Hello All from South Africa (Kalahari desert), My first post.. I have a Fiat Allis HD16 Series B which I bought for a steal ($600) – the guy who sold it to me, told me the torque converter was blown and it was bleeding all and would not be possible to fix so he is selling it as scrap.. It turns out it cost us $2 to fix – all we needed to do was replacing an O-Ring. I got it with three ripper shanks. I also noticed that the turbo was removed. Would like to replace or refit a turbo again. A few questions for anyone who could please help me. Can’t find a workshop manual anywhere 1. What is the rated HP of the HD16 Series B 2. Fluids: a. Torque Converter and how many gallons / litres b. Gearbox and how many gallons / litres c. Engine Oil and how many gallons / litres d. Final Drives and how many gallons / litres What other fluids?? The dozer also seem to have a floating blade – if so how do I lock it – int eh photos you can see it almost floats on the contours.. The dozer also seems to run very hot
The Old Girl at work
More of my HD16 Series B
Ripping rocks out of the ground
Pushing Rock and dirt
Nice looking 16-B Boerseun . Looks to be in good overall condition , possibly a low hour machine . Hope you can read the capacities chart I scanned in . Might have to zoom in on it Let me know if you cant read it . Horsepower is 195 , Yes you will need to find a turbo for it . On my 16B the blade float position is all the way forward on the blade control lever , it snaps in to a detent . If your tractor is running hot I would suggest pulling the radiator core and have a repair shop boil it & rod it out. Few other 16B threads you might be interested in HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums .
Thx for all the help and info TD25c According to the last owner the dozer have 3000 hours on but I wont be ale to confirm or deny - they have installed a new hour meter which only have 641 hours on now I found a turbo for the old girl - it is off a Mercedes Truck - will post photos later
If this is a full Fiat based FA tractor it should have a Iveco series engine in it.
Yair . . . td25c . . . or others who know these tractors. What's the go with the idler slides? On Boerseun's machine all the wear strips/slide guides appear to be on the inside of the track frame . . . is that an improvement? I seem to remember guides on the outsides which would seem to be more accessible for shim adjustment and service. DMiller . True enough . . . but it is mostly not much trouble to adapt a turbo off a similar engine to fit, I have done a bit of that myself. (big grin) Cheers.
This is or was Allis Chalmers they only had the Fiat name on it.I guess during the change over when Fiat brought Allis. Cheers Will
As I always say when someone posts about an Allis........... Don't forget to check out http://www.allischalmers.com !!! Andrew
Certainly got yourself the bargain of the century there Boerseun, especially if the hours are right. I'ld be tempted to ditch that puny exhaust when you put the turbo on. They originally had a much larger one mounted under bonnet. Is it your blade tilt floating? If so, the tilt cyl may be leaking internally. Quick test might be to disconnect and plug the lines ,without losing oil, and operate briefly. Cheers, Greg
Not sure if these were sophisticated enough to have an aneroid valve on the injector pump. If not, won't the old girl be over fueling a fair bit not having a turbo to boost the induction? Wouldn't want to damage the old girl.
Yair . . . Karl Robbers . I had the same thought. She is over fuelling as is showing by the black smoke in the photographs, not that heavy though maybe some one cut the fuel a tad when they ditched the turbo? . . . I had to run a V8 Cat with out its supercharger for a week or so and the black smoke was something to behold. Cheers.
Don't know Scrub Puller . My 16B idler guides are pretty much made the same way as my old cable blade HD 16 ac (1956 model ) The guides wrap around the inner channel edge .
Here is something that caught my eye . Check out the knuckle joint at the end of the blade arm . My 1974 model just uses a standard pin & boss arrangement . I'm beginning to think that Boerseun's 16B is a late model tractor . Maybe early to mid 1980's . Not sure when Fiat Allis dropped the 16B ? I believe the FD 20 took it's place . It used the Iveco engine .
Yair . . . thanks for the pages td25c . It's amazing how the memory plays tricks. I could have sworn the "guide plate"extended down the outside of the track frame. I seem to remember a replaceable wear strip with a wear face on the guide . . . clearance and minor tracking could be adjusted by guide plate shims shown on the exploded view. The other thing is I don't recall any dozer not having what I would call "conventional" ball trunnions and housings on the push arms/"C" frame . . . beats me. (big grin) Could you post a picture of the standard pin and boss arrangement some time please? Cheers.
From what I can establish it seems to be all genuine Fiat still
Oh she is definitely over fueling - serious black smoke especially when she labors a bit but I have no way to check where to adjust it - still struggling to find a workshop manual
Yeah and it smells horrible...
Thx - I do believe it is a bargain.. Yes I am going to... Cyl has been serviced and all new Hydraulic pipes been fitted
I will try and get more info on her and some more photos (detailed)
Update on my old girl - Noticed a slight leak on the right hand final drive yesterday - don't seem to be to serious just yet - pumped a bit of Grease in and topped it up with Gearbox oil - leak seem to have stopped for now. Took out the massive air filter yesterday (biggest I've ever seen) and gave it a "hose down" with the air compressor - half the bloody Kalahari came out of it. Tracks - How "hard" should they be pumped? I mean what is the recommended slack. (my first ever bulldozer) Oh and what kind of oil goes into the Torque converter? Normal engine oil, gearbox or Hydraulic oil - currently it has engine oil in (previous owner told me to use) but seems to be very sluggish and underpowered until the oil heats up.
I usually like an inch of sag between the top rollers. As for the torque, most use a 30wt TDO -T04 spec, and that's what we used In our old 41b.
Boerseun What is the serial number of the dozer ? there was an old guy in Krugersdorp that had a plot full of Fiats and a shed full of manuals. I dont know if he is still there. But it is worth a try.
Hi Seatwarmer, Here is the serial number
Would be awesome if I can get in touch with him......
Some more of the old Girl and my way of checking the fuel level - the fuel gauge seems to only show a quarter tank all the time
a bit of an Oil leak on the right hand final drive (That is after two days of standing) and some more pics
Is that a hitch near the right-hand final drive housing? Why is it off-center like that. Andrew
Yair . . . Boerseun If it were me I would be at least checking that final for chips . . . take the plug out cold and drop the first bit of oil into an old frypan or some such, you will normally lose only a gallon or two of oil . . . that seal shouldn't be leaking and could be indicating deeper problems. I'd also keep an eye on the self aligning outboard bearing on the track frame . . . check it for temperature compared to the other side after a few hours working, if you don't catch things in time it could get very expensive. Lovely old tractor and if you get on top of the problems she will serve you well for many years. All the best with it. Cheers.
That's a whale of a rig for what you gave for it. You can download a parts manual for it for free here: http://www.minnpar.com/manuals.asp These same people also bought all the New Old Stock parts from Fiat Allis when they went out. That little bitty chain on the ripper has been pre stressed by the looks of it.
Yeah Scrub , This is what the connection looks like at the end of the push arm where it connects to the blade on my 16B . My IH TD25 looks the same . If you look close you can see where I've had to shim up the pin boss to take out the side slop in the blade . Thought it was interesting that Boerseun's tractor used a knuckle joint . Looks to be heavy built .
Excellent advice . I might add to even pull the rear covers on both finals . I generally do it every couple years . Not a big deal . Allows you to clean out the housing , Peek in with a flashlight & pry around on shafts with a bar to check for a loose or bad bearing .
I'm going to Krugersdorp today, will see if he is still there
Yes Andrew it is... I have no idea... got it like that but it comes in handy when want to pull out something or pulling my road grader
We have checked it when I bought it and it was clear but will definitely check it again That then is definitely a concern to me... Darn... now where will I find that I know that is why I am already working on ways to get or make replacement parts.. even if I have to machine them.. I am very impressed with her and so far she has not disappointed me.. whatever I throw at her she takes on and come out tops..
Will definitely be doing that
I know and I am sure the guy who sold it to me is still kicking his own behind... Thx I will check it out... Hehehehehe I just used it to pull out a fence - it's usual chain is to bulky
Thx Seatwarmer - that will be awesome if he is still around.. my son lives in KDP.. (I am in Upington) so if he is still around I can get my son to go part shopping
is die bokkop nog steeds op die watertoring by 8SAI ?
Sal moet kyk as wanneer ek weer op die dorp kom - kom nie gereeld daar nie
Yair . . . td25c . Thanks for picture . . . I was on the wrong tangent completely, didn't study the picture properly or comprehend your post . . . I was thinking trunnions at the back end of the push beams. Having said that . . . and bearing in mind I don't get around gear very much these days and my memory apparently is shot . . . I seem to remember tractors with ball ends or spherical bushes on the blade to allow for tilt, I wonder what machines they were? Cheers.
Here is where mine connects to the blade
More around the blade.....
Bad news, the plot is still there but it looks like a drug den and no machines left. I'll be on the lookout in East Rand, there are a lot of companies with spares for old machines and I have a few customer sites there.
Lovely NSA ;-) - Anything will help Seatwarmer
Andrew I think that were a South African modification, I remember seeing it a lot in the 70's and 80's on various makes of dozers
Yair . . . I find it amazing . . . and concerning. I have lost the plot completely. Someone please set me straight . . . as td25c mentions on Boerseuns tractor there appears to be a block or knuckle with a short pin top and bottom retained by that heavy shaped plate and weldment. So what's it's purpose? To me it would allow the blade more side to side movement and put more stress on the diagonal braces between the pushbeam and the blade, what am I missing here? As with the pin arrangement as shown by td25c the twisting moment created by actuating the tilt ram is still transferred back along the push beam and accommodated by slop/wear and the pushbeams rotating on the trunnions. Cheers.
Yair . . . I find it amazing . . . and concerning. I have lost the plot completely. Someone please set me straight . . . as td25c mentions on Boerseuns tractor there appears to be a block or knuckle with a short pin top and bottom retained by that heavy shaped plate and weldment. So what's it's purpose? To me it would allow the blade more side to side movement and put more stress on the diagonal braces between the pushbeam and the blade, what am I missing here? As with the pin arrangement as shown by td25c the twisting moment created by actuating the tilt ram is still transferred back along the push beam and accommodated by slop/wear and the pushbeams rotating on the trunnions. Cheers.
Yair . . . Crikey, how'd that happen, sorry about the double post. Cheers,
Definitely puts more stress on diagonal braces assuming pins are still tight on the older blade arrangements. I notice that newer CAT dozers and probably others use the same universal joint type arrangement as Boersun's tractor. All I can assume is that they allow a greater degree of movement than the old arrangement.
Nou daai is 'n mooi stootskraper, Boerseun. Where did you find it? Are you ripping to plant grapes?
What kind of goat head is painted on the water tower, seatwarmer? A Boer goat? We have some of those in our area.
I wish I could find a deal like that. going by your serial number your machine is a 71 model the series b started at serial number 10301
Nope, an Eland, 8SAI unit emblem Boer goats in Texas ? Did you import them ?
Yes, they've been imported. They started showing up about 15 years ago.
Urm the 2 legged or 4 legged variety ? :drinkup
THX hd16b now I know what year mine is... I might be getting my hands on an HD21 as well
Dankie Paarl Nope - extending current corn field / wheat field for my neighbor
That HD16 is a beauty, (and the HD21 ain't bad neither). Most equipment that gets parked in my part of the world is pretty well shot. Too many other hillbilly wrenchers that run till there's nothing left to sit on top of! Good luck with the machine. I started a thread in Old Iron with pics of my dad's HD7 (much older, smaller, and noisier cousin to the Fiats.) (not trying to hijack your thread, but some of the Fiat-Allis guys on here might like to see it.)