Again, more complaints about our local JD dealer and their product support (service). Its been really bad here for several years but its getting to be almost constant now. For example...…….. I had a new customer call me about 2 weeks ago with a drive issue on a 650J dozer. Intermittent codes coming up for transmission TCU power loss. The customer said he had taken this dozer in on 3 occasions in the last year and had spent a total of $4500.00 and still no resolve. After getting some code definitions from King JD (lol) ….the first thing I did was remove the cover over the fuse panel to find..... It doesn't look to me like this was ever even looked at as this machine was just at the Deere dealer 2 months ago. Started removing the fuses and the corrosion was just pathetic. Cleaned the fuse box up, replaced all the fuses and WAHHHHLAAAA! Success!
The customer , when he showed up and I showed him this, went on a 15 minute rant about why that wasn't checked by Deere. I had no answers for him. Another new customer calls me this last Saturday. After attempting to get the dealer out to look at his 333 skid loader for 2 months, had finally give up. I again, endured another rant about Deere here and their unwillingness to assist smaller customers with service issues. I haven't seen this machine yet, but am expecting something similar. My question is...……...Is this just a super bad service dept? Or...…..is this type of stuff going on nationwide? I'm hearing customers here saying they will NOT do business with Deere here again until something changes, which doesn't look like will happen anytime soon.
who cares.?? its money in your wallet.. Letm be as sh!!ty as they wanna be..just as long as the parts dept delivers.. when u need parts to fix their fk-ups.. The thing I would be concerned about is.. WHY your #2 on their call list..?? knowwhatImean..??
I would say its a systemic problem through every industry...they cant get good employees and are stuck with getting bodies to fill empty spots...just like bringing your truck or car to the dealer for service..its hit or miss who works on it and if they even have the training or knowledge to even trouble shoot the problem....it seems if they cant hook up a computer to tell them what to fix they are at a lose till a mechanic with a brain can look at it...
Pity the poor mechanic with a brain that works at the dealer. He has to run around and babysit all these other guys and try to get his own work done as well.
I agree BV . The Deere dealer around here has one guy that knows his trade, customer realize this and request him on their job. They are gonna burn him out. Between being requested and cleaning up behind others( likely making the same money he is) it is inevitable.
Just had this conversation at a conference I attended last week. Baby boomers moving on, skills gap happening from management decisions on replacements and training, no or little mentoring of new people, plenty of better higher paying jobs in more comfortable atmospheres, completely different perspectives on the lives that young talent wants to live and finally, totally different moral and ethical compass. There are some good people in the pipe line but it will be some years before they hit the peak years of their careers. The equipment industry has to face up to the fact that talent will require higher pay, more training and plenty of time to mature into the jobs. In the mean time I might suggest you raise your rates as you are going to be in demand for some years to come.
I'm going to say also, that its not all on the mechanics. While Vetechs63 picture is really sad, I think the manufacturers are also partly to blame on this. The company engineers want to redesign everything every year (otherwise they wouldn't need so many engineers would they?) Epa is forcing ever increasing emissions standards, so we keep having engine and transmission changes. Who hasn't heard of people having to "reflash" their machine to the latest update, before they can even begin to fix what's wrong, that kind of stuff isn't on the mechanic. Oh- and there's the ever popular- I don't have the right cord/ plug/ software/ computer to read your machine, its the old/ outdated/ obsolete style..... The models and engines change so often, its got to be hard to get good at fixing any of them. My Grove tms300 was built as the same basic machine, from 1973, until the early 90's. That's 20 years of production, the tms 250's had a similar production span. You could get cummins big cam, or detroit 2 stroke power- engine designs that started before the crane model and lasted after their production. With a eaton/ roadranger type trans, and rockwell or eaton rears. Today its not unusual to see 2 year production runs, then that model / computer control system, completely abandoned for the "new". Same with engines and transmissions. We see all kinds of different versions of auto shift type transmissions, and none of them have long production runs, compared to the simple eaton/ roadranger transmissions. I admire the guys that can dive into any type of electronic systems and are comfortable diagnosing them, I'm not that great with them. And the young guys getting going, no one wants to pay for "learning" time. Sink or swim, throw them into the deep end and bill for all their time.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but the big issue I see these days has to do with actually doing some wrench work. One guy comes out for a hard start problem, plugs in a computer and says nothing is wrong. Turns out the engine has oil being blown out the breather. The guy didn't know anything about checking crankcase pressure and just left the job without a clue.
The Case dealer in town has a couple really good mechanics, one is quite young but very good. The others have very little knowledge and seem to have no common sense. I have seen a couple things that they said were not fixable to the customer. I looked at it and ten minutes had it fixed. I bought a backhoe from a different dealer, when I demoed at their store the air conditioning didn't work. Told them I would take it when the air was working. They delivered it no air, the hauled it back returned a few days latter still no air. They sent a mechanic up and a fellow who who does air conditioning. Pulled the seat three of the four ducts were plugged with dirt and gravel. The fan was replaced and it worked then. It seems that some just want to do as little as possible switching parts instead of finding the cause or the problem.
Here again the manufacturers are driving towards the 'parts changer' tech... make everything modular more or less that a simple part change will fix it.... most of the time I started running into parts changers many years ago... they didn't know how something worked but by god they knew they could fix it if they changed enough parts
Since ya'll got the inept tech thing covered......the engineers at Deere should be drawn and quarterd for not sealing that fuse panel. ***? Where do they think a dozer operates? Ed
It is not just problems with the service side of dealers. I gave up on the local orange tractor dealer due to failure to resolve a total cluster fu.. that could have easily burned my CTL from technician incompetence. I purchased a new compact orange tractor in December from another dealer. There was a delay in delivery waiting for additional remotes. Picked the machine up last Friday and the salesperson was away at factory training. The machine was paid for in December with exception to the remotes. The only salesperson there showed little interest in delivery but sure collected the remaining funds for the accessories. There was no sales paperwork manuals or documents available. I loaded the machine myself and never got a thank you. Closer examination revealed the bucket level indicator missing, paint scratches that looked like a kindergartener touched up, a gouge in the vinyl seat and deep rusted gouges in the ROPS. I doubt the machine left the factory like that and I suspect took place at the dealer. I spoke with my sales rep today who was not happy with my experience and was willing to help but I surmised was not surprised. While this was no 100k purchase it was as expensive as a small car. Unfortunately I think this is just the way it is today.
Vetech63. That is some half-assed design on that fuse block by John Deere. *** The idiots at Deere could have at least mounted that block in a Tupperware container with a snap on plastic lid to protect it from the elements. Boat mechanics do it all the time and I assure they are no multi billion dollar operation like Deere.
Have a friend who is the head diesel technician at a Ford Dealership. A few years ago for some reason the owner seemed to look the other way when then the shop foreman was charging customers for work that was supposed to be done but never was. Another friend who worked there as a mechanic brought up the subject and subsequently left because they wanted to keep quiet about it. Things like coolant or trans. oil flushes. They'd top the fluid up but charge for a complete flush and fill. The apprentices and/or shop helpers just did as they were told by the foreman. Thankfully that foreman is gone and things have improved drastically. The local Kubota dealer here is pretty useless too.
My father was shopping around for a skid steer and out of all the dealers he went to, only 1 would give him the time of day. I guess unless you're buying $1 mill/year worth of equipment you can GFY is the new attitude these days.
As an owner of a machine, tractor trailer, car, even a lawnmower.... You are at the mercy of corrupt dealerships and mechanics if you don't know anything about what you have. It pays to educate yourself so you don't get charged for blinker fluid. No one fixes anything any more. A lot of mechanics are just parts replaces. There were even guys in our shop. Won't start... New battery, new starter.. I guess it was just corrosion... Oh well they got lots of money. I will say this, we have had great service from Cat, Strongo, Sancton, and Deere. Our L70G has been a nightmare with the regen system. Last storm she had to be hauled back to the shop. The fix was going to cost about $15000 just for parts. The Volvo tec put us in touch with a guy who would do a delete on it. Said he knows his stuff and stands by his work. Came to our shop yesterday and did the deed. Looking into getting a few trucks done
As for salesmen not wanting to talk to sub $1MM customers, maybe there is a reason for that. Perhaps most of the potential customers they talk to waste so much time, or try to beat them down so hard, it is not worth it for them is how they feel. Otherwise you would think any good salesman would be all over any potential customer where they can make money, the only explanation is, for some reason the money is not there.
Most dealers he went to didn't even bother to send a quote or SFA to him after looking at machines on the lot. Never heard a word back whatsoever. Even when he sent an email to them to follow up it was ignored most times. Like how long does it take to type out a quick quote and attach a pdf with machine specs and click send? 15 mimutes? They all lost out on a sale because of it. Laziness IMO.
Even if you are buying millions of $ from them the GFY attitude is still there. Don't ask how I know this.......... The local Cat dealer was planning on quoting and requesting a PO to send a Tech Communicator to a customer job site only a few days ago. I almost had a conniption.
It's not just equipment dealers. The place I worked for was the largest industrial supplies outfit in Canada. They are owned by an American company. Their new operating model is not to have stores where customers can just walk in and buy what they need. They want customers to contact a call center (talk to someone different every time) and items will be shipped direct to them. Sometimes the customer just wants to get what they need and be on their way without having to wait till the next day or even 4 hours later. Also gets rid of walk in customers. They're too busy trying to help out larger accounts to realize how much money they could be making off walk in sales. Customers can go in a branch but even if the branch has what they need they have to come back in 2 hours to pick it up. Who's going to do that when they can drive a few blocks to somewhere else and buy it. In Alberta one of their competitors was a couple blocks away from where I worked. They had lots of stock and always a line up of 10 customers or more. They had to have at least a dozen counter sales staff and they had trouble keeping up sometimes.
We are dealing with Case IH at the moment and it is terrible. We got a new maxxum 150 last fall and it has been nothing but trouble. Every time the dealership comes out it is a joke problems not solved and no one there cares. In the end they told me the machine is designed to do what it is doing and when i ask why the owner's manual says otherwise i get no answer.
I know at our dealership when things slow down and the going gets tough, it is the little guy who keeps us going, not the mega contractors. Fortunately we have a service manager who treats the little guy the same as the big guys. If a little guy comes in with a repair then a big guy comes in, the big guy has to wait his turn. Our theory is you never know when that "little guy" will become the next "big guy" and that turns into machinery sales because of the way he was treated as a little guy.
We had one of our “little guys” just do that went from a few pieces of older equipment to placing their first order buying several new machines at once this year.
That's the mindset I have. Treat me like **** now, expect me to tell you to screw off if you come asking for my business later.
Oh I hear ya Dave. We had a large industrial supply store in town. They closed the doors and left so we had to deal with one 100 miles away, but it was not too bad since they had the traveling sales guy that would come by and deal with stock orders and issues. They got rid of him and now they want nothing but online sales. The warehouse guys do not have time to deal with this, sit at the computer and page through their immense online catalog to find what they need. And if you have a return, just forget it. So the warehouse manager made it real easy for the supplier, told them to get the sales guy to stop by every week and deal with his issues, when they said there was no sales guy, he told them to get stuffed. Picked up the phone and called the competition, they were there within the hour.
Welder Dave, Sounds like what Fastenal did here.
I worked with a guy who was a manager at a Fastenal here. On his Linkedin he says he never realised he was a magician... Always having to pull rabbits out of a hat. I worked at AGI which I would guess is who wornout wrench is referring to. They were a billion in sales a few years ago with around 175 stores. Now they're down to 31 will call locations. Wouldn't be surprised if the name gets changed to just Grainger. One of the long time branch managers, who was forced out, said the question was asked about the name change. I know a guy who's family owned a chemical company that was their largest supplier of private label products. He said they are so far down the list now they aren't even in the top 15. Another big problem they have is stock or should I say lack of stock. If you have to order something from an approved vendor that isn't in the system it takes a minimum of 90 days! Even items that are in the system take way too long if they're out of stock. The little guy goes into a shop or a store and gets good service, he's going to be telling his friends and others he knows in the business and that's the best advertising there is. Another scenario is the employee's from the big outfit come in to buy something because that's where their employer buys from. They stop by a store and are told they can't just pick it up and have to come back in a couple hours. What happens when the employee tells the boss and the boss isn't happy. The boss has the power to drop them as a vendor! I've seen that happen. Guys are working on a job close by, need something so go the store to pick it up and then told they have to come back. Go down the street a couple blocks to a competitor and get what they need. Boss isn't happy so switches to the vendor that does walk in sales and allowed his crew to keep working.
Parts changers have been the norm for a long time now sadly. I bought a Ford Excursion with inoperable four wheel drive. Ford dealer had replaced transfer case and shift motor for several thousand - not fixed. I checked electrical, working correctly. I pulled out my vacuum gauge, found none making it down to the axle. Followed vacuum line to a mouse eaten section inside the fender. Fixed... I've done similar easy diagnostics countless times after parts changers failed to fix problems.
Ah, parts changing! I keep waiting for it to become the next great Olympic event.
Hahahaha!!!
I don't understand how customers put up with parts changing. They paid the mechanic to fix it, not to change any particular part. Change a bunch of parts and hand them the bill. Those parts better be either the cause of failure or affected by the failure. So many stories sound like "mechanic came and changed x, y, and z and charged $x,xxx to do it and it is still not fixed." Why even pay the bill?
I know.. hear it all the time for the most part people don't have a clue when it comes to mechanical things... or anything but their smartphone... and even with that all they really know how to do is input preprogrammed responses like a trained monkey...
Parts changers get away with it because knowledgeable owners and managers are also in short supply. As long as owners and managers don't educate themselves, they will get the kind of workers that take advantage of them. The repair companies are not going to do anything about the problem because the parts changer brings in revenue. The economy in the current state also plays a roll. If the machine is down and there are few options other than the dealer, what are you going to do? Lately I've been trying to get a list of independents that might be available. Most pickup a single customer that pays well and they end up kind of captive and have no reason to look elsewhere for work. The expectation of guaranteed fast top quality service is a thing of the past. Now you take your chances and put up with what you get.
John C, you are definitely right. I know of three good independent mechanics in one small town. They are all skilled. They all do not take on any new work that they do not want to. None advertise. None have to. One is quite young. It amazes me. Not too far up the road is a small independent shop. Used to do service calls. They do not need to now. A good mechanic ought to make a fine living a lot of places. The main obstacle is technology once a little experience has been gained.
I’m an independent mechanic and I can tell you there’s no shortage of work in my area. There is a few other independents around here that mainly work on trucks and I mainly work on equipment. The only advertising I’ve done was ride around and hand out business cards when I first started. I’ve got a couple dozen customers but like John C mentioned I’ve got a couple large customers who keep me busy and I don’t have to chase money so I cater to them and fill my time in with smaller customers.
I am just ending my 28th year of self employment. I have never had to advertise as word of mouth has always done it for me. I have lots of customers over the years, from the large companies to the farmer down the road with 1 tractor. Some things I have learned over the years, good and bad are listed below..... 1. Every customer is important to your business. Too many times in a economic slump, my large customers slump with it. The "little guy" has kept me operating on more occasions than I can even remember. Their loyalty also is second to none. 2. Don't let customers do your troubleshooting. I have chased my tail for hours by listening to "I changed those filters already" or "We already checked that." Just DONT do it. 3. Do GREAT work, don't be sloppy and dirty with what you do. Especially with new first time customers...…...The first impression is always what they remember most. 4. Be Johnny on the spot as best you can. Keep your customer informed of what's happening with their machine and do your best to be timely with their repair. Being a one man show this can be tough and I have to balance this quite often. I cant be 5 places at one time. If I tear down a customers machine for a repair and have to wait on parts, I inform them of this and give them a possible day I will be back to make that repair for them. If something happens and I cant make that particular day for whatever reason, I notify them of the change. They understand you have other customers to take care of and sometimes emergency breakdowns occur that need immediate attention...….but they need to know where you stand with THEIR repair and know that you are on top of it. 5. Return calls! That is the most irritating things to a customer. 6. Be friendly REGARDLESS of how a customers attitude is. We all have bad days and your customer does too. It may or may not be directed at you, even though it may seem that way. 7. Beware of parts people. They know part numbers. There is a good chance that if you order a part by phone, with them having to look it up themselves...….its more than likely going to be WRONG. 8. Leave the job better than when you left it. I carry a small trash can in my truck. If I see trash around the machine, even though its not mine, I will pick it up. If it is in the cab of the machine I worked on then I will clean that up also. 9. Inform your customer when you have their machine ready, If you noticed other potential problems that may or may not need immediate attention....INFORM them of these items. I would say 30% of my work is due to this alone. 10. Can you tell I'm OCD with some things?
Nothing wrong with OCD - I have it too. A former boss once quoted thusly - "It's not OCD, I prefer to call it attention to detail."
I only have three years to go then no more attention to detail. These companies built this crap and these business owners ran out and bought it right along with the song and dance, I don't really give a **** what takes place in my field anymore, There's nothing I can do about and no one wants to hear the truth anyhow. So let'em cry.
While I'm not a wrench, being a designer I have to get along with every customer, it gets hard because many customers are not from the USA, the language barrier can be a pita. Work ethic is a biggie, the canuk thats sending me texts at midnight, the chinese guy that works 7 days....The brit that had no sense of humor and couldn't get along with anyone but me. Throw in a few stuck-up ass kissers, oh boy, ain't we got fun. And everyones job is the most important!! People wonder why I drink.... Ed