I'm looking at a buying 1983 JD 410, however I'm concerned there may be a problem with the reverser or main clutch, and I know virtually nothing about this machine. When I drive the tractor, if I try to start out in high range 1st gear (5th gear I guess), it is ok on level ground, but it will not move if on any hill at all. First question: Is this normal? I'm thinking it should either go, or stall, but not just sit there. It does not stall, but the motor loads down some, and it just doesn't go. If I let off the throttle to near idle, sometimes it will grab and go. If I switch to low range lower gears, it moves ok. It seems to be about the same in forward or reverse. The hydraulics for the hoe, loader and stabilizers work fine, plenty of power and flow. Only other significant problem is the brakes chatter a lot. Also, about half of the hydraulic fluid was just changed prior to the test drive due to a leak repair. The new fluid was shield AW32. I'm not at all familiar with these machines. Any help or advice is appreciated. Garret
It dosent seem like a problem. The higher gears are road gears.
If it's the same in forward and reverse then I am pretty sure the main clutch is slipping. Might just need some maintenance or adjustment of pedal and linkage, OR it could mean you need to split the tractor to change out the main clutch. I agree with you, from the parts book and memory these things either went or killed the engine, no slippage anywhere.
Scottgs, In 1983 Deere began making the 410B but that is a 4 speed (not 8 speed) so you must have one of the very last 1983 410s. I did own a 1981 410 and yours should be exactly the same. If so you can definitely start in 1st gear high range. That is the only way you can bring it up to speed on the road as you cannot change from low range to high range on the fly. You do have a dry clutch in the bell housing just like a truck engine but the dry clutch is only ever disengaged when you lift a leave on the clutch pedal ( with your left hand) so you can press the pedal right down to the floor. This mode is only used to help crank the motor in cold weather. So you never ride the dry clutch like you do in a truck. Therefore it should not be worn and slipping unless it has a problem that prevents it from returning to a fully engaged or released position. Lift the leaver on the clutch pedal and get someone to operate the clutch (engine not running) while you look under the tractor to see what is happening.
Hi Scottg, I had an older JD 310 model, very similar setup. As mentioned above, it should go or stall in any of the higher gears. You said that AW32 fluid was added to the system. I believe it calls for a multipurpose tractor fluid (can't remember the proper type) that is used for hydraulics, gears and brakes. The AW32 should have no effect on your clutch slippage problem but may be causing the brake chatter that you have. Hope you find the problem, that machine will do you well once you get the bugs out of it.
I also have an older 310 with similar setup. I had the same slipping problem in the higher gears. A clutch pedal linkage adjustment solved the problem.
Thank you all for the advice. This is not my backhoe yet, I am considering buying it, but I don't want to buy a repair project, as I have enough projects already! Deon, thank you for clearly explaining the clutch system. I knew it has both a dry clutch on the flywheel, and clutches in the reverser system, but didn't understand how they interacted. So one thing that is puzzling me is that the clutch pedal always seems to go to the floor, and it is a long, long way back up. So I need to look for a leaf that limits the travel during normal driving? Am I understanding correctly that to shift gears while driving, I only need press the clutch part way? Deon, how do I tell which clutch is slipping by looking underneath? Not that I'm going to crawl underneath while trying to drive it! I am concerned about the fluid, as I expect if it's straight hydraulic fluid, it's probably not so good for the transmission gears, as well as other problems it could cause because it's about 1/2 the proper viscosity. So here is a question: I have read in the US Military manual for the 410 that some serial numbers cannot go in reverse in low range, but others can go reverse in all gears. So maybe as far as reverse goes, I'm trying to do something it can't do? Is anyone familiar with this? Is there a source for an electronic copy of the owners manual that I could download? Not maintenance, but something where I could learn about properly operating the backhoe? Thanks again for the help, Garret
Don't know anything about not going in reverse in any range. Needs to work in reverse in low range or you can't work it. Clutch pedal should have a rotating lever that hits the floor when down to limit travel. Should never try to operate anything on the machine while clutch is all the way down. Only use this mode to start in cold weather, then immediately flip back down after started. Shifting in reverse is done with the shuttle shift lever on left side of steering column. Do not press clutch pedal to shift from forward to reverse or vise versa. Only press clutch to stop or coast like when dumping a load from loader. Can shift shuttle in neutral for the same effect. The clutch pedal or the shuttle shift do the same thing. They are actually a switch (for lack of a better word) to disconnect the transmission from the motor. Each time you release the clutch or place the shuttle in forward or revers the machine will move. You cannot ride the clutch. It's on or off and the activation is cushioned by means of an accumulator. (a cylinder with nitrogen at one end and hydraulic oil in the other that acts like a shock absorber). The oil in the transmission case is the oil that supplies the whole machine. Use only oil that meets JD specification I think its J20A or later J20C. Don't need to buy from Deere as long as the J20...is there. I don't remember what the dry clutch linkage looks like but it similar to a truck so you should find a rod or some sort of attachment on the side of the bell housing that needs to have slack in it when the pedal is released or it can slip if there is no slack. The internal hydraulic clutch is pretty tough as the manual says you can shift from forward to reverse back an forth at any engine speed including wide open throttle.
I need to correct my previous post regarding not being able to use reverse in one of the ranges. I meant to say "High" range, typed low by accident. The Military 410 manual clearly states that certain serial numbers cannot be used in reverse in HIGH range. Sorry about that. I do understand about the shuttle, and only having to shift it to go from forward to revers. All of the backhoes which I've used before were that way too. This JD 410 seemed to function fine with the shuttle the first time I test drove it, including several tests I did while the tractor was still moving forward very slowly and I shifted the shuttle only to reverse. It all seemed fine to me. It was not until the next day, after the oil change, that I noticed it would not pull any hill in high range reverse, and I'm pretty sure it was the same in forward. I just didn't notice anything like that the day before. I did not know about the proper clutch pedal operation though, that it had two stages. And maybe that is my problem Because, I may have pressed the clutch all the way down before I shifted the shuttle to reverse to try and go back up the hill. The reason I did this was because I was in 2nd gear high range, and I felt like I had better start out in 1st gear. Therefore I came to a stop, pressed the clutch all the way down, shifted from 2nd to 1st, then shifted the shuttle to reverse, then released the clutch... and it would not go in reverse. I then pressed the clutch again, tried again to make sure I was in 1st, released clutch, and it still would not go. So then I pressed clutch again, shifted into low range, released clutch, and it would then climb back up the hill. Again, this is a very slight grade, just a couple percent probably, nothing I would have expected any trouble with. So my question is, could me pressing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor be causing a problem that the reverser would slip after I release the clutch again? Am I causing the transmission hydraulics to not have pressure because the transmission is completely disconnected when the clutch pedal is all the way down? If so, then this could explain why it was fine the day before, because the day before I only shifted with the shuttle when I was on that hill. Deon, thanks for taking the time to point out the proper clutch operation. I would never have known otherwise since there is virtually no way to obtain an operator's manual quickly. Garret
Could be the cause of the problem if the clutch pedal has not been pressed to the floor in many years and you did it for the first time it may be sticking and not properly returning to full pressure. I would get under the machine with penetration oil spray and spray the linkages and get inside and work the pedal about 20 or more times or until it loosens up. Then be sure the pedal lever is flipped down so you can't use that function again. Then do your hill test. There should never be any slippage. The engine should bog down and stall if you climbing a steep hill in too high a gear. Oh, one more thing. You will notice that when the clutch is to the floor, the machine will be much quieter because of all the drive train and low pressure hydraulic pump is now at rest.
I think you are correct in some respects about the transmisison pump, if you declutch the flywheel clutch it probably stops turning the transmission pump, might take a while to get pressure back up for the reverser to engage the forward or reverse clutch packs. Sounds like Deon has you on the right track.