Hello everyone, I have a 80ac woodlot/20 ac pasture. I need a dozer for roads, pulling out wood, pushing stumps, etc. I have never owned/used a dozer, but have used tractors/skidsteers. I have decide on either a D4 or a Case 350 (big enough to do the work but small enough to take it easy on my land). I found a 1967 D4 12000 hrs. Current owner says it runs well, he changed the sprockets, and the only issues is that it pulls to the left going uphill (steering cluth?). Below are pics. If anyone can give me some advise or if anything can be determined from the pictures, I would really appreciated as the dozer is 5 hours from my house. The current owner wants $4000 Thanks in advance.
The winch is worth 4000 looks good.
thanks barry
Quite the difference in size between a 350 and D4. The D4 pictured might be rather difficult to operate for someone not used to dozing. The price is low enough if the dozer works though. I would be very hesitant to buy something as old as it unless I had a lot of experience with repairing issues that dozers have. You could end up with a lawn ornament.
thanks furakawaMatt unfortunately it seems these two models were the most popular around herre before jumping into a d8... as my budget is $6000 i have to be in an old dozer - $4000 for dozer, $2000 for repairs?, then I borrow $8 for the twelve pack. thanks again
I have to agree with FurakawaMatt, this might end up being a lawn ornament. You wrote he said it pulls to the left going up hill, what does it do with a load? 1967 is over 40yrs old, do you know where to get parts? Do you have the tools to get the job dune when needed{fixing}? Track machines will need mechanical work sooner or later, something that is 40+yrs may need lots of work???? I'd consider the 5hr{1 way} ride, how well you might know this person, amount of money, what can't be seen. If you have a friend that knows about dozers {mechanical and operation} maybe he/she would be willing to go with you to take a look?
thanks maddog I'm convinced...looks like I'm taking a ride tomorrow. I am a good carpenter and electrician, fixing bulldozers - nothing. Luckily there are 3 good diesel/heavy equipment mechanics in my little town. I figure if I get 100 hours of work from this machine, my fields can become profitable and instead of paying someone $100-$120/hr I will have spent $40 and hour. Anything else is gravy and logging. I saw another post about what to look for when buying a dozer and have printed it out. Anything in the pictures I post that looks bad????
Nothing obvious that I can see from the pictures. It looks fairly good. It has not been sitting in a field with trees growing through it. It just may be something you can get your money back out of from operation. Though a good dozer operator on a modern machine would accomplished much more work per hour. Thus the 120/hr might be more economical for you. Plus you are not paying for his repairs. Even if you buy the dozer for odd jobs you still might consider hiring out the bigger job for that reason.
moving stumps (vs brush) with a d4 takes a little more work that you might suppose. Also...If you havn't owned tracks before you'll be in for some education....your first lesson might be: ''I should've hired it done"" ha ha! wait till you throw a track in waist deep mud and have to get it back on using the machine and a handyman jack! but we all learn; you have to settle this ''pulling to the left'' issue. see if you can push a load with that left track vs the right track. The owner may not like you trying to turn with a load but you have to know whether or not those clutches are well. if not, you can mabey drop the price $500, also...sometimes those clutches/brakes work well cold but after an hour of work they start mis-behaving.
Weeeeellllllllllll it needs paint but before that ya need to get rid of all the dents and dings :roll Just kidding it's hard to tell what a machine may need just from pictures. I also can't see the sprockets all that well they seem worn{??}it may just be my eyes. I also agree with the others you may end up wasting $4,000.00 and not be able to do your 100hrs of work, then you'll still have the expense of hiring another dozer. You'll also find out slipping a track can be a real joy. I'm not trying to sway you away from getting a machine just trying to give you a heads up, these things can make or break the bank REAL FAST. When running they are great when down they are expensive and sometimes very stressfull.
thanks everyone ... I appreciate all of the information
I think you can do better on ..... http://www.proxibid.com/ Watch the auctions, Alot of machines going for 4 ,000 are better than that old cat.
Firstly,that D4 will eat up a Case 350 for breakfast. Secondly,those D4s sell in Australia for $15-22 K . I think they had a reputation for reliability.You don't want anything smaller than the D4,for your work. Not sure if the D4 has wet steering. I think the later ones did. Get the main components checked over (undercarriage,engine,trans) & give her a good workout for 15 minutes.It pays to take a knowledgable mechanic along. You might also consider pricing any undercarriage or parts that need replacing,before purchase. For more accurate info,visit ACMOC or other Cat sites. I'd buy the D4 in a heartbeat for $4K.Good luck. Jim
I would not mind a little D4D for a toy here. I believe this one is probably direct drive rather than power shift. If it is, get ready for a workout when running it with the hand clutch, shuttle shift and gear box lever.
Aside from that beat up ROPS, it looks pretty good from what I can see. If it is truly a 1967 model it will be a D4D 78A series with D330 engine & oil clutch. Does seem like it has steering clutch issues. In any event the price is right when including the Hyster D4E winch. The D330 is not one of Cat's better engines but lots of them were made and parts are plentiful. See if you can get the actual model and serial number to know for sure, there were a ton of D4D models produced and it's easy for folks to get confused identifying them.
The first Dozer I ran in the bush was a lil d4d like that without the dings in 1978,it looks experienced for sure.But because of the dings,I would ask about it's work history as it looks like it was in some good size rock,most bush only cats dont get beat up that bad cosmetically.The sprockets look worn to me from the pictures as they appear to be rounded off.How's the rails look?
.....i had a low cost D4 bought a while back looked great and ran great.......hired a guy to move it and he decided to stop by his house on the way and push a tree over....long story short .....its still sitting there by the tree with a final drive out and yes it is HIS now....he said the estimate for the final drive work was 15k.....point being he was trying to do a D8 job with a D4 ....just understand a D4 will do a good job with brush and stuff but pushing stumps it will need some help...
Ttazzman; do you think it may of had some issue's or did the delivery driver just not know how to run the machine? Heck folks got rid of stumps 100's of years ago with no dozer, I'd imagine if you went back in time and showed up with a 4WD compact tractor with FEl they'd be tickled pink{and in shock}
Downeast, Have you considered renting a machine? A JD 450J rents from sunbelt in Bangor for $3500 a month. Thats nominally 120hrs of use. Sure its money down the drain, but also not nearly the risk. If you buy you have the opportunity to have virtually no operating cost after you sell the machine, however you also take the risk that you will have a lawn ornament that will cost you several times how much you paid for the machine to fix. Based on what you've said It sounds to me like an excavator might be more suited to your needs, though I've always been preferential to excavators.
Don't know. I myself am in the market for a dozer. D2 to D4 sized for the farm, same deal, working in the woods. Daughters fater in law got a cable lift D6 a few years ago to clear fence lines. Paid far less for it than the cost of hiring the work done plus he still has it to use as needed. So far he got it stuck once and ran a branch into the radiator (was able to get a used one reasonable). I just got a TLB for the farm. I can see to where it's going to be very useful. I've dug a couple of stumps out and burried the reamins of a cow we just butchered with it. I also used it to clean up the manuse/hay mess where we feed in the winter. I also have sevearl area farmers who will pay 50-55 and hour for me to dig rocks out of fields. I think I can get by with a smaller dozer because I have the hoe to get the stumps out. The dozer would be used for clearing brash and light dirt work, not pushing over trees. Great post and great advice! Rick
Im guessin the delivery driver didnt know how to run the machine (what did he care it wasnt his machine at the time).........im sure he tackled something larger than the machine was capable of and pushed things a bit to hard.....i since bought a D4H xl sieries 3 and tried tackling some large stumps (24"ish)with it and ended up using a backhoe to dig around them before pushing them i am looking around for a trackloader to do the stump type work now
Ttazzman; I agree an excavator for stump removal {IMO} is better. Of course if a person has both then they get the best of both worlds.
Downeast, I think you probably need to sit yourself down and ask these questions of yourself first before jumping: 1. Do I like fixing older iron? 2. Do I need the job done yesterday or can I do it at my own pace? 3. Do I like the idea of running my own iron and learning "how to do it"? 4. Do I have the patience for all this learning, both on the "fixit" side as well as on the "running it" side? There are lots of good suggestions on this thread, all the way from renting new, late model stuff that will get you the job done with no fixits, to getting right into the wrenches! Personally, I like the older iron and confess I have a 1969 D4D with a powershift. I bought it when I knew the square root of zero about fixing machines. Mine needed loads of work and I paid a heck of a lot more than $4K! I like the learning and trying to work up my operating skill level but my 200 acres of stump ranch doesn't have to be finished up by next Tuesday, either!! I'm a little hesitant about a clutch machine--powershift is so much more usable when you are on a roll and want to make dirt fly. But the old timers made the gearjammers work--they must have had 8 arms at times!! That being said, the price is right. You could probably sell the winch for at least half the purchase price of the machine if everything went sideways on you. The gearjammer transmission will likely have less to go wrong than a powershift; the steering clutches are dry and pretty easy to fix, other than needing a porta-power tool to pull and reseat the tapered splines. These can usually be rented with a little luck. As others have said, find out what is wrong with the machine with the tracking to one side under load. Probably needs some repairs on a clutch...although, my 1952 D8 tracks to one side because somebody changed a final drive and put the wrong ratio in one side!! I'm not sure the D4D had different final drive gears available for this kind of snafu to happen. The canopy is fugly! Keep in mind it ain't a rops canopy, it'll keep rose petals from wafting down your neck is about all. But I'm sure you will be far more happy with this machine than a tinker-toy 350, especially if you are looking at woodlot work. Like someone else said, I'd do it in a heartbeat! Best of luck, Jon.
I think it is a great buy, especially getting a Hyster winch to boot. Cat dozer are good dozer.
I purchased a D4D (78Axxxx) about a year ago, direct drive, angle blade & put about 80 hrs on it since the purchase. Knock on wood, so far just had to replace some blade linkage & re-line the right side (dry) brake, repair seals on the main clutch, fix some leaks (all minor $'s)& it has worked out fine. What the others have said about larger repairs being expensive is true & could happen at any time! A roll of the dice I guess.
The thread is a couple years old but the subject--D4D's--are timeless!! Metalman, you have a real pretty 78A there. It just looks kinda nude without anything on top! Not real good when working tall trees. My D4D is a 1969 83J powershift machine. I've been taking my time getting it back together since I lucked onto a 1972+/- D6D. The powershift transmission I have is an orphan design with a poor output bevel gear setup. I just re-read the posts in this thread and was kind of surprised at all the concern about taking down big trees with a D4. And worry about taking out final drives! A machine in decent shape should be able to spin the tracks when up against something solid without worry. And taking down a big tree, well, maybe it isn't done with one push, but it sure can be done with a little patience! Jon.
Actually I just purchased a parts machine, also a D4D (not running) with a canopy & winch on it & plan to mount both on mine. I agree, one should be able to come up against something that doesn't give with a dozer & spin the tracks without doing damage, if things are in good shape.
Metalman, what kind of transmission does it have? If it has a powershift, might you be willing to sell the torque and transmission? Jon.
Jon, it is actually a manual, the same as what I have now, otherwise that would have worked for me.