Just bought this 2003 Cat00247ccml00519 Trying to troubleshoot my auxiliary hydraulics, Am I missing something here? The fuse box has 1-25 fuses, either the panel for 26-38 is missing or in another place. I have the push button joystick. The switch on the upper console seem to be the aux switch but no light. There is a large plug inside the console that is not connected to anything. I need more information before I pull the ECM and check voltage values, such as a diagram. I would like to start from the solenoids on the control valve/ distributor, but don’t know witch ones they are. Any help would be appreciated.
Do you have an electrical schematic.?
I don’t. I downloaded the operating manual. $600 for a service manual is a steep ask for a 20 year old unit. Nige I was hoping you would respond I had been following some threads before I joined the forum. I just didn’t find any solutions since I think some parts are missing.
Electrical schematic
Thanks. That’s a lot to digest. Can you tell from my photo. Is there supposed to be another board beside this fuse block? I mean it’s zip tied In place.
Cleaning Lower Machine Frame, part of the harness is buried under six inches of caked oil and mud. After opening the lower access panel and digging out by hand the most of it. What solvent can I use, and can I power wash it out. I understand the concept of not spraying seals and electronics. Is there something unseen, or is it just a no no? I already cleaned out the mess around the ECM’s, did that with a shop vac no water or cleaners. Heymccall, there is no Cover GP Fuse panel in the back of cab. There’s only one switch with a red lockout button on the LH upper control panel. I will pull it apart to decipher the wire color now I have the information. Thanks!
I dunno if this adds anything over and above what HMC has posted already but take a look at the illustration on Page 2 marked "Section G-G". That shows the fuse panel with a Relay Panel below it with at least 2 marked relays, one for the Park Brake, the other for the armrest. I wonder where they are on your machine.?
Just in case you missed this on the bottom RH corner of Page 8 on the schematic HMC posted. A useful guide to interpreting what the function of a wire on the machine is, rather than just what wire number/colour they are.
I don’t have that fuse panel in the upper cab. It is under the seat or at least half of it. The round socket is the Cat Data Link. It has been spliced. When I had the cab open, I think I remember a large 12+ pin socket not connected to anything, but capped off. Is that what they meant when they say wedged? Similarly there is a socket in the LH upper console not capped. First I assumed they are for options it’s not equipped with. My wire harness travels down the LH side. There are 5 relays and the main breaker reset in the engine compartment.
Any major electrical connectors that are not hooked up to anything could be for attachments/accessories. The pdf schematic is searchable. Take a look at a wire number at random from any of those connectors then search for it on the schematic. That should show you where it goes from/to and what its function is.
All the illustrations, etc that HMC & myself posted above are valid for all CML-prefix machines from the first built to the last. There were no changes throughout the whole production run of the model. Would you like to take any bets that your machine was SUPPOSED to look like all the illustrations above, but in the past someone got "creative" with wiring repairs.? The zip ties around the fuse panel would seem to suggest so. The relay panel in the engine compartment is different set of relays to those that should be next to the fuse panel in the cab. It should also have TWO circuit breakers not one, and the second one is for, guess what, the Auxiliary Hydraulics...............
Is there another identification number on the body? Perhaps this is not a CML. This is a Duplicate tag. The harness seems stock.
Jeez that's a curve ball from left field.......... The Duplicate S/N plate looks genuine enough to me but what do I know.? CML-prefix was the only original model of 247 produced until the 247B (MTL-prefix) came along. Can you see a Serial Number on the engine.? S/N should start with 3NW.
From a 247B
Yes that’s it. The ECM’s lie flat on the front compartment under the pedal. So… I guess the schematic is not correct either. Where is the engine # located? Is there a way to get the actual model and serial numbers?
On a CML-prefix 247 the Engine Number (3034 engine model) should be located as below. As I mentioned before the S/N should start with 3NW. On an MTL-prefix 247B the engine number location (3024C engine model) is not specified, at least there is no illustration of it. The engine S/N could start with either GGA or CYS depending on whether it is an early or late model machine.
No it's most likely not. And to complicate matters there is a break in 247B production which believe it or not does not coincide with the introduction of the 247B2 model.....!! Therefore there are two different electrical schematics depending on whether or not the machine is above or below the S/N break. Here's one........ And here's the other.........
A long shot I know but if you come up empty on the engine you could try peeling off the S/N plate. The S/N ought to be stamped on the frame right underneath it. Also see if you can spot where the 4 rivets that fixed the original plate were. That ought to give you some sort of orientation. If you find that someone has had a grinder at the area of the frame where the number should have been stamped then start suspecting the worst.
I found a welded tag in the engine compartment left side. CML00519 Perkins engine.
So the engine was built in 87 or if I can extrapolate from the list, 2008. 404C-22T. Rebuilt engine?
The welded tag looks somewhat "strange". Normally even if it was only the S/N (rather than the 17-digit PIN) stamped on it there would be an asterisk at each end just like the PIN in post #19 above. Also don't you think it's strange that the paint appears to have been touched up in that same area.? I don't know enough about Perkins data plates to comment on that. By Serial Number the machine is the earliest model of 247 (no model suffix) whereas the arrangement of the electrical system components based on the illustrations posted by HMC suggest that the machine is a later model 247B. My question is why would anyone wat to make a machine look older than it really was unless there was something to hide.?
Entirely possible. The "Perkapillar" engines in the early lines of Cat Compact Equipment were not known for reliability. Is the rest of the engine bare metal like the photo shows.?
From what I found out, Caterpillar bought Perkins in 97? The cross over number is a 3024C/T. It is all suspicious. I wonder if I need to take it to the Cat dealership an read the data link. As I understand it original hours and other things should be on it. I bought this from a Farm Equipment dealer that buys from auctions.
Yes it is.
Entirely possible. The "Perkapillar" engines in the early lines of Cat Compact Equipment were not necessarily known for reliability. Is the rest of the engine the same coloour as seen in the photo or Cat Yellow.? Sorry, double post for some reason.
Unless someone has changed ECMs there likely might be some information on them that could help to identify what exactly it is that you have. Even if someone went into the ECM and erased the machine Serial Number (quite possible - passwords are NOT required to do that) maybe Cat could identify it from the ECM Serial Number which CANNOT be changed or erased. It's in the permanent memory of the control and should also be on a plate on the outside along with the Part Number and possibly a Date or a Date Code. It would mean phone calls and/or emails because AFAIK there is no system to which dealers have access that contains that type of information. Somewhere in the factory build records there ought to be something relating to "ECM S/N "X" was installed into machine S/N "Y". Caveat - "ought to be" doesn't necessarily mean "will be" I would suggest that it might be a good idea at this point contact the place where you bought it and tell them what's come to light so far regarding the machine's possible murky past.
Follow up. I spoke with a Caterpillar Mechanic, showed him the photos and placement of the fuse block under the seat. He said that it is what it is supposed to be. It is a 247 A model. The engine is a replacement. He’s not sure about the tag welded in the engine compartment, but he thinks it’s okay. The fuel tank is probably rusting out and is part of the frame. That is why I’m getting so much fine debris in the filter, even though I drained the tank. The auxiliary hydraulics are not on a switch, they are active through the rocker switch on the joystick. The block that is missing beside the fuse block is most likely under the muck in the lower frame. If it was gone the unit would not run. So I have identified the components I need to check for the auxiliary hydraulics: solenoid A1 & A2, joystick buttons, relay to fuse. The one thing I found in the wiring schematic that I don’t know where to locate it is the Arc suppressor and the resistor.