So I've been operating heavy equipment for about 3 years now, mainly a backhoe, loader, and excavator. I've been working for this small company that uses motorgraders and dozers something new to me. The foreman knows my skill with the excavator and left me in charge of demolition of a street we have to take out. Anyways I've been running the motorgrader for awhile now already got familiar with the controls wasn't that hard I could rough grade with it but still need work for fine grading. Recently the Vice President of the company told me personally that he wants me to get more seat time on the motorgrader because from now on "You will be running all the heavy equipment for this crew, and I want you to get more experience with the blade." He said so the foreman let me run it for awhile, but then a week later the Forman started to get on it not giving me a chance to run the blade, and he would tell me to go do some detail work with the backhoe like back filling or some other stuff. Then time passed on he hasn't let me used the blade except for when it's convenient for him. For example if he has to go get material from somewhere, or when he leaves early he tells me to finish up the work he left behind and I only get 10 minutes to run the damn thing before I get off so there's really no point. He's also been getting on the excavator recently and just brushing me off. Sometimes I wonder what's his problem, and it really gets to me because I really want to learn how to operate this blade to the fullest and get all the experience that I can get. I know the Vice President told him to give me more operating time on the grader, so I don't know what's going on I would really want some feedback about this please.
Sounds like a classic case of somebody worried about loosing their job.. [foreman] OR your not that good at it.. lol Its sounds like THEY WANT YOU TO LEARN & he's keeping you from it.. Time to go over his head..?? OR just man-up & ask him what his problem is.. [foreman]
Outside looking in, When he runs equipment say the grader, how long does it take him to do something versus you. If he makes 3 passes and has something on grade can you do it in the same amount of time? If not i hate to say it but time is money in this business, and you may think (No offense) you got it down pat, but if it takes you 5 or 6 passes to accomplish the same then he needs to be doing it. I know we all need to learn, but in today's competitive market its tough to train a guy on your dime and then usually he leaves you for someone else for 25 cents more an hour.
I would say some face time would sort it all out.. some times others dont always see life from your point of view.
How was the foreman before the VP said he wants you to get more seat time on the grader? I don't think the VP would be saying this if he didn't have confidence in your abilities based on the machines you already run. If he thinks you're not a good enough operator he wouldn't be promoting you to the grader. I think the foreman has his panties in a bunch because either, 1. he is worried about you taking his job 2. he's jealous that the VP is (apparently to him) giving you preferential treatment. 3. he wants to be the go to guy instead of you. 4. he doesn't want you to become a better operator than him. I think you need to talk to the VP and in a polite way ask him what's up. Something like I want to spend more time on the grader but I keep getting told to do something else and the only time I get to run it is if the foreman has to leave the jobsite which doesn't give me much time to learn. If the VP is good, he'll get it sorted out for you. Maybe he could show up at the jobsite unexpected and question the foreman why he is running the grader when he was specifically told to give you more seat time. He could also show up just to see how you're doing on the grader. Or he could have a casual toolbox meeting with all the workers present and ask how you're coming along with running the grader. All you have to say is you haven't had much time in it and leave it at that. The VP can then be asking the foreman why you aren't running the grader. I'm in a similar situation at work. We have staggered shifts and I'm on latest one, 8:30-5:00. Two other guys are also supposed to be working this shift too but usually leave early leaving me alone. Our new boss is long gone before 4:30. One guy comes in early so figures he can leave early (usually 4:40 at the latest unless it's really busy) but that's his own thinking. I'd love to come in at 7 and leave at 3:30! A couple weeks ago the other late shift guy was off and this guy left at 4:00 leaving me alone for an hour. I talked with another coworker who questioned why someone else left their shift early (he worked the late shift a couple days) and he agrees I shouldn't say anything to the boss or other coworkers but said if someone ever complains why their inquiry wasn't answered all I have to do is say I was by myself. The boss or whoever can fill in the blanks and I'm not ratting anyone out.
Have been one of those left standing on my own. Tried telling the other party(s) they could be setting themselves up for success where one day a boss sat down the lane and awaited another crew group to leave. Handed them pink slips next day said he paid them for the time he expected them to work for the money not pander on his dime. He did hire one of the three back later when the guy basically apologized adding he wanted to work enjoyed working there. One of the better workers after that.
I get along with the guy but I'm not sure why he's still working. He is getting a pension after being an electrician with the city for 31 years. He's 67 and wants to work but if he lost his job wouldn't be as big a deal as if a younger guy lost their job. He seems worried about losing his job with all the cuts they've made but I think it wouldn't be a big deal. The group I'm in doesn't really need supervision but the new boss doesn't set a very good example. She leaves us alone and knows we do a good job but.... she sets her own time. She looks after a bunch of other things in addition to our group and apparently does a lot of work at home but her boss is another province so I think she takes full advantage. She has 2 young kids so it can't be easy but 98% of the time she's the last one in the office and the first one to leave. If I did that I wouldn't have a job. Everyone else is expected to be there for 8 1/2 hours (1/2 hour for lunch). She's there for about 7 1/2 on a good day but sometimes just up and leaves and rarely says goodbye or even good morning when she comes in. She's dozed off in her office several times and one guy said she doesn't have bags under her eyes, she has suitcases.
In this company we finish grade with the concrete forms all set. It's somewhere around 1000 feet of finish grading. The width is about 13 feet and 6 inches for Half the street so you could tell that you can't really give 3 passes with the grader in this company we finish grade with the concrete forms already set. The width of the forms are 13 feet and 6 inches.When the foreman uses the grader he does a lot of passes more than 5, due to material build up in the edges. We have to use a loader to remove the trail the grader leaves behind.
Every job is unique. Basically what I mean is if someone is running anything and the other guy is a lot slower, its costing the company money. A good company finds the talents of each person and tries to keep that person doing what they are good at most of the time. But every job is different and each day brings a new challenge or problem. On the job training is expensive and time consuming. But it's also the best way to learn, most of us have had it numerous times. I would approach the foreman and ask him questions and show interest in running the grader. Ask him if you can have some seat time. If he still shuts you down be straight up and tell him you were told to learn by the big boss, if he still wont comply go over his head. We all work as a team and its better for everyone. Hang in there, it'll get better.
From what I read the foreman knows he's supposed to give craydul more seat time in the grader. Everybody has to learn somewhere and it's not all about money. If it was the VP would have never suggested it. It's a bad idea to only have 1 person who knows how to run a specific piece of equipment. What if that person gets sick or is injured and the job has a deadline coming up. When things are on schedule, taking a little extra time to train someone on another piece of equipment will pay big dividends down the road and worth the extra time.
Dave I agree 100%. It is better for him to learn, but like you said "when things are on schedule" is the kicker. If they aren't slammed and have time by all means he should be on there learning. But if they are busy and behind, then production should be the goal, and feelings can get hurt during that time crunch, but for the company to survive and everybody to get that check on Friday, you need the best man for whatever task needed to complete a job profitably and on schedule. But like you said its not all about the money and every job has some slack in it, the foreman should let him in the grader and be happy he wants to learn. It will payoff down the road. Years ago when I learned to run a trackhoe, I would stay after everyone quit on my own time and run that thing till dark trying to get good enough to be the trackhoe guy. Same thing with a pan, I'd be out there burning fuel trying to get good enough to not look like some jack leg getting in the way. Craydul will they let you work after hours or Saturdays?
I think he doesn't want me to be a better operator than him, because I know I'm better than him with the excavator especially at fine grading. And I could learn quick, so I think he knows I would get eventually better than him on the grader. Another thing and this is funny to btw. There where some fridays when he would ask me to "let me help you out" and il let him barrow the machine right. So when the Vice President would show up to hand us our checks he would yes I would have to ask them about that, sounds like a good idea.
Work on improving on the machines you get to run. Getting better on the machines you get to run will benefit you much more than worrying about getting on a different one.
Learning to run other machines will benefit the company more and make you a more versatile employee. "There where some fridays when he would ask me to "let me help you out" and il let him barrow the machine right. So when the Vice President would show up to hand us our checks he would" I'm not sure I understand the above sentence... he would what? The foreman would hop in the machine and when the VP shows up with the checks , he'd get you to run it just to make it look like he is complying with the VP's request? If that's the case the foreman is being a dick and you really need to have a good 1 on 1 with the VP. The only time something like that might be justified is if the operator really is terrible and a relative/friend of someone higher up in the company who he thinks he's entitled and has unlimited job security. It would be a way for the VP to see for himself the guy shouldn't running that equipment or have the job for that matter. Or would he be running the machine trying to impress the VP with the work you did? Either way I think this foreman needs to get tuned in. I worked at a place where the foreman wanted me to get some experience pipe spooling ( welding up pressure pipes and fittings in a positioner). He knew I hadn't had my pressure ticket for too long but my welds were passing x-ray so he was happy with my work. Another guy with more experience working beside me called me aside and was complaining about my work. I was on night shift and asked him if the day shift foreman had said something and he said yes. I felt kind of bad but no one said anything to me. When I got a chance, I asked my foreman and he said nobody said anything to him and asked if my x-rays passed and I said yes. Then he said that's all that matters and you'll get faster the more you do and don't listen to that other guy. A couple month's later just before Christmas they were waiting for blueprints and had some layoffs. I wasn't laid off and got a Christmas bonus. This other guy who also tried (unsuccessfully) to switch employee numbers with me because mine ended in 77 (his birthday was 7 7) was laid off for about 3 weeks. When the laid off employee's were called back, they had a meeting with all the employee's and said unfortunately the people who were laid off will not be getting a Christmas bonus. The trouble maker had started several month's before I did and was more experienced but I was just thinking to my myself karma sucks!
Karma does work both ways, careful there!!
LOL Miller.. Karma is a funny mistress.. she'll circle back around & before ya know it.. Kick you night in the ruts.. lol
It does but in that case I was just laughing to myself. That same trouble maker wore a $1200 welding helmet (expensive in 1997) with 3 backpack filters on it. He wanted the company to pay for the filter cartridges at $25 a pop. In between welding or when he was on a break, he'd light up a smoke! Oh but these are the lowest tar and nicotine cigarettes you can get. Apparently he was allergic to seafood so didn't want anybody to have any kind of fish in the lunchroom. He had a ghetto blaster in a special wood box he made with cooling fans and had it blaring so loud you couldn't even talk to anyone within about 20'. The foreman finally told him he could listen to music but had to turn it down so it's not so annoying to everyone else. I'm thinking he may have been real close to being fired. The reason he was trying to get me in trouble was because someone he had worked with before was recently hired and he wanted him to do the pipe spooling instead.
Takes all kinds, but remember that Karma is royal flightly Biotch, has her way where one day your eating pie the next your cleaning the pans.
Sorry about that I accidentally sent that reply without finishing it. You pretty much guessed it right there he would hop on the machine to "help me out" to make it look like my work is his, so as soon as the VP sees him on the machine. He gets his check, hands me back the machine and takes off, and I don't see him till noon. I suspect his scared to lose his job even though his the foreman not the crew operator.
Yeah, you need to "casually" tell the VP that the work he saw is what you did not the foreman. Then you can tell the VP what's actually going on. If I was the VP he'd get demoted with a pay cut to boot. You'd rather be an operator than the foreman, OK, we'll make that happen. Oh by the way, we'll adjust your salary accordingly so you'll be getting 15-20% less. If he gives any grief, we can always get another foreman. The guys being a disrespectful jerk to you and the VP and should be worried about his job.
Hey Craydul, I reckon one of the best tools anyone has is communication. Be frank with the guy about the way you feel. I'm assuming you have a detailed time sheet? if not i would keep a record of the jobs and time you spend on the machines, Especially if you feel like he's taking credit for your work.. Its possible he may just feel threatened by the way the boss man put you on the machine? Have had my fair share of nobs that try undermine my progression for whatever reason they had. but i did my job, worked had and showed my worth, didn't keep quiet and made the calls that needed making. made management soon after i qualified (which was also a learn as you go affair), went on n up from there. Learned keeping records was VERY important when **** hit the fan and fingers started flying.. I don't much care for politics in any form and would have been happy with a wrench, but the pay was good as was the experience. still swung the spanner, but also had to do all the other fun stuff too. I digress.. Training is costly, But its the smarter play in the longer run. It's definitely a disaster having key members of the team go off and leave the job hanging. If you're slow, you'll get faster, the experience will take care of that. The foreman is supposed to be there to get the best/make the best out of the players he has. He's just shooting himself in the foot cos that karma is a darling.. He should be helping you get the job done. not doing it for you. If for whatever reason he thinks you're not up to it, then he should tell you. Communicate, get it out in the open. Make your presence known.. Going above someone without due cause is a sure way to make an enemy btw.. Oh, and do try and handle it diplomatically. you just need to be to the point and cool headed. Nobody got anywhere by sitting on the bench. Good luck man.
If someone hopping in a machine trying to take credit for your work (on payday too) isn't enough reason to go over their head, I don't know what is, especially when it's the foreman who was told to give you more time on the machine. You can try talk to the foreman first but from what I'm reading he could care less. He was told to give you more time and he isn't. Instead he's trying to take credit for your work. Maybe a newbie who just started on the job would put up with this but someone who's obviously proven themselves shouldn't have to. I agree with what a friend of mine said awhile ago that he'd put up with a lot more when he was younger than he does now. I think it's from seeing too many back stabbers and two faced idiots along the way.
Thank you very much for that. Also to everyone on this thread i cant thank you enough for the positivity you guys have given me i truly appreciate it.
Next time the boss brings the checks, walk over to him and say, "How does my excavation work that I did today look? Where do I need improvement? I must not be doing it right because the foreman throws me out to protect me just before you get here each week".
Or when the foreman says let me help you out just say thanks, you already did.
THATS A GOOD ONE, They're BOTH GOOD..