I recently got a field find 50A running, and no longer blowing hose's. Issue now is drive to the wheels. I believe the issue may be that my transmission Control Valve arm does not seem to travel, or if it does, it is in less than a 1/2" play either way. How much travel should this arm have? Any help would be appreciated.
That doesn't sound unusual, but I'll come back in a couple hours and update. Did you ever see it move? or has it been immobile the whole time you've been working on it? That is, did it drive and then stop driving, or did it never drive for you?
Does yours have 2 shifters and the 2 pedal instant reverse?
Yes two shifter on the center floor panel. The lower arm below the control vale arm moves freely when disconnected from the control valve arm. As if the arm is somehow stuck between forward and reverse, it would seem.
It has never moved since I bought it. Motor is strong and when applying the foot throttle the engine powers up rpm wise.
Mine moves pretty close to 1/2" forward and 1/2" back, that is the forward reverse shaft going into the side of the trans/bellhousing, measured at the pin. Have you checked the fluid level? I think it's the angled hex head plug on the side of the trans, separate from the trans oil which is checked from the dipstick. Otherwise, it's a matter of eliminating the other possibilities besides the reverser before tearing into the reverser. So check that the flex plate is intact, through the starter hole, or remove the brace that goes over the bottom inspection hole and see if moving the torque converter moves the flywheel. Does your differential lock work? long handle on the right side of the seat, pull back then try to drive. Do you get any grinding of gears when shifting the two gear shifters? try it at idle, then rev a little forward and backward while shifting and see if there's any clanking at all, like something is trying to turn without load.
everything else now works, after a little tlc, except this issue with of immobility. I suppose I could dig down hill and roll my way somewhere, but would prefer to drive.
differential handle moves freely in and out. Maybe I need to drain the fluid and replace. When I opened the hex bolt just to the left of the arms, it ran fluid out quite fast. It may need to be pulled to level ground, one rear tire is sitting in a hole, but have it leveled with out-riggers and wheels off the ground to see if any movement of rears.
I will try the shifting and differential while trying to accelerate tomorrow when the fire dept is available for a rescue. I want to thank all for the assitance, it is good to have folks to reach out to.
How about figure out which plug on the bottom is the drain, and loosen it enough to make sure there's no water in there? if oil drips out, then there's no water, if water drips out, let it drip until you get oil, or drain the whole thing. Do you have a filter housing in the line to the cooler, or another filter housing for the reverser? can't remember at the moment. Check that to see if it's plugged, or what evidence is in there. It might be a metal screen designed to be rinsed and re used.
Don't know how that machine works but you indicated you would try shifter and diff while accelerating, I would try to avoid engaging diff lock while at higher rpms or severe damage may occur. Just my 2 cents.
I am leaning towards the draining proceedure. It seemed that way too much tried coming out the fill hole. and the filter changing or cleaning of possible screens. You guys are the bomb as we use to say. I will get you informed to my progress. Thanks again.
So here is my daily update, if interested. After believing the machine is fairly level, I opened the hex bolt on the side near the shifting linkage I have been discussing.There is a line at this bolt head that says fill level. When opened, a gusher was hit. Using a drain pan that holds an estimate of 2.5 gallons give or take. This pan filled twice and after dumping, the hole continues to give slowing fluid. I expect it to peter out in a while. This leads me to believe someone either filled this to the brim, or water filled it through the not so tight dip stick tube. I found two allen head bushings that appear to be drains, but both are too tight to turn out. I suspect if able to open, water would come out. I am tempted to use vice grips on the exposed 1/4" maybe more of thread, but thought I would post my update to the pro's and see if anyone thinks I am heading somewhere. I like to tell a story, if you have not already gathered. Bill.
Either one of those plugs will drain. There is also a hex plug ,operators left side, down from and in front of left brake. Above and inside of the plate that the allen plugs screw into is a suction screen/ filter. You have to remove the 10 bolt plate to get to it. You also should have a small cartridge filter on steel lines, left side of engine block for converter.
Water can get in thru dipstick tube, or bad shifter boots...
shifter boots, yes I see one that is defective. There is a large 1 1/6" hex bolt next to the shifter. Is this also for filling or just an inspection window. Everything looks well lubricated inside there that's for sure.
This page is going to make me better at spelling and grammar if nothing, else.
would having too much fluid cause an issue also?
Sled dog, is the oil in the converter the same as the trans? and is it checked with the hex plug on the side? or is that a remnant from the former model? My post #6 may be wrong about the fluid levels and separate compartments. High fluid shouldn't cause this issue, but if it's high because it's full of water, that could do it. Or it could have been overfilled by the previous repair attempt?
Converter, trans, diff all share same oil. Billy, the hex by shifters is fill plug
Oil checked with dipstick OR hex plug on side
Stuck shift valves could cause this, but hard to think both are stuck...
Thanks Dog. The fluid is looking discolored, not emulsified but colored and smells old and stale. Tomorrow I will pull the back plug at rear of transmission, have been syphonig out the front where I cannot get allen heads to break loose. Problbly could with grips, I might try in the morning, PB blasted the suckers and going to go apply some more. I am hoping the trans shift lever only moves under preasure, because it still feels locked down tight. Maybe some action in the old bread basket, might free it up. I got hopes, and that's about it.
The two shifters have good smooth action. It is the Trans shift valve arm I am having issues with. But it may very well not shift back and forth, unless under pressure. Will finish the draining and then re-fill at least once and see if anything changes. I may have to check the other filters mentioned.
Update - oil changed in trans diff. no change in performance. I do hear slight grinding while shifting sticks on transmission but do slip into gear easy enough. But at this point, no action to the wheels. I am still of the belief that the control valve arm is locked up somehow. Does anyone have any suggestion as to how to possibly free it so that it moves. The lower arm works freely when not attached to the control valve arm. And the name alone sounds like what I am not getting fluid through the vale or directed whatever its function is.
It may have a sheared (failed) flex plate on the engine flywheel. When they fail the engine no longer turns the torque convertor.
but would that cause the arm or valve controller to be locked in one position?
I read this online - does this make sense to anyone? Including results for how to free the transmission control valve arm on massey ferguson 50a . Do you want results only for how to free the transmission control vale arm on massey ferguson 50a ? These models have a different hydraulic control. Some came without a filter so It is not uncommon for a small piece of trash to get in the control valve and cause it to stick. To check that, drain the oil down below the bottom bolt hole of the access plate on the side with the dipstick. Remove the access plate. Move the quadrant levers to be sure the linkage is moving the vertical levers which hang down from the lift cover. There are two small levers coming up from the pump with a roller between them. With the pump turning, reach in and push the small levers towards the back of the tractor as far as they will move. Then release them, That will usually free the control valve.
That link brings up directions for TO20-mf50-65 etc. ** made a 50 tractor I believe, that is between a 35 and 65, but completely different hydraulics from this 50A. I think that's a wrong turn. My 50A only goes 1/2" foward and 1/2" back, I assume that's normal. I would check the basics before digging into the hydraulics further.
Billyman62, it's time for a pressure check. 5 inches up from the shift shaft on the side of the bell is a small pipe plug. Tap in there with a minimum of a 400 lb gauge. You want to see 150 psi at 1000 rpm. Lets find out if the pump is working. Also, the shift shaft runs thru a caged needle bearing. If the tractor has set a long time, or if that bearing has not been greased, that may be why it wont move. All the shaft does is move a spool up and down to direct oil to forward and reverse packs. Unfortunately, to remove shaft, or check spool, tractor must be split. Picture will show pump, valve body with spool, shaft and linkage
No, it will not.
Thanks for that picture, it all is now clear to me what is taking place on the otherside of the bell housing. I will do the preasure check as sugested. But I whole heartedly think the issue now is that valve arm is lock up, maybe some rust from sitting so long. This picture opens my eyes now to a direction to proceed.
You can see how much room there is for the valve spool to move, it won't go more than 1/2" or so, how far is your linkage moving? judge by the shaft in case there's play in the worn parts. on the bottom of that picture you see the inspection cover hole. on yours there is probably a structural brace that goes to the front bolster that requires a lot of larger bolts to be removed, but that's still relatively easy and straightforward. you can operate the machine without that brace in place, just don't do any heavy loading, or especially drive over rough ground that the axle reaches the stops. That access hole or the starter will let you see if the torque converter is moving on the flywheel, the pressure test will show that also obviously.
Even before you check pressure, that shaft should have a grease zerk on the end. Grease it, disconnect the pedal linkage from it, then gently try to tap it back and forth. If you get it to move, you may have found your problem.
so being able to see the insides, I felt safer using a little more hammer persuasion and I was able to free the arm so it now travels what appears to be the correct amount. I am now waiting for the battery to charge a bit and then give it a try. The picture was the key, knowing the hammer was working in the right fashion.
Billyman, when you get it started, be in the seat and ready in case the spool is not in neutral. And be sure your trans is in neutral !!
will do
So here is the update. I was able to free the lever and am now able to drive forward and reverse. I did blow another hose, this time a steering hose, and have located a few more leaks on metal lines that are pitted to the point of now leaking. I will probably play hell finding replacements, the last metal line I replaced with rubber, and it seems to function. My outlook is now very good. Everything functions, there may be leaks, but from the field to my place and some help from friends, I have got it ready to now clean-up and know it's not a lost cause. Currently with all invested, I am into it for about 2100.00. I think I did all right.
Good Dog
'sanks !!!