Here goes... I got the 580B home and unloaded in front of the garage Sun afternoon. What happened to Fall?? It's in the upper 30's today, our avg high is in the low 50's. I grabbed my drain pan and removed the Oil drain plug, about a cup of water came out 1st then thick coal black oil. I panicked, took off the radiator cap, the radiator is full of nice green antifreeze. The water that came out of the oil pan was clear. I picked up earlier this morn new filters for the oil and fuel. I haven't checked the hydraulic fluid yet to see if it's milky. The plan is to use some T5 10w30 Rotella I have for now to clean out the crankcase a couple of times. Since it's so cold I'll get a magnetic style engine heater to warm it. Draining the fuel tank a flush it with some diesel. Fill the new filter with some Howes to help lubricate the pump cylinders and injectors. Once the heater has had time to warm things up I'll try to crank it up. How do I upload pics from my gallery in my phone??
Congratulations. I wouldn't put T5 rotella into something like this. If that's the only oil I had, I'd hose out the crankcase with hot water, then put the oil in and hope it starts.
Loosen the lines AT THE INJECTORS FIRST.. If its been sitting awhile u don't want that old stale fuel being the first thing those injectors get to eat.. Flush out the lines by loosening them up AT the injectors.. & HOPE the pump pumps fuel.. IF NOT.. let us/me know & we'll try to getcha going..
Yes.. I forgot to mention that cracking the injector lines loose to get rid of old fuel is in the plan. I didn't get the fuel system drained yet, I spent most the day running around finding filters , a battery, ground strap and a new shut down cable. I got the T5 oil cheap in the 10w30. My thought was the thinner oil might move faster thru the engine an lube those dry parts quicker, but if not a good choice I won't use it. Our local temps is also my concern about oil weight since I don't have a garage or shop to put it in right now. I did pour a gal if kerosene in it last night to loosen up more slug in the pan.
If the machine hasn't run in a while then the hydraulic fluid won't be milky just like the engine oil wasn't. That is condensation or infiltration water. The water and oil will separate over time or never mixed in the first place - that's why it's good to drain as much as possible before cranking her up. Do the same with the transmission and transaxle - at least loosen the plug a few turns and let the water out if you aren't changing the oil. I'd change it if it was me.
I drained the old oil yesterday and just drained the kerosene I put in it late yesterday. I haven't checked the H oil yet, I'll get that done tomorrow b4 work and I find a new I ring for the regulator on my propane jet heater.. Have I mentioned it's cold here?? Lol
Nothing wrong with synthetic oil except the price. If you still have the drained kerosene, put a new gallon through the engine with the drain open, catch it in the same bucket as the first gallon, let it settle, siphon off 1 1/2 gallons and use that to pour through the engine again. IF you do it so it drains into a clean white bucket, you can tell when you don't get any more water or gunk out with each new rinse.
Oops.. I drained the gal in with the old oil.... Oh well.. I'll get the filter changed and do a fairly quick oil change a couple of times.. That is if it fires off..Tomorrow draining the fuel system.
I got the Rotella T5 10w30 darn cheap.. Work closed it out at $10 for 2 1/2 gal jugs..got 2 of them.I figured it would work pretty good for clean up oil. I drained the kerosene into the pan with the old oil... Oops.....
Cold is relative. We just had the coldest thanksgiving on record here in NH after several plowable snow storms - temps in the single numbers not counting the wind. Now I've been in FL for a week and my neighbor here couldn't get the guy to come and pick up his tractor to work on it because a cold front was coming through and it was going to dip into the 60's.
I wasn't gonna mention the cold... The florida guy might not have been lazy, he might have known he was going to be busy with jump starts and installing winter fronts ALL THE WAY across the radiators for truckers headed north, to TENNESSEE Cbait, you'll be fine, I was just suggesting what I'd do, like Grady suggested checking the drains of other tanks for water. As long as you're not running water in the fuel, and not too much water in the engine or hydraulics, you'll be fine. I like to see the thing run before going to the trouble of changing the hydraulic fluid, or even motor oil if it's not terrrible. Get it warmed up and circulating to drain it, and also know that you're not going to be sending new oil to the scrapyard
I had to drain the engine oil.. Glad I did.. It was low and was some slimy sludge. I had to pulled the fuel shutoff valve as it was partially stopped up. I also pulled the water drain valve too. Will clean the port on the tank tomorrow to get the rest of the old fuel from the tank. Relative cold here in SWMO has been lows in the 20's and maybe 40's for the highs and cloudy. Work starts at 11am in the morn so may not get anything done tomorrow..I have to tarp it up as we are looking at a possible winter storm warning Fri and Sat. I did get the snowblower running today.. Last 2 winters it's worked great . Never burned a drop of gas to keep the snow cleared.. No snow...Lol
Cbait, If you want to keep those winter storms away - just keep that snowblower running. If it won't run - you'll get buried. Always seems to work like that for me. Delmer, he wasn't being lazy, he just wasn't going to work in those inhuman conditions.
LMAO. 2 mornings ago it was 25 with a brisk wind and I had to work in it all morning. 60 I would have paid for.
It is 28* this morning.. WHERE did my Sunny South Carolina go.??
Last time I jumped in on the going trend in a thread, I was rudely told by the thread starter what the topic of the thread was supposed to be, which wasn't what I was typing, so I'm taking a risk here... I'm in the same boat as you Pumpguy. 29 Degrees on my way to work in Auburn, Alabama this morning with a brisk wind. I moved from Michigan to get away from this weather. If Florida wasn't such a libtard state (no offense to those who live there) I might just move there. That way I could be blown away by a hurricane... but I'd be warm!
I won't do that to ya.. Work and weather has really limited my quality time on the 580b. Tarped it up this morning, I have time b4 work tomorrow but mother nature has other plans. Finish draining the fuel tank, put the fuel valves back in, put the new filters on and add oil. Got a new battery I guess next thing will be see how much of the electric system works.
If it's anything like most machines of that era - it's crap. You only need a few wires for it to start, charge, and run. The rest can be added later.
Today was a very good day !! I got the fuel system back together today, new fuel filters and oil filter. Poured in the oil, added new diesel fuel with Howes added. Hooked up the new Battery, turned ignition on and pressed the starter button...nothing. Went and grabbed my remote starter switch and rolled the engine over with it...sounded good.. Since it has no block heater I grabbed my heat gun. Took the housing off the air filter and pointed the heat gun.. Rolled the engine over 2-3 second bursts several times and it started hitting. I gave it a bit more throttle and kept the heat gun hit the switch and it hit and idled.It leveleded out in a few seconds, 55lbs oil pressure and no extra noises, I let it run a few more minutes and shut it off. The steering pump needs some fluid so I didn't wanna burn it up. It's been a good day......
THATS a GOOD FEELING.. isnt it..!!! Keep at it, you'll be digging holes in no time.. The bummer comes when u put it in gear & it sits there.. but hey.. lets enjoy the moment.. Good Job..
Ok...It looks like the trans and rear end from the '70 580 ck is a 4spd w/o the hi/lo range. The guy I'm buying it from sent me a pic of the shifter area and I don't see the hi/lo range lever. Since this tractor will be used 99% of the time on 15 acres seems to me I should just swap them out. If I get adventurous can the hi/lo be swapped into the 4spd trans? All the trans gears r in a pile on the floor of the garage.
If you don't see a hi/low shifter, it probably had the power shuttle. Both have the 4 speed transmission. If yours has the hi/low, you will still need it - leaving it out isn't an option unless you install the power shuttle in place of your manual shuttle. I've never heard of anyone doing that but may be possible if you have all the parts and do the necessary modifications. Dale could tell you. I'd keep the manual shuttle and the hi/low if it was me. If you're swapping the entire transaxle instead of just the gears, you should check the specs on the new unit's ring and pinion so as not to end up with the same problem. There are threads here that have good info or maybe some of the real Case mechanics here can give you some advice. My advice is to get the service manual. You need it - it isn't an option. How are the brakes? Might as well deal with them at the same time since you're in there. Good luck.
I have a service manual I PO gave me with the 580Band have been reading it. I plan on splitting the tractor behind the engine to replace the clutch as well as machining the flywheel and putting in a new rear main seal. The PO started repairs and has pulled all the gears out of the trans, has the ring gear and related parts out, these are on the floor in a pile. Then he put the "B" back together enough to roll it out of his shop. I'm getting the entire rear of the '70 580ck from the bell housing back.. Sorry.... as I reread my last post I didn't really make it clear on my thoughts. So I'll try gain. the "B" has a blown ring and pinion, a cracked side plate, tooth chipped on a bull gear and the brakes are totally oil soaked. About 1K I'm guessing for parts. I'm getting the 580ck less that 1/2, that it had an engine problem. Option 1.... I'm thinking of going thru the 580ck replacing bearings, seals and the brakes as needed. This I believe would get me a working unit faster as I have a project that needs to be done by spring. Option 2.... If there are any of the Case wizards willing to respond is it possible to use the 580ck trans and final drive and marry the hi/lo the "B" has together> Option 3.. If the parts from the 580ck are the same as my "B" do I pull those out and fix the "B"... either way I still need to split for the clutch and main seal.
If the CK has the power shuttle you can't use the hi/low. That is used in conjunction with the manual shuttle. The easiest fix is probably just to use the whole CK transaxle - assuming it's in good shape - which you shouldn't assume. That's why I suggested checking the specs as well as the condition of the gears. If you've read the older threads or the manual there is a thrust washer [among other things] that can be an issue. Some were made of fiber and didn't hold up - maybe what happened to the B. I'd make sure that everything is good before buttoning it up or you'll be back in the same boat.
I agree Grady.. Which ever route taken everything will be checked out.. I'm not by any means a trans or rear end tech. I've worked hard in my life to avoid those areas...Lol I do have a person who does.. Like everybody want to spend the least amount possible parts and labor.
Talked yesterday with the guy the 580ck trans and final drive is coming from.. He hopes to get it here this coming weekend. I guess when I actually have it I'll see what the best plan is..He did tell me it has a standard clutch. Ok enough of that til I get it home.. Tomorrow I have to get some TCH fluid to top hydraulics and steering off..Then diving into the electrical system to see what needs repaired or replaced.
After a survey of the dash, most everything is shot. Key switch, starter button, fuse holder etc.... So I'll be ordering just about everything including gauges. The wiring looks ok just very stiff and old, clean up the terminals and should ok. To those familiar with a "B" the power distribution wire goes to a 30amp breaker. The wire going out of the breaker had been shortened and spliced with a smaller gauge wire. Power is getting to the key switch tho. The water temp sender wire is broken and yet to locate the other end in the harness, but I know it's supposed to be green, will keep looking. Gauges... Go with factory or good quality aftermarket? I'll need amp and water temp..the oil gauge is working and an aftermarket SW. Oh.. How do u get to the set screw for the shut down cable at the pump.. It's right up to the engine block.
Lol.. it sux don't it?? Just use a pair of pliers to loosen the screw.. its not real tight.. I THINK if u put it in the shut off position, u can get to it better..
U did tap into the Dale Weiss encyclopedia didn't u.?? {TractorStuff} {e-backhoeparts.com}
I'll give that a try.. I spent the morning at a friend's repairing the broken oil dipstick.. Man those things fit tight into the tube.. No wonder it broke after not being used for awhile
Not yet.. I did call him awhile back about this tractor.. Very nice gentleman.. I'll check out his site.
Gauges ? Not a better price on the internet. That I know of anyway. ----> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Case-Tract...et/262749361104?hash=item3d2d1513d0:rk:1:pf:0
WOW.. 36.00 & Free Ship.!!!! AND they say Case on them.. Way Kool..
Wow.. Nice gauge sets!!! Will temp temp gauge capillary sensor fit in the head for depth.. Mine has an electric gauge currently.. I bet I have a set of gauges in the garage already...but not as kewl w/o "case" on the dial.
Yes the temp sensor should work with the correct fitting in the head. Unfortunately for me, I didn't see them on ebay before I purchased Autometer brand gauges for myself. Pricey but cheaper than OEM from a CNH dealer.
Found the set of Sunpro gauge..The set has a volt gauge instead of an amp gauge..this set probably won't work. I followed the wire harness toward the dash and have yet to locate the broken end if the green temp sender wire... Hmmmm????
I've come to the realization that my Case brand service manual "basic wiring" diagrams are wrong. Several wires colors are incorrect. The temp sensor lead and the alt field connector wires specifically. The broken temp wire no matter where I scrap on the dry jacketing is white.. I did find a wire in the harness in the right area under the remaining electrical covering tape with old clear shrink tubing but it is red.. The alt wires have been taped back and it looks like a 1 wire GM alternator in place. This tractor wires are blue and white and the book shows brown and orange. I'm going to look at work for a key switch, starter button and gauges. I work for national part sales company.
The schematic and color code chart are in this thread. -----> HeavyEquipmentForums I copied them from the service manual.
Got the same pages in my book.. Shows red and purple at the gauge.. I have red and brown. The alt shows brown and orange on field connection.. I have blue and white.. All wires look original.
That is unusual. All is good if your wires are connected correctly regardless of what the colors are.
Hold the phone fellas.. U say the wires look original?? MAYBE, JUST MAYBE that's an indication u don't have what u think u have.?? I looked back/scanned thru the thread & didn't see where u posted any inj. pump #'s.. Get the top line #'s off the nameplate on the pump.. I can run'm & see whatcha got.. "WE" should do that before u go ordering any "major" parts..
Stupid question?. How will the inj pump # tell anything about the wiring harness. It's looking like a mechanical water temp gauge is what I'm going to be with because of costs. Sets of gauges are cheaper. The pump # is DBGFCC 431-40AJ Model 1853714 Tractor #580BCK. 8750502
Because, if the "wires" don't match the book & u think they're original.. Theres a chance ur not working on what u think ur working on.. HENCE>> the 40AJ pump goes on a>> 530 Wheel Tractor w/ a G188D engine.. {BAM} Wrong book, maybe??
Every serial number on the thing shows 580b. And it's an Case manual.. Not a reprint. Someone may have put a dif pump on it after all its 40+ yrs old.. Other than the broken temp wire and the 1 wire alt.. It all looks original.
How do I upload pics from my phone
Tractor #580BCK. 8750502 That is a 1974 year of mfg. The book is correct. Your harness is not the one that was made for a 580B. It may have been substituted with one designed for a different tractor. I can't help you with phone photos. I only do mine from one of my laptop pc's.
That would make sense.. It's a very old harness..been in it for a long time. I'd posts some pics if I knew how.. Asking for a url address..not tech savy
Ok.. I'll download pics into laptop..but it sounds like it's been figured out. I knew something wasn't right.. I have seen "basic" diagrams used as a reference to cover several applications b4.. Thanks for the help..that tells me to go ahead with a mechanical temp gauge.
Yeah, that pump swappin crap happens all the time.. they "look" the same & bolt-up.. Theres a whole series of pumps that get swapped.. 580B w/ shuttle, 530's, 580B w/ mechanical and on & on.. I just want to help if I could.. AND it made sense given the pump #..?? But your prob. right. Just for kicks I'll check the fuel settings.. see which 1 is higher.
BTW> do u KNOW which engine your working with>> 188 or 207..??
It's a 188
Since it looks like the harness has been swapped for who knows what I picked up a mechanical water temp gauge. No one had a key switch that would work so I'll get that, the fuse holder and the headlight switch from tractor stuff. Pumpguy.. I hate to use pliers on the set screw for the shut off cable. Since we now know what pump is on it what size is the nut?? I tried a 1/4" wrench ..its too big...
hahaha.. I don't know.. I use pliers.. Like I said.. its not real tight..
Ordered a key switch and a fuse holder from tractor stuff Tues, ought to have them Sat. They should get the thing starting on it's own. Hoping I get call the other trans and rear end is here. Get the new temp gauge installed, fire it back up and check system voltage, hope it's charging...
After several days without time to tinker I got some time today. The new key switch and fuse holder arrived from TStuff, got them and a new light switch installed(no lights yet). The 580b now cranks and starts like it should. I also installed a new mechanical temp gauge so the dash is just about done for now. The guy who has the replacement trans and rear end just about has it ready to deliver. Next big chore is to clean out the garage so the 580b can be rolled in and disassembled. I think that is going to be the worst part of the whole resurrection....cleaning....Yuck.
Sounds like your well on your way.. good luck. 1 little trick that might help keep the mess down is get yerself a bunch of CARDBOARD.. & lay it out & underneath the machine.. some thick old cardboard boxes opened up will soak up all the oil & make getting the dirt up alittle {to a lot} easier.. Have fun..
I meant cleaning out the garage...LOL. The tractor will get a serious power wash b4 it goes in. Yes on the cardboard. 13 yo garage has never had a car in it..just stuff from building the house.
That 1st big puddle IS gonna sting a little bit.. lol
Thumbs up with this! After a while you just put floor dry on it and think "oh-well"...
Ok....... I guess I didn't ask quite all the right questions to the CK owner.. His is a true shuttle, it has the dump valve on the "clutch" pedal. So.... I'm guessing I can use the final drive or just the parts out of it to fix my 8 speed shuttle.. Dang it I forgot to check for flanged or keyed axles. I knew this was going along to well..........
Got the garage cleaned out today. Power washing the beast tomorrow b4 she gets pushed in. Thinking of spreading some visqueen down and then cardboard over that. The floor still has that new concrete color....LOL. Getting the other trans and rear end Weds, he's bringing it to me.. Awesome.... My trailer still holds the hoe unit. Gotta get a couple of pair of heavier jackstands from work and build an adjustable roller stand to support the bellhousing, prob just block the motor under the pan. One pair of stands under the front axle, the other under the loader frame in front if the rear axle. It looks like I can use my "a" frame to support the steering column and strap up the tank to the loader cross support. Yeah I know wedge the rad support to the axle. Anything I'm missing???
Sounds like a typical restoration some good some not so good but all in all it'll work. The transaxle will work on the mechanical shuttle housing with no problems. Two things to remember though, there are shims that are on the transaxle main shaft that go between the shuttle and the transaxle front cover, it depends on the cover clearance of how many there are. The other thing is the gasket that goes between the two housing DO NOT use any silicone or sealer on the gasket. For one the silicone will come off and get in the torque tube and could cause problems and the gasket can leak. The axles are splined into the bull gears in the transaxle housing and retained with nuts and cotter pins to lock the nuts. There is a seal in the axle housing to prevent oil from getting into that housing, it faces toward the bull gear.
Thought is was time to posts some photos of the beast. [/ATTACH]
Nice looking tractor but where's the backhoe and mounts?
The PO had started fixing it when he quit. The hoe, fenders, mounts and orops are here. I got the shuttle trans yesterday, getting ready to power wash it.
It's been a few days since I posted. My friend finally got a chance to come over and look at things. He is going to take the shuttle and and duel range units home to check them over. I going to order some snap rings(found a broken 1) seals, bearings and cups, thrust washers etc.....hopefully from TractorStuff. Meanwhile, I will split the tractor at trans and the torque tube. Then use something like a tranny jack to pull the torque tube to replace the clutch. Oh..and I have a 7 day cruise in less than 2 weeks.. Sounds like this is going to be a longer time frame than I wanted... LOL
Have fun on the cruise and don't sweat the small stuff.
I called Tractor Stuff last Fri and ordered a bunch of parts to go thru the trans with. Dale is getting them put together and will ship soon as possible. Meanwhile life has kept me away from the old "B", when we get back from vacation I will be more than ready to tear into the repairs. Dale is a wonderful source of knowledge, he gave me many tips, we will have to swap the trans main shaft from the power shuttle to the mechanical shuttle. Anyway... On my next post look closely, hopefully I'll be sporting a nice tan....lol
Does anyone have a good picture of the hi lo shifter
Search this site for 580b trans. You can also go to the Case parts website, they have very good parts views with part number listings or ask someone to email it to you
Thank you
Back from vacation and the weather is cold.....brrrrr. Tractor stuff sent my parts and I'm ready to fix this thing. I don't have a lot of room so I plan to split the rear end from the torque tube, then drop the torque tube to replace the clutch. Does anyone have a good idea for some sort of trany jack to use on the torque tube. I do have a fairly heavy caster wheel unit that I can build a jack unit on.
If you are going to replace the clutch at engine then it would be easier to split it at the engine. That's the way I always did it when I worked on them.
Wow...how time gets away from a person...Update.. My 580b is still in the garage ready to split. Think I have most all my parts except for the brakes. My question is.. At work we r discontinuing our 80w140 in 5 gal buckets. I know 80w90 is the correct weight.but this stuff is priced cheap.. Would it work ok??
That will work just fine for your transaxle.
I finally have a couple of days to work on the B. I split it from the torque tube and rolled the rear end back, pretty easy. I have been work in on splitting the 580ck rear end and torque apart from the parts tractor. It's a torque converter trans, I have all the covers off and nut and bolts between the diff and trans out. It separates about an inch and then won't move any more. I noticed the clutch pack trying to separate when I gently tried to pry the 2 housings apart. Where does this type trans come apart?
Adjust your height on either the rear or the front one or the other is off a bit. Try putting a pry bar between housing and rear clutch pack housing sometimes the splines stick.
Ok. I have the rear on blocks but it is downhill some. I'll level it out. Have an engine hoist on the torque tube with a leveling adjuster. It does separate behind the clutch pack?? Thanks Coy
Leveled the whole thing out and adjusted the leveler on the hoist. I found the right place to gently pry and it came right apart. Anybody need a shuttle torque section and flywheel?? Lol
Another question... I have to raise the steering column and fuel tank to clear the front right steering mounting stud. The space between the top of the fuel tank and the loader cross support pipe looks smaller than the height I have to raise the column to pull the torque tube section. Ideas??
Believe it or not you’ll have just enough room to remove top cover. But you’ll have to block cover and remove suction tube and pump then finish removing cover.
Here it is the end of Aug. Took some vacation days to work on this thing. I think I have pretty much everything needed to get the rear end completed. I ended up buying 2 new carrier plates and going to use the rear housing from the ck unit I bought. It's pinion and ring gear are good so setting it up will take less time than swapping the new pinion and ring gear(especially after reading some filing required on some replacement pinion shafts). Disassembly and cleaning is on task today.
Ok..I have the bull gears, carrier plates, side gears out and even have the axles pushed out some. How do you lift the crown gear and shaft out, I can seem to find the right angle.. Also I noticed some movement of the shaft back and forth in the center wheel.. I checked the other 1 and it has movemen too.. Do I need more parts??
I've kept trying to lift the crown gear and shaft out of the housing and can't get enough clearance. I am swapping out the axle housings as the CK are chipped where the hoe mounting brackets bolt, hoping to get more room. The right housing came off w/o too much effort but the left hasn't budged yet...taking a break......
Must be about the only 1 here..feel like I'm talking to myself... I got the left axle housing off this morning using a couple of chains wrapped around the diff housing and my porta power to put a little pressure on the housing from the inside. Then used a rubber mallet and it slowly came loose. I still cannot find the sweet spot on getting the crown gear and shaft lifted out. Anyone have any ideas??
My buddy was finally able to help today.. We got to work setting the backlash on the side gears. Mr Dale had sent me several shims to get the correct setting since this was a basket case when I got it. Both sides we got set to spec with some differences between gears. Set the shaft and crown gear in the housing, lubed the shims and replaced the diff lock seal. I had ordered 2 new side plates and we set them up w/o side shims to get a feel for where things needed to be. we used 4 bolts per side and slowly tighten and checked rolling torque. With torque correct the side plates were still 1/8 inch from meeting the housing. I don't have near enough shims to correct a .100 gap per side. I called Mr Dale and talked to him, after some discussion and cost estimates we decided on a plan. My friend is a pretty good machinist with his own tools in his shop. He took the 2 new side plates to cut down the seating flange for the bearing cup in the side platea little deeper. Just as a precaution he took and old side plate to check measurements.
To backup a little I did have to make a modification to the inside of the CK housing to get the crown gear and shaft out. After much aggregation I looked at the "B" rear housing and noticed that the castings were a little different. The side plate bolt holes are "capped" on the inside of the CK while the "B" were not "capped" with the bolt hole drilled thru the housing. I used my grinder to cut one of the caps off and the crown gear assembly fit up thru the opening. Case would have had to set the center wheel in the housing and then pressed the shaft into it while in the housing. Then they changed the inside of the casting on the "B".
Out of the blue, tons of progress today. As per my last post we discovered the aftermarket side plates had some issues. When I received the plates I noticed the finish on the bearing cups was quite rough. My friend took the plates home and after a lot of measuring and calculating he got the machining done that they needed. We are not sure what steel the cups were made from but they were definitely not hardened and the diameter was different between the 2. The angle of the bearing surface was wrong too, this is one reason we had roughly .125 gap to the diff housing. Luckily I had ordered new cups from Tractor Stuff. He machined the seat depth about .050, not as deep as he first thought of .090. The diameter of 1 plate was too big for a press fit with the new cup so he glued it in with some special glue he has used before on same type repair. Rolling torque, backlash all set. The dual range and shuttle are all spec'd and bolted in place. Now to go thru the axle housings and at least the rear end will be done. Then on to the clutch.
It's been awhile since I have had time to work on the old hoe. Last weekend I finally got to finish the axles and axle housings. Mr. Dale sent me brake linings and springs with my last order so the brakes are about ready to install. I spent some time cleaning the garage around the backhoe getting ready to replace the clutch and main seal. Even with a full time job, the farm and life I never thought I'd be over a year now getting this thing going...sheesh.
Good to know you are getting the ole girl going again. Just a little FYI when you get ready to split the tractor for the clutch be sure and block the engine at the front axle on both sides so it doesn't lean to one side or the other.
Won't the loader frame keep the engine from trying to lay over?. The engine is still bolted to the front support. After my buddy and I got the crown gear shaft setup I still had to take each side plate back off to install the new seals. The brakes were no where ready to use to keep the shaft supported. I thought about for awhile and had a brain storm. I took 2 - 3" muffler clamps and attached a piece of all thread to each about 12" long. I placed the clamps around each side gear with the all thread pointing up. I drilled holes in a piece of "c" channel across the top of the diff housing and put the all thread thru the holes. Then I ran washers and nut down to the channel. This holds the crown gear shaft in place and allowed to take the side plates off 1 by 1 to get the seals installed. When I can get the pic of the setup loaded into a pc I'll post it.. It worked well.
Got time today and tomorrow to work on the old girl. I built a wooden gantry frame to lift the steering housing and fuel tank up to get the center torque tube out. I had purchased a Harbor Freight motorcycle lift and whipped up an adapter from angle iron and bolted it to the torque tube. I placed 2 small bottle jacks and a heavy piece of c channel under the front axle support to hold the weight of the engine. I wondered if the casters on the MC lift would roll easily with the weight of the tube..wow.. It rolled right out. In the morning I'll get the clutch and flywheel out. I have a shop here who will rebuild the clutch and surface the flywheel. He can also rivit the new brake bands and disc pads for me. When I first got this thing home I spent some time making sure it ran. I put a mechanical water temp gauge in it. I didn't realize it would dump about 2 gal of antifreeze out the sender port. Today when I separated the torque there was some ** in the bellhousing. Could this be from the ** draining down the side of the engine??
the antifreeze in the bell housing could be due to you changing the sender. But I would check the freeze plug in the back of the block also.
Ok.. I'm stuck...I have all the bolts I can find in the rear main seal housing out and took a thin putty knife around the edge cutting the old permatex and gasket. It's somewhat loose at the top but the bottom is stuck tight. I don't wanna pry too much since its cast aluminum and I'm sure I don't wanna know how much a new plate is..I can find no bolts or do I see any from the bottom in the manual... any ideas??
Got another question. Does anyone have the dimensions for the clutch alignment tool? Was thinking of cutting one on my wood lathe from oak
It's all about being level and straight, it's a booger sometimes.
Can't you measure the shuttle input shaft ?
I can.. Was hoping someone with a few more brains than me had the dimensions. Feeling pretty stupid with not seeing the bolts coming up from the oil pan holding the bottom of the rear seal plate...lol
I was going to mention that flange that is held by the oil pan, but for some unknown reason I thought you had the pan off.
I have the rear main seal replaced. Resurfaced flywheel installed and torqued(new pilot bearing,seal and oring). Dale at Tractor Stuff loaned me an input shaft to align the clutch. The clutch and pressure plate are aligned and torqued. I grabbed the release bearing collar and the new bearing and had a buddy press it for me..Wow...crappy rough feeling bearing. I found an SKF bearing at a local NAPA store and went back to my buddy's shop. No comparison to the other bearing...smooth as silk. I hoped to have the torque tube bolted back in place today but the bearing took too much time. I'm off again Friday so I have the whole day to get this thing all slid back together.
just wondering where you added the kerosene to the go thru the engine? will that take all the sludge out?
Diesel would have probably done a little better.. The kerosene did get rid of more of the sludge. I bought some Rotella pretty cheap so doing some fairly quick oil changes.. I should have this thing back together in another week or 2. I'll run this oil an hr or 2 then drain and fill again with another new oil filter.
So sorry.. I never answered ur question.. I poured the kerosene down the oil fill/ dipstick tube.
cbait, I was just wondering... how are you doing with the restoration project? Mine is a little aggravating because trying to deal with lazy reps at case that say the part is no longer available instead of trying to locate it. Other than that meeting some very knowledgeable people with years of experience on tractors. thanks jerry
Last few days it's going well.. Today I got the thing all bolted back together. Hooking all sorts of linkages back up and have to fabricate some new rubber bushings to bolt the steering column back down. Somewhere in the garage is 1 of the rubber pads for the fuel tank, it fell off the bracket and rolled or bounced to a nice hiding place. As for parts I have found Dale Weiss at Tractor Stuff to be indispensable. He knows these old tractors inside and out. I have used used parts, new aftermarket and oem. The trans and final drive had been pretty much overhauled. This old machine will be used here on the farm for the occasional project, waterline, stump and pen cleaning. It's not going to be a show piece.
I need a photo of the steering column mounting on a 580b diesel with the mechanical shuttle . I have looked at the parts exploded view many times. Someone has had this thing apart in the past and not put it together correctly. What I really need is a good photo of the G45343 bushing, I can't find 1 online. Thanks....
Spent most of the day working on the "money pit" again. Getting close...today I got the steering column mounted with what I had to work with using rubber cushions from a sway bar link. Both shifter covers are on and the trans and shuttle filled fill their fluids. I got the new shut off cable installed with a little wrench I fabricated to loosen and tighten the cable stop on the pump...it worked pretty darn well. Brakes and clutch adjusted. Tomorrow is mounting the starter and bleeding the fuel system. Bolt the backhoe brackets on and look everything over before I crank the old thing up. The PO took the seat base apart and have to figure out how too collapse a 4ft long spring in about 15". Any ideas appreciated on that...
I always hated messing with the seats, they were a pain in the butt. What I used to do is put the base in a bench vise and install the spring and the seat and use my body to compress the spring and have someone install snap ring.
Guess I need to look at the parts view closer... I didn't see a snap ring. Of course on my last day off for 6 days or so it's raining on startup day. At least we have daylight saving time now..lol
Haha yeah raining here also. The ring is actually a spiral ring regular snap rings never would hold.
I need some help.... Finally got a chance to fire the "Money Pit" up. The starter kicks out or doesn't engage the flywheel. The teeth on the starter ring are perfect. I didnt have any trouble a year ago when I first brought it home. I'm guessing the starter drive is bad. I took a chance and put a new soleniod on but no fix. Also I have a bad squeak while it does stay engaged long enough to spin the engine several revolutions. Sounds like from the bell housing area. The clutch disc was installed the correct way and the torque tube slid right to the engine. The number on the starter is 1107874 Delco....
Remove starter and check travel of Bendix make sure it is going all the way out. Did you grease the throw out bearing when you installed it?
On some starters the length of the throw is adjustable and there is specific limits of it.
I got a new starter drive today, got it installed this afternoon. The starter works like it should now. The squeak is coming from the new clutch. I had adjusted free play in the clutch pedal to the proper amount when I reassembled. The pedal only moved down about 2" after the free play amount. I thought that was odd but continued hooking everything backup. That was last week. With the starter now fixed I fired it up today, bad squeal.Ran it a few mins and shut it down. I took off the side cover for the clutch bearing and there was some smoke it there. I noticed that the pedal now had no free play. I took the adjustment linkage apart thinking it was set too tight somehow after it ran. Only thing I can think of is the throw out bearing is not facing to the release levers correctly. Anyway... It looks like she's coming back apart.... If it weren't for bad luck... I'd have no........
It's now a few more weeks since I last posted on the progress on the "Money Pit"... I had to split it back apart to find the local clutch shop had not quite got me the right pressure plate. The end of the throw out bearing collar was rubbing against the splined hub rivited in the p plate. I called Mr. Dale at TStuff and found that That center hub could be removed. Took the plate back to the shop and he performed the needed corrections. I put the "Pit" all back together and as of last Friday night it backed out from the garage under it own power. Hooray!!!!!! A quick trip up and down my long drive trying all the gears and new brakes. I spent Sun and Mon studying my manual and the rest of the pile of parts I had brought home 1 1/2 years ago. Front floorboards, fenders rear hoe brackets and rops are bolted back on. Now I'm making a new list of repairs the "Pit" still needs.. Leaks...water pump..alternator...steering tie rods.. Hoping to finally have decent internet in a few days to post some pics.
wow...making progress . can't wait to see the pics.
I have the front end torn down now for a new water pump, hoses and ordered a new radiator. The old one looked pretty narly and questionable...lol. I soaked the coupler shaft and wire brushed it hoping this Mon(next day off) that it will slide back for a new belt. Why didn't someone tell me there would be about 30 lbs of grease, oil, mud and crap in the front casting? LOL.... I had to take a drill with a spade bit from underneath to loosen the stuff up so i could vacuum it out.. Currently it's sitting backed up to the garage with the front end tarped up waiting for Monday..
Work had kept me busy during all this virus mess and rain on what days I do have off. I have the new thermostat, water pump, hoses and radiator installed. The rain held off long enough to pour in the A/F this morn. Got the system full and noticed A/F running down the water pump coming from the upper mounting bolt that has 2 holes in the pump casting... ***???? The old pump and gasket also has these 2 holes. I don't like using rtv to heavily so I just ran a smear on both sides of the gasket. I guess I'll have to remove the fan and WP and make a new gasket w/o the other hole. Someday next week maybe the rain will stop so I can take it back apart again.....
Finally got some time a few days ago to take the "Money Pit" back apart. I didn't look close enough to what type of washer is used under the leaking bolt. A copper sealing washer. I picked 1 up from work and replaced the lock washer I had used. The cheap aftermarket radiator I got what I paid for I guess. Had to do some modifications but it's back in. Refilled the cooling system and at this point no leaks. The 1 wire alt is mounted and charging. After running it quite awhile I installed all the sheetmetal. I even replaced the missing headlight and they are working now. The weather again this spring like most parts of the country is too darn wet. Going to be next week before I can hopefully(rain permitting) I'll get a wrecker out here to lift the backhoe unit off my trailer. Then to figure out how to get it to stand back up. The control station is parallel to the ground and the boom is swung full to the right. I still have a few hydraulic leaks in fittings and lines to fix.
Howdy neighbor
Hey.... Born and bred here in the Ozarks for 57 years. The "Money Pit" is my 1st piece of construction equipment. It has been quite the learning experience.
I had a wrecker come and lift the backhoe unit off the my trailer today... Semi size wrecker. It wasn't cheap, but the hoe is on the ground. Looking things over I'll need to replace all 4 stabilizer hoses and a few others, going to be easier with it on the ground. It has had some hoses on the boom and dipper replaced at some time. I did a quick search of the site but didn't find anything. Do any companies supply hose kits other than OEM??
Really enjoy reading this thread,you’re doing a fantastic job,keep up the great work!
Suggest you ask around on who to use locally. Prefer to stay with companies like Gates, Aeroquip and Parker. Some companies have huge markups and some driving can save you a lot of money. Do not know of companies with hose kits for those, maybe someone else does.
I went to O'Reilly's. Ouch.... all 4 lines $299. About the same as 2 other places I checked. They are installed and fit good. I chatted with Mr Dale about how to get the hoe standing back up. I bought 2 - 4ft 1/2" hoses and adapters to lengthen the existing lines. Backed the "Money Pit" close as I could and connected the hoses. Being cautious I started operating the stabilizer levers and got them bled out. The boom had swung all the way to the left and the control levers are parallel to the ground. I grabbed a long piece of 1x2 firing strip and used it to push the foot pedals to center the boom and placed a big pin in the centering hole to steady it. Next I tried to lower the boom(rather get the control station back upright). Large fluid spray from the boom cylinder area. Found it.. the swivel joint on the boom side just blowing out oil. Quick run to my manual to find the snap ring missing. Called Mr. Dale and ordered seals for both fittings and seals for the stab cylinders.. the left cylinder just dumping fluid like the swivel joint. That's it till next week when the parts arrive. On another front. Hit a groundhog den tedding hay with the Ford tractor. The jar ripped the wheel from my hands. A few mins later noticed a fluid leak under the fuel tank. Guess the impact ruptured a short rubber line in the steel pressure line going to the gear box.. new aftermarket all rubber hose coming from WA late next week.. Both tractors down....great!!!!!!!!!!!
Got the seals for the boom swivel joint and stab cylinders from Mr. Dale. Installed the joint o rings and hooked the tractor back to the hoe. After some maneuvering of control levers and hoses the hoe was uprighted and pinned on the tractor. YIPPIE!!!!!! I climbed aboard and started moving the hoe to bleed out some air. Everything seemed to be good, still bad leak on oh stab cylinder. Lifted the boom to engage the transport lock to drive the "Money Pit" up to the garage and the rh boom cylinder started a geyser.... Wow....lost a lot of fluid. Back on the phone to Indiana for more seals and a spanner wrench......
I got the boom seal kits in and tackled the stab cylinder Mon. MR. Dale had already sent me the stab kits. I also had him ship me a spanner wrench. I got lucky on the stab pin and got it pushed out fairly easily with my porta power. The rest of the seal install went pretty easy. The boom cylinder... it took my Ford tractor as an anchor to pull the ram out with a come along. I anchored the ram eye in my vice and hit the bolt with my 1/2" pneumatic impact. No Dice!!! Dropped the ram at a buddies shop and even with a cheater bar we couldn't loosen the bolt. Trying to locate a 3/4" impact to borrow or buy. Hope it will do the job.
I use a 24 inch pipe wrench on a socket. Then a pipe with a track bar in it on the wrench handle. Never failed to break them loose yet.
I had one nut that would not come off my Cat's boom cylinder. I broke 2 snap on 1/2 breaker bars, stripped out a chinese 3/4 ratchet and bent the handle. My machine is at my brothers auto business. Matco truck rolled in. I have known him for 25 years. He whips out his most powerful 3/4" drive air gun. No dice. My brother knows the shop foreman at the local grocery distributor's truck shop. They had to fire up a trailer air compressor and use a big 1" drive gun. Their shop air supply was not enough. They barely got it off with that setup. Each attempt we had it pretty hot too in case there was red loctite. You may need to use a 3/4 drive breaker bar and pipe or find a place that has a 1" impact and have them remove it for you.
Found a guy close to me who works on hydraulics. Left it with him..he told me he had to use some heat. Gently warm to 280F, he didnt say if he had to use his 10 ft cheater bar. Got it back here at the house cleaning and replacing the seals.
Have some very good news for a change.... I got the boom cylinder put back together.. pumped about 7 gal of hydro fluid back in. Climbed aboard and fired the "Money Piy" up. I slowly worked the controls to get everything bled out. No new leaks yet. YIPPIE!!!! My 1st project was a small stump. I worked it at slower rpm, 1st time in 2 years I've ran a hoe and never a 3 lever. Things yet to fix are the seat base and spring(Coy.... I still don't understand where the snap ring goes), going to need swing tower and boom pins and bushings yet..but HEY!!!!! Its moving.
Item no. 13 is the spiral ring, You feed the spring into the inner post and then into the base when you compress it all the way the inner post will stick through the bottom of the base that's where the spiral ring goes.
I've been using the Money Pit a little digging out some small trees. The 24" bucket is too big for rock and clay soil we have here. I've been looking on Facebook for a 16"- 18" bucket. Some ads say not sure what it fits. What's the best way to figure that out?
The best way is to remove your bucket and measure the pin hole diameter and center to center distance from main pin to bucket cylinder pin. Then ask seller of other bucket to do the same. Also you can check with some equipment salvage yards, like Schaefer Enterprises @ 800-626-6046 or check Rock&Dirt forsale ads
I've been busy last couple of weeks and have let the Money Pit sit as sort of a test. I've been watching the cylinders, the left stab cylinder has dropped about 1/2 way and the boom has dropped several inches but still off the ground. I'll give it a (B+). Meanwhile I've been on the search for a more narrow bucket. Today I have 1 being shipped in from MN, a nice 16" heavy duty bucket. I spent more than I'd hoped too but should last forever. Another search online should give me the correct snap ring for the seat pedestal, it should have been here today. UPS running a day late. Coy.. I think I finally understand how and where it all goes back together. Looks like it might be easier than I thought.
The snap rings arrived last week. After a lot of cleaning and some burr removal I tried to put the seat post back together. Things went right together when I assembled it upside down. Bought a new seat and after making some brackets it and the post are installed and working well. The new to me bucket arrived today. Tomorrow night I will start to switch them out.
Took a week of vacation to get some projects done using the Money Pit.. Had to dig a new drain line. The old MP did well in this crap we have called earth. Rock and clay..mostly rock. I blew a line on the bucket and had to replace it yesterday. Working on a slope and the inherent tail heaviness of a backhoe moving it around is very precarious. Right now I'm not sure I can get it out of it's location. I guess I'm some what of a afraidy cat. I may try to see if the hoe can lift and swing the rear around to a more up hill position. The swing valving seems to be faulty..it swings fine but tends to swing the direction of gravity when not being used. I have to look at that.
I was like that with my old 680 when I got. Used it windrow trash on a select cut timber property. Remember having it in a spot where me myself and I thought this is all she can take. Then the uphill rear tire ran up on a stump. Thought I was going to test out the ROPS but she still did not roll. Some pointers: Go slow. Set the down hill outrigger about 6 inches off the ground. Keep the bucket close to the ground. If the hoe is back a few feet and close to the ground that lowers the center of gravity but lightens the front end. You can also swing it up hill and out a bit. That moves weight to the uphill side. I do not like to operate that way except for the outrigger a bit sometimes. Just some actions to work out of a bad spot. If you feel it is going to roll steer down hill. Go slow! If I misstated any of that I request others please correct me. When mine had a swing problem it was packing in a cylinder. Do not remember exactly but want to say have the hoe near center. Chained to a tree or just pushed down on the ground, if you can make it work. Low RPM and hold the swing pedal toward one side for a minute and then the other direction. Feel the swing cylinders temperature. Want to start with the machine cold and maybe do each side 3 times at the beginning. If a cylinder is leaking by it will be warmer because of the fluid passing through it. If you do not see it in about 10 or 15 minutes that is probably not the problem.
It's in a heck of a spot... downhill to the lh side. About a 2ft drop in 8ft. Dug trench with the excavated dirt on the lh side behind me. In front and uphill about 8ft is a huge stump. I was in there last summer with my Ford tractor doing some cleaning and wound up clearing a trail down hill and removing a fence panel and idling it out. I tried to use the hoe to swing the rear uphill but the swing didn't have enough power. I guess I'll look at clearing a wider path downhill again. This time I'll have to cut more trees and take down 2 fences.
Sounds like you are in a heck of a place. Is it possible you could take the hoe. Swing it all the way to the LH close to the machine and push the rear of the machine up hill? Just a thought and good luck. Glad to hear your have MP going anyway.
I left the MP where it sat for a week to get the rest of the trench project done and ready for back fill. I filled in what I could without moving where it was. I grit me teeth and carefully started seesawing back an forth trying to work away from the excavated dirt and a dead tree. With much care I got the front end more down hill and was able to back up some before I hit some wet manure and the down hill tire started spinning. After hand shoveling and gaining a few inches each time it stopping moving. I set a chuck of log in front of the rh rear tire as a chock. Flipped the seat around and reached out with the hoe and tried pulling it uphill. She moved a few feet then I'd lose that ground while trying to figure out how to keep it. Finally I used the stabilizers to hold me.. I'd get out and move the log up each time. Finally up and off the slope. Sun after putting some weight it the bucket I'll back down in and finish the back fill.
Last Sunday I backed the "MP" in to back fill the trench. I still have the 24" bucket and it dug well with it for my project. I slid my "new to me" 16" bucket in the front bucket for extra front weight. It took a couple hours since I am still learning this 3 lever and foot pedal controls. While backing in the thing jumped out of low range and made for a scary moment or 2 while on the hill. It had jumped or slipped out a couple times before but I thought that may have been operator error. I did some searching on the site and found the remedy. Looks like a woodruff key in the shifter could be the issue. I then remembered the PO did mention it would come out of gear.. Guess my excitement to get it put back together made my brain go numb. I have to get my 2nd cutting of hay put up next (this includes rebuilding my hay rake) and then I'll tear the "MP" back down and check out that possible worn key.
Hard to believe it's been almost 5 years since I started the thread. THE "MP" has been awesome, still running strong and gets used frequently. I have done a few repairs as in cylinder kits and changed to a 16" bucket with new pin and bushings. Never did get to the low range issue, just been dealing with.....lol. I just wanted to drop back in and say "Hey!!!!".. Rumor has it I maybe starting a new thread on the tractor Loader page... Will I ever learn???? LOL