Purchased a Hitachi ex60-3 last summer from a Beck equipment in New York a reputable dealer supposedly and found out a disturbing thing last week. This was a GMM and Beck did not inform me of this when I asked they said that it was not. In fact all ex60's are GMM machines! Asked 5 Star the Hitachi dealer in NY and they told me that Beck was obligated to tell me that it was GMM. Do you guys think that the dealer is obligated to tell me that machine is GMM. I would of looked at another non GMM machine if. Now I have a bad taste in my mouth (YUK) after this deal. I also bought a 2001 DEER 450H LT from them last summer so I spent quite a bit of money. I know some of you guys will say buyer beware. I feel that Beck should of at least be honest with me. The starter went bad and could not find one thru the Hitachi dealer for a week. They did find one after the week of looking and wanted $800.00 for it and two weeks to ship. I called NAPA and they had it and sent it over night to me the next day for $450.00. NAPA is the best!! The kicker to the story was that this machine was under water for two days and the need to get it started and get the water out of it was the difference between a new motor of maybe just some fluid changes. Digging a pond and it went very bad leave that story for another thread. The good news is I did replace starter and two in line fuses and battery cable and all fluids and filters and I lucked out the machine is fine. Sorry for the ramble but what do you guys think? Dealer should tell or hide the fact on GMM machines.
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does GMM mean? I feel that if you ask any dealer about anything, machine, car, toaster oven, they should be obliged to tell you... course thats just me:wink2 -jim
GMM is gray market machine meaning that it was not made for USA. Parts are harder to find and cost more.
I think sellers should be obligated to disclose if it's a gray machine. I've had a lot of folks tell me there's absolutely no difference between gray and US machines, but I've talked to too many folks that found out this isn't always the case. I considered buying a gray machine, but felt it was too much of a gamble for me. btw, I'm glad you were able to get your machine back up and running.
thanks jmac
Was the machine sold as brand new zero hours or used? Sold with warranty or as seen? When did they tell you it was not gray unit... at time of sale or after all your problems surfaced?
There's a few subtle hints when buying the used ones. Most of them have that little blue sticker of the japanese face "winking" at you. Dead giveaway. Next is the japanese symbols in the cab. I realize that most machines built for the US acutally still have some japanese in them, but don't most grey market machines have 100% japanese writing in the cabs? Another thing, if you're buying a 120 sized machine and it has rubber pads on them, chances are it's a GMM. Most of the machines in japan are used on the streets. Also, the buckets sometimes have a very flat bottom or those really wide teeth that basically form a toothbar for squeegee'ing the mud that they have for dirt over there.
The reasons why a machine may not be fully compliant for a particular country can be many and varied and can be something as simple as a certificate for the engine to a major drama with ROPS. Speaking very generally in most cases a machine will comply its just if it was not ordered for that market/country then all the documentation for compliances may not have been prepared by the factory although it would comply it in areas. The major differnces can be in labelling/manuals, noise, pollution, and in some cases the design of the hydraulic system (safety issues) may not be in order. Certification of lifting points and load/performance ratings may be another area. At the end of the day it is more of "vehicle" certification than it is of actual machine performance or construction. Anything which is a lifting device can be a serious problem though. Finding out why the machine is not compliant can be the hardest thing and you may need to know from an insurance perspective. Some gray market machines can have parts cross referenced no problem but others are a complete dead loss. Caveat Emptor
Gmm JMAC : I own a John Deere farm tractor that is a GM tractor. Got it out of ignorance. Went to a tractor auction this well kept John Deer came across the block bid on it. Ended up with it. Got it home had the extra seat ect made in Germany. Ignorant me JD , Chevy and apple pie meant American to me. I bought a parts manual for it after months on order, this helped with parts. There is not any big problems getting parts. Resale is not good. It is used on a bat-wing cutter when sold it will be salvage anyway.
IMHO if you flat out asked them if it was grey market and they lied and said no - then I would cross them off of the reputable dealer list. Not too sure what you can do about it now though. Have you talked to them since you found out that it is GM? If you really don't want it maybe try to get them to take it back for the sale price less an allowance for the hours you put on it towards another non grey market machine. Not sure that they would go for it but all they can say is "No".
I did speech to Beck about it and they said that it was wrong of them to not disclose this when I purchased the machine. Especially if I asked them specifically if it was a gray market machine. It was used and had a 30 day guarantee. That being said they would not let me return it. I just put about $3000.00 into it so I have to keep it. The next time I will check sn#'s before buying anything. Auction purchases might be hard to check sn's because of the time frame. This machine was not a auction machine. As far as I am concerned Beck owes me big time on the next one. If I give them a chance to do the next one. Thank you for the opinions on this and I think the consensus is that the dealer has the obligation to tell you if you are buying a Gray Market Machine.
I wouldn't bother with them. Like that old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Don't shame on yourself with equipment, you could be between a rock and a hard place if they screw you again, don't give them the chance to do so.
Sue their a** Sue their a**. Go ahead, just do it. Sounds like fraud to me. What jurisdiciton are you located in?
Being from a foreign contry does not make a machine a gray market. That is key to keep in mind. As Sqizzy and Cascade said, they may build slight variences for different markets. For example when a tractor is built for the Korean market and somebody loads it in a container and brings it here for resale is where you run into trouble. The dead giveaway is no english warning stickers or no english on the manufacturers tag. Run as far as you can from these machines. They generally are lacking safety equipment such as seat belts, roll-over protection and emmisions. I see farm tractors at auctions from time to time and homeowners who don't know what they are looking at will walk right into the trap. Hope you have good luck with it. For the most part, you can probably find the parts, it just may take a little effort.
It maybe of little comfort now ... but try not to lose too much confidence in the machine itself ... they are great little excavator with a minor amount of care and feeding ! From a parts perspective (with the *exception* of the engine) your final drives, propel motors, swing motor & gearbox, hydraulic pump, control valve, cylinders, boom, arm, cab and most other parts are all the same parts as a the Deere 190E !
I purchased Grey market & I new it was a grey. A PC75UU-2E. Does anyone know what the UU-2E means? In any case, I have the support of Komatsu dealer, even though it was bought on a private sale. I should be getting a new bucket for it tomorrow as the hydraulic thumb would not work with the old bucket. I will mod the old bucket this winter. I hope this machine works for me as I have not got it on our property yet.
Mike, Bearing in mind that the machines are named in Japan for a world market I've heard that the UU is supposed to represent ultra-urban, the 'dash' 2E just means the build series.
I would contact your state's attorney and or Consumer Protection, maybe even the police as you are the consumer here. I think it is illegal for a liscensed dealer not to disclose (on the machine label, invoice etc) that it is a "Gray Market Machine" Its improper advertising. Beyond that they may have improper or forged paperwork on it or it could even being stolen etc. I think you could probably force them to take it back if bought recently, if nothing else may be able to get them to help in getting parts or some other concession.
My grandfather had a gray market Kubota tractor for a while and it worked fine except for the fact that when a part was needed (which was seldom) it was difficult to find. I've got a gray market Takeuchi TB-125 (Tiger) (mid 90's maybe?) mini excavator that has worked great and although not as nice in terms of controls especially as some of the non gray market units is still a good machine.
Anyone know the best place to get a tech manual or even some pics of the Hitachi EX60-3 undercarriage? Replacing idler, yoke, etc....
Could of been the salesmen was just going off of what was told to him about it, In any instance nothing worse than a salesman trying to pull the wool over your eyes just to make a sale. I would rather buy a piece of junk that someone was upfront and honest about it than a piece of junk that someone lied to me about. I think going to back and talking to them was a smart move, it will at the very least put a check on future sales to other customers, so you've saved somebody a headache later on that will buy from them. I dont think I would get all sue happy on them, too much of that these days
There is really nothing wrong with the smaller grey market machines (except those ones with the funky sideshift booms..stay away from those!!).A good partsman is what you all really need...one who has a good auto-electric shop is his rolodex,where they could have repaired your existing starter. Heck,I even knew an ex60 is the same as a 190e. The bigger the machine though,the more parts issues you have when going grey.
I hav e bought several gray market cat. machine in the trackhoe area.I have never had a problem getting parts.The biggest problem was the attitude of the partsmen.