracted. It's all 40 lbs/bu and over.
Good stuff. I pull a tridem/two hopper so the heavier the better. 40 lb oats I'd probably be able to get a full load and not be heavy on drives. Full load for me would be 1650 bu. @ 40 lbs.
The Rabbit Lake loads went to Midwest Milling in Stanley, ND. They were brokered through Constantini from Vancouver. They are kind of buggers to deal with sometimes. I don't get into any details about the marketing, I just haul the stuff. Maybe if you want more info the guy I hauled for was Ken Allchurch.
I know you all like pics.
Got the road trucks out this morning.
Here's the other truck.
Nice rigs. Thanks for the info.
It's drainage season again. That backslope I'm sitting on is a lot steeper than it looks.
Clean looking work. What is the total distance on that swale?
First section I'm doing is a mile, less a little for the ponds that it goes into and out of. Then, I have another mile farther upstream. The exact spot where I took the pic is around 600', and I was about half done there.
That's a bunch of digging. Do you shoot any elevation points along the way or just go with the flow?
The elevation is set by the culverts. I'll set up at a culvert, shoot both ends. ALWAYS shoot both ends before digging on the inlet side. I've been burned. Really sucks when you clean a half mile of ditch 6" too deep. After establishing grade, I'll either survey the whole ditch to determine slope, or go to the pond that will drain. Sometimes, if there is a lot of slope, I'll set the laser at 0.06-0.08% and start digging. If it gets too deep, I'll just raise up a little, or jack the slope some more if the ditch is short.
Here's some pics, if anyone wants to see some more.
And a few more..........
The bottom two pics are of a little project I did for a tile project. We built an elevated ditch to force the water through the culvert. The culvert is way off grade, and since it goes under the county highway, it can't be dug up and fixed properly. All the surface water will go through the pumps.
Hard to tell from the pics, but is the pump pulling from the tile field?
Yes. There is a 140 acre tile field underground, and there is a surface inlet behind the pump chamber.
Nice looking work Shimmy. You are a very patient man. How wide is your bucket?
7'. Am I the only idiot on here that insists on working on these ugly slopes? It is steeper than it looks in the pic. I would guess a 3:1.
Nice work as usual. Must get pretty light on the back end at times working on them slopes.
Very seldom does the high track stay on the ground for the first half of the swing. Usually you'll pull up, feel the up track come up a little, then as soon as you begin the swing you'll feel it touch back down. If you don't feel it touch down, or the undercarriage twists, you know there's too much in the bucket. Maybe someday I'll get a Gopro and be able to video my antics.
More excavator stuff. Here's for Landclearer. I haven't gotten an after pic, the area cleared was about 250' by 500'. Took about a week. The trees were thick, and big. Average size was about 18' in diameter, and 60' tall. Had a few cottonwoods that were 3'. I would guess close to 100 loads of trees.
Last nights project.
Good looking work Shimmy. That cleaned up real nice.
The job last night, those were nasty. Two or three trees per stump, the trees were too small pull the stump out when I would push on them even after ripping around the stump. Stumps come out a whole lot easier when the tree is attached.
Nice of you to post the clearing pics. Love doing it and love watching others do it. Interesting to see the side dump hauling trees. You will not see those around here for sure.
I'm sure I could find the reason somewhere, but I'll just ask. Why no sidedumps?
stubborn rednecks I have one of the few pup trailers and side dumps and bottom dumps in my area people look at me like what planet did you get that from. don't use them much cause we can't get in or dump a lot of places our roads are not as wide or big as y'alls west of the Mississippi .
Looks really good, Shimmy :thumbsup Could you put a root rake on your 621 for cleaning up with?
I could. I want to get a rake/grapple for it. Problem is they are about $12,000. AND, I don't have a third valve on the loader. Maybe next year. I don't do a lot of tree work, and the CTL with skeleton bucket can do most of the clean-up.
Yuck. This is going to take awhile.
Very nice work as always. Looks like you'll be there a while. Got your laser set up or just eye balling it?Wish we had dirt dry enough to work like that. Everything's slop here right now. Not much for snow so far but rain almost every night instead. Got a bunch of cat work to do but I've gotten sick of cleaning tracks out every night only to fill em up 5 minutes into the next day.
I spent half-hour shoveling tracks when I quit tonight, too. Laser is a must. We have a foot of drop to work with on a little over half-mile of ditch. Cattails like to grow in standing water, so I like my ditches to be within half a tenth of grade. They dry out nice that way.
Looks good Shimmy. Not a lot of fall for half a mile. Do have a guy checking grades for you or do you climb on and off 100 times a day
Is that a RL60? Does it work pretty good?
Spectra LR60. Yes, I really like it. Well worth the $2500.
Thanks for the pic Shimmy. Pretty slick setup. I figured you had some trick up your sleeve. Doesn't take long to spend $2500 on a laborer grade checker and the LR60 will show up everyday on time and never complain.
I was kind of hesitant to put an expensive receiver directly on the bucket, but have banged it around for close to 1000 hrs the last two seasons and it still works, so it must be pretty durable. Now, if I could only get auto-grade like my scraper.
I was going to ask if you had any trouble out the durability. I have seen that Komatsu has a system that will not allow you to dig past a set depth. I do not think it will work on a ditch that has fall though.
I'm surprised it has held up that well, you would think with all the bouncing on the end of the stick it would be trashed. I have the auto-grade on my little blade for the 770 with 2 receivers and it works great. Looks Good! Kind Regards, CD
An uneducated mind is curious why you put it on the bucket vs the stuck like most I've seen. I was looking into them this fall but haven't learnt enough about them yet to know what's best for me. Nothing like a salesman promising you the world only to realize it only does half of what you actually want it too lol. Local friend sells a set up from line site technology's but its no where near as common as the Trimble set up most run.
Two reasons. First, I have it set on "plumb indicate" which tells me when my bucket is perfectly level. It is not the easiest task to keep the bottom of the ditch level when digging from the side. A little bit of bucket curl can be a few inches up or down while the receiver stays on grade. Second, a lot of ditches I do are fairly deep and wide. When you're stretched out well over half way, the receiver on the stick is useless. With it on the bucket, not only is the bucket on grade when it says it is, I can read grade at maximum reach or right up to the tracks.
What you have to have is a fifth sensor that reads off of a laser receiver, such as my LR60. You set the laser up high, maybe 1-2' above grade. Then, each pass, you stop briefly on the laser. The system "benches" itself, and calcates grade based off the laser, instead of machine position. I have tried a couple of systems, namely Exca-vision and a Leica version. I was not impressed with the response time. Felt I was waiting for the screen to catch up to me. I'd like to try it paired with the receiver on the bucket like I have. I could fit two receivers on my mast(you need 2 because you can't use the one that "benches" to read grade). Bottom one would be to bench, and I could read grade off the top one, as well as use the screen. Before anyone says anything, I admit I'm probably sounding a little nuts, but it's all about precision and productivity.
No, you are not nuts... water doesn't lie and keeps you honest. I use a Liaca depth master reciever and while it works well the water is the ultimate grade checker. Try rolling your bucket into the full dump position and using it that way to check the grade. I pull it to grade by eye then I will come back and check the grade after the last pass. If the previous pass was on grade it should be easy to tell if you are spot on. I f conditions are right I generally check the grade every other pass, sometimes I may go 50' between checks or more it just depends on how good I am that day... I am just bloody good. .
Have you seen the Trimble 2d GCS on the new Cat excavators? I wonder if that would work very well for what you are doing.
Nice work on the ditches. I do many miles per year myself. I'm little East of you and don't have much slope to deal with either. My last one was .020% over a mile. Rarely do I go past .070%. Ditching is my favorite excavator work. Never perfect and I'm always trying to be better and faster. I hate rocks and trees as they just tear up machines. I just tore the thumb off my rig on a 52" Cottonwood. I have another 3/4 mile to dig then wait for the ground to stiffen up so I can hit the trees with my dozer.
I'm not sure what happened with those sideways pics and I'm to dumb to rotate them so just tilt your head. I'm using a CR600 on my stick right now but as you stated it sucks. Hoping to have a bucket mounted LD50 or LD60 for next season. Do you charge by the hour, job or per foot?
Twisted, nice work on the ditch. I have a CR600 for my hand rod. Couldn't imagine having to use that for digging. LR50's are only about $1500. General Equipment in Fargo sells them. One of the main reasons I put mine on the bucket is I put at least a 6' flat bottom on every ditch I clean. More if the ditch isn't too deep to make it impossible. Sometimes I have to pull 1-1½' off of both slopes to get my bottom. Lots of dirt. Having the receiver on the bucket allows me to keep the bucket perfectly flat, so my ditch bottom is flat from side to side. My biggest challenge is keeping the ditch straight. Kind of hard to judge from in the machine. Yours looks great. Any tricks? As far as charging, everything I do is by the hour. The last ditch I posted pics of was slightly less than a half mile. Spent 32 hours.
Straight ditches??? I still struggle with that. So many factors can change the in-slope, out-slope, bottom width and top width. If the ground elevation stays fairly consistent with the ditch bottom elevation, it's easy. I'm never that lucky. If I have a new ditch to make and I have the dozer around, I'll line up and scratch a path with the blade and use the edges for reference. Pretty much anything will work to mark a reference line. I've used ATV tracks, pick-up tracks and even little orange flags. The worst is fixing someone's crooked ditch. I've found that people are generally impressed with my work even if I wrinkle my nose at it. Most are happy to see the water trickling down the bottom. I generally charge by the hour but people always want a price. My guess for cleaning without looking is around $1/ft. That is to survey the site to locate all of the problems, cut the ditch, then spread piles with the dozer. This year I've charged anywhere from $.85/ft for a simple cleaning of a road ditch to $1.50/ft for the one I posted above. I average about 275'/hr on the easy ones and about 100'/hr for the one posted above. It was a brand new ditch and averaged 4.5' deep and about 15' wide at the top. I like to be sure I'm getting $125/hr for my seat time. I have a number of repeat customers that want me to work by the hour rather than a quote. They have figured out that I factor in a buffer for problems on my quotes and trust my work and pricing. What part of ND are you from? I'm about 1.5 hours NE of Grand Forks.
I pretty much got out of the game when this technology became popular so missed this ability to check my grade from the cab so I marvel at the things that I dreamed about while I was scrambling down in the hole with my locke level or my grade stick with the receiver on it.I envy you guys.Of course the rotary beam has been around for years with its own personalty and problems but it reduces the grade checking from a two man job to a one man job which was a miracle in itself but that was quite a while ago.Spectra-Physics had the hot setup back in the day.The things that you all talk about and seem to take for granted are just marvelous to me.One thing that you learn the hard way is that the self leveling feature can bite you if you set up the tripod on frozen ground then the sun comes out. If you can disable the ability to self level and just watch that it is not out of level you are safe.Another problem is taking the laser from the shop in the morning and the guy that used it the day before did not charge it over night but of course that will be a problem today too I imagine.Thanks for sharing,it keeps the wheels turning here.Ron G
I'm well aware of the issues you speak of. Most of the better units are temperature compensating and have a height-of-instrument check built in but.....there is a reason I'm having trouble trusting anyone else to cut my bottoms. A guy has to have a "feel" for the project as well. I can find almost anyone to spread spoils but have had a few bad apples there as well. I cleaned ditches for 10 years by the seat of my pants (or water )so I have a feel for it. I had to get lasers just to get jobs. Everyone wants a laser set up on a job now. I will say .040% is tough to do by eye accurately but I have learned a few tricks that help.. Sorry Shimmy1. I didn't mean to hijack your thread.
No hijack that I can see. I quit piling my spoils about 10 yrs ago. It gets to be a challenge to spread it out good enough with the hoe if I'm taking out 18", but I make it work. Couple trips by the farmer over it with a disc or cultivator levels it nicely. How do.you like the Kobelco?
The Kobelco has been great. I feel that I got a good price for the hours/condition. I've only had it for 12 months and have put about 700 hours on it with zero issues except the ones I've caused. It is quite an upgrade from an old 1088 Case with probably 20,000 hours on it. Wore out would be an understatement. Both have the 5.9 Cummins so good engines. I keep the old rig around for back-up insurance. I used to spread with the hoe but have found it way faster to pile then spread with the dozer. Doing a 180* swing vs. a 90* swing makes a huge difference over a day's time plus the dozer does a better job so everyone is happy. I haul my own junk around so it's not a big deal to haul another machine 5-20 miles to a job. The biggest benefit is that I can concentrate on the ditch and hire someone to come out after work to push for a few hours and spread what I've piled. Some times I get hired to ditch through a planted field so minimal damage is preferred. I come back after harvest to clean up. I also do rock piles, fence lines, land clearing and other various dozing projects so it's just another weapon in my belt. Just as well keep the tracks turning.
You must not do cattails very much, eh? When I used to pile, cattails were always the enemy. Then I figured out how to flop them out of the bucket dirt side up as if you were laying sod. Everybody seemed to like that, so that was the end of spreading with the dozer. I've cleaned through crop as well. Let's a guy know he's doing it right when the farmer let's you run crop down. You haven't asked yet, but if you're wondering, a tilt bucket is the next greatest thing after the laser.
I haven't asked because I know. Crossing ditches sucks. The wider the bucket the worse. Looking at different coupler and other attachments as I type. This is my first full season doing this for a living so funds are a bit tight right now. I've owned/operated construction equipment for 15+ years and finally got sick of politics at work so walked away from a high paying job to do what I really love. 16 months and the bank hasn't called me bad names yet so I'm ok yet. I try to dump all of my spoils bottom-up. Many benefits. Cattails? Yea I've gotten into them a time or two.
I've used the dozer to carve some terrain across a field as well. As long as the depth isn't more than 6-8", it goes very well. It's amazing how much of this I do for people with 500hp tractors and 16yd mounted scrapers or even people with excavators and dozers of their own. I've found that a little more time with the laser doing a good survey of the property in the beginning really pays off on the end result. I've had many customers report a return-on-investment in the first year. In the beginning there are just sheets of beautiful black dirt rolling off the blade. Bottom is cut. Sides pushed out.
Some more tree pics Customer wanted 2 piles for a half mile tree row.
That's a lot of walking. I hate stuff like that. Are you going to burn it?
We push them with the loader after 100 yds or so. After that it takes too long for the hoe to get back and forth. We have burned in the past, but some guys prefer to let the piles dry for a couple years before burning. These guys want to let them dry. I'm good with that. They have 8 other piles that I took out a couple years ago. When it comes time, I'll have about 4 days worth of burying burn piles.
Thanks for the info Shimmy. The reason I asked was because I only saw the excavator. Definitely the way to go using a loader. I am not a big fan of burning. I guess it might be better in fields like you have but in tight areas it is no fun.
Looking good as always Shimmy! Thats a high tech grade rod on your dozer blade there Twisted
Almost done. Customer is squirming a little bit. Going to be close to $10,000. Not bad for 5 days of work.
Looks like my size of brush piles. ... a great way to get rid of the evidence. .... no body no crime. ....
Well, it's that time of year again. I figure I "only" have about 6 miles left to clean so far. This one got a little sketchy in spots.
Few more. I should have taken some before pics. I couldn't even see the ditch in a lot of spots. Average cut was 15".
Looks good Shimmy. Those are crazy distances you work with!
We have close to 100 miles of assessment drains in our county, plus countless miles of private drains. I have worked in many sections of land that had 2+ miles of drain. I'm going to throw out a wild guess here, there might by 1500 miles or more of ditch in our county. The counties around us are jealous; our county was very proactive starting in the '60s and continuing through the '80s establishing an assessment district, constructing mains, and facilitating private landowner drains. They didn't get after it, and now in their counties it's very difficult, if not impossible to clean what did get built.
Ditches look good Shimmy. The pic with your Dodge in it really gives you a good perspective of just how far you are going. Are you digging these level or putting fall on these?
They all get whatever slope that they can handle, usually set by the culverts. The curvy ditch was cut at a 0.035%, and the straight side was a 0.010%.
Made some modifications to my tilt bucket today. Had larger cylinders built this spring, hadn't had a chance to put them on. Today was the day. Cylinders on, and also installed counterbalance valves. The valves might have been enough on the little cylinders, but after researching quite a few other buckets, I decided to get bigger rams. The old ones were 2.5" diameter, new ones are 6.25". I can lift the hoe with the corner of the bucket now.
Those are some tilt cylinders
Wow! nice work Twisted and Shimmy1. Very consistent contours. I've never considered having the laser receiver on the bucket. I'll definitely give it a try. I wish we would invest in a ditching bucket. But the ditches I've worked on were a major overhaul requiring 3 passes with the banks sometimes going out 3o feet each direction so a ditching bucket would not have been a big help there. One pass in center to establish the bottom and grade, then passes on both sides extending as far as the excavator reached. I've wondered how it would have worked with a long reach excavator but just think, now that would require a high degree of skill and a high rental fee. What has worked great and fast for large ditches is just a regular digging bucket. I don't take time to get the trails of dirt, just make sure the slope is going in the right general direction, then smooth everything out with a tractor and box scraper or even a pass with a disc before going over with a box scraper. All those ugly trails of dirt and undercuts quickly disappear. Its a big waste of time trying to make it look good with a 54" digging bucket. So do you plant something in those finished ditches? Do you ever have to combat the issue of the banks eroding?
Thanks, Delectric. I've done quite a few ditches like you describe. To me, it's just dirt. More passes mean more $$$$. Only reason I would even consider a long reach is if the ground was too unstable to get close enough to the ditch, or if it had too steep of backslopes to work with the normal hoe. A long reach has its place, but on ditches like we work on, we'd need a 40 or 50 ton machine to get a big enough bucket to be productive. As far as reseeding, most of the excavator ditches are through prairie or grassland and they grow back pretty fast. A couple of growing seasons and you can't even tell it was all tore up. Sometimes the banks wash a little, but usually not enough to cause problems. The grades are so flat that there are no issues with the bottom eroding, and the less vegetation you can have in the bottom the better for water to flow and silts to keep moving.
I agree on what you say about the long reaches. We rented a Volvo 290 with 70' boom to clean out ponds. You had to pull the arm in about halfway before it was able to lift the load. It sunk in overnight just how handy it would be to have the laser receiver on the bucket. I guess I didn't think it would be able to take the bangs and jolts, but it can't be much worse than on the arm. I have a Leica MC200 Depthmaster which has never given problems over several hundred hours mounted to the arm. I see no reason why that strategy shouldn't work nearly as well as a $15,000 high tech system with multiple sensors. When doing such precision work, do you have the engine at full throttle? I imagine you aren't able to go at high speed.
I usually run on "A" mode, which I would guess is a little more than 3/4 throttle. Sometimes I run in "SP" (speed priority) which is basically full throttle. The hydrauics can pretty much do whatever you want, so throttle position isn't really an issue.
I like a good challenge. Tough slope, fence, powerline for good measure, bring it on. Glad it's done.
Cleaning out a river channel. Well, not an actual "river" like you'd think, but it's not a man-made ditch either. A waterway, that's what we'll call it.
I will say you do some very nice seamless work. Love looking at the perfection and detail.
Thanks, Doyle. Been waiting for someone to comment on the piles, but this customer wanted me to leave them instead of spread them out. Didn't save them a lot, maybe $500, but makes my job easier.
Hi there, got some silly questions. What's a tile field? And just curious how come you guys use an excavator to clean drains (ditch) out instead of a grader, to wet?
Sometimes you see a grader doing little ditches, but most of those that Shimmy is working on are so deep you'd be going back and forth so many times it's quicker with an excavator. The depth varies also, so some places a grader would work, but you'd need an excavator anyway for the deeper places. Plus getting stuck. Here's a tile field. Imagine trenches dug out in a grid to drain the whole field, or the wet sections of the field. Tile is now corrugated plastic, but it's still called tile AFAIK.
Yair . . . Neily The concept of "tiling" blew me away too when I started lurking around US and European forums. The hassels these folks put up with to get the paddocks drained is quite amazing. If you Google images "tile ploughing" you will find some amazing purpose built machines. Our American friends seem to do it with brute force where the Europeans and Russians tend pull the ploughs with winches. It is a fascinating subject quite alien to anything I have known . . . although by the look of some of the paddocks down in central NSW they could do with abit of drainage just right now. Cheers.
Hey delmer.yeah can see your point there, I guess it's just a matter of the best tool for the job. This tile business is quite interesting, any idea of the cost of it $ac? Scrub. It's an interesting idea that's for sure. your not wrong about these forums, it never seces to amaze me how much one can learn and different things you see on hef. It's a brilliant resource, great people too. Yeah bog a duck here atm, getting sick of slopping around in mud all the time. I know I've got a few earthmoving jobs to do after harvest to sort some drainage and divert water. Usually we are screaming for an inch this time of year.
Hey guys. Neily, get ready to have your mind blown. Average cost per acre to tile is around $700, more if you need to put in a lift station to get the water to the surface. I do a lot of drain cleaning with a scraper, too. Moisture and shape determine the method used. If there is water, the scraper doesn't work so well. Or, if it has too steep of sides where I can't crawl in and out with the tractor, those get the excavator too. Here are a couple pics of what I was working yesterday.
"HASSELS"??? How's your cranberry crop doing down there Scrub? What, no cranberries? how bout your rice crop? Corn/maize? I will admit the sheep industry over here (whole of the North American continent) has been on the downswing for a full century I'd guess. That has more to do with mountainous ranges than dryland ranges, also wild guesses. I wouldn't have much idea what drainage costs. None to speak of within a hundred miles of me due to topography, about 400' drop within a mile of me so not much call for it. Many of the flat ag areas are sand so they either don't need drainage, or they don't need tiling, only ditches at the section lines. So there's not the custom tiling industry that there is in Iowa, Illinois, Ohio.
I have a question for some of you smaller operators. The pictures above are from a project I just finished, it was a bid job for the city. It definitely would have been more productive with a couple of tandems hauling spoil, but I only have the sidedump. On a project like that, where the hoe is loading a truck, and sitting while it goes to dump, how would you charge? Full time while machines are on job, truck full time and hoe time spent loading, or excavator gets billed while working and truck so much per load? Cheapest way would have been working alone and running truck myself, but there was a lot of truck moving so I had a driver in the truck. I ended up with a few less actual hoe hours, but several more loads than I estimated. I'll wait to share how I bid it until some of you guys weigh in.
Yair . . . Delmer My bad, the word is "hassles". Not into cropping these days but there is a big wheat crop out there if they can eventually get it in the bin . . . unseasonable wet weather is causing concern and hassles and prices aren't that flash. Cheers.
I've always heard it called "field tile" here Same thing. It gets done in a lot of areas around me that are just flat, or don't have the room to cut a ditch.
Shimmy1. Yeah rito $700 is getting up there, country around my area isn't worth much more than that lol. Some nice work being done there.
Depends on a few very important variables. The biggest is the relationship with the customer. You have to make X amount per day, per machine on the job. Depending on how much you like to work for free after paying your equipment. Personally I like to do it all and keep it all. Unless its hourly then sign em all up!
Shimmy, I have been dealing with this issue a fair amount lately. Using an 8 hour day as an example and lets say you racked up 3 hours of actual time on your excavator. I would probably charge your excavator out at @ 5 hours and 8 hours on your truck. Like DoyleX said.... a lot has to do with your relationship with the customer. I wouldn't feel comfortable charging 8 hours for each piece of equipment and you probably can't afford to just charge 3 hours for your excavator. I usually just try to find a happy medium. I personally do most of my work by the hour and most of the time the customers don't even ask for an estimate. I had a call today from one of my best customers who I have a very good working relationship with that wanted me to tear out some concrete and use his dump truck to haul it away. I'm sure that will be a job where I take it in the shorts a little bit. Just my $.02
Thanks for the replies guys. Like I said, this was a bid job. I do not care for bid jobs, but it was for the city that I live in, and I'm a city alderman. I prefer hourly work, and pretty much everyone knows I don't mess around and my hourly work is as fair as I feel it can be. I'm generally very close with my estimates, most times I come in under. Estimates are a funny thing, though. Everybody is happier than hell to pay less than what was quoted, but nobody ever wants to pay more. These cleanouts are very difficult to guess. Sure you can take grade readings every 10' to get a good idea at what has to come out of the bottom, but the slopes are a wild card. This particular job I figured 10 loads of spoil, I hauled out 15. I figured 16 hours with the hoe, total time spent on job was 15 hours with about 10 hours actual excavator time.
I personally would charge full time with all equipment on the job, even then it would not be a get rich thing. If my company was doing similar repetitive work like that, I would have it bid per load hauled or by the cubic yard of dirt moved or something of the like, simply because one would get better and faster the more of it you did, thus taking less time to generate revenue.
Nothing ever seems to be a "get rich thing", but as Iong as you're busy, and the bills are paid, I guess that's about the best you can do right now.
Haven't posted in a while. This one has been an adventure. Never have had to wear the seatbelt to keep my *** in the seat before.
Had nice drop to work with. These 2.5 miles were a 0.045% slope.
Your gettin pretty good at that.
Thanks, DoyleX. It's been a crazy year, first you're wondering if you're going to have enough to do, then the floodgates open and you could keep three excavators busy. Feast or famine, man. I guess that's the name of the game in construction.
I hear ya. If I could find a young guy that was good at excavating, dozing, surveying, mechanicing, plumbing, wiring, showing up on time and wanted to work some crazy hours for 5 months a year but nothing for 7, I'd hire him. I actually stumbled onto one of those recently. A little rough now at 19 but a hard worker and lots of potential. Anyway. Running water. That looks funner than a fair ride! Nice straight lines on those ditches. It's a lot harder to do by the eye than most people can imagine. Easy on a scraper or dozer but hard as heck sitting off to the side with an ex. Thanks for the pics.
Well, these last 6 days have been a time to remember. Over the past year I have asked Case numerous times to check out the engine in the 210. I felt that there was an injector that was not 100%. The first time they checked it, a year ago last summer, they tried to bill us over $400 to run the injector cut-out because the mechanic claimed he couldn't find anything. I told them what they could do with that bill, and they backed off. This summer, I had an issue with the bucket closing, and while they were there I inquired again about the engine running a little rough. That mechanic also was unable to determine if anything was amiss. So, I'm working last Tuesday, and finally the problem seemed to be getting worse. Wednesday, it definitely was. Called Titan, guy came out on Thursday, he determined number 4 cylinder was not firing. I was there during his tests, and told him I also felt number 3 was trouble as well, he disagreed and said he would get A injector. As it turned out, injectors were back-ordered (shocker), and the closest one was in Sioux Falls, would take 3-4 days to get. I told him that I had been complaining about this for over a year, and that injector better be in Bismarck in the morning. It wasn't, supposedly because of the snow, so he brought it out yesterday and changed out number 4. Started it up, and what do you know, still had a slight shudder. After some more investigating, he "determined" number 3 was faulty. No ****, Sherlock. After some pretty tense discussion where he asked me several times if I really had had 2 other mechanics check it out before and both claim nothing wrong, he said he would do his best to get an injector ASAP. So, when he leaves, he says he will call me as soon as he knows something in the morning. This morning, he calls at 8:05 and says he has an injector (???????) and is on his way up. Put the injector in, and engine runs like a brand new one. 6 lost days this time of year to a problem that should have been fixed LONG ago is not good for a man's frame of mind.
Thanks, Twisted. I have to confess, I cheated a bit on this ditch. I am completely swamped with cleanouts right now, with more coming in daily, so I've been working long after dark. I have the other two guys running the scrapers, so I have had to go out in the morning and get them lined up for the day, then get to the hoe in the afternoon. The ditch is pretty much dry, so I climb down into the bottom, and walk a track the length of the ditch. Then I can use the tracks as a guide, I'm giving it a 10' flat bottom, and work as long after dark as I can stand. Last week I had 100 billable hours, not including the "manager" time for the scraper crew.
I'm kinda far away but if you're that swamped with work I can probably throw the 36" dirt bucket on this bad machine and head up to help out. You do some really cool work though, I do enjoy looking at the pictures and hearing about the projects. Here in IL most farm drainage is either grass waterways that are mowed and don't really have a "ditch" to them per say or it runs off into small creeks that cut across the landscape. If an excavator is working in a field around here it's usually taking out old fence lines, taking down trees growing in the old fence lines or growing along steep ditches. It's pretty rare to see an excavator actually digging out the ditch.
Mark13, I could sure use that old Case as is to clean up the brush around the yard
You do some fine ditch work Shimmy.:notworthy I know who to call if I ever need help with one. Have a good thanksgiving.
Thanks, Farmer. Happy Thanksgiving to you, and everyone else as well.
Everyone makes fun of it but it's as handy as a shirt pocket. It's nice to work along side a bigger machine to get in all the tight areas or do clean up work. Driving it right through the front of a building is kinda cool to.
Little winter project. This is the overcut so the plow can put the main in. In case anybody is wondering, I consider myself pretty capable with a hoe, and cutting rough grade I can't seem to make 200 yards per hour. With a 2 yard bucket. Maybe if I didn't have to open it 13' wide I could? Anyway, here's a couple pics.
Plowing tile a little deep, eh? That ain't fun. Ed
Most all tile mains around here are over 4' deep, and the plow can't pull anything bigger than 6" more than 4.5' deep. This is all 12" and 15" main. The not so fun part for me was trying to keep the build-up in the bucket less than half. I shoveled that bucket out 8 times in the last 2 days. Used oil helped, until today when it was only 15° and 0° when I quit tonight. Glad it's done.
Damn.....thats a pita. Have to have a tractor or 2 to help pull the plow? Ed
I'm not sure, another contractor is doing the plowing. I suspect by next Tuesday it will be froze a good foot on the bare ground, so I'm guessing they'll have an 8 on the front? I'll get some pics.
That’s pretty interesting. How much frost were you digging through there?
On the average about 6".
you made it look like a runway. Very nice.
Probably why I couldn't make the yardage I thought I would. Sloppy just isn't in my vocabulary.
Here is a pic of an identical plow to the one they will be using. Also, a YouTube link to a video of plowing 15" tile.
Nice work Shimmy ! Digging & grade work like that I would have had you go full depth & lay the main .
Almost the same thing my friend went thru a few years ago. Had a big dozer cut the grade for the main, then they pulled the plow machine with a 485 Steiger & 500 quad trak. Ed
I wondered why not have him dig to depth and lay the main. Why does it have to be plowed in?
Quite a few reasons. Yardage to move would be similar, but take considerably longer if trying to cut a trench to perfect pipe grade, whereas the plow maintains an almost perfect grade. You'd also have to use dual-wall pipe and be very careful filling to not damage the pipe. Dual-wall is much more labor intensive to lay as well with a joint every 20'. We could have saved a considerable amount of money if we'd have laid it ourselves, but that also involves devoting the time to the project, and having to find a few more guys to help.
that yellow one is a helluva tater digger
What a *****ng mess. I hate cleaning tracks, and since it got up to 40° today, here we are. Yay me. The corks sure make the pushing easy.
Aw heck that ain’t bad. A little time with a sharpshooter and you’re done
Sharpshooter ? Sharpshooter ? Ha, you done spent some time 'round Pipeliners!!!
I’ve dug out many a track! Sidebooms, dozers, drill rigs etc. Best thing we have now is our vac trailer. Pressure it up, stick a 3” hose on and go nuts. Hold on tight!
Hi Shimmy I use to do sub-grade excavating for highway and roads and also use to dig basements it takes a long time to be able to cut perfect or close to perfect grades for stuff like that. Often when I was digging highway sub-grades we would have a dozer go in the cut to help trim but often now I think for cuts like that where maybe a dozer isn't available a wide shallow clean up bucket like what's often used in Europe and the U.K. would work better. I looked at some of your ditching photos and found it interesting that you dig them 'side saddle' like that. We're just finishing up a busy season of ditching here in Manitoba and we almost always sit right in the bottom with the loon $hite and bail in to an adjacent field or sometimes in to a dump truck and if we can't reach like on one of the jobs I was doing in October I made a windrow along the shoulder line of a gravel road where a second machine came later with a couple tandem axle dump trucks to clean up.
Question for you catskinners that ran tractors like this 7G in their prime. Not really a good way to get the real greasy stuff out from around the shield over the sprocket, so am I going to be froze up in the morning? I was worried at first about behind the sprocket, since the final drive housing is so close, but after cleaning out and moving the tractor back and forth a couple times, behind the sprocket was clean. But, the outside was pretty well smeared like caulk around the top half.
Here we go, as promised. I shot a little video, I'll give you guys that first. I honestly cannot believe how fast they can pull 15" pipe into the ground.
I'm surprised they didn't need to pre-rip with a D10. lol I didn't even see the tracks slip as they were going.
It was pretty amazing to watch. A couple places it got tough, the 850 would jack the front end up and dig the tracks in to anchor, and then use the winch to help. That plow weighs in at about 80k, and with all that track and 550 hp, the frost just gives up. That big wedge on the front of the shoe does a lot of the work, by pushing up from underneath, the frost cracks and then it just pulls through. They claim that with just that 850 they can get through a foot, if it's deeper than that they pre-rip or call for an 8 to hook in front.
Here they are "blinding off" the hole.
I did a little work with a tile crew this past summer. Their plow was the same as that one and they had an 8K with some extra paddles welded to the grousers pulling it where needed. They trenched the 15" header with a 160 hoe and all of the runs were plowed. 50' spacing if I remember correctly. I lifted the cover the day after the lift station was installed and the water was 6" below ground level. I did most of the surface ditching on that field as it was too wet for tires. I'm glad to be done with mud for a few months.
Hey shimmy, I noticed you ditch perpendicular from the ditch every time. Is there a reason for that? Is it because the bottoms are so wide?
Too soft to sit in the bottom. Tried it just a couple weeks ago, was nearly stuck with the hoe before I got myself out.
The end of mile 7 for this season.
Halfway through mile 8
Hey Shimmy, nice ditch work.. How was your summer up there?
If every year were like this, I could retire in ten years. No lie.
Have any of you used ditching powder? My dad used it and told me about it from the late 40's and 50's. The complete opposite of these beautiful ditches, BTW. Nice work!
If you are referring to ditching dynamite, yes I have. About 30 years ago I worked for a farmer that had a wet area that we used it on. We had to quit when we rattled the dishes in his mom's china cabinet which was almost a half mile away.
I had a little cleanout job for a drainage district about 10 years ago. A bunch of the ditch was tight fenced through residential back yards with a few access spots, and I had to run down it with our mini 35 and then bail it at those spots with the 120. I can relate to the stuck thing. I got away but not by much.
And so another season begins....
Did you part ways with your Case?
I'm sitting in it.
I have just read 10 pages of your posts, and you have a sure knack for doing everything right. What Laser would you recommend that could do the work you do but without all the bells and whistles. You previously stated that you use a Spectra Precision GL722 And a LR60 Receiver if I have it right. Some models have changed now, and I understand that some work faster than others. C-mark uses a GL622 he stated in one of his posts. Wondering what would work well for a guy starting out. Any info appreciated. Was a very interesting read. Keep up the info line. You have helped a lot more people than you think. Simon C
Thanks, Simon. I'm strictly a Spectra guy. I've tried others, just don't care for any of them. It's probably a Ford/Chevy/Dodge thing, and that's fine. I use the 722 because I need the range. Sometimes I have to survey several miles of ditch, and it's a royal pain leapfrogging the laser. If distances aren't a big concern, the 622 would probably be fine. I purchased an LR50 a few years ago when I had the need for two receivers. Either receiver works good, the 50 has the tilt lights so when the excavator isn't level you can use those to judge with.
This isn't making water run, but figured I'd share a couple pics of my winter work. This site took a little over two days, it was close to a quarter mile long, both sides. The pic doesn't show it real well, but the other side behind the dozer was about 7' tall.
That looks cold.
You sure get a lot of wind drifting in your area. That looks like quite the feat to tackle if it is deep enough and long enough. Would a snow blower on the front of a big wheel loader do as good of a job or are the wndrows you made best. We get some snow but not the wide open windrifts like you folks. Keeps your buldozer working in the winter time. Simon C
A big blower would work but I think it might be a little slower depending. Did the job above just require getting a lane open so a grader could finish or clearing the whole road and pushing the snow back as well?
So do you end up loading it up afterward and putting it in your shop to thaw it out each time? Or just keep it cold? We froze up our tracked skid loaders a bunch of times pushing snow, in freeze/thaw temps and that's a pain in the ---
The road was down to one lane, and it was on a hill so it was dangerous for traffic. I pushed both sides back. Hopefully they will have enough room for the rest of the winter. If we get a bunch more big blows, I may have to shove it back again.
It depends. Last week Friday it was blowing like crazy, almost to the point I couldn't see what I was doing. I ended up taking it back to the shop because about mid-afternoon the thermostat decided to stick open. I have a little propane generator that I run on a 100 lb cylinder if it's getting colder than 15°F. It will run the generator for about 50 hours. https://orchardgenerator.com/products/Champion-200960-%2d-1700-Watt-Dual-Fuel-Inverter-Generator-w{47}-Parallel-Capability-(CARB). html It was cheap, and easy to drag around.
Do you run a heater off the generator? I guess I don't see how you're using this to help in the cold.
I guess my response was kind of confusing. C/O asked if I take the dozer home every night. Most nights I keep it plugged in off the generator.
Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. I was thinking you were using that portable generator to make heat for you some how. Plugging in the block heater didn't cross my mind.
Little more snow work. I'm thinking this little 6 will grow on me.
How much more does it push than your Case dozer? I seem to recall the county had an issue with the grab handles beside the grill. I think it had to do with branches getting caught it them and potentially damaging the grill and/or the rad.
I'm not entirely sure yet, initial thoughts are at least 25% faster. Meaning, what would have taken 10 hours with the Case I do in 7.5. The best thing is the diff steer. That little Case was a pain in the azz to make small adjustments. The Cat I just go wherever I want. And the HVAC is so much better for fogging.
Do you still have and/or use the D7 you bought that your competitor pulled a scraper with or was it was just too worn out?
It got about 10 hours this year. I just don't have work for it. With my Challengers I can run circles inside of circles around what it's capable of with the scraper. Bulk dirt moving that I do I can do twice as fast with the excavator. I trying to decide what to do with it. I kind of appreciate the legacy of the old turd, but it's just obsolete anymore.
Why aren't you using the Stieger & front blade? Ed
Because the Quad belongs to the guy I work with, not me, and most of the work I've been doing involves pushing uphill. The quad doesn't push uphill, lol. He also isn't as interested in his tractor getting hours, since ultimately it's a farm tractor. Also fine with me since I'd have to pay him about half the rate in rent. Back in 2017, this was a joint venture. In 2019, I assumed sole responsibility for the construction operation. He still owns the 210 and the RGN, everything else I've purchased. I now own 3 Challengers and Deere pans, so I won't be needing his Ashland any more either.
Partnership went bad or just went in different directions? Sounds like you're still on good terms though.
Not at all, everything is good. Construction was never in his long-term plan, he just helped me get reestablished after I left the family operation. I still help him for a couple months in the spring. It's the least I can do, since no amount of money would ever be sufficient to return the favor.
This setup works well out in the country. Can get about 40 hours on a full tank.
I remember using the earliest of the 1150's and that hi-lo for turning was indeed a PITA compared to the 6. In heavy material you just tilted it to steer in the push slot. That would not work with snow.
These aren't the best pictures, but this was today. My dad, my 13 year old son, and me. The guy taking the pics was in the 4th dozer. Winter is not giving up around here.
Danm....I'll quit complaining about our weather. Nice to know your starting your son early, they catch on quick. A friend did the same thing. He was demoing new trackhoes. The Cat salesman was not happy to have an 11 yo tell him the Deere was better...lol. Ed
'Tis the season.......
That's a beauty.
I like hopping the laser down the grade like that when possible. I am doing some deep pipe Monday and after I get the first box set I will lower the laser down there so the ground guy can see and hear it, rather than when it is poked up there above the box in the wind and road noise and whatever. We don't have a working line laser to use or I would show them how that works.
Been a minute.....
magnet target for the laser?
Um, no. LR50.
it was hiding in the first picture, you camouflaged it with goo
How’s the case holding up? I’m looking at a 210 for next season doing similar work. I’m torn between Case and Volvo. I know a couple of guys that have had their Volvo final drives implode due to walking the machine long distance.……It’s not feasible to haul the machine between watering holes for me so I just have to suck it up.
6400 hours. Put undercarriage on at about 5500. Still have injector issues about every 5-800 hours. Other than the HVAC system is needing some attention, everything else is working fine. We should probably pull the DPF filter this winter and have it cleaned.
Does it have the Isuzu 4hk engine? I can get a new 2025 model emission free here in Aus still, it’s very appealing. Do you think the injector lifespan is related to the emission systems you have to run?
I honestly don't know for sure, but I've always suspected that the problems are due to deposits being burned into the tips from the high exhaust temps required, and the higher the injection pressure (sustained engine load). I have been mostly religious with running the Deere Keep Clean injector cleaner, and this last set has ran longer than any before, over 1500 hours. But, most of these hours have been clocked with other guys, and they don't run it even close to as hard as I can.
This is a new one for me. Was too wet earlier in the fall, crop was on as well. We've done a little over a mile, about a half left. Slow going, frost depth varies, so have to switch between ripper and tooth bucket. Ditch isn't quite as pretty as I like, but I think it's pretty decent considering the conditions. Sitting home again today because can't see across the street.