My new (to me) lowboy has been getting the once over before we load it up and use it. It's a 1996 talbert with pilot hub aluminum rims. Picture is from on the way home with it, it needed bearings (yes- that's probably how it ended up at ritchie brothers, there's always a reason its on a auction). While doing wheel bearings, I found a shot brake, with a pretty unevenly worn drum. I went ahead and remounted the wheel, with rims and tires with the new bearings in, figuring I could then dismount the rims to get to the drum, then do brakes, and drum, and reinstall. My 3/4 impact gun won't touch the lug nuts. New 3/4" wright 42" ratchet (just got a few months ago and love it, no more short cheater pipes on a standard ratchet),wouldn't loosen them. Next with 5' cheater pipe, torch heated nut (kept hand on aluminum wheel, making sure I didn't overheat it) no go, kept spinning the tires (trailer on axle, with wheel blocked). Next with the wheel nylon rigged to the frame extension to keep the tire from spinning, and still not loose, I did manage to shear the drive head on my 3/4" extension (old usa made extension). I don't know what they've tightened these lug nuts with, but I'm not a small boy, and me on a 5' cheater pipe will loosen most things, especially with a little heat. Aren't they only supposed to tighten to 400ft-lbs? Don't have a 1" drive 33mm/1-5/16" socket, but ordered one, I've got a old 1" drive impact that I've never used. Also have a torque multiplier 3/4" in 1" out, but I don't know if I'll keep it held, I thought I could get its handle down on the pavement, then put the crank to it, but I'm going to really be winding up the pressure. Also debated repulling hub, torch off the stud heads from the inside, and drive them through. Advice? (aside from don't buy old trailer's:Banghead)
You are trying to turn them counterclockwise? Hub pilots are RH thread no matter which side of the truck or trailer they are on. Usually a super power 1/2" gun takes them off easily. Or some dip with a 1" gun has torqued them to the point the threads have galled to the point of being welded.
I've never seen anything less than a 1" impact used on those lug nuts and thimbles, to point of refusal. Tire trucks typically have their air set up to 150 psi in addition so..... Rotation should be stamped in the end of the thimble, just to be sure. If you don't know, the rule is if you only remove the outer like to repair a flat, remove outer wheel, tighten all thimbles for inner wheel, install outer wheel, snug up two or three nuts to align wheel, tighten lug nuts in a random cross pattern. YMMV
"Hub pilot" "33mm socket" No inner nuts, no 1" gun normally required. Not a Budd wheel.
Thanks guys, they aren't budds, and they are all rh thread, (learned about the LH thing long ago) they're just really tight. I actually had the dirty thought of just throwing new pads on it and leaving the drum alone. But I know some day, those tires will need changed (probably on the side of the road). And I'll trash the new pads on the worn odd drum. Sooo.... I'd rather fix it at the shop than on the side of the road. I'm thinking now I need to check all the other one's too. Anyone ever use one of those tire gear reducers like this: https://www.toolsource.com/misc-c-3...cOiwIX1C_dy64KJqXbPvooXB6wvYXHi7OUaAss58P8HAQ My torque multiplier is the standard snap on style: http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-4-Tool-Di...-nm-4-1-Ratio-Torque-Multiplier-/262649874976 Think I'll get it stuck down on the pavement and bust them loose? or just have it ride up the whole trailer and come across and smack me?
I think the vibration from a good impact wrench would work best. Just sayin'
I just haven't ever had Pilot hubs be this tight. I've had budd's cause me problems (usually the inner nuts strip or turn or both), usually don't struggle with dayton's, but these are ridiculous. I'm about 6'6" 240, and I only made 1 nut screech, gave up on a couple others, before the 3/4" extension sheared. Tried heat, hammering (impact gun and sledge), and I had my new ratchet flexing a little more than I like to see. Should have a 1" drive impact socket on Monday (thanks amazon), I'll try the 1" gun first (maybe the rattling will help), then probably give a crack at it with the torque multiplier, but I think I'm going to end up sliding the hub back off, and blowing off the heads with the torch and driving them out from the back side.
Get a one inch gun on good pressure with a big hose or stop by a tire shop and they will be loose before you can say "that was easy" A half inch gun is a good joke
Never had a problem removing properly torqued hub pilot nuts with my 1/2" Aircat. And I do use a torque wrench to tighten them. The OP's wheel nuts are rusted or seized from overtightening.
I stand corrected, need my glasses cleaned, sorry!
been there done the same you problem didn't get the nut's hot enough make them cherry red. your are right better to do it at the shop instead of road side running late with a permit load and a lazy tire man
If they have been overtightened and stretched better replace the studs or they will snap at a bad time after the backtwist required to loosen them and then retightened. Wonder how I know that?
Use some penetrating oil on the lugs, every one on the trailer. Now and twice on Sunday. If you use anything besides an impact, put some weight on the top of the tire so it won't move. A couple ratchet straps compressing the springs on the other two axles might do it, alternately a porta power "boosting" the spring to put more weight on the axle you're honking on. If they break loose, turn them just enough to get a shot of penetrating oil to the backside of the nuts, then tighten back and forth till they loosen enough if there's danger of seizing. I'm skeptical of the first torque multiplier. The second style isn't as likely to come up and get you, because you're going to put enough weight on it, and it reduces the rotation at the same ratio it multiplies the torque. You should be able to break those studs off with a 1" setup. For your sake I hope the impact wrench does the trick. "Get a one inch gun on good pressure with a big hose" The same applies to a 3/4" gun too. If you don't have a long enough big hose, add an accumulator with a short big hose direct to the gun, big fittings no quick couplers.
Put a little penetrating oil on this morning, going to hit them again later today delmer, so I think I've got the twice on Sunday covered Got my tools all lined up ready to go, just waiting on the mailman to show up with my 1" drive socket. I'm already running a 3/4" line for my 3/4" impact gun, and I've already got the air compressor cranked up (150psi). Airing up tires to 100psi seems to take forever if your compressors only set at 120. I also found something I had forgotten about- A 1-1/2" drive airgun I picked up at the auction where I got the 1" gun. I threw it in the corner with the 1" drive gun, haven't had to hook either one up yet. I know I don't have a socket for it. Also- the 3/4" extension that fell to the carnage yesterday- it was a snap on. I always feel worse breaking a good tool, than a cheap one.
I win. 1" gun with a couple days of penetrating oil. Think the hammering did more than the oil, but WHO CARES IT'S OFF:bouncegri Had to wait a couple times for the compressor to build back up. One nut took 3 times of hammering, waiting for the compressor to build back up, hammer till out of air, and waiting again, but it eventually came off. I think it saw that torch hovering in the back, and knew I wasn't giving up.
did you get the other 5 set's off too go head gett'er done or you will think about them every mile you pull it and every night before
It's on the list. I figure I can pull one nut at a time, anti-seize it, and reinstall. Then I know they will all come off. I also have a bent aluminum rim, i think they've had a double blowout somewhere along the line, the inner rim beside it is different from all the other rims. I've tapped out a small ding, with a big hammer and a block of wood, but I'm afraid this one might crack if I go for straight. You can kind of see it in this picture at 5'oclock. It's probably got a good 6" flat spot. I think its going to become the spare rim and tire, and I'm looking for a rim to swap out. That bent one would just be a good excuse for someone to pull me over.
Oh this trailer and me keep going round and round. The detachable neck moves by cylinders on the top, and pivots on a 2 5/8"inch shaft on the bottom. Oh and there's a reason I know it's that exact size.:Banghead It all started with trying to get the inner tower grease zerks to take grease. That's where it pivots, the outer fork arms have 1/2" bolts, holding the outside of the shaft stationary. Won't take grease, so we removed the 1/2" bolts to see if we could get it to turn and clean it out to grease it. We discovered that when the top cylinders are rolling, the bottom shaft was turning on one side, but not the other, so the shaft must be sheared inside one of the collar's where you couldn't see it, meaning we've been lucky these last couple trips. I thought I'd heat a little, hit it once or twice with a hammer and pop it out. It had other ideas, evidently Noah and his son's were the last one's to grease it, just after getting off the ark. The flood started it rusting together, and it hasn't stopped since. I ended up cutting the center 3' of the shaft out. Then cutting up between the outer forks, and the inner tower, splitting it into four, 5 to 6 inch shafts trapped in collar's. This is after it's split: This is where I cut it to split it, I used a cut off wheel for 1/3 of it, then finished with a sawzall and oil, not fun. This looks like it should have moved them, but even with heating the collar's up cherry, didn't budge any of the pins.
I'm such a stubborn @#$%, I stayed till 11:00 last night fighting pins, I don't swing a sledge like I used to. I ended up getting one pin out without torching the pin. The other three were not so easy. I ended up blowing out from each end with the torch, making a relief hole, and then a slot to each side. Then I still had to drive out the remnants with a sledge, HARD. I was out on a job this morning, but finished taking the last one out this afternoon. I think a gas axe/ carbon gouge, would have been easier than the torch, but I don't own one. I tried my 250 amp miller stick welder (electric) all cranked up, I could get a hole going, but after a little bit, the breaker wouldn't take it. It wasn't pretty, but all I need now is a shaft and we'll be back in business. The biggest surprise was the shaft was NOT sheared. It was frozen up in the bushings, and when I would rotate it, the shaft was actually TWISTING with the torque. It's got 4 big cylinders up in the neck, and it picked the crane up and down, but I think we were on borrowed time.
Well looks like the only thing your missing now is a flip axle there Super Trucker. Hope you get the stubborn girl back in tip top without much more trouble.
Warn pins get a "cam" look to them.... I use a hyd jack like you did to add pressure, and then try to move the piece til the Step/cam lines up... it pops, moves... then add more pressure at the next step/cam edge... JAM
Got the trailer back together today. New shaft showed up Friday, and I got after it this morning. Had to do a little tweaking around on the outer forks to get the shaft in. I marked it, then kind of jigged it up, to drill the 1/2" holes. I don't know how everyone else drills 1/2" holes in 2 5/8" shaft, but this is what I did. Started with 1/4" hole and worked up. It's a drill press that came from a production table, we just kind of clamp it up on stuff that's too big to put on the floor drill press. I just clamped it to one of the steel tables in the shop. The outer forks and inner tower took a little pushing and pulling with the forklift, the cylinders, and a chain come a long and a jack. Eventually I got it all lined up and the shaft is in. And it takes grease.
That's how mine looked, too. What a mess, huh? Hopefully we won't have to deal with this issue ever again.
Sounds like you had your fair share of problems, but with grit n determination you got through it. Good work! We did our annual safety on our lowboy when it was all apart with the blasting & painting job. All wheel bearings were good (put new seals on), needed new drums & shoes on the front axle, as the drums were "bell mouthed" & the shoes were wore unevenly. Our main pivot pin on the gooseneck has welded retainer plates that hold the pivot in place, so we did not take our pivot apart when blasting & painting, just kept moving the pivot to different positions to get the blasting & painting done.
I hope I never have to mess with my pins again either shimmy1. Metalmann- I love how your trailer looks after the rebuild. I'm working right now on scaling off the rust, I've got one or two places to patch, and then it's getting some paint.
Crane operator, sorry I got to the party late, but to get pins like that out, we use a torch with a piece of pipe on it and welder to plunge gouge through the pin, takes a few minutes and you eat out the shaft and they usually are pounded out with a small hammer, out of pocket cost is a section of 1/4 inch pipe and weld on tab on it to hook the welder to and a short hose to hook to the oxygen regulator. Nice job with the shaft though, I had to do the same thing to one of my lowboy's years ago, we also had to use a die grinder inside the bushing and cut a groove around it for the grease to go all the way around the shaft, mine froze up because there was no grease groove and the grease shot right by the zerk and 3/4ths of the shaft never got grease and rusted up solid.
Randy not really sure how you do this. "Crane operator, sorry I got to the party late, but to get pins like that out, we use a torch with a piece of pipe on it and welder to plunge gouge through the pin, takes a few minutes and you eat out the shaft and they usually are pounded out with a small hammer, out of pocket cost is a section of 1/4 inch pipe and weld on tab on it to hook the welder to and a short hose to hook to the oxygen regulator. " Do you have a picture? Or exactly how is it done? Thanks Randy
You're basically making a oxy lance then, just using your torch as the oxygen source, are you hooking your lead to the pipe then? Does the slag come out the outside of the pipe, or up the inside?
Yes its a lance, I looked this morning and its 1/8 inch pipe not 1/4 inch, I just hook up a shut off valve to the end of the pipe and weld a short tab on it to hook the welder lead on it to get a spark to light it, unhook the torch line from the oxygen regulator and hook up a line directly to the gas valve on the pipe, crank up the regulator to at least 80 psi or there about and keep the shut off valve off on the lance. Hook you welder stinger to the tab and turn on the welder and put a ground clamp on the work piece your torching, make sure you have plenty of fire proof clothing on and a helmet and touch the pipe to the work piece to get an arc and open the gas valve at about the same time, once lit you can unhook the welder stinger and the oxygen will blow the slag out towards you, it goes not up the pipe but outside it and the oxygen pressure blows the slag out of the shaft and hole your gouging, hence the need for the fire proof clothing, gloves and helmet, and keep contacting the pipe to shaft your blowing the hole through and your consuming the pipe as you shove it in so your getting closer to the work piece as you go. Once you have a hole started completely through, I usually gouge it out wider and then the slag will blow through the hole instead of back at you. I think there are some video's on youtube about it, I've never taken a video of it, basically don't have enough around to shoot the video and its over so fast we seldom have time to worry about it. Its very cheap and simple way to do it, doesn't take much, but some practice helps a lot before you go near a bushing your wanting to save, its messy and not hard to get off center and into the bushing and through it so fast, you don't have time to even say, OH SH*T. We've done it for manure tanker spindles that are eight inch solid shafts and rusted tight, had to do my scraper steering cylinder pins to get the cylinders off so we could reseal them. Done quite a few walking tandems on wagons over the years and had to do the shafts on the front of my detaches like you just did, but mine was rusted solid and snapped off. We just cut the shafts off flush to the bushing and blew a hole through where the bushing was seized up at, took a hammer and knocked the remnants of the shaft out with a small hammer. I also have the end with a gas valve and tab welded on separate and use a pipe coupler to hook a new three foot pipe to that I would call the consumable, that way I just put a new piece of pipe on when I'm done and its ready to go the next time and there is no welding or hooking up a gas valve again and nothing to remake for the next time. Hope this helps for next time, sorry I was too late to help you out on this project.
Thought I'd show some pictures from yesterday. Got a fresh coat of paint on it, after knocking off the rust. Just pulled out of the shop:
Nice looking refurbishment there Crane Operator. Did you sandblast too, or just clean it up & sand it?
Looks great
We just wire brushed and needle scaled the rust off. I didn't want to have it down for the time we would need to sandblast it all. I had to patch 2 holes half dollar size in the cross stringers. Main frames are pretty good. It looks better in the pictures than it probably does in person. Car guys call that a 40 footer paint job- looks great from 40 feet. I clean and wire brush, chip it all, then put on a layer of rustoleum rusty metal primer (it seems to bite into the old paint). Then finish coat- 2 layers. We've just paint roller and brushed the last two trailers, rather than spraying. I use the small foam rollers and cheap brushes for the corners, and the paint seems to lay down and the brush marks disappear. Plus I don't have to clean a spray gun, or deal with all the overspray and paint loss from that. If the phone rings in the middle of spraying its a big pain, if your just rolling and brush, its easier to put off until later.