I haven't seen anything on here so far, and I'm just wondering what the general feelings towards this pipeline debacle are in other areas of the country. This issue is very polarizing, but as long as we follow the rules and leave the political blame and race issues out of the discussion, maybe we could get a more definite idea on where the majority of the country stands than you could get off FB or the national media. I live here, about a 100 miles from the zone, and in my area, the majority wants nothing more than for the pipe to get in the ground. Please respect Mr. Frazier's rules if you want to comment.
imo, vandalism is no way to prove ones point, doesn't give their cause much respect. Ed
For myself I simply cannot believe the mindless support for this so called protest. You try to inform someone of a few facts about this situation and you get shouted down, they're not interested they just want to protest everything. These jackwads had years to protest and complain and negotiate, or try to get injunctions or EPA action or sue, but no, they wait until the majority of the work is done and the contractors and pipeline company are on the hook for millions or billions in losses. The method will work though, if after putting in years of planning, permitting, meetings, reroutes, right of way negotiations, etc. all it takes is a group of anarchists to stop it cold, you'll damn sure not see any new pipelines proposed, who needs that kind of crap when you're gambling billions and may lose your capacity contracts for not meeting the deadline? The so called core of this is the Standing Rock Sioux, hell they couldn't be bothered to show up to the meetings they'd scheduled when the planning was done, damn near 400 meetings were held with other tribes and groups. I think maybe they woke up and realized they could have gotten some money out of the deal? Send in the guard and put 'er in the ground. Oh, and now there's supposed to be thousands of veterans on the way their to join in..... I think they're being seriously misinformed about this deal, if they go they should wind up helping the sheriffs deal with the lawless, violent, destructive peaceful protestors. Ask me how I really feel.....
Thanks for the reply, Lantrax. How about others in your area? BTW, the guard has and is involved. This is what they do to them.
Let's protest ALL pipelines!!!!! The alternative seems reasonable
My wife's cousin is in a sheriffs dept that sent a couple deputy's up to help. They came back after getting shot at and luckily only grazed in the clothing. I asked her about the eventual final outcome of this situation and she just shrugged, then about the N.Guard and it sounded like they didnt want to get too involved. Personally. Bring in the C-130 water tankers on a -30 40mph day and disperse the crowd, setup a armed perimeter and pull that pipe through.
I think people across the country are polarized about this, like it seems we are about pretty much everything these days. Blue collar workers and the like are all "What's the holdup, get it done already" and the unicorn huggers want to join the protest or at least send donations. Most have no clue as to the facts about the pipeline or the protests. It's all about the poor peaceful protesters being attacked and brutalized by the nazi storm troopers, for the corporations wanting to destroy all the water, which is pure bull. I think the "leave it in the ground" mentality is behind a lot of it. Here's a for instance locally: There was a proposed coal loading facility to be sited at the port of the town where I live, it never happened mostly because the tree huggers in Eugene protested the fact that the coal trains would have to move through their town and thousands would die and the earth would shrivel if a speck of coal dust blew off the cars. They don't want coal burned anywhere, not here and not exported, simple as that. Could have been lots of good jobs, money for the port, city, state, railroad, but nope can't have that. Yeah, I don't know if that's the fire, but I read were they burned a couple vehicles to block a bridge and now the bridge may be unsafe due to the heat damage. One gal just about got her arm blown off, they claimed it was the police using concussion grenades which sounds kinda fishy, turns out there were a couple other people with her and the investigators found several small propane cylinders nearby which looked like they had been rigged as explosive devices. Peaceful protest.
Need that german pipe rammer that'll drive the pipe from one end, scale it up so it can push all the way across, maybe a mini TBM, go down 20 feet, nothing buried down there. But yes, this has been in the news for years, back then was the time to protest, not when its banging at your front door, make some agreement, adjust the route if need be and lets get the job done.
Ain't that the truth!
I am not opposed to the pipeline. It seems snowflake generation has another poster-child issue to cling to and the rest of the world just doesn't understand. Personally I think pipeline transmission are so much safer than truck or rail that there is not a question of what is best. When I hear the argument that the pipe could leak and pollute drinking water I key on "could." Space junk could fall from the sky and bean your brains out too but I am not going to protest modern communication systems because of that. There are enough real problems to protest other than trying to make something out of this project. Dig the hole, weld the pipe, bury it and be done with it.
This is about money and only money, follow the money. Chief Wantmu Hiscut need walking away money, then everything Okie Dokey...
It sure looks cold at the camp site . https://www.facebook.com/Indigenousrisingmedia/videos/1534876746529146/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE Don't think I'll be able to attend .
those are the same idiot libs protesting president trump...they are brainwashed beyond belief...
I find all the protests interesting. Well actually I laugh my *** of at those morons. They are clueless as to what it takes to keep things going in this country as well as how much was done long before they came along and what will be done long after. Being in oil field country and Indian as well I can all but garauntee you they'd accept it with open arms. Hell Cushing, OK claims to be the pipeline crossroads of America. If the protest stayed peaceful I'd say use very limited force. The force used is pretty much in proportion to the crap they pulled if not less. I think a serious show of force, just the manpower and implied intent to use said manpower might make them think twice. But then again that assumes they have brains and are of modest intelligence. One thing is for sure, they'll be freezing their tails off soon enough! Maybe a gunship hovering over the pipeline crew? Drones making deferent flights like the old SAC Cold War stuff my old man was a part of? Too much? Sad thing is all kinds of laws have been broken by protesters but I doubt there will be any serious consequences. Pipeline company is doing things by the book and suffers millions in loss. I just don't get it. Junkyard
I appreciate Shimmy making the specific point about our rule regarding political discussion. To refresh everyone's memory: Post #14 above is a good example of what's out of bounds. There won't be another warning.
Hopefully there isn't a protestor masquerading on here. I'm sure that's what will screw this up, someone with an axe to grind will throw something atrocious up and give you no choice but to shut it down. I was kind of hoping for more response about the general feeling in other member's areas instead of personal opinions. This thing seems to have gotten traction beyond belief nationwide, and the rioters care nothing about facts, only about agenda.
Well, there's always the choice of deleting that post and then banning the offending party. Just sayin...
:beerchug
I don't think it's the pipeline specifically. I think my generation just likes to protest. So far we've occupied Wall Street, cried about student loans, and now standing rock is the cool thing to protest. At some point I may have to get involved in a protest of some sort to see if it's actually that much fun. Really the time to protest is when your making the deal. If it's not a big deal when your planning it you can't protest it once the work has started.
I support the pipeline 100%!!! That being said, I don't know if I like the extreme force used against the protesters. And yes, anyone that burned equipment needs prison time for arson.
The thing I can't understand with these anti-pipeline people is they fail to realize that the natural gas to heat their homes goes through pipelines as well. Should all those pipelines be shut down?
I think most of those protesters are more misguided than evil.
I have read that the tribal government never sent anyone to any of the public meetings beforehand to object to the pipeline. I am sure they could have had the pipeline moved away from their water supply if they had stated their concerns beforehand.
Here is a little more that you aren't going to hear by the mainstream media. I listen to quite a little AM radio. There have been a couple instances where they have local citizens call in for a morning or afternoon. Some of the stories can really put into perspective how patient and understanding the local populace and law enforcement have been. People can't leave their farms because they are afraid, either of what will/could happen while they are gone, or what happens when they are stopped by these so-called protestors on the roads. They surround the vehicles, yelling, screaming, threatening to break windows and slash tires, take pictures if their license plates, etc. The school buses have been pulled at times so their children can't get to school. The hired help has quit, either not willing to put up with the B.S. of trying to get to work, or actually fearful if their safety. Many ranchers have all of their hay left to bring home, and others can't get their grain to market. It really is kind of surprising that someone hasn't gotten killed. If this happened anywhere else, it might be totally different.
The water intake is going to be 70 miles south of the proposed crossing. The pipeline will be triple-walled, 92' below the river bottom. The pipeline already crosses the river twice more, one crossing is only 14 miles upstream of Williston's water intake.
son lives in bismarck. i saw a news article that there are three tribes there that want to break ground on a $450 million refinery in may. that legit?
That's definitely against the law. You always have the right to protest, but no right to block public roads or threaten.
Built already. Phase 1 anyway. http://m.bismarcktribune.com/bakken...cle_c31c922a-62ee-11e3-b4bc-0019bb2963f4.html http://www.mharefinery.com/progress/
I don't care what the circumstances are, If you break the law you belong in prison. There is absolutely nothing peaceful about this protest and the sad thing is that the protestors don't even know what they are protesting... I'd tell you more about how I feel but I don't want to get kicked off of here.
Big deals & property / land I really don't see any issue with the pipeline going though wherever it needs to go to move product . This could have been a simple business deal where everyone came out on top . My take on it is the Tribal leaders not showing up to the meetings is they actually think they own the land the pipeline is going though . They own it to an extent until the deal gets big enough , just like the rest of us . Time comes when you bend with the wind or break . They have overplayed there hand by letting this protest go this long in my opinion . I'm all for property rights and will side with the land owner every time . Just don't overplay it .:cool2
my understanding, is many of the protesters are from out of state, funded by warren buffet, who owns burlington northern railroad, which carries the lion's share of the crude out of the bakken. more pipelines, less trains.
Can sure appreciate those concerns Shimmy . Life can be hard enough without people blocking the way . Imagine this issue will solve itself with the weather & free market doing what they do .
Very interesting take, td25. But, the real deal in all of this is they are trying to claim that the current easement corridor they want to use is "treaty land", land they claim rightfully belongs to them. The rub, though, is there is already a pipe in the ground through there, and a transmission line. That's why they chose this particular route. There was already easement in place. That is until the Corp. decided to rescind the permit to go under the river, due to " unresolved issues".
One thing I can't understand is the protesters use fuel and or other products pushed thru the pipeline. They will be the first to get aggravated if they go to a fuel station and its out of fuel. This is the most efficient way to transport the product which lowers the cost. And besides that the last line that went through here , the owners were paid well , real well. No one wants contaminated water for these folks. Just seems like anymore the right to assemble is used for anything and everything. I recall when fuel was 4$ , I was filling my truck up and a young person was filling a small chevy of some sort. They complained about 25$ in the car , my bill was 600$. In this aspect I want all the pipelines I can get. The whole situation is just bad.
This is a very interesting thread, all I really know is what I have heard on NPR radio which is pretty firmly on the protesters side. I am curious who is really funding all those people, because i am pretty sure they ain't raising all that fuss just about water. I am also firmly in favor of property rights but it sounds like they didn't take the opportunities to worry about it when they should have. I also have to believe most of these people are misguided rather than evil, although that might be debatable seeing some of the stuff they are up to. I hope they get it built soon because if they don't this sets a scary precident in a day and age where it is so hard to get anything done like this as it is!
I have no idea if all of this is true, but it gives a counterpoint story to what most of the media is reporting on this: http://dailysignal.com/2016/11/17/t...peline-that-protesters-dont-want-you-to-know/
The tribe didn't care. It's just another pipe in the ground and they were going to be compensated. The project gets to this stage and a few of them try to strongarm a percentage of the oil from the pipeline. Buffet sees an opening and sends in his paid protesters. The tribe says "This has gone too far" and most of them want the protesters to leave. About 75% of the people in my area think the pipe is good. The rest believe anything that could make a capitalist some money is bad. I am honestly surprised at the restraint that the LEO and the local landowners have shown. I'm not sure that I could have with my property destroyed and my family threatened.
A C-130 will certainly disperse the crowd. I seen one smash the hood to bits and tear the top of the cab right off a DNR fire truck a few years ago on a forrest fire. Should slow down the protesters all right but it would be permanent. EDIT: My understanding is that the tribe was hand carried official notices of the meetings and asked for there input and still chose to ignore the meetings. What I really can not understand is if one was a true envirionmentalist one would want modern pipelines replacing 60 year old worn out ones not waiting for them to leak and then whine about it. Heard also that most of the serious protesters are the same paid sh*t disturbers that have been protesting for years and have made a career out of it.
Its truly a shame to have a violent uprising called a protest
Yup , the tribe thinks they own it . Nope ! :nono Once the easement is in place the rest is a formality . US Army Corps of Engineers will eventually approve the permit . I take my hat off to them as they seem to have bent over backwards trying to keep everyone happy on all sides . Pipeline is goin through .
The Indians were at ALL the meetings, their "water supply" is the Missouri River, there are eight other pipelines crossing in that area, the area is a utility right of way, PRIVATE property. This is all about money, who didn't get his cut.
NONE of the pipeline is on Indian land, it is in private property OFF the reservation.
That is until the Corp. decided to rescind the permit to go under the river, due to " unresolved issues". The unresolved issues has big ears and will need a new home after January 20, 2017...
This is from a tribal member that I know. The tribe was offered some money but the leadership didn't think it was enough. The Standing Rock rez is one of the poorer rez's in the area. What I was told the offer was about 20 million so that each member of the tribe could get some cash compensation and the tribe could actually bank some of that money. My friend claims the leadership demanded over 50 million and the company refused because they really don't have to pay the tribe anything. Again this is what I was told. My take on this is the tribal leadership is trying to play the company for more money. I believe that not only is Buffet most likely funding this but federal government inaction is due to someone with great power paying Buffet back for past support. Same reason the Keystone project is still on hold. Although it's supposed to move oil out of Canada the ND oil patch will also be able to ship some oil through it once completed. If what I was told is true the tribe needs the money. 20 mil is way better than nothing! As far as the young woman who was injured: The description of her arm being shredded indicated shrapnel wounds. A concussion grenade doesn't produce shrapnel. In fact the cops don't use concussion grenades and haven't in some time. They are too powerful for use on civilian targets. What they use are "flash bangs" They produce a blinding flash of light and low concussion to disorient a bad guy. Neither an older concussion grenade or modern flash bang are very effective outside. They are meant to use in enclosed areas. If a flash bang was to go off on you it would hurt and you would have some burns but that's it, no shredded flesh. So if she was messing with a propane tank converted to use as a bomb she is no longer a protester but now a terrorist by definition of law! I did see in the news that one woman from CO who was arrested at the protest was in possession of either a gun or ammo. She is a convicted felon and is being held for "felon in possession". So you have a terrorist with a bum arm and a felon in possession as part of these protestors. I smell trouble brewing! I did hear today that they may be activating the ND National Guard. Hope they don't get sent out there with empty rifles. Rick
Some of the Guard has been there for a couple of months already. I have a friend that has been there twice. He is a MP. They called up a large number that headed out Monday.
He's not the only one, all around the country, there are entities funding "protests" such as George Sorros, Warren Buffet, etc. Heck, there's been craigslist add for rioters for hire.
Personally I doubt it's Buffet, or anyone connected with Berkshire, but definitely some billionaire or group. YMMV
Yes, I agree. That's kind of what I meant when I said that they had not addressed it beforehand. An actual environmental dispute probably could have been worked out in the planning stages.
Yep, probably not Buffet. He has enough money that he could invest in the pipeline and make money off of it, it's no skin off his nose. I'm thinking it's environmentalists. And also third-party politicians desperate for attention.
http://www.inforum.com/news/4170411...ational-vets-group-plan-join-pipeline-protest Here is a good one, too. https://www.sayanythingblog.com/ent...-misinformation-nodapl-protests-floor-speech/
I can't find it now, but I read an article about farmers having livestock chased, and killed. Fences cut faster than they can fix them. The thing is that they were talking to a Buffalo farmer. I farm, and have livestock, and I have a neighbour who has Buffalo. Beef cattle will mess you up pretty bad when they are spooked, or if you get between a cow and her calf, things can go bad for you in a hurry. Buffalo on the other hand They will kill you. There isn't a game fence made that will stop an adult buffalo. If they want to be on the other side of a fence, they will be on the other side of the fence. The neighbour tells me that the only thing that will keep a buffalo in is a cement fence 12 feet high. Best thing is to keep them happy with good feed and water and as long as they are content, they will stay put. But don't go in the pen on foot, on a horse or on a quad, They will run you down and it will be very painful when they catch you. Truck or tractor, and don't get out when you move them around. What are the trespass laws like down there? Are there any Dairy, or Hog operations near by? They could do like the europeans do and spread manure on them. The liquid is the worse. It would be difficult with the freezing temps. Wet bedding from a dairy barn or chicken barn would work as well. Its not going to hurt anyone, just make there life a little more miserable. Freezing cold, smells like s*** sounds like a good time. I'll add a video so you can see what I mean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfiL_kiGRSk I'm all for a good conspiracy theory. I don't think Warren Buffet would get his hands dirty directly. But it does make sense that he'd want to keep shipping as much as possible by rail. Keep the profits going.
Seems like indians have always got the short stick. But the pipeline is for the good of the whole country. Anyone disrupting it should be arrested,no one should have there equipment vandalized like that those people doing that are criminals and should be delt with.Why don't the veterans protect the pipeline workers and equipment?
read this. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...15-billion-from-bnsf-show-railroad-came-cheap
If they could ever prove that a person hired the protesters , and these protesters had caused harm or death to others , could the person that hired them be charged in any way? They should in my opinion. Often wonder if the native Americans had held on how would things be in todays time. After reading some of these articles , it does seem the problem or root of all evil is money. I'm glad I live in a relatively calm part of the states.
The could be charged with domestic terrorism, conspiracy, bribery in some cases, and possibly treason.
Mother Nature is letting her hair down today. 75% of our state is shut down. Snow is 2' and more anywhere you go, roads are impassable, temps are almost to single digits, and winds are sustained at 30+ mph. And, just like we predicted, now the protestors are collectively sh**ing there pants, asking for help. The casino is out of food, the camps are out of propane, the public is being forced to set up shelters in school gyms in the area. And yet they continue to blast the local law enforcement, the national guard, the governor's office, the county road departments, and the NDDOT. When is enough, enough???
I just was listening on the radio to a cop being interviewed that has been sitting out there for 2 months with only a few days off. He said that only 8% of the protesters are from N.D. and even less are natives. Law enforcement from 6 states have sent help but he claims that many parts of N.D. are going with no or little law enforcement because of the personnel tied up at Cannonball. He also stated that the elders are telling the protesters to go home but they refuse. The biggest bunch are from CA, OR, and WA. Also a fair amount from Michigan with the rest scattered among many states. He mentioned that there are many high dollar sport utes and wagons being driven by the protesters coming in. Burning gobs of fuel does not seen to be a concern to many of these self discribed "envirionmentalists". Even if the protesters leave there is the multi million dollar drill system in place to drill under the river setting in place that will be provided 24 hr. protection from vandalism. Incidentally the closest gas station is owned by one of the tribal leaders and it remains a very busy place. He also stated, as Shimmy1 did, that there is no one going anywhere today.
I could put up a link, but if you really want to find them, the page is right there. I absolutely LOVE the "let's get it together" comment. Maybe they should heed their own advice, no?
They are lucky its not -20. :falldownlaugh
They were interviewing a bunch of clowns out there on the local news from the east who had never been in a "real" blizzard before. Probably the same morons that almost froze to death on lakeshore drive in chicago a few years ago. Two weeks ago you wanted to burn the police and guard. Now you want their help. I think most everybody with northern common sense thought this would be the eventual outcome on the prairie.
Roger that, DoyleX
I'm all for the pipeline. It's a win/win for everyone. That said. Darwin is coming for them and he has Mother Nature swinging her bat. I have no ill will towards anyone but sometimes we deserve our consequences. Prayers for the innocent, and the rest, well.......
We need to figure out the perfect TBM solution, nothing above ground and zip, done, not even disturb an ant. Fastest protester turn? Night video of a protest where a protester with a sign gets Mowed the F down by a car moving at surface street speeds, they went from F the police and kill cops to everyone calling 911 and wondering why the cop in the mall across the way isn't coming over to help. It was rather hilarious.
The river crossings are generally done by horizontal directional drilling, there is usually very little disturbance at the surface. And they can go a lot deeper than open cut. The pipe will be 90feet below the bottom of the river, it's not like boats can hit it or anything.
And as I understand it, triple wall pipe, so you essentially have two separate redundant containment systems on the off chance it does take a notion to leak?
Yeah but do it from a few miles away, like oil drilling but bigger Set up the dozers and a sacrificial excavator, even grade stakes to distract the dump trucks and bore the hole from far off to the side someplace, a couple innocent looking connex boxes.
Or dig a ditch about 20' deep by 20' wide around where the crew is working, the protesters couldn't get past that.
Or just arrest the law breaking ones and actually prosecute them. Its high time that law abiding workers should be able to do the work they are hired to do without harassment. Today a tribal elder asked them to leave as quick as they can get shoveled out and pleaded with them to leave the grounds as they found it. How many do you think will stay and return it to it original state? Time will tell.
Makes sense to me.
Shimmy ... Did someone want fuel for their SUV ? And propane ? From the ND Nat guard ? ND taxpayers should be up in arms. Nice warm buses ready to take them to nearest criminal detention facility. Too bad their vehicles will be there till Spring. I'm Just waiting for the new Trump administration to clear the way for the pipe line.
How many burned SUV's equal one large excavator? My logger co worker crewed a job where they had to deal with this back when tree occupying was just getting popular, his boss who is a bit off center just fired up the saw and started the back cut, told the guy he could come down with the tree or without, some scrambling ensued. This was before cell phones so they couldnt call for help. I have dealt with vandals and protesters on a large subdivision in the west hills, its private property and the owners had serious cash, everyone that was caught did jail time.
let all the protestors freeze to the ground and then just doze them into a big pile in spring, use them as backfill...well then theres the problem of them being toxic...:laugh
Clean up after protest . What a mess ! Some contractor will make a little money on that job . http://www.kvrr.com/2017/02/15/u-s-...nding-cleanup-crew-to-main-dapl-protest-camp/ https://phys.org/news/2017-02-corps-cleanup-oil-pipeline-protest.html Shimmy 1 , I've been looking at this whole protest situation the wrong way . Looking at it from an heavy equipment business approach if a feller had an idea where the next protest would spark up we could just follow these people around the country and bid on the clean up job after they pull out . Business card might read similar to " Paladin's " http://www.thrillingdetective.com/paladin.html "Have Excavator - Will Travel " Hard part would be working in regular customers in between protest events . Would hate to tell the customer " we can't do your pond project this month due to a protest clean up " . Random thoughts , LOL ! Sorry tax payers , your flipping the bill
That's funny. I'm just glad it appears to finally be over. Mother Nature has been fairly cooperative over the last week, and from the pics I've seen, cleanup is going pretty well. Native grasses usually recover, as long as the Corp keeps it sprayed to prevent weeds from choking it out. ND law enforcement costs to date are over $40 million.
and if they were building casinos out there for the American indians, they would be celebrating...its all about the $$$, they will offer to build or finance something for the native American Indian, and all will be good...
Any idea where the protesters are moving to next ? Good to hear it's over Shimmy1! With all that snow you had this winter I figured the " weather gauge " would end the protest at sometime .
Maybe they will go to Chicago and stand between the gangs that are killing each other. Ah, no chance I suppose.
Personally , I could give a rats ass if there are any weak spineless cheese sucking masked protesters in here . I feel the same about them as I do about {Religious reference} , rats , fleas and mosquitoes. I'd dig a hole, shove them in and back fill it. Basically, anyone who feels the need to preach to me or keep me from going about my daily activities is a threat to me. Enough said...
The Forum Rules have served us well since this board started. Let's not start forgetting them now.
I'm glad this ship has sailed. I have a little friend that is or was all about stopping and complained about the treatment of the Native Americans. She drives a sizable SUV. I pointed out the fact we needed these lines to keep her rig moving , she replied it uses E85. Seeing as I could never win that one or even come close I said well thanks for helping protect the environment. I did ask if she was participating in the trash cleanup. Once again got a puzzled look. On her FB she stood with standing rock , and that's great , but I found more information about the situation right here.
shimmy, i heard the only reason the local natives put up with that b.s. was they want a bridge from the casino across the river to 1804 and thought they could swap bridge for shutting down protest?
Hadn't heard that one yet. I'm just glad the circus appears to be over. People can get on with their lives, and soon oil will be flowing in a pipe to a refinery, instead of in a mile long train at 40 mph two blocks from my house.
Only 40? Time to get some upgrades on that track, everyone knows that trains at 60+ is so much safer and easier then a dirty old pipline!
My .02 I have a soft spot for Native American Indians. So, If the Indians do not want it crossing their land, go around their land.
When oil prices were up I had at least 3, 100 car unit trains full of crude going 150' behind the house every week. CN was taking them to the Marathon refinery in Detroit from Alberta. Prices down, no more oil coming thru. I sleep better. Now I just have the death train hauling chemicals to Dow in Midland. Ed
Pipeline is not crossing their land. It is following an existing right-of-way, on land owned by the A.C.O.E.
If the pipeline is not crossing Indian land, why are they upset about it spoiling their sacred land? Is the existing right-of-way land that was taken from them long ago, what is their issue?
That it will pollute their waters
You just asked the two questions EVERYBODY here in ND wants to know........ If you have the answers, please share.
Only thing I can figure is the Tribe still thinks they somehow own /control the ground where the rite of way / easement is ? Some land owner or entity " Tribe" signed a piece of paper years ago giving a utility company the right to cross the ground with whatever ? Once that easement is in place there is nothing to argue about . I got a call from a power company today informing us they would be doing some work on power lines crossing our land that we "kind of own " Let us know when they would be in the area and asked if we had any issues with it or input ideas on access routes . Guy was using professional courtesy dealing with the landowner even though he has legal right to do cross any time given the easement in place for the power lines . Ran in to this years ago on a sewer line installation for a subdivision the town had just incorporated . We got the job installing the main line , manholes , & sewer hookups to the homes . First thing I asked the town counsel was " Are easement's in place " ? Got allot of blank stares & head turns then one member piped up & said " don't worry about that , we will take care of it after the job is done " ? *** ! I tolled that cat quick I aint steppin foot or digging on any part of this job until landowners sign off on a temporary "construction easement " giving us room to work and a permanent easement in the end and recorded in the county courthouse . Amazing how miss informed some elected officials are . LOL! " we will get the easement after the job is done " . What a lame ass
One speculation involved someone who interviewed a protester, they weren't associated with the tribe and were just trying to help. Now it makes me wonder if they are more of the 'paid protesters' funded by the big money. One might think, one might infer something is afoot. Also, I'm not sure I know any fellow Native Americans that would willingly leave a giant pile of garbage unless the Standing Rock Sioux tribe has lost all respect for the earth. I would not think that is the case. http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/11/warren_buffett_and_the_keystone_decision.html On topic, I enjoyed watching the cleanup, first burn the villiage just like Sherman then scoop the rest into dumpsters, I bet that was a fun contract to have.
Shimmey, you asked originally how area's felt about this issue, so far you've gotten many personal opinions, I'll give you an area's opinion seeing how its been a topic of discussion locally for some time. With regards to the moderators rules, it'll make it hard to give you an exact answer without being banned, but most of the local area is wanting to know HOW this protest can be done in the first place, second is why not only local law enforcement, but state law enforcement have allowed it to go for so long and so far, not to mention federal whatever you want to call them, and lastly, why hasn't anything been done about it in general and why haven't those protesting been arrested and should have been through the legal system a long time ago? Our hats are taken off to all you locals out there for not only having to put up with this, but doing so peacefully, we certainly don't see any other sector of the country being forced this inconvenience upon them and behave like you locals out there did, there would be bloodshed had it happened anywhere else in the this country. The locals out there are certainly fine folks indeed and as far as we're concerned in my area, far too good of neighbors and people to be taken advantage of like that, and that's not just my opinion, but the majority of anyone locally I've talked to, we feel you've all been let down, used, taken advantage of, abandoned by everyone everywhere and still did it with dignity and grace and are now forced to pickup the tab on the whole thing, talk about injustice. As for the cleanup....................I have a few suggestions as to where all that garbage should be put, and at this point, cost shouldn't be a worry, but that will never happen, that's against the law and anyone attempting it would be fined, put in jail and made an example of for the rest of the nation to see.
I agree with Randy88. His right on about the opinion of the working folks around here also. But then we got the same thing with the protesters shutting the freeways down in Minneapolis by standing all over them. It seems that unlawful civil disobedience is for the most part overlooked by the justice system. If the cops do arrest them, the legal system lets them go anyway.
Cops generally arrest when they have reason to expect a successful prosecution. Otherwise they are just wasting their own and everybody else's time and money. And there is only so much to go around. So with something like this that is very political they may have a plan from higher up on what is to be done, when and why to be arrested, what lines to be drawn in the sand. They have to be very cautious in this kind of situation because if they do anything wrong they will be drug through the mud every which way by the news, courts, attorneys, etc. And decisions that have to be made in a split second will be analyzed and sliced thin again and again in the courts and in the news for years down the road. I don't envy that job.
Police also have to be careful about approaching a Citizen that knows more about the law then the Officer enforcing it .............. HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks for all the replies, guys. Birken, you've laid it out perfectly. Only thing I would add is a huge THANK YOU to our law enforcement here in ND, and any others who came from out of state to volunteer. For these men and women to put up with what they did during this mess and keep their cool is nothing short of a miracle. To be screamed at, spit on, to have rocks, nuts, bolts, whatever thrown at them, and not get pushed over the edge is truly unbelievable. And then, after dealing with it all, to be vilified and smeared on social media and other outlets, while still having to go out there everyday to do their jobs. I'm just glad it's all over.
I stumbled on this video today and it reminded me of this thread. This guy is trying to trailer his bobcat back in november I have a hard time with these protesters that wont get out of your face These modern day activists are all about the show, not the substance of the argument youtu.be/skkxiT5hJ4M
protestors need to be delisted just like the wolf to control there numbers.............