i have heard that case is going to be releasing some new skid steers this fall/winter, including something like a 440 with vertical lift. does anyone know when cat is going to offer the c series for the whole linup? or bobcat the m series on the smaller skids? does anyone have experience with case iso pilot controls or bobcat sjc controls?
CASE is releasing a new from the ground up machine. I have seen some pictures but I don't know any specifics. CAT from what I was told (for what it is worth) is not going to be extending the C series to the smaller machines. The CASE pilots are nice, very precise and smoother than CATs pilots (in there B series machines). I like them, but after 13 years of using the excavator style controls (as in motion of the joystick) going back to the 1800 style movement on the joystick is a little different for me and harder to get used to than I would have thought. I hope they keep the receipe for the 440 in the new series. The power and the size of that machine is excellent. The 440 is my favorite CASE skid steer.
that is disappointing cat is not extending the c series lineup, it makes me feel like they are giving up. either that or realizing what the had was better than the new ones. i believe case and new holland skid steers are made in the same plant, i have also heard that the new case skids are basically going to be a new holland. i sure hope not. my concern with pilot controls is i don't think they are as fast or accurate as hand foot controls. i think for digging in the dirt they would be fine but for stacking bales in close quarters i feel like they would not be as maneuverable as having 2 sticks or provide the sudden jerk necessary to pull the bale spear out of the bale.
I've jabbered about the 440 getting a vertical lift, hope I get to be in the commercial when it comes out(like the Microsoft 7 commercials...) :tong I have wanted to try the Case with Cat style pilots but haven't seen one around yet, thought it would be interesting but I prefer how they are now. I've heard all kinds of stuff on the new Case/New Holland skids but will have to wait until they come out. I have a 440S3 and honestly don't know how much they need to change as they are so close to perfect now.
The NH and CASE are made in the same Witchita plant. While they share some of the same components they are not the same machine. The new ones I am told are different as well, guess we will see. The machines really appeal to different types buyers so I doubt they would try and combine into one, although skid steers and CTL's are selling at about 20% of what they were at their peak of 3-4 years ago. On the feel, speed and accuracy. Hand and feet controls which would be a BC or NH are not any faster than a servo controlled CASE hand control machine. However there is a slight hesitation when going forward and then pulling back hard to go into reverse with the pilots. The best way of course is to demo and see what fits with what your looking for.
Speaking of new... (and I know virtually nothing about skid steers)...., but I have a friend of mine's family has one of the local Kubota dealerships, and he was telling me how nice the new Kubota skid steers are... :beatsme I did look it up at kubota.com... and they do exist.
Cat is coming out with three small frame ctls redesigns i guess 259b3 with the steel undercarriage is the first
does a skid steer with pilot controls have to be running over 3/4 throttle for the pilots to work right? how do they work in the cold?? will they last 10,000 hours without problems?
Apparently Case has made huge upgrades in the rider comfort area and controls of the skiddies they are releasing, or so I have read....Maybe their new Skidsteers are equiped with independent suspension and speed sensitive steering ....hahaha seriously though what I did read was very positive.
The CASE machines with pilots will run at half throttle, others likely do as well. As far as the 10K hours without problems? I doubt any component on a skid steer can be garranteed to last that long.
i think our bobcat s185 has spoiled me as far as reliability goes. we have had no major problems with it, it has 7500 hours on it, and still runs and drives like a new one; it gets little attention and is used hard. i would probably be stupid to switch to anything else, it is just hell to drive, and the price on them is dirt cheap for a like new used machine in comparison. for the record, jcb has a lifetime warranty on their skid steer loader arm. it looks like jcb makes a sweet ride, but much like john deere and cat, the physical size of their skids are just way too long when compared to similar lift capacities of case, bobcat, and new holland skids. the principle behind a skid steer is to have a small, compact, maneuverable machine; i do not like how these companies seem to be sacrificing size for comfort. personally, i have no use for a skid steer more than 100 inches long. i also commend jcb for designing their own relatively simple, fuel efficeient, and powerful diesel engine that does not need scr (urea exhaust injection), when everyone else is just bowing down... except honda because they have some kinda system where their diesel engines make their own urea. i think we should be more concerned about the environment in other parts of the world than going way beyond what the laws of diminishing returns would say about our epa regulations.
as answers to your earlyer post, cats is making the smaller skidsteers in the b3 series, i ran one at a show the other week and was very impressed (just as good if not better than the C series). the pilot contols on the cats and the newer bc (200 r just as fast as your hand foot contols, from what i can tell. also i have a cat 297c and the pilot contols work fine at lower throttle unless ur idling, then there pretty slow, as far as running in the cold with them ive had no problems, last winter i was cutting trees when it was -20 id let the machine "warm up" for about 10 minutes n they worked great. if you got a s185 i dont think id look for anything else we have had one for a year now( had to ditch the old 773 after the second engine blew) and its been an awesome machine for the price !
JCB basically copied the Perkins engines they were using and changed a few things like the starter location.
Your 297C is e/h control, not pilot. The question on cold conditions was likely directed to the oil controlled pilot system where running thick cold oil through microlines can be an issue.
i cant speak for the jcb skid steer engines... but i know they did a lot of work and designed their new tractor engines from the ground up. john deere and jcb are the only farm tractor companies not using urea. out of curiosity, how do electric controls on a skid steer work...? surely it has to be more sophisticated than just moving standard controls with electric motors, especially on a bobcat where the controls take a lot of force to move.
Being a Case IH dealer and a JCB dealer, I can shed a little light on the emissions rumors that are out there.... You are correct in that niether JCB or Deere are using urea (SCR technology). However, the major difference in that statement is that JCB has develped fuel combustion technology for their Dieselmax engine (which was not simply a copy of Perkins) that does not require ANY pre or after-treatment. Don't ask me how, but I do know that they invested nearly 100 million in the research and development and thought that I heard they teamed up with Ricarro (sp?), but don't quote me on that. Deere, however, has chosen to use cooled EGR, which as anyone who is familiar with emissions technology knows, does not bode well for fuel efficiency. I am more than willing to admit that even on our red tractors for the last 10 years or so, even though the manufacturers CLAIM that "Tier blah, blah, blah engines are more fuel efficient by blah, blah, blah"....it was a load of crap. Every Tier up to Tier III has choked down engines and increased the size of the cooling packs on the engines. Cooled EGR will have the same effect gonig to Tier 4a. Eventually, even Deere will have to use SCR technology to meet Tier 4b, according to industry experts (of which I am not, nor do I claim to be). SCR technology allows for the combustion temps to be raised (not to be confused with overall engine and intake temps) to burn off the PM (particulate matter) and then utilizes Diesel Exhaust Fuid (~32% Purified Liquid Urea + ~68% deionized water) to react with the NoX to produce water vapor. What all this jargon boils down to is that the engine can be tuned to produce efficent power and is not being used to control emissions. There is a bit more two it than what I have posted, and I'm sure others can add to what I have said, but that is the gist of it. To respond to the initial question....the new Case (and I assume NH) skids will be introduced in Q1 of 2011 with production to begin in Feb.
i heard jcb teamed up with ricarro as well...which is awesome. im pretty sure the dieselmax uses cooled egr tho. it does not need a particulate filter, or urea. it also has a variable geometry turbo, and claims best fuel efficiency.
Dave, here is some Case/NH stuff. They are way different, some good stuff and some stuff I am not happy about... It seems I can't get it to paste here and don't want to send folks to another forum, maybe someone else can post them?
I tried to post it here but no luck. They don't allow enough space on this forum. Well it was not exactly what I was hoping to see in the new machines, smaller displacement engines on the downside, very high breakout on the upside guess we will see as the info continues to leak out. They both (NH/CASE) share a common platform. Actually it appears to be identical machines with different paint schemes.