Hello all! I am faced with a dilemma. We have located two very nice dozers and are torn between the two of them. The first is a Cat D8h. It is in excellent condition, undercarriage looks new. Starts and runs great and will push anything in its path. The second is a TD15c. It has great undercarriage and low hours. It starts perfect and purrs like a kitten. Both cost the same, 20,000. The D8 will be delivered for no extra cost and we will be responsible for hauling the TD. Both dozers have minimum hydraulic leaks. The owner if the TD says that the steering clutches need adjustment. I am skeptical, because what he thinks a simple adjustment could fix could turn into new steering clutches, which I would rather not deal with. Fuel consumption will be the difference of night and day between the two, of that I am sure. Our intentions are to build about a 3 acre or larger lake, and then clear fence rows and some scattered timber. The dozer will never leave the ranch. We won't run either one wide open, nor will we run it everyday. Just occasionally when I get a chance probably. So what do you guys think? Thanks in advance!
Nobody has an opinion?
Go with the Cat parts will be alot easier to get.
Well, how about pictures, mainly cause we like them but also so we can see what we are talking about. Undercarriages, best to have them measured rather than just going by looks. Next item of question is the blades and your intended purpose, are they both bull blades or are they angle blades? Bull blades the corner bits sometimes angle in to make a semi or semi u shape, and the blade is alot taller, like 2x as high ans and angle blade. An angle blade can be set for a right, center or left discharge by changing where its pinned on at. They are also alot shorter, usually not more than 3 feet or so and are wide enought to cover the tracks at the angle position. Bull blades are for straight line bulk earth work, angle blades are better for almost everything else. While we are on blades, are both hydraulic tilt set ups or knuckle busters? Do either have rear attachments, rippers, winches, cable controll for scrapers... etc? Fuel consumption, a little komatsu d-21 will burn alot less fuel in an hour than that d8h does per hour, just the komatsu isn't big enought to smooth out the track marks of the d-8. Fuel consumption is relative to work done. Although the d-8 burns more per hour, it does more work, in a per yard alalysis, d-8 burns less per yard than the 15, it does this by moving dirt 2x as fast as the 15. Haul distance, if both machines are 2 hours away, the one is probably 500 cheaper with free shipping... Will you need to get permits to move the 15 home?
Cat
The 8 will push an amazing amount of dirt but if it was me I'd go with the td mostly because it'll be a better utility machine for ranch work than the 8. What 8h is it? 46a? Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
The TD is overpriced IMO, even more when you factor in transportation. How many hours on each dozer?
If it is the original International TD 15.Parts could be hard to find.Think I would go with the Cat D8.Parts availability and be easier to sell.Plus Cat parts are cheaper at least here they are.
Now that's just mean! seriously, I can't disagree w/ anything you said.
The cat has a semi u blade with the rock bits on the corners. The TD has just a straight blade. Both have hydraulic tilt and neither one has any rear attachment. The cat has hydraulic plugs for a scraper but that's it. I don't have pictures at this time... I believe I can get the TD hauled for around $200. The cat is a 36a series. 1972 model with no hour meter. My grandpa knows the two previous owners and says it has high hours but not outrageous. Not sure how many that means. The TD I do not know the year model. The hour meter shows 2700. But I highly doubt its accuracy since the dozer has already been re-painted. And it has the dresser stickers if that makes any difference
I agree with going Cat for the above reasons, you don't list the serial # but I assume it is mid to late 70's with direct start. If it is in as good of condition as you think it is a good deal @ $20K and will do alot of work for you.
I'm not a real expert on dozers by any means, but with experience in track loaders it would seem that you can never have all the dozer you need. Just when you think you've got the right sized dozer you run up against that ONE job where you could have used a bigger machine. Being that you are going to keep it on the farm, I would say if it's in good shape, then stick with the D8. Your not going to be hauling it all over the place so future trucking is not going to be much of an issue. just my two cents..........
My $.02 would be the Cat as well for the above mentioned reasons. Just make sure you have checked the machine over well that you decide to purchase. If you have a local heavy equipment mechanic available, have them check it over. Spend a little money up front to keep from $$ surprises in the future.
I had an earlier 36A4093 for several years, you might be frustrated tring to put it in gear when cold, if anything leaks on the clutch it ends up on the clutch brake. Keep the clutch dry, adjusted and oil changed they will run a long time. The weak part of the clutch is the pump idler gear which has a splash lubed brass bushing held on the shaft with a spring clip, if it comes off it can raise hell in the case. They are a good old horse, trans lasts forever.
It just seems that you cant go wrong with Cat.
The parts will be hard to find for the International. Get the Cat and save yourself a headache of two.
well the polls in this thread seem to point toward the CAT. It is a big, burly, beautiful machine im my opinion, and i think it will do everything we need and then some. of course it will be way overkill for clearing fence rows and scattered brush, but in the event that we do get to build our dream lake it will come in handy. the one and only worry of mine and my grandpas is that if we make one wrong move and get the big hoss in a wet spot and get it stuck... how big of a deal are we looking at here and how much of a worry is it? by the way, both are powershift and electric start.
A 36A is direct drive, clutch and gear trans unless somebody changed it to a power shift which is possible
Without actually seeing the machines, it is hard to make a recommendation on either dozer. Without recommending a specific machine, I would generally recommend a D8H over a TD15 for what you are describing. If you aren't having to move it down the highway from job to job, a D8 would be more efficient at digging stock ponds if you are planning something larger than about 1/3 surface acre. For clearing fencelines, it will work fine. If the brush is very large, it will work a little better. If you ever plan on grubbing large trees, running a rake or a root plow, a D8 would work very well for that. Not that the TD15 wouldn't, but those are usually fairly intensive projects, and the TD15 would be a good bit slower. If you are in small to medium brush (or low density), and you are doing mostly fencelines, fireguards, small ponds, and working on pasture roads, the size advantage of the D8 makes less difference.
Our intentions is to build one large lake. After having a few dozer operators come out ant take a look at the location, we were told that we could stand about 3 surface acres by moving about 3000 yards of dirt. After the lake, we have a few fence lines to clear and quite a bit of scattered brush and trees to remove.
If your getting stuck, don't back up to make sure!! there are a few threads here on HEF with good advice on what to do in case you get into a jam. With that said, I have a question for you....... what is the width of the tracks? are they LGP tracks by any chance on the D8?
No they aren't LGP. I really really wish they were. We've had our D6-8U stuck many times. But its so small our 270 horse 4wd tractor pulls it out easy. The D8 on the other hand wouldn't be so easy to "un-stick".
They are two different machines. Yes, the D8H will burn more fuel but it will also push more dirt. I think I agree with every other post on this thread except the LGP. I have never seen D8H LGP (post pics if you have them) and you would NEVER want to get that stuck. And something that hasn't been mentioned (unless I flipped through it too fast), resale.
Look at it this way, if you DO get it stuck the odds are good you wont be as far in as you would be with a TD15.. can't say about how deep ..... Cats tend to have better parts availability and resale value, but the TD15, especially if it is a C series, also has a good reputation. Unless you plan to work a lot of soft ground or a lot of tight spots, the D8 will get the job done. And think of the staus you will have, what with owning the biggest piece of yard art around for miles..... you might have problems with the neighbors wanting to borrow it, you know how it is with pickup trucks...... LOL! Alan
I agree with you and every one else except the prices if its a plain td15 it sounds high and I to wonder about the steering adjustment and now that dressta and komatsu have have split the sheets our dealer says there getting harder and harder as stock is used up and dressta isnt building parts stock up on older machines. the d8 undercarriage sounds good alot of people dont realize the expense of it on the big tracters and when they start pricing you here things like "but thats more than I gave for the whole machine" but still if it doesnt have the power shift trans. It doesnt have that good of a resale price and that price they are asking for it sounds high to.
Just to clarify, the D8 IS powershift and NOT LGP.
Just curious as to why you chose two different size machines entirely to compare to each other, your not even in the same league with the two as far as type of work and ability to be done. I'll admit if they are close in distance to be had but maybe the distance isn't the factor here maybe hunt up some same size machines, they are not the only two ever made and trucking isn't the biggest thing to worry about. I'd say for what your wanting to do figure out first what it is your wanting for the long term for the farm and go from there, a D6 size machine such as the 15 will do a lot for you over the lifetime of the machine. A D8 is somewhat overkill for you and what your wanting to do, maybe look newer and smaller, the 15 is hard to get parts for but a good machine in the long run, I wouldn't really recommend either machines, the D8 of its age is overpriced, same for the 15. Maybe a D6C instead or a D model, I prefer a komatsu lineup myself, an older D65 would also be a good fit for what your wanting to do. Also do you have tractors available for pulling a scraper? One machine alone isn't going to get every job done you need doing, also if you change your mind a D8 size machine is harder to sell or trade in for much value, the more popular sizes are a D5 or D6 size machines for better resale or trade in value's, just something to think about, but all areas of the country are different and I don't know your area at all. The older D8 should have a slow speed 6 cylinder engine in it, like a 342 or something like that, you'd want to make sure it had a spacer plate in the engine, also parts are higher priced than say in a 5 or 6 with a 3306 engine in it, something also to consider, an undercarriage is also cheaper on the 5 or 6 size machines, which is the higher wear item on the machines. I'm not sure how many hours per year your wanting to run this machine or how many years your planning on keeping it, but the 3306 is a plentiful engine made with lots of aftermarket parts and it was in many applications other than just dozers. If you go to a later model D7 say after the E model that used the same slow speed 4 banger engine to a later F or even a G those also ran a 3306 engine, way better all around machine over the D8 with the slow speed six cylinder thats been obsolete for over 40 years now. Just my opinion though, there are plenty out there to differ from me on these issues, just something to think about. If your wanting some machines to compare to ironplanet has plenty to choose from with inspection reports over the course of a year or so, also has previous sale prices to compare to, ritchie brothers has plenty for sale as well, as for trucking, about anyone can haul a 5 or 6 sized machine on a tandem or triple axle trailer, a 8 size machine is harder to get hauled by anyone and that means to a repair shop when you need to have it taken in for repairs as well.
d8 all the way. especially for that dirt work. i've got a low horse 46a. you would be surprised how little fuel it burns for its size. maybe 8 gallons per hour.
i believe that this one IS a 46a (sorry, my mistake) its the 270 horse engine... so it may use more fuel than yours... everyone has told us that the D8 is too big for us... exactly how hard is it to get parts for the TD?
You might look around a little more, I've found a few nice 6c's in the 16-20k range lately. I almost bought an 8h when I was looking for a cat and went with a 7 just because of the size of the 8. I don't know about your area but around here most field gates are about 12' so everytime you need to cross a fenceline with the 8 it would require a gate or fence modification. It needs 14' of space everytime it moves. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
D8 anytime
Really comes down to what you really need for the overall life of using a machine. I pretty much grew up on 15C's and for a general all purpose size they are about perfect. One with the cummins engine in it should be VERY reliable(own one that has over 20K on the engine). Best...and somtimes worse thing bout the 15's and dresser/IH dozers in general is for about 20 years there was very lil changed in the design of them. Some "mickey mouse" things on them my uncle always said. Like the steering system, way too many moving parts IMO. However, parts haven't been that hard to get a hold of, but NOT as easy as CAT parts are. Price wise, I've seen old dozers going for well over 25K on that size range, and more even on the CATS. Think alot depends on where you are at....and whom is buying them. Think it really comes down to personal pref and what has been done to major componets and what size you really need. A D8 is great....but if its too big for your needs then its not good. Same with the 15, too small, then it really doesn't make it a great deal either. Trbo
Both machines are good in the right situation as stated, I ran a 15c and it performed exceptionally well, I thought that the brake system was self adjusting on them so you may need to check that out if you have not already made a purchase. Cheers.
There is some adjustment to the brakes as well as the steering clutches and levers. Can be a PITA, just replaced the brake cable on ours last month and didn't take too much to reset the steering levers, etc but already had the seat and batteries out so that made it easier. Trbo
What about buying the 8 and using it for the pond and selling it for something smaller? Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
We're still debating. Lol. We like the TD because it has the DT466 engine which I think is an excellent engine. Good power and excellent fuel economy. The steering has just got me pretty well scared of it...
I had considered getting the D8 and trading for something smaller after buildin the lake. But I just wasn't sure how hard it would be to get rid of...
if your just thinking about getting the d-8 for the pond, rent a pan, pull it with that big ag tractor of yours, trade in that old d-6, get a newer 100hp-120hp dozer and be better all the way around. You should be able to get a deere 700h/j for d-6 + 20, maybe a 750c. Komatsu d-41 & 51, Cat d5h/m. That would be my solution. When I was runnin terex ts-14's daily, stripping 2k yards of topsoil in a day per machine was meeting production. We were moving the dirt 500 yards plus. In a slot dozing situation, moving dirt 200', a d7rII should be moving right about 400 cubic yard per hour, maying that pond a days job... according to cat's performance handbook. If you were talking about buying a machine for a months use, then you might be ahead buying that 8, but if your talking about using it for two or three days and selling it for something smaller, rent the pan, and buy the smaller outright.
I think stump jumper is right. The D8 is nice and big and would be so handy... But in al reality it is a little big for our operation... Besides, the lake can still easily be built with a D6 size machine, which is what we originally set out to find
The reason my grandpa wants the TD is because he used to have one and absolutely loved it. And he regrets selling it. Plus the one we're looking at really is nice.