I'm looking at getting GPS equipment.I have been looking and calling trying to get information on what i need.It will be Topcon ,not Trimble. After three days of searching and calling i still need help answering a few of my questions.I'm pretty sure i will be going with the Hiper Lite+.My question is do you need a base station setup+rover.That is where i'm confused. On the website they are calling it base station,reciever in the next sentence,rover.So what do i need.we have no network here. This is what i need to know will this setup work........1 Hiper Lite+base station? 1 handheld controller TC 120 with survey software.Will need more but need this answered first. Or do i need Hiper Lite+ basestation..........Hiper Lite+ rover and handheld contoller?????????? Got more question ,but this would help for now Thanks:usa
After three days of searching and calling i still need help answering a few of my questions.I'm pretty sure i will be going with the Hiper Lite+.My question is do you need a base station setup+rover.That is where i'm confused. On the website they are calling it base station,reciever in the next sentence,rover.So what do i need.we have no network here. This is what i need to know will this setup work........1 Hiper Lite+base station? 1 handheld controller TC 120 with survey software.Will need more but need this answered first. Or do i need Hiper Lite+ basestation..........Hiper Lite+ rover and handheld contoller?????????? Got more question ,but this would help for now Thanks OK, the HiPer Lite+ can be a base, or rover. It can be setup as a base or rover, which is nice once you have a few units.. I ran them for years and loved them!!!! They do have some radio limitations (will not go as far as a UHF and some line-of-site issues), which is why they are cheaper than a similar unit with a UHF radio, such as a GR3. They are very rugged units!!! The FC120's are good the FC200' is much better, faster, more memory, better bluetooth, usb slot!!! I always used Pocket 3D. To be overly simple: RTK GPS needs a "base station" for a correction signal, and a "rover" machine, or HiPer. Typically you need (1) HiPer as a Base Station, (1) HiPer w/ a FC200 Data Collector as a Rover to localize the job and check grade, and a machine. Go to: http://www.topconpositioning.com/static/dealer_pointer.php , find your local dealer. Ask to speek to the GPS Machine Control Salesperson. Ask them to explain GPS to you, get to know your salesperson!!!! I do currently sell Topcon Equipment.
Got about the same info from another forum also.I have dual grade laser,machine control system now.But is getting obsolete,partly why i'm thinking now might be the time for GPS. Really need to go used for the basestation and rover.Just can't go out of the box new because of my age and investment.May have to piece it togather anyway. With that said (GR-3 is out) newest, greatest,so how much better would Hiper Pro be over the Lite+.Also see their coming out with new one called Hiper XM(cover more sats) ??? to many searches sorry. I'm wanting to put this on a trencher,that already has laser valve,not proportional tho.Solnoid electric over hydraulic valve that runs the grade cylinder. Looked at the AGPS(aftermarket) setup and also AGS3 system Topcon uses for landleveling and survey you know anything about that and if you think would work???? Dirt email if you got some used equipment if you want.Thanks for the info.Anyone else using Topcon GPS equipment have any input?:usa
The HiPer type depends on how you are using it. It sounds like you are an Agg guy with wide open fields, flat fields, few buildings between you and the base. Then a Lite would be fine, a PRO would be a little better. "Looked at the AGPS(aftermarket) setup and also AGS3 system Topcon uses for landleveling and survey" I just use and sell the Construction side!!! No idea. I hmay have some used gear, i will be in touch.
Is there a reason you want Topcon over Trimble? I know the Trimble guy in Omaha is very good w/ GPS set ups. OC
I went to a Conexpo field day in Melborine,Iowa this summer and got hands on experience with Topcon amd Trimble equipped dozers mostly did run one excavtor with Topcon GPS system. The Topcon was the new 3d mc2 sytem the was spot on as fast as you could run a D6R dozer. Moved over to a D6T lgp with Trimble and it was all over the place.Did pretty good going south then turn machine around come back on same path just split blades and it was like it lost the sat no control at all. Moved over to a Komatso PX51 with Trimble better then the T but same problem just less extreme. In Trimble defense they had changed the cut depth ,so not sure if that was the problem or not.I asked for help to see if it was just me or something from at least two guys,they said try this and try that,neither helped.So i got off and told them something was messed up. The Topcon was simple screen,basicly red,green,yellow.Sure there was more adjustment for me it was just flip the toggle on auto and go. Everything around me is Trimble,but i was sure impressed with Topcon on that day.:usa
Field day!! This looks like a cool field day, How did the JD high speed dozer work? What is the machine in the last picture? Thanks for the pictures. OC
I didn't run it because they was alway a lineup,but all they was doing with it was trying to use it like a regular dozer which didn't do to bad ,but no comparison with a dozer. It needed to have the GPS system on it and be using it for what we were doing,but they didn't have it setup with anything.Deere brought in a 700J with Topcon on which worked well also.It had a few gliches,but they go them worked out after they got it set. They had just gotten it setup before the show and hadn't gotten it into the dirt until the show. It was a great event,two day event.I only got to stay the first day.Bunch more equipment.The trencher pic would be like mine that i want to put the GPS on.:usa
Dirt will a external PGA-1 anntenna work with the Hiper Lite and what is the part number for the adapter that fits on the back of the rover to use an external anntenna,so i can mount he rover in my trencher cab and mount the PGA-1 out on the machine above the trenchers wheel for machine control? Rover safe in cab just antenna out in the elements. Would like to know the cost of the adapter and antenna?Pm me if you want? The AGS 3D system is an ag things! Looks like something that would work for me.Can find it on Topcon Precision Ag website under landleveling and survey.Using machine control with AGS C control box,basicly like the old 9186 box i was told? Could use some more input from others .Thanks:usa
Topcon. Hello. I wound up with a Topcon unit cheap from a machine that was totaled. Since the machine was a wreck the antennas were also, but I have the display computer and control unit along with all of the cables and brackets. Except for the antennas, everything works, so once business picks up I will be ahead of the game. The point being, if you Know what you are doing you can pick up on a good deal here and there. If you do not, find that electronics geek who is a PITA but knows what he/she is doing and have a tag a long at some of the sales. I started with rebuilding EECU (Engine Computer) and went from there. Since I love iron as well as electronics this is a natural for me.
What was the machine that was damaged? Did you get the stuff through the insurance company? or got the complete machine and the GPS stuff came with it? What are you going to be using for base station and ,rover or do you have network close? Not an option here. Did pickup a control box(display) GX 60,it's a start. Does anyone see this stuff at sales,much? Topcon? Getting somethings sorted,but still have a problem as how the UHF radios are used as rover??? off a base station like Legacy E base station.Also how you get the info from the radio to hand controller or what ever your using for your data. Still lots of info needed,but thanks so far.Not many here using GPS Topcon i'm thinking.Did read all the other posts here,more on Trimble tho!
We have used Topcon for almost 6 years now and are quite happy with it. We have both a Legacy Base with Hiper+ Rover and a GR-3 base and rover. The GR-3 has been great, we recently replaced the Legacy's original radio with a digital one and have had good luck there also. I would recommend a base station if you are requiring consistent accuracy. The networks (such as the one set up by the state) have good horizontal tolerances but vertical is still very sketchy. The radio in the base communicates with the radio in the rover which then is synched with the controller, in our case an FC-100. All in all pretty user friendly and a good value for our investment
GPS won't work on a trencher, at least not good enough for me, stick with laser. Love them or hate them, Zeigler in Altoona will set you up if you want it anyway.
Got questions? How do you have yours setup and which one are you using? Topcon,Trimble,Deere RTK network? Lots of plow guys using GPS? for not working?You using base station and rover,or local state network? What machine do you lay drainage tile with plow or trencher? Laser has it's limits also! Distance and need grade breaker at times.My laser system is getting outdated,so to replace it work bring the cost of the GPS system down? I have laser system,will have machine setup for both, was wanting too use GPS for survey and faster lay out and mapping as tile is installed.(AGPS software will do this).Latec also has a small box they use with network GPS for measuring and mapping. Also do you use AGPS(has vertical curve tech) software on your trencher? If so what isn't working for you???? Ziegler pushes Trimble,i want Topcon(Star Equipment) if i go GPS.:usa
GPS simply isn't as accurate as a laser. That's why laser augmentation for GPS exists. I don't know much about trenching but I've laid a lot of pipe... for anything pressurized GPS works good, but for drainage pipes GPS is a no-no. When I was surveyor for an engineering company we'd check grade for waterline and dirt work with GPS, but for setting blue tops for a concrete pavement or staking/checking drainage pipe... The old rod and level is still the best.
Laser vs GPS. Hello. A correctly configured GPS system is nice, but can do only so much. I have an older Backhoe that I retrofitted with position sensing, the single best thing I ever did! Laser has its use, just like GPS, but I use a "plotted course" position when digging, that is to say, actually measure my position from the ground and set my position from there. GPS and Laser are nice, but for the kind of jobs I have been doing this is the best way.
For you you laser guys......... tell this GPS guys that you can't use GPS for installing drainage tile !!!!!! Check out this website>>>>>>>>> http://www.agpsinc.com/ Looks like lots of guys doing it for not working:beatsme I can't say,but would like to be able to use GPS.I have reseached a lot of infomation since i started thinking about trying this,and if i'm ever able to go GPS this will be the system i use. "Built by drainage contractors for drainage contracts". The ones here that says it won't work read this and then post back,and if you are using this system tell me why it doesn't work?????? Because of my age,cost,and return on investment short term and not longterm because of age reason.I probably won't pursue GPS.Mainly i don't use a plow and not enough flat ground,don't do a lot of pattern tiling,and enough feet per year to justify a GPS system. At least check out the link above and post back with your why nots,okay !!!!!!!!:usa
Here's a few more links and pics:usa http://swmsinc.tripod.com/ http://www.agpsinc.com/photo-user.htm http://swmsinc.tripod.com/Drainage.html First pic is plow ,notice setup with GPS Second is my trencher"Alberta" :usa
for drainage i think i would use gps for the directions and if the elevations is not accurate enough i would use a laser to correct it you have so many solutions tody with gps so no matter what or where you are doing you can alway find a solution that will help and if the gps is not accurate enough you can shoose a uts/ats solution whish still uses the same 3D models as gps but it is accurate within 1-3 mm in a radius at 800 meters i have used this solution myself on my dozer on a railway in a forest where the gps couldnt get any signal nobody uses laser anymore at least not in denmark
We are currently running equipment in remote parts of PNG. We are using a GPS system from Bigmate Monitoring Solutions. Highly recomend to anybody seeking good GPS system. www.bigmate.com.au
This really all depends on your acceptable tollerances for "accuracy". In my mobile field drainage and grading applications the Trimble Ag RTK GNSS I use is more stable and way more repeatable than any laser transmitter, especially when distance becomes involved and I've been using lasers since 1979. In short distance applications (less than 200 meters) I'll agree with the laser statement but anything over that, lasers are too prone to all sorts of environmental influences (dust, wind, heat shimmer, fog, humidity, temperature inversions etc.). With my GNSS I have graded sand profiles over 5 km of track at down to +/- 5 mm (1/4 inch) with next to no additional control assistance apart from the original Bench Mark set up - try that sort of machine control with laser or total station. It would also be successfully argued that static vertical accuracy with a satellite based solution can be a little bit variable and most guys using GPS for elevations would know that. Mind you, get a laser at a fair distance and you'd see more variation with that than you'd see from the GPS most times. .
GPS is more accurate than a laser when you consider real world scenarios. Too much room for error with laser. Have laid millions of feet of tile with GPS and no problems. Will never go back to a laser for accuracy and efficiency reasons.
Does anyone have any information about using 410- 470 hz compared too 915hz system. I was told due too changes in FCC rules that using the 400hz system will be more restrictive.Can't be used mobile like it has been .So some gps equipment will have too be updated or scrapped? Anyone care too give input about the difference in the 400hz and 900hz systems and how they work for you in your case.:usa
The UHF band (390-470MHz) is used throughout the world for surveying and machine control as it combines a reasonable bandwidth with good radio range. The popularity of this band results in frequent interference which may affect grading operations. A license to operate is required in many countries, including the US. The FCC license is tied to a geographic area, making it difficult to operate over a large area while staying legal. A few years ago, the mandated channel separation went from 25kHz down to 12.5kHz. New licenses have since been issued for 12.5kHz operation only. There has been talk of restricting it further, but I do not have the details at this moment. UHF radios have a fixed carrier wave (you select the frequency according to which frequencies you have been licensed for). This means you cannot prevent interference from other sources. Coding the signal from the base station does not reduce interference, it merely ensures you don't accidentally pick up the signal from another base that happens to be transmitting on the same frequency. Also, having the right to a frequency in a certain area does not prevent someone from interfering with your operation. -It only gives you a legal right to have him shut down, -if you can find him. Work stoppage is not cheap, so be sure you properly evaluate the risk of interference before selecting which type of radio to go with. 900MHz spread-spectrum radios continuously hop between transmitting frequencies which greatly reduces the possibility of interference. They are license free in the US. These radios have much greater bandwidth than UHF radios which enable them to be used for data transfer in addition to broadcasting positioning information. The only drawback with 900MHz radios is that they have less range that UHF radios. They do not penetrate objects well, making it necessary to set up repeaters to cover greater areas. How many repeaters are needed depends on the job site. Long road jobs usually need more repeaters that building/plant job sites. So, to sum it up: UHF has long range (fewer radios = lower cost), low bandwidth and suffers from interference. 900MHz has short range (more repeaters - higher cost), high bandwidth and excellent immunity from interference. -------------------------------------------------------------- Everything you always wanted to know about 3D machine control
It is relatively easy to change the radio type in a 3D machine control system. Whether you choose UHF or 900MHz, you can always change it later. -But, at a cost, of course.
Kellogg i have more questions imagine that !!!!! I have the Topcon GX60 box and now have a MCR3 machine reciver.Still need anntenna cables,plus need to decided on base station. The Topcon wedsite says the MCR3 has the UHF radio and drivers and etc built in.I know i need the IMU sensor for the blade. If i get a G3 base will i need a rover to make the machine work right now.The rover would be used too do survey with base right? but do i need rover on the trencher or will the MCR3 work if i get the information to the control box i need. Hundred of question so bear with me.Would be using the AGPS software above in my other posts. My MCR3 reciever says it is configured with Topcon digital UHF radio,but doesn't show the HZ it is running(your guess?).I thought i would have the S/N checked and maybe they could tell me how it was configured from the factory.I saw another MCR3 on the internet that was configured with digital UHF 410-470 modem ,so my guess they was using a network is that right? Would like to get some other peoples idea what works for them.I'm commented too Topcon now like it or not.Thanks for all your input.Wish there was more discussion on this!
There are several choices for a base unit, HiPer Ga, GR-3, Legacy, GB-500, all UHF. You need a rover to localize the job. If you are just using the unit for elevation you may not need a rover. digital UHF 410-470 modem It could have UHF and a Modem.. I have some used cables off a dozer if you are interested.
t_dirt is right. The MC-R3 receiver has a UHF radio built in and also celular modem capabilities should you want to run off a GPS network. (Meaning you wouldn't need a base). The MC-R3 complies with the current FCC regulations, so you don't need to worry. You still need to get licensed, though. t_dirt also sums up the base station options. Just be sure it has GLONASS capabilities. (The Russian satellite system) The 'rover' is the term for the roving GPS receiver, -the one used to survey the site and to do grade checking, stake outs, etc. You can technically get by without a rover, but someone needs to localize the job (correlate lat/long/elev to the job site's Northing, Easting and Elevation). You could hire someone to do this at the start of the job, but I really would recommend you have a rover if you are to use 3D machine control. You will need one sooner or later, -probably sooner. -------------------------------- Fundamentals of 3D Grade Control
Interference If i'm using 410-470 UHF,and i'm located in midwest where there is lots of farm machines that are now using autosteer and more going to RTK with the tile plows,how congested and how much interference will we run into down the road? Well it it get too congested and is other contractors seeing issues where they are located like bigger city populated areas? If so are they moving more away for UHF radio and too the 915 mhz? My work area will be more rural and can loacte base close too trencher so wouldn't be over a mile from my work. T-dirt need a contact number or email ,i left you a pm on site here.Thanks
It is impossible to predict if and how much interference you can expect to encounter in your area. Listening for radio activity using a hand held scanner will give you an idea of how crowded the band is right at this very moment, but can't predict what tomorrow will be like. If you are in a rural area, you will statistically be less likely to suffer interference, just because there are less people around as compared to an urban environment. All it takes is one transmitter, though... It is my experience that people in the US is generally migrating from UHF to 900MHZ. There is still a large number of people using UHF, though, and they will likely continue to do so if they don't experience any problems. 900MHz is not allowed in Europe, so users there are still deploying UHF solutions. It is my experience that the UHF band is much less crowded there due to historically strict restrictions of any form of radio broad cast, so it is less of a problem. They can't use 35W boosters like so many in the US are using. (A big contributor to the interference problems, by the way). Australia and New Zealand allow 900MHz (NZ has a slightly narrower band) but users there are reluctant to move from UHF because the better range they enjoy with this solution. Since these countries are not so crowded in the UHF spectrum as the US is, they have little incentive to switch. Requirements to transmit ever more data would be more likely to nudge them towards 900Mhz. However, in an area with good cell phone coverage, transmission via the internet and cellular modems would likely be preferred. I don't want to sound as if UHF is not a functioning solution in the US. -It is. If you are in a rural area, I would expect you have a decent change of being able to operate daily without significant problems. Remember, you can always change the channel. The trick is to know your equipment so you recognize when you are being 'walked on' and take appropriate action. --------------------------------------------------------- Learn about RTK networks for 3D machine control
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Hello, I have Trimble GCS900 3D for sale. If you interested to buy you can email me [email protected]
If you are set on Topcon then goodluck. If not and you would consider Trimble. I can help you with the Base Rover setup to working in about 4hrs with an office software class. YES it's that easy.
Hope you are happy with the topcon by now, the year you spent trying to get it figured out trimble would have had you up and running. Looked at both units before we purchased couldn't pass up the support offered from Ziegler, Altorfer and Trimble. We would be in the same boat as you if we chose Topcon, we don't have one person on the payroll just for our gps so we count on the support we get from trimble.
Where are you located?Did you try Star Equipment about the Topcon eguipment.Do you do tiling and dozing ?Thanks
Thought i would dig this one up again!!!!! Anyone using the new Topcon HiperII base and rovers.They are the Sokica??? recievers they was bought by Topcon.Any ifo weclomed.Thanks
I just bought topcon hiper II base & rover with tesla field controller . with pocket 3d/office 3d software . we like it alot .next step topcon 3dmc2 dozer control !
Thanks for the reply,was gone over the weekend or else i would have replied.I'm looking at the same setup.Got a few other questions.If you want you can pm me here on the website. Base and rover did you go 900 or 450? Have you used yet.Having a demo tomorrow if weather straightens up. My dealer is getting the qoute for the rest of my stuff i need for the machine contol system.I have everything except the valve and harness.He was down earlier last week and tested what i have and everything is unlocked.Lucked out there!